Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Old School Loads for the .270 WCF

Great thread with a lot of great classic loads.

However, it’s 2020 and RL 26 really wakes up the old 270 Win...
Here’s my recent experience working up loads for 5 different guns, with over 1000 rds of development.
3300 fps+ with the 129/130’s (LRX, NBT, SST, NPT, and others convention C&C from Speer, Hornady, and Sierra)
3100-3150 fps with the 145/150’s (ELD-X, Fusion, NPT, SST, etc)
No pressure signs at those velocities, as I worked 5 shot groups up in 0.2 gr increments until I saw the first sign of pressure.
20” and 22” barrels (I got 3150 fps out of my BAR 20” with 145 ELD-X)
Hornady and Winchester (pre-1995) brass
80F
Velocities confirmed with a magnetospeed and in very good alignment with Quickload.
I could always find a high velocity combination that shot under 3/4” at 100 yds.

I still load a lot of H4831SC for my 270’s, but find it beats up brass in my gas guns even at moderate charge weights, so I found it necessary to load them light (<57 gr H4831SC with 130s) or change to faster burning H4350.

For that reason, I’m now almost exclusively loading RL26 in those autos, and have solved this issue. RL26 acts like a slow burning powder from a velocity standpoint, but cycles like a fast burning powder. Go figure.

In summary, RL26 gives 150-200 fps improvement over H4831SC for the same bullet in my bolt guns. For my 2 gas guns (BAR and 7400), I’m getting 400 fps faster due to H4831SC cycling issues limiting the H4831SC max charge.
It really shines in the heavy weight class (145/150).
Maintains high velocity even in short barreled sportsters
With SDs typically <12
And good accuracy

Get some RL26 and see for yourself. But be careful, as the speed is addictive and it’s not always good to push a cup and core bullet over 3000 fps impact velocity.

Stammster, would you care to share your 130g loads? I’m a fan of RL26 in a 7STW and 270wsm, but haven’t played around with it in the ol 270. Presently loading H4831 with 130 Interlocs/Partitions At 3100fps in a Tikka.

As requested for 130gr. I’ve truncated a lot of the data in order to show what I feel is the most relevant load data instead of the complete set.

270 Win
BAR MK2 20” bbl with 3-9X Leupold VX Freedom CDS
Chamber length 0.003 over SAAMI min
130 SST Superformance Factory 3030 fps avg
130 SST 60gr H4831SC Rem brass COAL 3.23” 2990 fps avg. No signs pressure, but I stopped load development here due to damage case rims due - semi-auto cycle problems. I’ve since backed off to 58 gr at 2800 fps for best group size while saving my brass.
130 SST 60gr RL26 Hornady brass COAL 3.23” 3024 fps avg
130 SST 61gr RL26 Hornady brass COAL 3.23” 3126 fps avg
130 SST 63.5gr RL26 Hornady brass COAL 3.23” 3220 fps avg
130 SST 63.8gr RL26 Hornady brass COAL 3.23” 3245 fps avg - slight pressure signs - DO NOT LOAD
130 NBT 60gr H4831SC Fed brass COAL 3.32” 2951 fps. No signs pressure, but same case rim damage
130 NBT 60gr H4831SC Hornady brass COAL 3.32” 2920 fps avg. No signs pressure, same case rim damage.
130 Sierra 1830- very similar to NPT
130 Speer 1458 - very similar to NPT, but a 30 fps faster.

This gun is currently getting a work up with H4350 and IMR-4064, as I shoot it only in Texas, 50-150 yds, for hogs and pigs only. No point wasting RL26, and the SSTs and NBTs seem to perform better with < 3000 fps impact velocity. It shoot 0.7 MOA at best with lots of loads and the worst it ever does is 2 MOA.


Win M70 pre-64 FWT (1953)
22” bbl
Chamber length also 0.003” over SAAMI min
130 SST 60gr H4831SC Rem brass COAL 3.23” 3060 fps avg
No signs pressure. Max not found. This is a 0.5 MOA load.
130 NBT 60gr H4831SC Fed brass COAL 3.32” 3013 fps avg
129 LRX 60gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3120 fps avg
129 LRX 62gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3250 fps avg
129 LRX 63.1gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3301 fps avg. Very slight flattened primer. No extra bolt lift. This is a 0.060” jump.
129 LRX 63.3gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3318 fps.
Slightly flattened primer. Slight bolt lift. DO NOT LOAD.
I had to load hot, as the other node was only at 60 gr and group sizes opened up at 61 and 62 gr, but kept shrinking as I increased from there.
130 NPT, 62.7gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3221 fps avg Very slight flattened primer. No extra bolt lift.
130 NPT 62.9gr RL26 Win brass COAL 3.32” 3245 fps avg. slight bolt lift. DO NOT LOAD.

This is my favorite 270 Win. It wears a B&L Balvar 8A, and is a classic. The 129 LRX shoot lights out at sub 0.6 MOA at 3300 fps, and will be my Western US pronghorn setup. Currently sighted in 3” high at 100 yds and is a dead hold to 375 yds. 130 NPT shoots 0.8 MOA, as a backup/deer load.

I won’t share my Rem 7400 info, as that chamber is 0.002” under SAAMI max chamber length. It also doesn’t cycle well with RL26 above 61gr or H4831SC above 58 gr. Due to the large chamber volumes, I’m also not getting anywhere near the above velocities per charge weights. It usually takes 0.5-0.7 grains more. It is a shooter though, as long as I can keep the forearm screw tight. Otherwise POI varies 10” vertically. This gun also hangs up feeding any bullet with an exposed lead tip.

My new Kimber 84L with Leupold 4.5-14X is right at SAAMI min chamber specs, and most of what I’ve loaded up is 145/150 class. For the 130’s I’ve shot, I’ve only shot factory loads. It has a 24” bbl. 145 ELD-X and 150 Partitions are the focus, as 500-600 yd elk load. Lots of promise so far.

My other M70 pre-64 FWT is a 1962 and is 0.005” over SAAMI min chamber, and shoots the same loads as my other M70. However it is approx 10-15 fps slower given the same load. It also doesn’t shoot as tight for some reason. The throat is slightly longer also, which might be the issue. For most of the .277 bullets, mag well length is my limiting factor and and I’m not able to get closer than 0.050-0.060” to the lands. This gun does like factory Hornady American whitetail 130’s better than any handload I ever fed it. This will be my son’s whitetail rifle when he gets a little older, and wears a 1989’s gloss VX2 3-9. He’s not getting the other M70 270 FWT until I die.


General observations / comments (based on more data than listed above)
1.) For same charge weight and bullet type, I found brass mfg makes a difference due to case capacity. Slowest to fastest in my 270 Win experience = Winchester, Hornady, Federal, Remington. Therefore, I found that a load that is at max in Winchester brass, will almost certainly be over max with Remington brass.
2.) I found that the deeper I seated the bullet, the higher the pressures and velocities you will get, and visa versa. Not all bullets were the same length of the same weight. Therefore, don’t just just take COAL measurements.
3.). Bullet type / mfg also effects pressure / velocity, mostly due to bearing surface. The LRX is a perfect example, as the relief grooves seem to lower the pressures vs other bullets.
4.). Chamber size is also critical. A chamber at SAAMI min size will give higher pressures and velocity than those reamed longer, for the exact same combination of components.
5.). I used the same lots of powder (respectively per mfg) in each test. Your charge weights results to achieve the same velocities will likely differ.
6.). Shorter barrels generate less velocity and pressures for the same load. Therefore the loads at max in a 20” bbl will likely be over max in longer barrels.
7.). I try to jump all bullets 0.010” to start, never jammed, but I do seat bullets with a cannelure at the case mouth for esthetics and leave them there if they shoot well. Then fine tune from there. For most of these 270’s, mag well length is the issue and many start at 0.030”+.
8.) I don’t crimp.
9.) Velocities and group sizes usually with 5 shots.


Additional:
1.) All charges were thrown with a RCBS Charge Master and double checked with a secondary electronic scale with 0.01gr resolution.
2.) Velocities recorded by Magnetospeed Sportster
3.) Temp 65-80F for all data collected. Use caution if above these temperatures, as a load that is at max here, will certainly be above max at higher temps.
4. I generally use Rem 9-1/2 primers in my Rem brass, and WLR in all the rest. My lots give similar velocities between the two. CCI gave about 15-20 fps slower. I have not used them with RL26 though.
5.) To keep things simpler in the future, my Remington brass is going to stay with the 7400. The BAR is getting the Hornady brass, and the Winchester’s and Kimber is getting the Winchester brass. I’ve also weight sorted it all, especially the Winchester where I know I’m going to be pushing the enveloped. Federal brass all went to a buddy of mine. I’m still waiting on Starline to send me some sample brass in 270 Win.

Now that the temps have dropped here in Texas, I’m going to reshoot some 130 Partitions and work up some cheap Sierra’s and Speer’s in my BAR to find max velocity and best group sizes in the next week or so. Been reloading all summer during this COVID lockdown. Also lots of seating depth tests to see if I can get some of the loads to shoot any better.

Then it’s on to figure it out in a few new 30-06’s.

The very first center fire cartridge I ever used was my dad's 300 savage, but the 1st one I ever owned was a 270 in an M70 with a Weaver K4. I got my 1st 270 in 1968 or 69. The very first center fire rifle I ever built was also a 270, made on a Mauser and it's now on it's 3rd barrel and working towards a 4th.

I have owned nine 270s in my life and I still own 3. One is a Winchester Lever Action M95, one if the old Mauser I made back as a teen, and the last one is a classic Mauser I made for myself about 20 years ago.

I have had 2 other Mausers I built, another 270 in a 1956 made M70 Winchester, a Herders BSA import, a Ruger #1, and a Browning BAR. Of those I no longer have, the one I shot the most was one of the other Mausers I had set up with a peep sight. But I can't count how many rounds of 270 Winchester ammo have fired. Safe to say,,,,,,a bunch.

4831 in both H and IMR, as well as IMR4350 and the discontinued AA3100 are all great 270 powders..

I prefer 150 grain bullets for most use, but my older Mauser which has barrel #3 in it, for whatever reason likes the 130 grain bullets weight a lot better.

I can't say for sure how accurate my M95 lever action is because I can't shoot it any better then about 1-3/4" at 100 with the buckhorn and bead, but with 150 grain ammo I can hit about any target I can see with it to about 350 yards. I use 150 grain Round Nose bullets in that rifle. So far I can say I have never shot at any game with it I have not killed, and so far I have never needed to shoot more then one round at any game animal either, so the lack of a scope is not helping the animals much.

My oldest Mauser, (made over 50 years ago and on barrel #3) is the one that likes130s and with a batch of old Remington 130 gr Core-lokts (still have 700 left from the 70s) and a full charge of H4831 it shoots about 1 MOA. With the same load I can get 5/8" with 130 Nosler Partitions.

My "newer Mauser" is zeroed for 150 grain Nosler Partitions and a load of 3100 and shoots about 5/8" also. With 160 grain Noslers and a load of H4831 I get about 3/4". I have switched back and forth between those 2 bullets and can't say a single bad thing about either one.

So looking at what was written in the pages before, I can't say could add much here. LOTS of good advice in those pages.

I have loaded other powders at one time or another in my 270s with bullets as light as 90 grains, and the heaviest I ever used with the old 170 grain Speers. (I killed only 1 elk with one of those, but it worked quite well) I have used H414/WW760, 4064, 3031, RL-19, RL-22 and H1000.

But if I am asked "what powder should I get for my 270"? I would say get one can each of H4831, RL19 and 4350. Try all 3 in your gun. If it doesn't shoot well with one of those 3 it probably is not going to shoot well with anything.
Most 270s shoot very well with what they like, and it's an easy shell to get good accuracy from.

Re item 6: How does the length of the barrel affect pressure?

stammster said above ^^^^

"Shorter barrels generate less velocity and pressures for the same load. Therefore the loads at max in a 20” bbl will likely be over max in longer barrels. "

Redux:
mathman said...."Re item 6: How does the length of the barrel affect pressure?"

The ? is only per PRESSURE. we know longer barrels produce MORE velocity. -- pressure ? ? ?

Jerry

For the same load, shorter barrels develop less velocity. If you want to up the velocity, you need to up the pressure - by adding more powder...or changing to a faster powder. I think we are all in agreement.

Now come the question on pressure. Try this in QL with a slow burning powder like RL26. Keep all conditions the same and shorten the barrel length. Velocity and max pressure drop. Then adjust the powder charge to match the previous peak pressure in order to increase the velocity (safely). For the 270Win at 65,000 psi, a shorter barrel allows for a few more 1/10th of a grain before reaching this pressure. Note: Make sure you have 100% burn before the bullet exits the barrel though or all bets are off.

I realize many are going to disagree, and in full disclosure I am not a ballistician. These are only my observations.

This is a great thread, and I don’t want to go sideways. My only point being that the short barrel data I provided above should be used with caution if you are going to try it, and work up cautiously. Also short barrels chambered in 270 Win can still perform well when it comes to velocity, especially with RL26.

On a side note, whatever powder they use in the Hornady Superformance factory 270 Win loads has the least amount of velocity loss per inch of barrel change of any powder I’ve come across.

Nope. Shorter barrels don't develop less velocity because of less pressure. By that I mean the kind of pressure that causes hard bolt lift, sticky extraction and a safety issue in general.

It is because they truncate the length of the cylinder in the piston-cylinder system that is the bullet-barrel arrangement. The work done by expanding gas moving the bullet (which manifests as velocity) is described by an integral. If P is pressure and v is volume,then the work W is W = Integral of P(v)dv. By shortening the barrel you shorten the interval of integration. Since the integrand is nonnegative this results in a smaller value of W. Less work done means lower resulting velocity.

Peak pressure, the kind that causes problems when in excess, occurs relatively early in the bullet's travel down the bore. If you develop a load resulting in hard bolt lift and expanded primer pockets using a 26" barrel and cut the barrel to 20" you'll still get hard bolt lift and expanded primer pockets along with less velocity.

"Try this in QL with a slow burning powder like RL26. Keep all conditions the same and shorten the barrel length. Velocity and max pressure drop."

This is yet another reason I quit using QL a few years ago. Despite many people believing the program is "reality," it is merely a computer simulation that does not always reflect reality in several ways, especially pressure--as several ballistic laboratories have learned over the years.

Yikes. How is that real? Who wrote that code?

A very wise Man !!!

Old school, maybe ? but

waaa, waaa waaa




Jerry

Peak Pressure v. Area Under the Curve.

Very correct.




GR

Townsend Whelen's favorite load in the .270 was using the 140 grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet, until they stopped making that bullet. Would anyone happen to know the velocity he was getting? I assume it was approx. 3000 fps. as that was the velocity J.O'C said he (J.O'C) got when using the 140 grain bullet.

Sorry if this load has been previously written. 58 gr of H4831SC under the Hornady 140 gr sp.

I think JOC may have gone as high as 62 gr. with 130's. Agree that the slightly faster, newer H-4831 may be equivalent at around 59 gr.

I have some vintage H-4831 that I got back in the '60's. It came in paper bags in a divided cardboard box. The paper became brittle and I transferred the powder into empty plastic powder bottles, labeled them with a Sharpie. Powder still smells good, no brown dust and it still shoots good. I do keep it in a climate controlled shop.

I've used 60 gr., never pushed it to Jack's max.

DF

Just a note that 4831 did not have a H prefix during that time. The H came several years later.

60.0 gets me to 3,100 fps in a 24" bbl. Good enuff 4 me

That’s such a reliable load in most guns it’s crazy it works so well. I’ve seen folks try 56-57 and never push it a couple grains higher. The lower charges shoots like poo, but cranked up a little it really comes together.

The latest was my BIL’s late P64. Stunk till it started to get upwards in charge then really came alive.