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Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15260869 09/26/20
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,364 NE Alberta 3 338Rules Campfire Regular
338Rules Campfire Regular 3 Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,364 NE Alberta	Classic load for the 338’06 with 210 NP from Steve Timm article Haven’t had a 338’06 for a while now, but I’d like to know of a suitable substitute if that changes. Regards, History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.

GB1

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15260906 09/26/20
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,049 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna
Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,049 Banana Belt, Montana	Several powders work just about as well, which may be why it was discontinued, including both IMR and H4895, Varget, and IMR 4166. If you run out I would suggest whichever of those you can buy. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: IMR 4320 Mule Deer #15260968 09/26/20
Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,364 NE Alberta 3 338Rules Campfire Regular
338Rules Campfire Regular 3 Joined: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,364 NE Alberta	I have both 4895, & Varget, so not panicking just yet. Was wondering if there was an Extreme temperature insensitive in that burn rate History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15261022 09/26/20
Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 403 NC G Guybo54 Campfire Member
Guybo54 Campfire Member G Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 403 NC	It worked great in my daughter's Rem 7 260 Life's Tough, God's Good, Pray Hard!

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15261109 09/26/20
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 16,512 Louisiana 65BR Campfire Ranger
65BR Campfire Ranger Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 16,512 Louisiana	To your point, I used 4320 almost exclusively for speed and accuracy in my 338/06........ Since then, meant to try it in a few others. In research in the past, it looks very promising in 100-120s in 260 and 7/08. Respectively. I have a few cans........and look forward to using it. Meters GREAT.....had TOP accuracy and speed in my 338/06, 1/2 MOA with many bullet weights, and 2910 with 200s, 2670 with 225s, 2790 with 215s. I doubt any other powder would better it in that round. Hate to see it go, but few seemed to see it's worth.......very good powder and far underuttilized IMHO. Oh to the 7//08 shooter talking about 200 yd groups, I shot several 3 shot groups one afternoon in a 700 varmint, chopped to 21" in a VLS stock with pad sanded out. 4-14x. Using Varget and 100 gr Hornady HPs, I was getting 1/2" groups....I was REALLY surprised, and let me tell you, they got downrange VERY Fast......I am guessing around 3,300. Just a thought for varmints........as to 120s, I shot varget with them and 140s with great accuracy, but 4064 did edge out Varget in accuracy with same excellent mv. Last edited by 65BR; 09/26/20.

IC B2

Re: IMR 4320 Dirtfarmer #15261147 09/26/20
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 9,053 Siskiyou Co.,Jefferson State F flintlocke Campfire Outfitter
flintlocke Campfire Outfitter F Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 9,053 Siskiyou Co.,Jefferson State	Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer Originally Posted by flintlocke 4320 is a wonderful powder, much neglected. But, IMHO it is, in 4 out of 5 burn rate charts, misplaced. Not deliberately, not carelessly, just a function of it's unique chemistry. 4320 gets a rapidly faster burn as bullet weight goes up, as internal volume decreases, and as throat length diminishes. And when it gets near peak operating pressure the pressures rise steeply in relation to charge weight increases. I suggest anyone doing unpublished load development to use the Norma Burn Rate chart, which correctly places 4320 down between 3031 and 4895 rather than up with H380. Norma also has the added advantage of using a 2 number ratio of velocity vs pressure...the best burn chart in the industry IMO. On your suggestion, I printed a copy of the Norma Burn Rate Chart. It does show some differences. JB has long written than burn rates can vary from application to application. Thnaks for that info. Not sure how fully I understand their Relative Velocity and Relative Pressure, but understand they're working against a standard, 43.2 gr. IMR 4350 in a .308 with 143 gr. FMJ bullet. I'm thinking about it. DF Read the preface to the Norma chart...the baseline is IMR 4350, we are all familiar with it, let's say a load like 57 gr 4350 with a 165 gr bullet is our standard, we will reassign that velocity number from that load as 100. We will reassign the actual pressure number also with 100 (it might be 49,500 C.U.P., it's immaterial). So we can conclude, faster powder will generate increased vel., example, lets say 120 (think of it as 120% higher vel than our standard of 4350) but also we know our pressure increases, let's say the chart says 135 in the pressure column for powder X, so we have learned, the easy way that powder X gave us 20% higher vel. but at the cost of a rather high 35% more pressure. Maybe we want to try a powder that is not so "peaky" pressure wise. Remember, it's just a relative number, like playing poker with lima beans. But invaluable when you are developing loads with no data. Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15261642 09/27/20
Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 829 Denton, TX Billy_Goat Campfire Regular
Billy_Goat Campfire Regular Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 829 Denton, TX	it's a great powder for general purpose use. I've got load data for 243, 7-08, 308 and 358 and it did "fine" for all of those. for each, I ended up using a different powder eventually, but the performance differences were slight in most cases. First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15261819 09/27/20
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,695 Southern Oregon USA S Seafire Campfire 'Bwana
Seafire Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,695 Southern Oregon USA	Originally Posted by wyomike Just curious if anyone uses much 4320 powder. I have a couple of cans that were stashed in the back of my reloading cabinet. I used to use it many years ago, so I thought I'd try it in something I never shot it in before. I tried it in my 7mm/08 with 120 Hornady's. I couldn't find any loading data in any of my reloading manuals, but I had a IMR Basic Reloading Manual that I had picked up at the LGS, and it had a load listed for it. I used 43 grains of 4320 and 120 Hornady gave me 2969 fps thru my 22'' Tikka Hunter. 3shot groups @100 yards were under 3/4''. I went as high as 45 grains of 4320, velocity was 3050 and groups didn't change much in size. Seems like anything I shoot in my Tikkas always impresses me. I also have one in 6.5 Creedmoor. They both shoot great with nothing done EXCEPT replace the trigger spring. I shot 2 groups @ 200 yards and groups were very impressive, best one was 1.008. Scope was Leupold VX2 4-12 set @ 12 power. When I first started reloading back in the early 60's (I'm a dinosaur) 4320 was a very popular powder. I used it in my 30/06 which was the only rifle I had back then. Any body using it? ALL of the older IMR powders worked great then, and still work great now... that's why they are still on the shelves and still sell well with little fanfare...everyone seems to go for the new latest greatest... me, along with the old age mold, I tend to use stuff that has been reliably working for decades, instead of trying to re invent the wheel for something a hair better.... but then a Tikka... if you could ignite sand.. I bet a Tikka would even turn in tight groups with that... "Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC “Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Re: IMR 4320 Jackie_Treehorn #15261835 09/27/20
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,695 Southern Oregon USA S Seafire Campfire 'Bwana
Seafire Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 42,695 Southern Oregon USA	Originally Posted by Jackie_Treehorn Originally Posted by RCflash right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find, It's been discontinued. Well this news sure put a hole in the bottom of my canoe this morning... That put a fast end to having a good day starting out.... I hate the way Hodgdon ( being the chief powder company anymore) keeps canceling powders that have worked and been around for decades upon decades, so they can cater to the " gotta used what's the newest and most improved, latest greatest powder" crowd.... Fairwell 4320.. you've always been a great product.... bet 3031, 4064 and IMR 4895 and 4198 are on the chopping box coming up.... damn it.. it won't matter if Biden and KalamamaDingDong get the keys to the White House... They'll have Bozo O'Rourke out confiscating our guns anyway.... "Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC “Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15261885 09/27/20
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,996 Cave Creek, AZ Blacktailer Campfire Tracker
Blacktailer Campfire Tracker Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,996 Cave Creek, AZ	Sorry to hear it is being axed. IMR 4320 has been my goto since I started loading in the 60's. Still use it almost exclusively in the 308, with lighter bullets in the -06 and the 375H&H and anything else that needs it. This powder situation is really beginning to suck. I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor

IC B3

Re: IMR 4320 Mule Deer #15263580 09/27/20
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 10,484 Western NY State 22250rem Campfire Outfitter
22250rem Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 10,484 Western NY State	Thanks for the tip concerning the 4895's & Varget. Got plenty of IMR-4895; Like an almost full one pounder, a full one pounder and my unopened 8 lb. jug, and over a pound of Varget, and a pound of H-4895. Still gonna miss that 4320 when mine runs out. Last time I bought 4320 was during the Obama administration when it was scarce and I got lucky and scored a few pounds.

Re: IMR 4320 22250rem #15263711 09/27/20
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,049 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna
Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,049 Banana Belt, Montana	I still have a decent supply of 4320, partly because I try to keep at least some of most rifle powders on hand (you don't want to know how many). It's a good powder, but when powder companies discontinue one it's almost always due to one reason: It's not selling well enough for the manufacturer to spend the time change over their production line to make more. This can be blamed on "too many" newer powders, but despite what many older handloaders prefer to believe, many of the newer powders are indeed superior, often in more than one way. Which is why they sell better--especially among target shooters, who burn far more powder than the average plinker/varmint shooter/big game hunter. One additional comment: I have a big collection of old gun magazines and books, and believe it or not some contain complaints about how popular powders were being discontinued--due to new-fangled powders like the IMR powders DuPont in the 1930s--which included 4320. I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future, but it has a burn-rate that's not as "duplicated" by newer powders. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15263758 09/27/20
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 10,445 north central PA S shootinurse Campfire Outfitter
shootinurse Campfire Outfitter S Joined: May 2005 Posts: 10,445 north central PA	I've found RL15 to be a good substitute in the .250 and .300. "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15264199 09/27/20
Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,707 Ontario, Canada S Steve Redgwell Campfire Outfitter
Steve Redgwell Campfire Outfitter S Joined: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,707 Ontario, Canada	I am usually concerned with accuracy over velocity so... Last fall, when I was finishing up the 30-303 Book (a 303 British, but using a .308 barrel) I noticed that almost all the accurate groups were shot with newer powders. I tried the old standbys too, but most could not match the latest burns. IMR 4320, a good powder for 308s, 303s and several other mid sized cartridges, managed to hang on with a couple of loads. 4320 and some other old timers, were eclipsed by Varget, IMR4451, Re 15 and Re 17. While Varget and Re 15 aren't brand new, they are much younger than IMR 4320, 3031, 4350, etc. If you have a cartridge that likes 4320, you either have to buy up 4320, if you can find it, or start experimenting with the newcomers. Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.com Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15264234 09/27/20
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,448 State of Jefferson T T_O_M Campfire Outfitter
T_O_M Campfire Outfitter T Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,448 State of Jefferson	My only use for 4320 was for colony varmint cartridge ... .17 Remington and .220 Swift. My swift load was a fireforming load with the 52 grain Speer hollowpoint around 3300 fps that shot quarter inch groups. In the .17 I used 25.2 grains under 25 grain Remington hollowpoints and somewhat frequently had groups fall under 1/10th of an inch out of a factory 700 BDL. I'd dropped a 2 ounce 40x match trigger w/o a safety into the action and stuck it in an HS precision stock for a 1.25" cylindrical barrel .. yep, that one was free-floated. Good times. Sure wasn't a gun I let anyone else shoot. That load is apparently a good bit beyond book maximum now but it was book, top end, when I worked up to it. I have a few pounds on hand 'cause I do plan to do another .17 Remington. There are other good powders, but only one that is truly spectacular: 4320. Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip. Here be dragons ...

Re: IMR 4320 Mule Deer #15264244 09/27/20
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,226 fremont Campfire Regular
fremont Campfire Regular Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,226	Originally Posted by Mule Deer I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future I hope this is not true. Love it in a 30-30, 7-30 Waters and 375-284. Murphy was a grunt.

Re: IMR 4320 Dirtfarmer #15264483 09/28/20
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,087 Wasilla, Alaska L ldmay375 Campfire Regular
ldmay375 Campfire Regular L Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,087 Wasilla, Alaska	I agree on the sad to hear about being discontinued. I use it for my 416 Ruger. Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer Originally Posted by Jackie_Treehorn Originally Posted by RCflash right now I am hoarding what 4320 i have since lately its hard to find, It's been discontinued. Didn't know. I guess my two cans will have to last a while... DF

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15264995 09/28/20
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,996 Cave Creek, AZ Blacktailer Campfire Tracker
Blacktailer Campfire Tracker Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,996 Cave Creek, AZ	What MD said is true. Folks who shoot competition burn far more powder than hunters. Last time I bought an 8lb was in the 80's when I used to run H4895 in my M1 for High Power. Just checked my inventory and have over a pound of 4320. With the few cartridges I use it in with loads long since developed, it will last me the rest of my hunting life. Now if I can just find a pound of RL26... I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor

Re: IMR 4320 fremont #15265226 09/28/20
Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 9,053 Siskiyou Co.,Jefferson State F flintlocke Campfire Outfitter
flintlocke Campfire Outfitter F Joined: Dec 2014 Posts: 9,053 Siskiyou Co.,Jefferson State	Originally Posted by fremont Originally Posted by Mule Deer I suspect IMR3031 might be discontinued the future I hope this is not true. Love it in a 30-30, 7-30 Waters and 375-284. My big metal keg of 4320 is just about gone so I tried Norma 201, almost a dead ringer for 4320, maybe a tad better accuracy, but oh boy, try finding 201 in my part of the world. Similarly...Fearing the untimely demise of 3031, I started experimenting with Hodgdon Benchmark,(supposedly a 3031 substitute) with less than stellar results thus far...target loads in .308, hunting loads in the 8x57, light bullets in the Roberts. But my methodology is lacking, all I did was try to duplicate velocity of my existing 3031 loads of proven accuracy. The jury is still out. I suppose the old farts complained about 3031 when it was introduced to replace HiVel #2. Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.

Re: IMR 4320 wyomike #15268841 09/29/20
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 23,052 Annapolis, Md. G gnoahhh Campfire Ranger
gnoahhh Campfire Ranger G Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 23,052 Annapolis, Md.	And to think I was well stocked with all my beloved favorites. Now it appears I gotta start hoarding 3031, for it is the darling of the small pile of .30-30-class rifles I have, for both jacketed and cast hunting loads. My last scare was with SR-4759, probably the all time greatest powder for cast bullets. Through diligent (and sometimes hardnosed) effort I countered Hodgdon's discontinuance of it, and am sitting on what should be enough for the rest of my days. I'm the odd man out, re: 4320. I don't recall ever buying/using any. Not purposefully, just the way it panned out. Weird. Some days I wonder if I were better off selling the whole darned lot of my smokeless rifles and replace them with all black powder cartridge guns, and buy a keg of powder and be done with it. "You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty

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