Let them know what you think of them taking their Fullfield line manufacturing to China for 2020! Commie lovin Sons-a-bitches!
customerserviceburrisoptics.com
Any more email addresses or phone numbers are welcome.
That really sucks. I own 5 of their scopes and a pair of Bino's all made in the USA. I recently bought a Fullfield II scope that I like, but I'll be damned if I buy anything of theirs or anyone else made in China. I admit to owning a couple of scopes made in China but that was before I fully understood their role in attempting to overthrow the US. The Li family can go smoke a turd in hell.
Political issues aside, not all Burris scopes are going to China. Doug explained this in an earlier thread. Only FF IV and new Signature line. Fullfield II stays in PI and inspection in Colorado where there are more likely commies than in China.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Political issues aside, not all Burris scopes are going to China. Doug explained this in an earlier thread. Only FF IV and new Signature line. Fullfield II stays in PI and inspection in Colorado where there are more likely commies than in China.
Political issues aside, not all Burris scopes are going to China. Doug explained this in an earlier thread. Only FF IV and new Signature line. Fullfield II stays in PI and inspection in Colorado where there are more likely commies than in China.
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Just not enough of us think this way.
CEO's are responsible to the board of directors, Gross Profit Dollars/Gross profit percent and this all leads to bonus.
In the early 80's, they started shipping all the clothing manufacturing to Mexico and South America, then Mexico, then China. Everytime you saw the phrase, XYZ company just got approved to be a Most Favored Status nation, there goes thousands of American Jobs.
Wake up America!
"Built in America" is going to cost 30% or more to the cost of the item, which I am all for...sooner the better.
Yet another straw man from Burns. Have fun waiting. I don’t play those childish games. Not to mention that pics of dead critters have about zero to do with the quality of the scope. Not to mention that anybody can post pics of other people with dead critters. Not to mention that the scopes I use, and most of the world’s best scopes, come out of Japan (and Canada!), not China. Not to mention...
But I actually agree with your original statement. If only...
Well Jordy, let's break this word salad down, Barney Style.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Yet another straw man from Burns. Have fun waiting. I don’t play those childish games. Not to mention that pics of dead critters have about zero to do with the quality of the scope. Not to mention that anybody can post pics of other people with dead critters. Not to mention that the scopes I use, and most of the world’s best scopes, come out of Japan (and Canada!), not China. Not to mention...
But I actually agree with your original statement. If only...
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Yet another straw man from Burns. Have fun waiting. I don’t play those childish games. Not to mention that pics of dead critters have about zero to do with the quality of the scope.
If I had zero pictures of critters I might also think successful hunts have zero to do with the quality of the scope. Funny thing is why are you yip yapin if the quality of the scope is not important?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Not to mention that anybody can post pics of other people with dead critters.
Yet you can't. Hmmm.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Not to mention that the scopes I use, and most of the world’s best scopes, come out of Japan (and Canada!), not China. Not to mention...
But I actually agree with your original statement. If only...
Well Lil Feller, post up some pictures of those wonderful Japanese and Kanuck optics you use in the field.
Again, I'll wait.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Well Jordy, let's break this word salad down, Barney Style.
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Yet another straw man from Burns. Have fun waiting. I don’t play those childish games. Not to mention that pics of dead critters have about zero to do with the quality of the scope. Not to mention that anybody can post pics of other people with dead critters. Not to mention that the scopes I use, and most of the world’s best scopes, come out of Japan (and Canada!), not China. Not to mention...
But I actually agree with your original statement. If only...
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Yet another straw man from Burns. Have fun waiting. I don’t play those childish games. Not to mention that pics of dead critters have about zero to do with the quality of the scope.
If I had zero pictures of critters I might also think successful hunts have zero to do with the quality of the scope. Funny thing is why are you yip yapin if the quality of the scope is not important?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Ugh. We've been through this a thousand times. There are PLENTY of pics of successful hunts with a $50 scope mounted on the rifle. When considering mechanical failure rates, hitting a target the size of an elk once does not establish correct mechanical function. A couple of negatives (non-failures) are nothing more than a false positive result, and do nothing to establish mechanical integrity. I have to think that you're more intelligent than this. Or maybe you just have something to gain by falsely promoting Leupold's mechanical integrity? Sheesh, Burns. Your sales tactics are overbearing, spamming every thread you possibly can with your rhetoric and sales agenda. Give it a rest.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Not to mention that anybody can post pics of other people with dead critters.
Yet you can't. Hmmm.
Don't confuse "can't" with "won't". If you're craving my kill pics so badly, do a search on here and you'll find a select few of them. I post my pics when I choose to, on my terms, not because some troll is goading me into it.
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Not to mention that the scopes I use, and most of the world’s best scopes, come out of Japan (and Canada!), not China. Not to mention...
But I actually agree with your original statement. If only...
Well Lil Feller, post up some pictures of those wonderful Japanese and Kanuck optics you use in the field.
Again, I'll wait.
It's really a shame that you've become so condescending and narcissistic on here over the years. You used to be a nice fella. A LEGEND in your own mind, that's for sure. Carry on, don't let me change your mind. Not that it's possible.
I'm done here. Good luck on your hunts this fall, John.
I recently purchased a Burris handgun scope. 2-7x32 posi lock. Imagine my disappointment when I saw thst it was made in the Philippines. I should have spent another $200 and got a Leupold. I have 3 other Burris scopes that are American made.
Just because you're offended doesn't mean your right.
It's really a shame that you've become so condescending and narcissistic on here over the years. You used to be a nice fella. A LEGEND in your own mind, that's for sure. Carry on, don't let me change your mind. Not that it's possible.
I'm done here. Good luck on your hunts this fall, John.
Probably your best play but one wonders why you post snarky passive aggressive (proper use of the term) comments and then whine when I respond?
If you don't want or are not able to discuss it's better to just keep quiet.
Good Luck to you also.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Just not enough of us think this way.
CEO's are responsible to the board of directors, Gross Profit Dollars/Gross profit percent and this all leads to bonus.
In the early 80's, they started shipping all the clothing manufacturing to Mexico and South America, then Mexico, then China. Everytime you saw the phrase, XYZ company just got approved to be a Most Favored Status nation, there goes thousands of American Jobs.
Wake up America!
"Built in America" is going to cost 30% or more to the cost of the item, which I am all for...sooner the better.
True enough. That situation is created by legislators, at state and federal levels, who think that every entity has an endless pot of money to pay in to the government trough to be distributed by the enlightened few. People like to claim that it is business who just wants to screw us. I've got news for those people. Businesses don't exist for altruistic reasons. They exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money for their owners or shareholders, period. Markets have a way of finding a natural balance whereby the business can charge as much as they possibly can while still having buyers willing to pay that amount such that it maximizes profits and maintains a customer base. You can call that evil if you want. But, then volunteer your own pay cut. The problem is that know-it-all legislators, at all levels, get their stupid little fingers involved in everything and mess it all up for everybody. Here endeth the rant. Holy crap!
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I recently purchased a Burris handgun scope. 2-7x32 posi lock. Imagine my disappointment when I saw thst it was made in the Philippines. I should have spent another $200 and got a Leupold. I have 3 other Burris scopes that are American made.
Burris has had scopes manufactured in the Phillipines for years, using equipment they provided, by workers they trained. The quality is as good as ever, maybe a bit better. The Phillipine government isn't trying to destroy the U.S. and AFIK, Phillipine companies aren't owned by their military like many Chinese ones. Do you also avoid optics made in Japan, Germany, Austria?
By all means buy what makes you happy. Doing a bit of research beforehand will let you avoid buying stuff made in places you don't like.
Markets have a way of finding a natural balance whereby the business can charge as much as they possibly can while still having buyers willing to pay that amount such that it maximizes profits and maintains a customer base. You can call that evil if you want. But, then volunteer your own pay cut. The problem is that know-it-all legislators, at all levels, get their stupid little fingers involved in everything and mess it all up for everybody. Here endeth the rant. Holy crap![/quote]
Well said and the truth. Here in lies the difference between crony capitalism and true capitalism. Democracy vs Republic.
" Crony capitalism is an economic system in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk, but rather as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class."
I recently purchased a Burris handgun scope. 2-7x32 posi lock. Imagine my disappointment when I saw thst it was made in the Philippines. I should have spent another $200 and got a Leupold. I have 3 other Burris scopes that are American made.
Burris has had scopes manufactured in the Phillipines for years, using equipment they provided, by workers they trained. The quality is as good as ever, maybe a bit better. The Phillipine government isn't trying to destroy the U.S. and AFIK, Phillipine companies aren't owned by their military like many Chinese ones. Do you also avoid optics made in Japan, Germany, Austria?
By all means buy what makes you happy. Doing a bit of research beforehand will let you avoid buying stuff made in places you don't like.
I wonder how much those Philippine workers are paid in comparison to the American worker?
Things can be damned tough in the Phil, you're free to work hard and free to starve, but, you ain't assigned a job by the .gov, nor are you forced to abort your babies by the communist party.
Burris, ya'll listening?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I recently purchased a Burris handgun scope. 2-7x32 posi lock. Imagine my disappointment when I saw thst it was made in the Philippines. I should have spent another $200 and got a Leupold. I have 3 other Burris scopes that are American made.
Burris has had scopes manufactured in the Phillipines for years, using equipment they provided, by workers they trained. The quality is as good as ever, maybe a bit better. The Phillipine government isn't trying to destroy the U.S. and AFIK, Phillipine companies aren't owned by their military like many Chinese ones. Do you also avoid optics made in Japan, Germany, Austria?
By all means buy what makes you happy. Doing a bit of research beforehand will let you avoid buying stuff made in places you don't like.
I wonder how much those Philippine workers are paid in comparison to the American worker?
Likely in the neighborhood of $5-6 per day, could be a little more, possibly some sort of modest benefits... For sure it beats working sugar cane for $1/day.
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 09/24/20.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Just not enough of us think this way.
CEO's are responsible to the board of directors, Gross Profit Dollars/Gross profit percent and this all leads to bonus.
In the early 80's, they started shipping all the clothing manufacturing to Mexico and South America, then Mexico, then China. Everytime you saw the phrase, XYZ company just got approved to be a Most Favored Status nation, there goes thousands of American Jobs.
Wake up America!
"Built in America" is going to cost 30% or more to the cost of the item, which I am all for...sooner the better.
True enough. That situation is created by legislators, at state and federal levels, who think that every entity has an endless pot of money to pay in to the government trough to be distributed by the enlightened few. People like to claim that it is business who just wants to screw us. I've got news for those people. Businesses don't exist for altruistic reasons. They exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money for their owners or shareholders, period. Markets have a way of finding a natural balance whereby the business can charge as much as they possibly can while still having buyers willing to pay that amount such that it maximizes profits and maintains a customer base. You can call that evil if you want. But, then volunteer your own pay cut. The problem is that know-it-all legislators, at all levels, get their stupid little fingers involved in everything and mess it all up for everybody. Here endeth the rant. Holy crap!
We are all to blame, first and foremost. As Americans we demand cheap goods. As a result we live off the backs of 3rd world labor. Companies are endlessly engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of labor. Legislation (mostly) just reflects what we want. Our current economy is a bit of a fantasy that is ultimately not sustainable in its current reliance on 3rd world wages.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Just not enough of us think this way.
CEO's are responsible to the board of directors, Gross Profit Dollars/Gross profit percent and this all leads to bonus.
In the early 80's, they started shipping all the clothing manufacturing to Mexico and South America, then Mexico, then China. Everytime you saw the phrase, XYZ company just got approved to be a Most Favored Status nation, there goes thousands of American Jobs.
Wake up America!
"Built in America" is going to cost 30% or more to the cost of the item, which I am all for...sooner the better.
True enough. That situation is created by legislators, at state and federal levels, who think that every entity has an endless pot of money to pay in to the government trough to be distributed by the enlightened few. People like to claim that it is business who just wants to screw us. I've got news for those people. Businesses don't exist for altruistic reasons. They exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money for their owners or shareholders, period. Markets have a way of finding a natural balance whereby the business can charge as much as they possibly can while still having buyers willing to pay that amount such that it maximizes profits and maintains a customer base. You can call that evil if you want. But, then volunteer your own pay cut. The problem is that know-it-all legislators, at all levels, get their stupid little fingers involved in everything and mess it all up for everybody. Here endeth the rant. Holy crap!
We are all to blame, first and foremost. As Americans we demand cheap goods. As a result we live off the backs of 3rd world labor. Companies are endlessly engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of labor. Legislation (mostly) just reflects what we want. Our current economy is a bit of a fantasy that is ultimately not sustainable in its current reliance on 3rd world wages.
Well said Brad ^^^
kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
Americans are hooked on cheap goods....all the masses care about is, "how much?"
I'll take counterpoint on that. As is evidenced in this thread and so many more, a lot of us gun owner types are purposefully avoiding made in China products to the extent that we practically can.
Just not enough of us think this way.
CEO's are responsible to the board of directors, Gross Profit Dollars/Gross profit percent and this all leads to bonus.
In the early 80's, they started shipping all the clothing manufacturing to Mexico and South America, then Mexico, then China. Everytime you saw the phrase, XYZ company just got approved to be a Most Favored Status nation, there goes thousands of American Jobs.
Wake up America!
"Built in America" is going to cost 30% or more to the cost of the item, which I am all for...sooner the better.
True enough. That situation is created by legislators, at state and federal levels, who think that every entity has an endless pot of money to pay in to the government trough to be distributed by the enlightened few. People like to claim that it is business who just wants to screw us. I've got news for those people. Businesses don't exist for altruistic reasons. They exist for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money for their owners or shareholders, period. Markets have a way of finding a natural balance whereby the business can charge as much as they possibly can while still having buyers willing to pay that amount such that it maximizes profits and maintains a customer base. You can call that evil if you want. But, then volunteer your own pay cut. The problem is that know-it-all legislators, at all levels, get their stupid little fingers involved in everything and mess it all up for everybody. Here endeth the rant. Holy crap!
We are all to blame, first and foremost. As Americans we demand cheap goods. As a result we live off the backs of 3rd world labor. Companies are endlessly engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of labor. Legislation (mostly) just reflects what we want. Our current economy is a bit of a fantasy that is ultimately not sustainable in its current reliance on 3rd world wages.
The collective "we" is, all too often, not very bright.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
We are all to blame, first and foremost. As Americans we demand cheap goods. As a result we live off the backs of 3rd world labor. Companies are endlessly engaged in a race to the bottom in terms of labor. Legislation (mostly) just reflects what we want. Our current economy is a bit of a fantasy that is ultimately not sustainable in its current reliance on 3rd world wages. [/quote]
I explained this a work to some guys that like cruises and all inclusive.
Ask, how come there basically aren't all inclusives in the US? How come the cruise ships are foreign flagged.
Slave rate labor. Thats how you get the service for a few hundy a day.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
Would you consider Leupold Rifleman scopes lower priced?
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I recently purchased a Burris handgun scope. 2-7x32 posi lock. Imagine my disappointment when I saw thst it was made in the Philippines. I should have spent another $200 and got a Leupold. I have 3 other Burris scopes that are American made.
Burris has had scopes manufactured in the Phillipines for years, using equipment they provided, by workers they trained. The quality is as good as ever, maybe a bit better. The Phillipine government isn't trying to destroy the U.S. and AFIK, Phillipine companies aren't owned by their military like many Chinese ones. Do you also avoid optics made in Japan, Germany, Austria?
By all means buy what makes you happy. Doing a bit of research beforehand will let you avoid buying stuff made in places you don't like.
I wonder how much those Philippine workers are paid in comparison to the American worker?
I don't know. How much are the workers that make Swarovski, Zeiss, and Schmidt and Bender paid? Like workers everywhere, they likely are paid the going rate in their countries for the kind of work they do, plus or not, benefits, and are free to find other jobs if they don't like it. WTF diffence does it make? Lower taxes and less onerous regulation have as much to do with off-shoring as wages. Haven't heard about Phillipine optics workers jumping out of high windows like the folks who make iPhones.
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.
Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.
As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.
Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.
Come-on, guys.... It isn’t hard at all to call the technical support of any optics Company and find out where a given scope is made.
If the scope you’re interested in sells for $150, and has lots of bells-and-whistles, save yourself the call... You already know its COO, and it’s not the USA, Japan, Germany, or The Czech Republic.
“Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --- Will Rogers
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
If you look at the scope, it says "Made in China". Engraved right on it.
I do not think it gets clearer than that.
I have seen a few manufacturers in the past make everything in China, ship the eyepiece and the rest of the scope to Germany. Attach them there and proudly say "Assembled in Germany".
That was more than a little misleading.
What Burris does is pretty normal.
I do not think they have an obligation to spell out on the website where everything is made. I do not think Fullfield II is listed as made in Phillipines either. I would need to look more carefully perhaps, but other than saying XTR III is US made, I do not think anything is listed with a country of origin. Even their Signature HD spotting scope's Japanese manufacturing is not listed.
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.
Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.
As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.
Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.
I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on. Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.
I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country! Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.
Haven't heard about Phillipine optics workers jumping out of high windows like the folks who make iPhones.
That's a pretty low bar... not a place I want to park my conscience.
Okay, let me put it this way; do you have any evidence whatsoever that the workers in the Philippines that make Burris stuff are mistreated, or underpaid by their country's standard of living? Do you have any evidence that they're unhappy with their jobs and don't have any choice about how and where they work? Do you actually think that you help any worker by not buying things because you suspect that they aren't being paid enough to make them?
I just bought a nice Merino wool blanket, made in India. I doubt that the people who made it get paid the same as the ones that work for Bemidji here, but I'll bet their circumstances are tolerable according to their notions, and that losing their jobs because of hand-wringing Americans trying to "help" them by not buying their wares wouldn't sit well with them.
I also have a Witney Point Blanket made in England and brought here by my WAC aunt after the war. I doubt the workers in Witney were very well-to-do either, but still valued the jobs that allowed them to live their lives according to their standard. Some jobs are tough, and don't pay all that well. Twas ever thus, but there are ways to improve one's lot, unless actually a slave as some reportedly are in China.
Good idea. It would be nice to have a number to one of their executives instead considering they're the ones making the decisions those poor CS reps will have to answer for when we call.
Biden's most truthful quote ever came during his first press conference, 03/25/21. Drum roll please...... "I don't know, to be clear." and THAT is one promise he's kept!!!
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.
Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.
As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.
Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.
I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on. Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.
I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country! Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.
Yep. Remember the BS about some Olympic US uniforms being made in China. They were Ralph Lauren!
OK, Wal-Mart wants to sell a pair of jeans for <$15. So they cut every corner to get it under that and make a buck.
But Ralph Lauren. $100 an item clothing? And extra $5 for the seamstress isn't an issue. It not about American labor being too expensive. It's about an extra $5 profit/tens of thousands of products.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
If you look at the scope, it says "Made in China". Engraved right on it.
I do not think it gets clearer than that.
I have seen a few manufacturers in the past make everything in China, ship the eyepiece and the rest of the scope to Germany. Attach them there and proudly say "Assembled in Germany".
That was more than a little misleading.
What Burris does is pretty normal.
I do not think they have an obligation to spell out on the website where everything is made. I do not think Fullfield II is listed as made in Phillipines either. I would need to look more carefully perhaps, but other than saying XTR III is US made, I do not think anything is listed with a country of origin. Even their Signature HD spotting scope's Japanese manufacturing is not listed.
ILya
Look at the scope, yah, ok, down at feed store? LOL
Bullchit, Burris introduced a new 2020 line, hyped it up bigly in their catalog, the retailers hype it bigly, and it all sounds good, a Fullfield IV, just like my Fullfield IIs etc, but, get this it's made in the Country trying to kill us. Holly fuuck! Burris fuucked the pooch on this one.
There are lots of folks that care where stuff at all price points originates, exactly why the company and retailers are not divulging the information, because they wouldn't sell as many. Crooked scheming sons a bitches.
.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
Would you please stop holding back?
Getting there. The more excuses I read here for Burris the more I am assured of my stance. In 2020, Burris pissed on themselves going to China. .
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
If you look at the scope, it says "Made in China". Engraved right on it.
I do not think it gets clearer than that.
I have seen a few manufacturers in the past make everything in China, ship the eyepiece and the rest of the scope to Germany. Attach them there and proudly say "Assembled in Germany".
That was more than a little misleading.
What Burris does is pretty normal.
I do not think they have an obligation to spell out on the website where everything is made. I do not think Fullfield II is listed as made in Phillipines either. I would need to look more carefully perhaps, but other than saying XTR III is US made, I do not think anything is listed with a country of origin. Even their Signature HD spotting scope's Japanese manufacturing is not listed.
ILya
Look at the scope, yah, ok, down at feed store? LOL
Bullchit, Burris introduced a new 2020 line, hyped it up bigly in their catalog, the retailers hype it bigly, and it all sounds good, a Fullfield IV, just like my Fullfield IIs etc, but, get this it's made in the Country trying to kill us. Holly fuuck! Burris fuucked the pooch on this one.
There are lots of folks that care where stuff at all price points originates, exactly why the company and retailers are not divulging the information, because they wouldn't sell as many. Crooked scheming sons a bitches.
.
I am not arguing whether the screwed the pooch or not.
The point I am trying to make, that they are not lying to anyone or being deceitful. They are not scheming.
If they were scheming, they would find a way to conceal the country of origin.
They introduced the product line at SHOT. I walked over and asked them where it is made. They said China. Eveyrone reporting from SHOT said it was from China.
What do you want them to do? Give you a complete run down on where everything is made and broadcast it on nightly news in case someone missed it the day before?
You clearly care where it is made, so you found out. A ton of people don't, so it does not effect their purchasing decision.
When Leupold/Redfield introduced a scope made in China, did they advertise the country of origin? not at all.
When Zeiss made the turd aka Terra, did the advertise the country of origin? not at all (and they claimed that is Japan when pushed, and I seriously doubt it is).
I've never seen Burris or Vortex or a bunch of other companies try to hide anything like that. Ask them where it is made and they tell you. Where is the scheming?
Are you all excited that the hyped their new product? Are they supposed to NOT hype a new product?
Dad had a Fullfield. I got a Fullfield, cool. Got a Fullfield 2, ok, the Phil, no worries, doesn't bother me like it does some. Fullfield E1, yah buddy., good reviews etc, I like it, Burris is ok.. . New super duper 2020 Fullfield IV, looks great! Hey it's another Fullfield! Man I want one, Burris is cool, they aren't sellout sons a bitches.... Besides, it's 2 higher than a Fullfield 2! Gottabe good! Oh chit o dear that sob is made in fuucking China. No thanks.
A lot of patriots will choose other than MiC, if given the common courtesy of being informed. Ain't no surprise here now.
Yes, COO should be disclosed in all advertising and promotional materials for all products. Period. Anyone disagrees? BFD, post your opinion.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
We all know how well China respects intellectual properties and US patents. I expect a Burrcon Kung Flu 3-9x40 right after they start building in China. You have to be a special moron to buy a Chink anything with other alternatives out there.
Dad had a Fullfield. I got a Fullfield, cool. Got a Fullfield 2, ok, the Phil, no worries, doesn't bother me like it does some. Fullfield E1, yah buddy., good reviews etc, I like it, Burris is ok.. . New super duper 2020 Fullfield IV, looks great! Hey it's another Fullfield! Man I want one, Burris is cool, they aren't sellout sons a bitches.... Besides, it's 2 higher than a Fullfield 2! Gottabe good! Oh chit o dear that sob is made in fuucking China. No thanks.
A lot of patriots will choose other than MiC, if given the common courtesy of being informed. Ain't no surprise here now.
Yes, COO should be disclosed in all advertising and promotional materials for all products. Period. Anyone disagrees? BFD, post your opinion.
I don't need COO in advertising and promotions. I do need it clearly marked on the item or the packaging so that I can make an informed decision. I suppose it should also somehow be readily available to people making online orders. I avoid China products to the maximum practicable extent.
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.
Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.
As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.
Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.
I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on. Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.
I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country! Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.
K22 - the very end of your posts is VERY key.........as there has been a very big trend in a Global 'reset' in labor rates.........so yes, America has been falling, wages. The only way to hedge that, American consumers SUPPORT and BUY, MADE in the USA, made with American Citizens labor. Yes, prices will be a bit higher, but who can afford 'Cheap prices' if no one has a job left ? Sounds far fetched but it's been said often in the past few years, Automation, Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Robotics are going to replace 40% of the jobs in America in 10 years. If that hold true.....God help us all.........that weakens not only American's standard of living........but surely our nation as a whole, which weakens our Military over time, and so much more.
I say, like President Trump, America 1st. Sorry for whoever toes that hurts.......but it's how I feel in the country that currently is Free....
If we want our country to be like China, and we keep buying Chinese, we may well have their system of government.......only one election away.
As to Burris, I Loved that they were Made in the USA, when they all were...........and it seems to be a bit of a betrayal that yes, will piss on themselves for their decisions. Corporate bean counting is not always the best way to success.....there is a revival going on in America right now with patriotism.........going back to the Pride of products stamped MADE in the USA.......that are truly made here.
Folks who argue price......some may have many extra rifles they can sell to re-invest into quality optics, that are non-Chinese. Country of Origin to me, is a HUGE Deal. My .02
Before folks start claiming it's 'OUR Fault' for 'Demanding cheap goods' - let's stop and remember how all this started.
Corporate America wanted to increase margins, so offshored jobs and production.
As to say WalMart, Sam was proud to have signs all over the stores saying Made in the USA. He died, then his descendants took over....the rest is history.
Well, folks do not have a choice in all product categories to choose a USA made product.........but they do have a choice to buy or not buy a product for whatever reason they want.
I agree. We didn't demand cheaper products from slave labor, we were told (advertisement) we wanted cheaper made products by the advertising the companies did. I'm old enough to remember how all that went down with companies wanting cheap labor and keep the prices the same. Eventually they had to lower the prices, [threw us a bone], because the john public was catching on. Maybe folks in the last 30yrs. started demanding cheaper prices because they were well programmed.
I'm not so sure that foreign paid workers make a wage from US companies that equals the work performed. You can say it equals their countries average wage level, but what the hell does that mean? Paying slave labor wages is ok because that is the average income for the slaves in that country! Originally we, the folks in this country, wanted to bring the World living standards up to our level, now we want to lower ours to 3rd World standards with many being ok with that.
K22 - the very end of your posts is VERY key.........as there has been a very big trend in a Global 'reset' in labor rates.........so yes, America has been falling, wages. The only way to hedge that, American consumers SUPPORT and BUY, MADE in the USA, made with American Citizens labor. Yes, prices will be a bit higher, but who can afford 'Cheap prices' if no one has a job left ? Sounds far fetched but it's been said often in the past few years, Automation, Artificial Intelligence (AI) and Robotics are going to replace 40% of the jobs in America in 10 years. If that hold true.....God help us all.........that weakens not only American's standard of living........but surely our nation as a whole, which weakens our Military over time, and so much more.
I say, like President Trump, America 1st. Sorry for whoever toes that hurts.......but it's how I feel in the country that currently is Free....
If we want our country to be like China, and we keep buying Chinese, we may well have their system of government.......only one election away.
As to Burris, I Loved that they were Made in the USA, when they all were...........and it seems to be a bit of a betrayal that yes, will piss on themselves for their decisions. Corporate bean counting is not always the best way to success.....there is a revival going on in America right now with patriotism.........going back to the Pride of products stamped MADE in the USA.......that are truly made here.
Folks who argue price......some may have many extra rifles they can sell to re-invest into quality optics, that are non-Chinese. Country of Origin to me, is a HUGE Deal. My ,02
65BR - You communicated that quite well, much better than I could. Thank you.
You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
JG - So you feel say Weaver (last I knew many were made in Japan) and Leupold - have MIC parts? I know most glass is Asian sourced to spec. I thought many or most were Japan in past years. Who knows with China Counterfeited and reverse engineering, let alone IP theft. They say China invents nothing, just copies everyone else, and with factories there by companies around the globe, they have all they need to easily do it.
I was thinking the Freedom line by Leupold was Made in America, what about their Redfield line? Just curious. If Leupold goes MIC route I think they will implode.
Folks - even BUCK Knives, realized their bad decision and returned part of their mfg. from China, that they had been doing there, BEFORE the ChYnese Virus. Just a little FYI.
You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.
Leupold wonders WTF you are running your yap about.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Some here are wanting restitutions now for slave labor a couple centuries ago. Some are intimidated enough to go along with this horseshit.
What will happen when a bazillion Chinese come after us for reparations for their slave labor?
Sever all trade with these communist bastards, let our own corporations and workers set the prices of goods and services by competition as a capitalist nation should.
We can not depend on the Chinese to keep our markets supplied but that is their goal, to keep us dependant on them for our very existence.
Damn China.. no more Chinese schit!
g
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson
Where’s Bangladesh?? My new kuiu hat is made in Bangladesh.... 😂
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
As aside, I do find it funny folks biitch about leupold and run Burris. Funny stuff
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
You can rest assured that any $200 'ish rifle scope is MIC whether they admit it or not, no matter the brand. If not it has some subpar piece of crap components that won't last. No way around it.
Leupold wonders WTF you are running your yap about.
I was involved in their G&O program for about 10 years. Leupold doesn't wonder about that.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Burris XTR III scopes are made in the US Burris XTR II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield II scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Eliminator scopes are made in the Phillipines Burris Fullfield IV scopes are made in China Burris RT-5, RT-8 and Signature scopes are made in China.
I do not think Burris hiding the country of origin at all, so you can select based on your preferences.
It is not practical to build lower priced optics in the US, so noone does it. Burris actually builds a fair amount of stuff for the Steiner brand in the US. Somewhat paradoxically, I think there more Steiner branded products built in the US than Burris branded products.
ILya
If you go to the Burris website, select Fullfield IV for example, where's COO? Or their 2020 catalog highlighting the new China made muttherfuukers? Only reference to COO is the US Made XTRIII. No COO for their praised XTR Sig rings from Wuhan. They list FFII like its a great tradition then move right into FFIV, as if it is just more of a good thing.
I call bullchit on your statement above, Burris hides the COO of their products, plain and simple.
And so do their retailers.
It'd piss me off Royally to have bought a FFIV and see the MOC! Oh, fuuck I'd been pissed!
As others have said, I too was moving more towards Burris, however, this move to Communist China for 2020 new products is a deal breaker. Fuuck them if they continue the trend.
Didn’t you just buy a Sig RF that is MIC?
Kinda takes some of the oomph out of your rant.
Sure. And I put a sign out in front of our place that says 25mph and I sometimes go 30!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I'd have figured you know enough about the business to be aware of and understand the reason why its illegal for Leupold to simply print "Made in USA" on their products, packaging and advertising instead of the long, purposely obfuscating series of words they are constrained to use.
To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?
I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.
To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?
I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.
I would agree if those companies are making their products in China...........a known communist company who doesn't hide the fact they are all about taking America down.
As for Country of Origin stamped on Burris scopes, that is true, it is NOT on the box. The Fullfield II scope box I have says nothing on the box. I have yet to find a sporting goods store that will let me tear open a sealed optics box to see where it was made. I've also seen where a box says made in the US and the product say made in China.
To stick with the logic espoused my most on this thread shouldn’t we boycott Burris and Steiner since their profits mostly benefit an Italian company? And shouldn’t Americans boycott S&B, Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica and other companies of their ilk not headquartered in the USA?
I also agree with Ilya. Country of origin is stamped on Burris scopes, if that isn’t enough then tough $hit.
I would agree if those companies are making their products in China...........a known communist company who doesn't hide the fact they are all about taking America down.
As for Country of Origin stamped on Burris scopes, that is true, it is NOT on the box. The Fullfield II scope box I have says nothing on the box. I have yet to find a sporting goods store that will let me tear open a sealed optics box to see where it was made. I've also seen where a box says made in the US and the product say made in China.
+1 very interesting that they would not put COO on the box. It means they are trying to fool the consumer. They should be ashamed of themselves.
They must got a overwhelming response from the shooting community as there email is not working as of now. Boycott them boys. I can understand cheap labor but what china did to the whole world, ill spend more for what I want
So how is touting buying a Sig rangefinder Hecho En China different from buying a Burris product made in China? Some folks’ hypocrisy knows no bounds... I have four Burris scopes, 3 Signature Selects made in USA and a FourX made in the Philippines for the Euro market. All great scopes for their intended purpose. I also run some older Leupold scopes in the VX-II line which were made in the USA but who can guarantee every piece part was made wherever? I have a Leica rangefinder made in Portugal but probably has some Asian parts in it. I do try to avoid Chinese junk.
But trashing Burris and Cameraland shows you are more than a little butthurt over an issue that can be simply avoided.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
I am going to hell for sure. I just ordered a Burris scope from Cabela's, using my points. Damn those free scopes! We are stuck in a world-wide economy that includes China. That fact is not going to change, no matter how many multi-thousand dollar scopes people buy from Europe "for the good of the order". There is no better scope around than the SWFA scopes and they are foreign made-probably some parts from China.
If you want to make your statement, then pay extra money for a half-working Leupold that is supposedly made in America, or just buy what works for your particular needs.
I am by no means pro-China, but also realize that it is virtually impossible to buy ANYTHING that is not at least partly foreign made.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
So you say SWFA is the best scope around? What tells you that?
As to choices in what to buy, not one of us on this site, would die or suffer, if we never bought another scope or optical device. They are not 'Essential' basics.......
America better get it together, a majority of Drug ingredients that are used for meds used by Americans, are China sourced.......do you think President Xi would mind those ingredients causing cancer or harm? Buyer beware as they say..........
I for one, would love to have all products have COO stated clearly in their description, before purchase. You won't catch me buying anything from China when there is an alternative.
Folks have to decide what is more important......a price savings, or your livelihood and our nation, that will be passed on to our children, and so on.
U$D spent, circulating and kept INSIDE America, is Far healthier IMHO, or at least NOT sent to enemies of state, Communist for starters.
While I have nothing against Doug and Cameraland, what is being said here is not aimed soles at that business. I've bought from Cameraland in the past, was treated very well and I was very satisfied with the purchase. That was then, back before online buying, but this is now when our country and livelihood is at stake. Totally different times. We can come up with all kinds of emotional reasons of why we want to support companies that buy from a country who's sole intent is to destroy our Freedoms and our way of life along with our children's future. We can explain that away all we like, but the facts still remain of the intent of China towards our economy and country. You can put a tuxedo on an Ape, but it is still an Ape. As far as I am concerned, this is a time where companies and individuals have a choice to make. As I swore years ago................."Against all Enemies both Foreign and Domestic". I stand by that oath.
Don’t think you will find a person here who would be against eliminating our dependence on China. The problem is like mentioned above, we are in a world wide market, like it or not. I for one have an issue with a person trying to claim the moral high ground on one brand/company/retailer while supporting other MiC goods.
Just in the outdoor space their is a pretty extensive list of companies that hunters support with MiC products, Sitka, Kuiu, Vortex, First Lite, Badlands, Tenzing and the list goes on, this doesn’t even account for the companies that assemble in the US with sourced product. My point is, if you’re going to try to single out one retailer, you better be willing to dump them all, Sportsman Warehouse, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Scheels and the list goes on, pretty sure it goes without saying, not one person here is, or is going to ever do that. It’s the holier than though stance some make on certain products that rub me wrong.
Pretty much everyone of us is typing this on a MiC device.
I've had great dealings with Doug, and wish him success and feel he has done a great job dealing with his customers. Truth told I was never a person to buy optics and other goods when given a choice, that are made in China, before 2020........but have and will look at the various products they offer as he carries a large variety of brands made in various places. That's true of many vendors.
Perhaps Burris and others will re-think how to move forward. It seems it would be a win-win if Burris went back to the old ways, and proudly had Made in the USA on all their products.
I'd rather have 5 quality products I am proud of that are well built, to last........vs. say 20 made in China.
No doubt about your point K-22, it's no secret, China would bury us - the USA economically etc. if they could, but they NEED the USA to feed them our dollars to help them build their country. I think their gravy train has stalled greatly...
Perhaps Burris and other companies will read this thread and hear from many consumers wanting to maximize keeping U$D inside the USA.
SLM, you make good points, but as MORE American and Global consumers SHUN MIC products, businesses will re-think where they source products. Not only do I foresee China taking a Big hit, and perhaps never returning to what it has been, across ALL manufacturing......but I predict many American Corporations will leave China.
Now whether they do like Buck knives as I referred to earlier, and return that mfg. here in the USA, remains to be seen, but you can bet, ANY and EVERY business is learning not to put all your eggs in China.......and that consumers are choosing to shun MIC.
Now will APPLE, DELL, etc leave China, NIKE? All those decisions will likely be made based on one thing. The BOTTOM LINE which is what drove them to China to begin with.
Imagine if they faced competition from products completely Made in the USA.........I can imagine they'd quickly gain market share.
I truly see a conscious revival of Patriotism to support Made in USA and Cancel China purchases wherever possible. No doubt global trade will never cease, not likely in our lifetimes, but imagine what America would be, if we brought back 50, 60, 75% of the jobs and mfg. that was sent there.
Even as low as 20% return from China would make a definite hit and large improvement. If nothing else it would severely dampen their growth and military ability.
RC
Originally Posted By: slumlord
people that text all day get on my nerves
just knowing that people are out there with that ability,....just makes me wanna punch myself in the balls
So how is touting buying a Sig rangefinder Hecho En China different from buying a Burris product made in China? Some folks’ hypocrisy knows no bounds... I have four Burris scopes, 3 Signature Selects made in USA and a FourX made in the Philippines for the Euro market. All great scopes for their intended purpose. I also run some older Leupold scopes in the VX-II line which were made in the USA but who can guarantee every piece part was made wherever? I have a Leica rangefinder made in Portugal but probably has some Asian parts in it. I do try to avoid Chinese junk.
But trashing Burris and Cameraland shows you are more than a little butthurt over an issue that can be simply avoided.
Butthurt, hardly. LOL
Frankly I don't believe I have trashed CLNY, they're a retailer and make the choices they make to get our business. I owe them nothing. If anyone has been informed that Burris is now producing scopes in China and uses that in their decision making, it's perfectly satisfying to me.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Again, pretty hypocritical and chickenshit to bring it into a paying sponsors thread.
Doug willingly answered the question months ago, you commented about it in that thread as well. Then you bring it up out of the blue months later, guess some just like attention.
SLM, Your point indicating that cell phones, computers, and other communicating are made in China was not lost on me, but you have over looked a couple things. First, they pretty much have the entire communication device market, then there is what I believe MtnBoomer was actually pointing out on his disgust with Burris. Burris made this choice when the entire countries push is towards manufacturing in the USA. Also a big part of Pres. Trump's Presidency. It appears that Burris is giving Americans a huge middle finger. So I find it very comforting that we are hitting China with 25% plus in tariffs. And if US companies want to still manufacture in China it is going to cost them............BIG.
One could, if one wanted, and followed the news, make the case that Gemany is trying to establish the Fouth Reich by various stratagems instead of force of arms, which didn't work out so well for them a couple of times, all the while hiding behind our military. That would make them sneaky fuggers that shouldn't be supported by buying their beer, optics, chocolate, etc either, as opposed to overt enemies like the PRC. Pretty much the whole world is trying to screw us in some way or another, openly or covertly, because we've let them get away with it since the end of WWII, from which we emerged stronger and richer, while almost everyone else got devastated in whole or part. Trump has started the process of ending that situation, which is why the World hates him so much, including the Globalist pukes here. If we continue to be energy independent, technically innovative, reduce stupid regulation, and protect our ideas, we'll end up even stronger and richer, with everyone dependent on us, instead of us dependent on cheap foreign goods to maintain a phony high standard of living.
Unfortunately, there's only one Trump, who has at most four more years, and no clear successor with the doodads to finish the job.
Again, pretty hypocritical and chickenshit to bring it into a paying sponsors thread.
Doug willingly answered the question months ago, you commented about it in that thread as well. Then you bring it up out of the blue months later, guess some just like attention.
Again, thanks for breaking the great mystery.
TTT
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
In general, of all the countries that makes optics, China is the one trying to dominate US - the USA, and the World, and if unchecked may accomplish that.......and it will be our own fault.
Are American's willing to pay the price to lose our position, and accept the consequences? I think not.
I understand most all electronic devices are from China, my point was, we all have guilt in where we are with MiC goods. I think most would agree that it sucks Burris decided to source some lines to China. It was back in January/February that Burris released the IV line, which means it was in the works for years before that. In the current climate would Burris make the same decision? Who knows.
I wouldn’t have given this post a second thought if the OP hadn’t felt the need to sh it on an add with this thread already going. I like most would love to end our dependence on China, but I get a little tired of people getting on a soap box regarding one product or retailer when they are complacent with another. There’s a certain political party that follows the same tactics.
Guess I’m a little touchy on it cause I deal with the same hypocrisy in my profession, no MiC products, unless it’s convenient.
Again, pretty hypocritical and chickenshit to bring it into a paying sponsors thread.
Doug willingly answered the question months ago, you commented about it in that thread as well. Then you bring it up out of the blue months later, guess some just like attention.
Again, pretty hypocritical and chickenshit to bring it into a paying sponsors thread.
Doug willingly answered the question months ago, you commented about it in that thread as well. Then you bring it up out of the blue months later, guess some just like attention.
Again, thanks for breaking the great mystery.
TTT
TTT, Busy compiling my list of MiC products for discussion.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Again, pretty hypocritical and chickenshit to bring it into a paying sponsors thread.
Doug willingly answered the question months ago, you commented about it in that thread as well. Then you bring it up out of the blue months later, guess some just like attention.
Again, thanks for breaking the great mystery.
Ya agreed. Doug is a good dude.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Do you also avoid optics made in Japan, Germany, Austria?
By all means buy what makes you happy. Doing a bit of research beforehand will let you avoid buying stuff made in places you don't like.
I look for optics made made in Japan. Never had one go bad. Weaver, SWFA, Trijicon track and hold zero. Worse thing that happened was Weaver going under and losing their classic line of optics. They gave people a $250 hunting scope that had decent glass, tracked and held zero.
I've also seen where a box says made in the US and the product say made in China.
Stuff like that does get my dander up and the practice is rampant. Around 20 years ago I was in a Sam’s Wholesale Club and they had advertised, “Wild Caught Gulf of Mexico Shrimp”. The price was good so I asked for five pounds. Instead of scooping up the shrimp from the display and weighing it I was given a sealed plastic bag because the shrimp came to Sam’s in five pound bags. On the bag was stamped, “Farmed Raised-Product of Vietnam”. Stuff like that does get me pretty wound up.
I'm not too convinced the Philippines manufactured stuff was worth a dmn either. Had a timberline 2-7 fail to hold zero on a 22 mag rimfire rifle. Had a burris fast fire 3 fail to hold zero this year, on a 357 sp101.
I've shot moose and caribou with many different burris scopes. Heck, used a burris scout scope this year on a 55.75" racked moose. Also used burris binocs. Lady used the same rifle on a caribou. Fair enough to say: the company is not that good anymore and I'm stepping away from the brand all together. I used to defend their optics, no more.
Sounds like Boomer is letting his emotional connection to the Philippines/filipino's cause a bit of an over reaction.
I'll concede that, IMHO, the Govt In the Philippines is less likely than China to impact my life in a negative way, but if given the choice I'll choose an American job over a filipino job every day and twice on Sunday.
Why don't we have COO for everything. And be complete.
Ingredient lists on food aren't recipes, but they cover ingredients.
How about COO for the whole thing listed in order from most to least. Complex devices could show the 25/5075% marks to help clarify.
You can't tell me that if it was mandated they couldn't easily obtain that with a year or two lead.
I work in manufacturing, we are just a step, we bring in components and put them together, send them out for more processes.
One thing we do is a single step in a complex series for a very minor part of aircraft. It would be hard to do right now. But if our suppliers and theirs marked everything by percentage. In a year Boeing would have the ability.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I do much prefer to purchase something MiP than MiC. Folks in the Phil are not assigned jobs by the government, can go and do as they please, it's basically a Christian representative democracy etc. However, no welfare, no food boxes, no EBT.
Wife suggests not buying MiP due to the fact that business and government officials could readily be motivated to take negative shortcuts for bribes. The economics of MiC or MiP vs Made in the USA is not minor, it's likely huge and pays dividends for the manufacturer and their retailers. I don't think the US is the place for a company to pull off inexpensive quality optics production, but, any non-Com would be better than Com. (kudos to Leupold for trying) Burris, ime, was making totally adequate products, without selling out to China manufacturering this year.
Thanks for the discussion, as some are lost to the fact that is the forums purpose.
Originally Posted by jackmountain
Sounds like Boomer is letting his emotional connection to the Philippines/filipino's cause a bit of an over reaction.
I'll concede that, IMHO, the Govt In the Philippines is less likely than China to impact my life in a negative way, but if given the choice I'll choose an American job over a filipino job every day and twice on Sunday.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
I didn’t think Burris was ever a contender.. ever...
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I think MtnBoomer's point has been completely lost on many replying here. It is well understood that many products and parts are being made in China and forced upon us. In order to break that trend we as consumers must find a starting point and begin there. Burris like Walmart, when first starting was totally about being made in the USA. Huge selling point and one that got all of our attentions. As far Walmart goes, a deep dig into Sam Walton will reveal very interesting agreements, but that is another subject. So what is an American to do when confronted with this dilemma? I gather from some of the posts on this thread and the thread Camera Land started, that since we have very little say in where parts are made or where optics are made we just need to stay quite, accept our fate like good little slaves. "You can't fight City Hall ya know". And if the company I work for is buying products from China, well, nothing I can do about that ya know. Apathy seems to be the word of the day anymore and apathy coming from conservatives and Patriots is sad.
You have to start somewhere and I agree with MtnBoomer, Burris is a great starting point.
Just ordered a refurbished Nikon xbow scope. Says it's made in the Philippines.
Hope that's okay; I've kinda lost track of the drift of all this.
LOL
Country of Origin was listed?
Yup. On Natchezss. Of course they might be lying. Saw COO on some other stuff on Amazon yesterday too. Maybe there's a trend starting.
My Excalibur scope went bat-crap-crazy on me, just before the season opened here. Stuck a red dot on it for the meantime, but a scope is preferred. This one is half the weight of the original, but not lit, and the aiming points below center can't be calibrated like a variable can. Actually, after looking through the red dot for a half day from my treestand, it seems to be just fine up to 40 yards, even at the start of legal light. I could hit just fine at 50 and even 60 with the other one before it crashed, but just like taking a 600-yard poke with a rifle, a lot can happen after the trigger is pulled that can futz things up for you, so a little discretion is in order.
Like I said, “patriotic” till it’s not convenient.
So, you personally think someone is not a patriot if they buy or own products MiC?
What I have said is that there are patriots that would like COO information prior to making a purchase. You seem to indicate disagreement with that premise, repeatedly, and I think you're FoS.
I own and use numerous MiC products, don't recall saying otherwise. And you are correct, iI recall now, Nikon Monarch 3 bins. Many times I make decisions based up specific bang for buck criteria at the time.
Carry-on
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
So, you personally think someone is not a patriot if they buy or own products MiC?
Not at all, assumed with all your recent rants you were in the category,
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
A lot of patriots will choose other than MiC, if given the common courtesy of being informed. Ain't no surprise here now.
That you don’t see the hypocrisy is not surprising.
Why would it be hypocritical to want information? I didn't say all people, as in all circumstances all people will choose otherwise, including myself. You're making chit up. If I sought out MiC products in avoidance of nonCom manufacturing, that'd be hypocritical. And specifically to Burris Fullfield IVs, phucqking ehh right.
Simply explain why you think consumers should not be provided COO? That seems your stance.
It may help if pull your hand out of your pants when you're thinking about me. Your little obsession is a bit much. What's it been, like 4 days now? Dude. LOL
Go for, give it a try, explain why it's so terrible to advocate to have COO clearly and plainly available for retail products? Or to say FU Burris for caving this year? Again, let go of your weiner and focus the questions and not me. Or, FO.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holy fu ck you’re a dense one. It’s not hypocritical to want information, It’s hypocritical to post sh it like this, and then post all the MiC products you have.
I’ll type real slow for you, my stance was/is nobody places COO in adds like you called out CL for. Ready? Read this slowly, COO should be clearly marked on all products. As a consumer, you should be responsible to find COO if it is important to you before the purchase.
Here’s where the hypocrisy comes in again, you posted, and then quickly took down a long list of MiC optics you own and admitted you knew COO before the purchase. With the list you added why you chose many of the optics. Your range finding binocs excuse was it was the only unit that did what you wanted, hence the patriotic till it’s not convenient. If your convictions were as true as the quoted post below, there would have been options to get you to the same place.
This will still probably fly right over the top of your head.
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Just in the top twenty.
China phucqking binoculars!
China phucqking scope rings!
China phucqking riflescopes!
China phucqking spotting scopes!
China phucqking tripods!
What's left? Hmmmm. Cheap tripods might be a tough one maybe, but, good god there's plenty of awesome USA made scope rings, Japanese and European made scopes and binoculars. Spotters? Probably.
Just a thought, don't choose China first, maybe last would be a decent thing.
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
[Why would it be hypocritical to want information? I didn't say all people, as in all circumstances all people will choose otherwise, including myself. You're making chit up. If I sought out MiC products in avoidance of nonCom manufacturing, that'd be hypocritical. And specifically to Burris Fullfield IVs, phucqking ehh right.
Simply explain why you think consumers should not be provided COO? That seems your stance.
It may help if pull your hand out of your pants when you're thinking about me. Your little obsession is a bit much. What's it been, like 4 days now? Dude. LOL
Go for, give it a try, explain why it's so terrible to advocate to have COO clearly and plainly available for retail products? Or to say FU Burris for caving this year? Again, let go of your weiner and focus the questions and not me. Or, FO.
Holy fu ck you’re a dense one. It’s not hypocritical to want information, It’s hypocritical to post sh it like this, and then post all the MiC products you have.
I’ll type real slow for you, my stance was/is nobody places COO in adds like you called out CL for. Ready? Read this slowly, COO should be clearly marked on all products. As a consumer, you should be responsible to find COO if it is important to you before the purchase.
Here’s where the hypocrisy comes in again, you posted, and then quickly took down a long list of MiC optics you own and admitted you knew COO before the purchase. With the list you added why you chose many of the optics. Your range finding binocs excuse was it was the only unit that did what you wanted, hence the patriotic till it’s not convenient. If your convictions were as true as the quoted post below, there would have been options to get you to the same place.
This will still probably fly right over the top of your head.
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
Just in the top twenty.
China phucqking binoculars!
China phucqking scope rings!
China phucqking riflescopes!
China phucqking spotting scopes!
China phucqking tripods!
What's left? Hmmmm. Cheap tripods might be a tough one maybe, but, good god there's plenty of awesome USA made scope rings, Japanese and European made scopes and binoculars. Spotters? Probably.
Just a thought, don't choose China first, maybe last would be a decent thing.
Originally Posted by MtnBoomer
[Why would it be hypocritical to want information? I didn't say all people, as in all circumstances all people will choose otherwise, including myself. You're making chit up. If I sought out MiC products in avoidance of nonCom manufacturing, that'd be hypocritical. And specifically to Burris Fullfield IVs, phucqking ehh right.
Simply explain why you think consumers should not be provided COO? That seems your stance.
It may help if pull your hand out of your pants when you're thinking about me. Your little obsession is a bit much. What's it been, like 4 days now? Dude. LOL
Go for, give it a try, explain why it's so terrible to advocate to have COO clearly and plainly available for retail products? Or to say FU Burris for caving this year? Again, let go of your weiner and focus the questions and not me. Or, FO.
Haha 😂😂
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Fair question, as they don't say MADE in USA anymore...engineered, assembled, blah blah....
I have no beef with Leupold, BUT, rather 100% - though always been told, most, or ALL scopes had glass sourced in Asia...whether Japan or elsewhere. Made to spec........Leupold might comment, but there Binos- some are China, some Japan in the past. I don't approve but I don't run the company.
burrisoptics.com
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5808/yX1acd.jpg)
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5852/fLD918.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/wBHth5kR/IMG_1963.jpg)
![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3276/gizLT2.gif)
