Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters New brass vs. 1-Fired

Back when I started shooting (Reagan's 1st term) I was encouraged to always save the empties, because I'd be reloading some day. In 2000, I did finally start reloading, and I've been reloading ever since.

I find myself in an interesting situation. I need to run a batch of 8X57 before November to replenish my supply. However, all I have is brand new brass. It dawned on me: I've not hunted with loads where I was introducing new brass to the mix. It's all been 1-fired brass, in a lot of cases it was 1-fired from the rifle for which I was loading. In other cases, it was 1-fired that I bought online. I've shot new bass before, but never where everything else was known and settled.

So how does new brass generally change the mix? These are hunting loads that are well OFF-MAX. The brass is from the same batch as the previous ones. Left on my own, I'd just full-length resize and keep going.

Load them and keep on going. I always keep a few new ones stashed with which to load hunting ammo. Guaranteed peace of mind that zero issues crop up when away on a hunt.

With the new brass there's no need to resize them. They will fire form to fit the chamber of your rifle.

with most but not all new brass the necks are not perfectly round, I like to run new brass through a Lee Collet necksizing die then deburr. quick and easy and insures consistent neck tension before you prime and load

+1

Well, this is interesting.

I've heard full-length resize, neck size, and no sizing. Going into this, I was of the prediliction of first-time full-length sizing, but it was not a particularly educated opinion. I'll be interested in how this issue pans out.

Full length sizing is un necessary and the die will only touch the neck anyway, also the expander ball will do you no favors with concentricity. plus most lube when full length sizing.........no sizing can work in some cases but certainly not all.

The Lee collet neck die, no downside to it on new brass

I normally sort "new" cases by looking at them for dings,etc, in the neck area. some QC on my part. Then load a few with my chosen components, shoot to varife POI, them go hunting. Up here I`m not shooting more than 150 yrds anyway, so anything about 1 1/2" works.

I learned early on that new unfired brass absorbs much of the energy from the initial firing just to expand into its chamber. I've quantified it by shooting a known load in new brass, chronographing, and comparing it to loads with the same weight brass that have been fired in in the same chamber using fired brass. There is about a 1 gr. difference in velocity as compared to fired brass.

In order to not waste good bullets what I always did was to fireform my brass in the rifle I was going to use, then size and load as usual.

You would want to match the head stamps and shoot them together. I would load three rounds of each head stamp with the same load and look for a POI shift. Likely you won't find one big enough to make a difference for hunting purposes, but you might. "Never", "not possible", "can't happen" are not words I generally use when it comes to reloading. Variations can mean nothing or a lot. Never know until you try it.

Fact is I never used new brass on reloads for hunting. If I make a load on a batch of brass I keep that brass together for that load. Mark the box and put the empty's back in that box as soon as you fire them.

shaman,

As some have already mentioned, full-length resizing new brass is usually not only not necessary, but in what I call "basic" FL dies (which have an expander ball) often does it no good, because the expander pulls the neck out of alignment with the case body.

New brass is formed at the factory by a die that, unless really worn, leaves the cases really straight--because the die is not a resizing die, but the FINAL forming die, so does not have an expander ball.

That said, while the neck is straight, it's often dinged up, especially around the mouth. It's easy to fixed this by neck-sizing only, either by using a Lee Collet die or a basic FL die. With the basic die, just push the neck over the expander ball, then withdrawn the case. This normally does NOT pull the neck out if line with the case body, because the base of the case is supported squarely by the case holder as the case is pushed upward. You also normally don't even need to lube the inside of the neck, since bare brass is pretty slick.

It's only when RESIZING cases that problems with the expander ball occur, because only about half the rim is being held as the case is PULLED back over the resized neck.

You can bump it over the expander ball and call it good. Then chamfer that mouth, new brass often has a burr on the mouth. But chamber each empty case just to be sure.

Fact is, new brass or not, I chamber every round I'm taking hunting.

rather its new brass or used resized brass for my big game/coyote brass that i have loaded i always chamber my loaded or reloaded cartridges in the rifle i am hunting with,just to make sure it all fits good and i don`t get any bad surprises. have a great fall hunt,Pete53

Shaman, is there a reason you don't want to use your twice-fired brass?

This.

And I prefer 1x brass, since I only neck size. The 1x brass is now custom fit to my chamber. For hunting loads the difference isn't significant.



P

OK. I'll neck size with the Lee Collet Die and go from there.



I've got 3 piles of brass for this rifle at the moment:

1) The unfired brass that came from Grafs when I acquired the rifle
2) A batch of brass that's had a few loadings and is partially used
3) A couple of small lots that I used when I was developing loads. Even if I threw them all in, they'd be too few.

I intended to pull brass from pile #1.

Got it, makes all the sense in the world. Good hunting.

I full length size mine, because I had 50 new pieces of 270 WSM brass that only half would chamber. I make sure every piece of brass will chamber before I load it for hunting now.

Never seen that EVER !!!!!!!!........must have been some real Chit brass, I'd have tossed it all and started over

I use Lapua and Norma brass. All I do is trim to length, prime and load.

A few years ago I bought a large quantity of Federal 30/06 brass, all new. Tried about 50 pieces in my custom 06 and none would chamber until going through an FL die. Never had any problems like that with WW, Rem or Lapua cases.

It was Winchester brass, only time I’ve had that issue.

I had that with some PPU 7x57. Thing is after I sized it it was great brass.

I allways use the stuff that I was gonna toss so it s no loss. You dudes are way overthinking it all. MB

I tend to do what Magnum Bob does. If I was going on an expensive, or very important hunt , or after dangerous game, I would use once fired brass, and check all rounds to make sure they chamber. But I hunt on the family farm, only 35 miles away from home, and am mostly meat hunting and just getting out of town into the country. I tend to make my hunting loads from 4 or 5 times fired brass, so if I am shooting I can pay attention to the deer or coyote and not worry about throwing away a piece of brass that I've barely gotten the good from. If I've loaded it 4 or 5 times I am not so reluctant to let it land and stay there.

Y'all got to remember, that up until just a few years ago, I hadn't tried neck sizing at all. I was still FL sizing every time-- still had my training wheels on. My Mauser From Hell project was the first time I really thought about doing something different. I had a rifle that wasn't giving good results, so I tried to remove any possible factors. Neck sizing 1-fired brass seemed like a reasonable thing, and y'all were talking up Lee Collet dies. . . the next thing I knew, I'd shot the best group I'd ever done with a hunting rifle. It wasn't neck sizing that ended up being THE FIX for this rifle it was a bunch of stuff (hence The Mauser From Hell) However, this was the first rifle that I tried neck sizing on.

Thanks for the advice. I just neck-sized a bunch of new brass before I had to get ready for work.

Have done just about all of the above at one time or another. Now Mule Deer's method for new brass is what I usually do (expander ball only or collet) but have also used an ordinary Lee loader if the necks aren't dinged. When reloading, the only rifle I FLS for is my new Mini 14*; all others get partial sized or the collet, but I use a case-length headspace gauge like a Wilson or Lyman to check them and run some of the loads at least through the rifle to check fit there. Haven't had to "bump" any shoulders as yet; most of my brass only has a couple or three loads on it since it's so far mainly for hunting ammo and I have a good bit for all my rifles. If I pick up range brass that appears to be from factory ammo, I use that for setting up dies and making dummy rounds to save time and trouble with seaters.

Redding case lube combined with their neck lube make it easy to see how far down the neck the sizer goes when partial sizing.

*.44 mag loads are the exception

I use all new brass in belted Magnum cartridges for my hunting loads out of habit and I always make sure every case will chamber before loading. After that, neck sizing only for target brass. Happy Trails

My best results with new brass occur when I just Lee-collet-neck-size, as JB recommends.

When I have tried FL resizing, prior to the first loading, they would all work "OK" for a deer hunt, but not as tight a group as just neck sizing. (sometimes)

Disclosure : I’m not a gun writer .

I always size new , virgin brass . Which method of sizing is up to you ( body , neck , full length ) . Over the years I have tested several batches of Federal , Remington , Winchester , Starline , etc with a V-block and indicator and almost always they are found to be out - of – round and/or banana shaped . You will also notice that the case mouths will ( most times ) not be square with the case head & body axis . I like to make sure my cases are square , straight and true prior to trimming as case length will grow just by one pass through a sizing die if cases are banana shaped .

Also , I find that the head space dimension on most new / virgin bottle necked cartridge cases to be greatly under sized ( short ) by .015” or more ( using SAAMI specs ) . Not much you can do about that condition except to fire-form . There’s a huge array of rifle makes and models of varying vintage and chamber dimensions the manufacturers have to accommodate .

That'll happen a LOT with standard factory brass, because a lot of it is lop-sided, with one side of a case thicker than another. I can't recall seeing it with Starline, or any of the other good brands of brass I use these days.

One thing I really do like about RWS brass is that it is beautifully turned out, and needs nothing at all done before using it. It is fearsomely dear though.

Other brands, I'll typically size the necks, for which like others here I like Lee's Collet sizer. I'll also trim them all to the same length and chamfer inside the neck. Some brass is pretty good for round necks, proper length etc, but a lot of it isn't, especially the stuff that comes in bags.

With rifles I know to have oversized chambers, I'll also put something around the base of the case for the first firing, in front of the rim or extractor groove, to assist in keeping the case concentric with the bore axis when fireforming. I used to use a very narrow strip of masking tape, but a small o-ring also works and is simpler. Just make sure it comes out with the case after firing.

I don't ever full length size any brass, whether for bolt action, lever, falling block or break action rifles. There again, I never use cases fired in someone else's rifle, and keep separate lots of brass for rifles of the same calibre.

As a general rule I prefer to use fireformed and neck-sized cases when it really matters. They seem to give me better accuracy, though for some rifles the difference may not really be measurable or significant given what the rifle's capable of. It probably doesn't matter much for knocking off a deer or a pig at modest range either, and I have shot a fair few critters with factory fresh cases as well as factory loads.

Shaman, I have personally not seen a difference in point of impact or performance on new brass vs once fired brass so long as it's quality brass. Brass that isn't quality or is thicker on one side than the other will banana when fired and brass such as this might introduce some problems when reloading after it's once fired. I don't use cheap brass anymore or dies with expander balls that cause run-out problems so for the most part it avoids reloading issues for at least 3 reloadings apon which the brass begins to work harden and effect accuracy. Annealing takes care of that problem. I'm not sure if that's what you were after but hopefully it helps


Trystan