24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#15258762 09/26/20
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 133
W
wyomike Offline OP
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
W
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 133
Just curious if anyone uses much 4320 powder. I have a couple of cans that were stashed in the back of my reloading cabinet. I used to use it many years ago, so I thought I'd try it in something I never shot it in before. I tried it in my 7mm/08 with 120 Hornady's. I couldn't find any loading data in any of my reloading manuals, but I had a IMR Basic Reloading Manual that I had picked up at the LGS, and it had a load listed for it. I used 43 grains of 4320 and 120 Hornady gave me 2969 fps thru my 22'' Tikka Hunter. 3shot groups @100 yards were under 3/4''. I went as high as 45 grains of 4320, velocity was 3050 and groups didn't change much in size. Seems like anything I shoot in my Tikkas always impresses me. I also have one in 6.5 Creedmoor. They both shoot great with nothing done EXCEPT replace the trigger spring.
I shot 2 groups @ 200 yards and groups were very impressive, best one was 1.008. Scope was Leupold VX2 4-12 set @ 12 power.
When I first started reloading back in the early 60's (I'm a dinosaur) 4320 was a very popular powder. I used it in my 30/06 which was the only rifle I had back then. Any body using it?


Mike DeLuca----wyomike
BP-B2

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,810
M
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,810
It’s my powder of choice in the 17 Remington and the 35 Whelen. Great and consistent accuracy with both.

Last edited by mart; 09/26/20.

Chronographs, bore scopes and pattern boards have broke a lot of hearts.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,699
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,699
It has worked very well for me with 150/155 grain bullets in the 308. It is also quite good in the 250 and 300 Savages.

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 580
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 580
I use it in my .22-250s and my .250-3000s with excellent results.


Jackie Treehorn: Treats objects like women.

Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Montana uses Ruger actions.
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 140
C
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
C
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 140
I used 4320 for some load development in my 7x57. I carefully worked up to the max load of 47.0 grains as shown in the Nosler data for the 120 grain Nosler BT. My groups are shown in my notes to be in the 1 to 1.5 inch range. Velocity was estimated at around 2990 to 3000 fps. These reloads were not chrono graphed. These loads were shot in a sportified Peruvian Brno manufactured Mauser M98 of the mid 1930s era with the original stepped barrel. I have since added a second 7x57 to my gun safe; a Ruger 77 Mk II. This thread has energized me to work up some more loads with the remaining 120 grain Noslers; and see if this newer rifle likes them better. But I am not holding my breath. Both the Ruger and Mausers seem to have large throats, that do not favor the lighter bullets. In my two 7x57s I seem to do better with the heavier bullets in the 150 - 175 grain weights. When I say "energized me", that is saying a lot! At age 80, it takes a bit of coaxing to get this old body to move. smile !

CJ

IC B2

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
4320 is a wonderful powder, much neglected. But, IMHO it is, in 4 out of 5 burn rate charts, misplaced. Not deliberately, not carelessly, just a function of it's unique chemistry. 4320 gets a rapidly faster burn as bullet weight goes up, as internal volume decreases, and as throat length diminishes. And when it gets near peak operating pressure the pressures rise steeply in relation to charge weight increases. I suggest anyone doing unpublished load development to use the Norma Burn Rate chart, which correctly places 4320 down between 3031 and 4895 rather than up with H380. Norma also has the added advantage of using a 2 number ratio of velocity vs pressure...the best burn chart in the industry IMO.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,096
T
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,096
My go to for 300 Savage. I don’t use it in anything else but I always keep a couple pounds around for my 300s.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,818
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,818
Got a pre64 243 that doesn't seem to like anything other than 4320 and 100gr Solid Bases.

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by mart
It’s my powder of choice in the 17 Remington and the 35 Whelen. Great and consistent accuracy with both.


Was fantastic in my 35 Whelen. Seems mostly replaced buy some powders but 4320 STILL works very well.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,443
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,443
Very nice in the .250 and .300 Savages, as well as the 7x57. J O'C's load of 45gr behind the 140 Sierra (or 139 Hornady) does well for me, although JB's 48gr H4350 does well, too.



"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
Robert E. Howard
IC B3

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 514
G
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by flintlocke
4320 is a wonderful powder, much neglected. But, IMHO it is, in 4 out of 5 burn rate charts, misplaced. Not deliberately, not carelessly, just a function of it's unique chemistry. 4320 gets a rapidly faster burn as bullet weight goes up, as internal volume decreases, and as throat length diminishes. And when it gets near peak operating pressure the pressures rise steeply in relation to charge weight increases. I suggest anyone doing unpublished load development to use the Norma Burn Rate chart, which correctly places 4320 down between 3031 and 4895 rather than up with H380. Norma also has the added advantage of using a 2 number ratio of velocity vs pressure...the best burn chart in the industry IMO.

All powder companies should do this

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by flintlocke
4320 is a wonderful powder, much neglected. But, IMHO it is, in 4 out of 5 burn rate charts, misplaced. Not deliberately, not carelessly, just a function of it's unique chemistry. 4320 gets a rapidly faster burn as bullet weight goes up, as internal volume decreases, and as throat length diminishes. And when it gets near peak operating pressure the pressures rise steeply in relation to charge weight increases. I suggest anyone doing unpublished load development to use the Norma Burn Rate chart, which correctly places 4320 down between 3031 and 4895 rather than up with H380. Norma also has the added advantage of using a 2 number ratio of velocity vs pressure...the best burn chart in the industry IMO.

On your suggestion, I printed a copy of the Norma Burn Rate Chart. It does show some differences.

JB has long written than burn rates can vary from application to application.

Thnaks for that info. Not sure how fully I understand their Relative Velocity and Relative Pressure, but understand they're working against a standard, 43.2 gr. IMR 4350 in a .308 with 143 gr. FMJ bullet. I'm thinking about it.

DF

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,114
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,114
The only cartridge I have used it in is the .375 H&H. It did well in both velocity and accuracy. I here it is good in the .338-06

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 115
R
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
R
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 115
have been using 4320 for 30 years in my 1959 Savage 99 Featherweight.... 300 Savage with 150 gr Hornady Interlocks. Startted with it back then because that was what the data i had was using. Never tried anything else in that rifle. Will shoot 2 MOA or a little bit better often especially if the ballistics gods are with me that day. A Chrony test showed velocity about 2550 f/s. Took my share of deer with that load in east central minn brush places.

the small 'stick' size of 4320 makes it easy to measure. Goes thru a powder measure nicely.

When i started reloading a 223 first powder i reached for was the 4320 because that was what i had on my bench. Currently a consistent load is that powder pushing 55gr Sierra Varminters. Wont tell you my loads.....work up your own. My loads NEVER are at maximum.

Sporterized an old Mauser in 7 x 57 and i feed that one 4320 also. Have worked up respectable consistent mild loads with 140 gr Sierra ProHunters, 150 gr semi pointeds [ dont know if they are Winchester or Remington], 150 gr Partitions, and 165 gr Remington RN. Tried pushing the 150 grainer types with IMR4350. They did not play well together.

My current hunting load uses the 150 gr Partitions in a load which pretty much duplicates the 300 Savage load above. Will do MOA most of the time.

Even those ugly RN Remingtons will do 2" or 3" groups. And i havent really spent much time working up a load. [only reason i have these RN things is that a friend gave me about 200 of em, and i am too cheap to NOT use em. ]

right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find,. As are primers.

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 580
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 580
Originally Posted by RCflash
right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find,
It's been discontinued.


Jackie Treehorn: Treats objects like women.

Originally Posted by RichardAustin
Montana uses Ruger actions.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Jackie_Treehorn
Originally Posted by RCflash
right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find,
It's been discontinued.

Didn't know.

I guess my two cans will have to last a while...

DF

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Have mentioned this before here and there, but one of the best hunters (and running-game shots) I've ever known was one of my early mentors. He was also the ONLY handloader I've ever known who actually saved money by handloading.

He had two centerfire rifles, a Savage 99 in .250-3000 and a "sporterized" Argentine Mauser he bought for around $20 through the mail when he was in high school. Neither ever had a scope. The load he used for each was the "middle" charge of IMR4320 in the Speer manual of the say, with the cheapest 100-grain .25 or 180 .30 he could buy at the local store. He killed antelope, mule and whitetalls, and elk every year--and sometimes elk for other hunters in his group of family and friends, which was not unheard of back then if somebody got into a herd. Oh, and a pile of coyotes every winter the .250, back when the hides were worth a LOT.

Leaned a lot from him--and still miss him.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,463
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,463
I was ultra disappointed to hear of the demise of IMR-4320. It's my go-to 22-250 powder along with a 55 gr. Ballistic Tip. Have used it with satisfaction in a variety of other applications as well. I have burn rate charts. I know what other powders are in that ball park. But what's the best powder to use when I'd really like to get my hands on some IMR-4320 and it's unobtanium ? What a bummer. Think I only have about a pound left.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 284
S
Campfire Member
Online Content
Campfire Member
S
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 284
Have killed many whitetails with various charges and bullets in 7x57, 30/06, and 35 Whelen. Shot a nice South Dakota 5x5 whitetail buck with a 150gr Hornady Spire Point over 49gr of 4320 in my M700 30/06. Not a speedster, but a very accurate load.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Have mentioned this before here and there, but one of the best hunters (and running-game shots) I've ever known was one of my early mentors. He was also the ONLY handloader I've ever known who actually saved money by handloading.

He had two centerfire rifles, a Savage 99 in .250-3000 and a "sporterized" Argentine Mauser he bought for around $20 through the mail when he was in high school. Neither ever had a scope. The load he used for each was the "middle" charge of IMR4320 in the Speer manual of the say, with the cheapest 100-grain .25 or 180 .30 he could buy at the local store. He killed antelope, mule and whitetalls, and elk every year--and sometimes elk for other hunters in his group of family and friends, which was not unheard of back then if somebody got into a herd. Oh, and a pile of coyotes every winter the .250, back when the hides were worth a LOT.

Leaned a lot from him--and still miss him.


Growing up n the Thirties made people Uber Thrifty !

My wife’s guido (sp) Ukeranian for grandfather, was born just after the Spanish Flu in 1918.
Never drove a vehicle, hunted some local to their farm, mostly geese which were plentiful.
Ultra thrifty man. I miss him.


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Classic load for the 338’06 with 210 NP from Steve Timm article

Haven’t had a 338’06 for a while now, but I’d like to know of a suitable substitute if that changes.

Regards,


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Several powders work just about as well, which may be why it was discontinued, including both IMR and H4895, Varget, and IMR 4166. If you run out I would suggest whichever of those you can buy.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
I have both 4895, & Varget, so not panicking just yet.
Was wondering if there was an Extreme temperature insensitive in that burn rate


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 401
G
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
G
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 401
It worked great in my daughter's Rem 7 260

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Life's Tough, God's Good, Pray Hard!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,505
To your point, I used 4320 almost exclusively for speed and accuracy in my 338/06........

Since then, meant to try it in a few others. In research in the past, it looks very promising in 100-120s in 260 and 7/08. Respectively.

I have a few cans........and look forward to using it. Meters GREAT.....had TOP accuracy and speed in my 338/06, 1/2 MOA with many bullet weights, and 2910 with 200s, 2670 with 225s, 2790 with 215s. I doubt any other powder would better it in that round.

Hate to see it go, but few seemed to see it's worth.......very good powder and far underuttilized IMHO.

Oh to the 7//08 shooter talking about 200 yd groups, I shot several 3 shot groups one afternoon in a 700 varmint, chopped to 21" in a VLS stock with pad sanded out. 4-14x. Using Varget and 100 gr Hornady HPs, I was getting 1/2" groups....I was REALLY surprised, and let me tell you, they got downrange VERY Fast......I am guessing around 3,300. Just a thought for varmints........as to 120s, I shot varget with them and 140s with great accuracy, but 4064 did edge out Varget in accuracy with same excellent mv.


Last edited by 65BR; 09/26/20.
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by flintlocke
4320 is a wonderful powder, much neglected. But, IMHO it is, in 4 out of 5 burn rate charts, misplaced. Not deliberately, not carelessly, just a function of it's unique chemistry. 4320 gets a rapidly faster burn as bullet weight goes up, as internal volume decreases, and as throat length diminishes. And when it gets near peak operating pressure the pressures rise steeply in relation to charge weight increases. I suggest anyone doing unpublished load development to use the Norma Burn Rate chart, which correctly places 4320 down between 3031 and 4895 rather than up with H380. Norma also has the added advantage of using a 2 number ratio of velocity vs pressure...the best burn chart in the industry IMO.

On your suggestion, I printed a copy of the Norma Burn Rate Chart. It does show some differences.

JB has long written than burn rates can vary from application to application.

Thnaks for that info. Not sure how fully I understand their Relative Velocity and Relative Pressure, but understand they're working against a standard, 43.2 gr. IMR 4350 in a .308 with 143 gr. FMJ bullet. I'm thinking about it.

DF
Read the preface to the Norma chart...the baseline is IMR 4350, we are all familiar with it, let's say a load like 57 gr 4350 with a 165 gr bullet is our standard, we will reassign that velocity number from that load as 100. We will reassign the actual pressure number also with 100 (it might be 49,500 C.U.P., it's immaterial). So we can conclude, faster powder will generate increased vel., example, lets say 120 (think of it as 120% higher vel than our standard of 4350) but also we know our pressure increases, let's say the chart says 135 in the pressure column for powder X, so we have learned, the easy way that powder X gave us 20% higher vel. but at the cost of a rather high 35% more pressure. Maybe we want to try a powder that is not so "peaky" pressure wise. Remember, it's just a relative number, like playing poker with lima beans. But invaluable when you are developing loads with no data.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 820
it's a great powder for general purpose use. I've got load data for 243, 7-08, 308 and 358 and it did "fine" for all of those. for each, I ended up using a different powder eventually, but the performance differences were slight in most cases.


First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
Originally Posted by wyomike
Just curious if anyone uses much 4320 powder. I have a couple of cans that were stashed in the back of my reloading cabinet. I used to use it many years ago, so I thought I'd try it in something I never shot it in before. I tried it in my 7mm/08 with 120 Hornady's. I couldn't find any loading data in any of my reloading manuals, but I had a IMR Basic Reloading Manual that I had picked up at the LGS, and it had a load listed for it. I used 43 grains of 4320 and 120 Hornady gave me 2969 fps thru my 22'' Tikka Hunter. 3shot groups @100 yards were under 3/4''. I went as high as 45 grains of 4320, velocity was 3050 and groups didn't change much in size. Seems like anything I shoot in my Tikkas always impresses me. I also have one in 6.5 Creedmoor. They both shoot great with nothing done EXCEPT replace the trigger spring.
I shot 2 groups @ 200 yards and groups were very impressive, best one was 1.008. Scope was Leupold VX2 4-12 set @ 12 power.
When I first started reloading back in the early 60's (I'm a dinosaur) 4320 was a very popular powder. I used it in my 30/06 which was the only rifle I had back then. Any body using it?


ALL of the older IMR powders worked great then, and still work great now... that's why they are still on the shelves and still sell well with little fanfare...everyone seems to go for the new latest greatest...

me, along with the old age mold, I tend to use stuff that has been reliably working for decades, instead of trying to re invent the wheel for something a hair better....

but then a Tikka... if you could ignite sand.. I bet a Tikka would even turn in tight groups with that...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
Originally Posted by Jackie_Treehorn
Originally Posted by RCflash
right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find,
It's been discontinued.


Well this news sure put a hole in the bottom of my canoe this morning...

That put a fast end to having a good day starting out....

I hate the way Hodgdon ( being the chief powder company anymore) keeps canceling powders that have worked and been around for decades upon decades, so they can cater to the " gotta used what's the newest and most improved, latest greatest powder" crowd....

Fairwell 4320.. you've always been a great product....

bet 3031, 4064 and IMR 4895 and 4198 are on the chopping box coming up.... damn it..

it won't matter if Biden and KalamamaDingDong get the keys to the White House...

They'll have Bozo O'Rourke out confiscating our guns anyway....


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,985
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,985
Sorry to hear it is being axed. IMR 4320 has been my goto since I started loading in the 60's. Still use it almost exclusively in the 308, with lighter bullets in the -06 and the 375H&H and anything else that needs it. This powder situation is really beginning to suck.


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,463
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,463
Thanks for the tip concerning the 4895's & Varget. Got plenty of IMR-4895; Like an almost full one pounder, a full one pounder and my unopened 8 lb. jug, and over a pound of Varget, and a pound of H-4895. Still gonna miss that 4320 when mine runs out. Last time I bought 4320 was during the Obama administration when it was scarce and I got lucky and scored a few pounds.

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
I still have a decent supply of 4320, partly because I try to keep at least some of most rifle powders on hand (you don't want to know how many). It's a good powder, but when powder companies discontinue one it's almost always due to one reason: It's not selling well enough for the manufacturer to spend the time change over their production line to make more.

This can be blamed on "too many" newer powders, but despite what many older handloaders prefer to believe, many of the newer powders are indeed superior, often in more than one way. Which is why they sell better--especially among target shooters, who burn far more powder than the average plinker/varmint shooter/big game hunter.

One additional comment: I have a big collection of old gun magazines and books, and believe it or not some contain complaints about how popular powders were being discontinued--due to new-fangled powders like the IMR powders DuPont in the 1930s--which included 4320.

I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future, but it has a burn-rate that's not as "duplicated" by newer powders.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,443
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,443
I've found RL15 to be a good substitute in the .250 and .300.



"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing."
Robert E. Howard
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,681
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,681
I am usually concerned with accuracy over velocity so... Last fall, when I was finishing up the 30-303 Book (a 303 British, but using a .308 barrel) I noticed that almost all the accurate groups were shot with newer powders. I tried the old standbys too, but most could not match the latest burns.

IMR 4320, a good powder for 308s, 303s and several other mid sized cartridges, managed to hang on with a couple of loads. 4320 and some other old timers, were eclipsed by Varget, IMR4451, Re 15 and Re 17. While Varget and Re 15 aren't brand new, they are much younger than IMR 4320, 3031, 4350, etc.

If you have a cartridge that likes 4320, you either have to buy up 4320, if you can find it, or start experimenting with the newcomers.


Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
www.303british.com

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain
Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,410
T
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
T
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,410
My only use for 4320 was for colony varmint cartridge ... .17 Remington and .220 Swift. My swift load was a fireforming load with the 52 grain Speer hollowpoint around 3300 fps that shot quarter inch groups. In the .17 I used 25.2 grains under 25 grain Remington hollowpoints and somewhat frequently had groups fall under 1/10th of an inch out of a factory 700 BDL. I'd dropped a 2 ounce 40x match trigger w/o a safety into the action and stuck it in an HS precision stock for a 1.25" cylindrical barrel .. yep, that one was free-floated. smile Good times. Sure wasn't a gun I let anyone else shoot. That load is apparently a good bit beyond book maximum now but it was book, top end, when I worked up to it.

I have a few pounds on hand 'cause I do plan to do another .17 Remington. There are other good powders, but only one that is truly spectacular: 4320.


Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.

Here be dragons ...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,226
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,226
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future
I hope this is not true. Love it in a 30-30, 7-30 Waters and 375-284.


Murphy was a grunt.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,078
L
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,078
I agree on the sad to hear about being discontinued.
I use it for my 416 Ruger.


Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Jackie_Treehorn
Originally Posted by RCflash
right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find,
It's been discontinued.

Didn't know.

I guess my two cans will have to last a while...

DF

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,985
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,985
What MD said is true. Folks who shoot competition burn far more powder than hunters. Last time I bought an 8lb was in the 80's when I used to run H4895 in my M1 for High Power. Just checked my inventory and have over a pound of 4320. With the few cartridges I use it in with loads long since developed, it will last me the rest of my hunting life.
Now if I can just find a pound of RL26...


I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
F
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,962
Originally Posted by fremont
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future
I hope this is not true. Love it in a 30-30, 7-30 Waters and 375-284.

My big metal keg of 4320 is just about gone so I tried Norma 201, almost a dead ringer for 4320, maybe a tad better accuracy, but oh boy, try finding 201 in my part of the world.
Similarly...Fearing the untimely demise of 3031, I started experimenting with Hodgdon Benchmark,(supposedly a 3031 substitute) with less than stellar results thus far...target loads in .308, hunting loads in the 8x57, light bullets in the Roberts. But my methodology is lacking, all I did was try to duplicate velocity of my existing 3031 loads of proven accuracy. The jury is still out. I suppose the old farts complained about 3031 when it was introduced to replace HiVel #2.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,985
G
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,985
And to think I was well stocked with all my beloved favorites. Now it appears I gotta start hoarding 3031, for it is the darling of the small pile of .30-30-class rifles I have, for both jacketed and cast hunting loads.

My last scare was with SR-4759, probably the all time greatest powder for cast bullets. Through diligent (and sometimes hardnosed) effort I countered Hodgdon's discontinuance of it, and am sitting on what should be enough for the rest of my days.

I'm the odd man out, re: 4320. I don't recall ever buying/using any. Not purposefully, just the way it panned out. Weird.

Some days I wonder if I were better off selling the whole darned lot of my smokeless rifles and replace them with all black powder cartridge guns, and buy a keg of powder and be done with it.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
gnoahhh

I'm similar but diff powder.

I ONLY ever bought ONE (1) pound of 3031. It is too fast burning for any cartridge I ever loaded.

I bought and used several pounds of 4320 for my 35 Whelen. My understanding of its burning rate is
between 4064 - 4320 - 4350. I have wondered if I should have tried to find out how close to 4350 it is/was.

Oh Well. I'm sad to see it go but I won't have a void.


Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,724
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,724

It is one common powder that I never got around to using - always seemed to be too fast for my applications.


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)

Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
I look at newer "improved" powders the same as I looked at Ethanol replacing Pure Gas....B. S. no matter what they tell me....

My biggest used lists of powders are/Were... SR 4759, IMR 4198, 3031, 4064, IMR 4895, to a less extent 4320 but always have kept 4 lbs or so on the shelf...After IMR powders, My preference was with Alliant Powders...probably because they were out of Radford VA, near my home roots from the last 200 plus years...

of course, I also prefer Federal brass and primers living near Anoka MN for 15 years...

Use to try all the new stuff, but finally found myself using old school stuff the most, stuff that had been around longer than me.. it worked then and its still works just fine now...solid predictable performers...guess I'll keep using the ones I can, until the Good Lord discontinues ME...

Guess bottom line, I just don't see what's so great and appealing about "Change",,,,,

Guess I better start looking for a couple of 8 pounders of 3031....got the heads up when they were discontinuing SR 4759, so I picked up four 8 pounders of it on sale...cheap... I've been reconnecting with the accuracy 3031 returns...

been working with the 6.5 Grendal lately, which I enjoy... just brought home how much the average cost of 6.5 mm has gone up and the old standys are all being or have been discontinued...got a 6mm ARC barrel on the way also...4350 and such really don't work so good in these cartridges...nor the 223s, or 22.250s...

heck, last couple of months, going over to the range and target shooting with a heavy barrel 223, I've been having a blast with the accuracy of Unique in a 223 case.. shooting 40 to 80 rounds in an hour or two...doesn't really heat up the barrel very much in the long run.. a pound of it lasts a long time... 4 pound container, lasts a really long time.. the 8 pounder even more so...

each does a good job of plinking at 200 yrds at targets the max range of that particular shorter range... everyone thinks they need the far range ( out to 600) to zero their rifle for 50 yds black tail hunting... those big 90 to 100 pounder Blacktails....

like everything.... vendors want to max out the cost of everything.. .driven by their accountants.. Abe Horowitz


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Originally Posted by jwall
gnoahhh

I'm similar but diff powder.

I ONLY ever bought ONE (1) pound of 3031. It is too fast burning for any cartridge I ever loaded.

I bought and used several pounds of 4320 for my 35 Whelen. My understanding of its burning rate is
between 4064 - 4320 - 4350. I have wondered if I should have tried to find out how close to 4350 it is/was.

Oh Well. I'm sad to see it go but I won't have a void.


Jerry


IMR4320 isn't nearly as slow-burning as IMR4350, and in fact is almost identical in burn-rate to IMR4064. You can find this out easily by looking at Hodgdon's on-line data. Rarely will maximum charges of 4320 and 4064 vary more than a grain in the same application, and often they'll be even closer.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by Mule Deer



Jerry

IMR4320 isn't nearly as slow-burning as IMR4350, and in fact is almost identical in burn-rate to IMR4064. You can find this out easily by looking at Hodgdon's on-line data. Rarely will maximum charges of 4320 and 4064 vary more than a grain in the same application, and often they'll be even closer.


Thanks You Sir:

The only rifle I ever used 4320 in was the 35 Wh.

4064 was one of my FIRST powders BECAUSE JOC used 52/52.5 grs of it in 06 with 150 gr bullets.

Also 49 grs of it in 270 with 130s. I'd guess that DATES myself, huh ? lol

I appreciate this info from you because of your experience with many more rifles/cartridges/powders than I have.
I'm far from a newbee but I'm not in the BIZ.

THAT IS GOOD NEWS for 35 W shooters -- 4064 is close to 4320 ! I'd like to have known that then.
I also know there are newer powders some are using in the Whelen but I'm not sure they are better. ???

Thnx Again

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 10/02/20.

jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,775
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 8,775
When I started loading for the 35 Whelen velocity pressure levels were held to 2600 fps for 225 gr bullets. The 225 NPT has long been my goto bullet in the Whelen, guy can argue the 200's or 250 s for this or that I don't care, I use the 225 gr NPT on everything that needs whelenizing. Flat works started at 2600 fps with a max dose of 4320. Kills everything dead and you can eat right up to the bullet hole. I won't gnash my teeth , pull out my hair or wail inconsolably about 4320's demise, I am damn sure that there are other powders that can replace it for me. Magnum Bob


" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
I got an extra can, loading for my bud's .416 Rem. Actually traded a guy some RL-26 for some 4320. Seems they're both scarce.

DF

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
IMR4320 is the only thing I've ever used for the 350 Rem Mag. Load data for that cartridge is scarce, especially with new powders. Losing IMR4320 is a tragic.


Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
390 members (300jimmy, 1lesfox, 160user, 257 mag, 1lessdog, 12344mag, 40 invisible), 2,067 guests, and 900 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,594
Posts18,398,004
Members73,815
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.103s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0567 MB (Peak: 1.3828 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 11:27:36 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS