Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Flintlock Q&A

Lot of conversation on a good topic. Guessing that most plinkers have a learning curve to deal with when picking up their first flinter. I surely did.

.45 cal that I shoot with a .010" patch and .440 ball. A .015 patch actually shoots a little better, but requires a ball starter which I eschew out in the field. Heaviest charge used to date has been 60 grains, but 50 is where is shines. 4f in the pan, 3f in the barrel. Good advice above re: feeding the flashpan. Don't filler-up.

Lock time is the educator. Part of the package IMO and if one wishes to succeed they simply have to adapt. Secret to success it found in the follow thru after the trigger gets jerked. It is the single most important a rookie has to learn.

Though not a newbie with muzzle loaders I learned more about offhand shooting with the thing than anything else. Started on the bench and was far from happy with the results. Came back for round 2 with mild apprehension and half way thru that finally took it off the bags and stood up. Well, it got better and before I went home realized the significance of the delay between trigger break, klatch, spark-poof-boom. OK, what good is a boring gun, hey? Somewhere around round 4-5 I started getting my ducks in a row.

50 yards, offhand, and I can do this 24/7 these days. The high 1 o'clock hole was from a clean bore, and the both targets were shot back to back. Group on the right is about 1.5".

Good stuff Dan.

As an aside, my uncle has an old kit “Kentucky” rifle he put together back in the way back. It’s a .45 cap lock and actually has a maple stock with some fiddleback in it. When he built it the instructions included a section on filing the sights in for your chosen load. Not knowing any better he zeroed it for a .440 ball over 60 grains of 3FG. He’s shot several deer with it and I killed one with it when I was a kid. All of them were one shot and down affairs. That little bitty ball is deadly even when pushed with a light charge of powder.

This was going to be my first suggestion. I think most guys starting with flinters probably use way too much priming powder. I do prefer 4F, and I never use the manufactured flints unless I absolutely have to. I'm lucky to liive close enough to Track of the Wolf to get high quality supplies and professional advice there. There are definitely faster locks than Thompson or CVA. A good lock has a shorter throw, and a better frizzen. Correct adjustment of the flint in the lock makes a difference too. Good luck with your flinter.

Hey, as long as you bring the wine you are always welcome!

Generally never a shortage of libations around our camp! 😉

sure was havin a hoot w mine last saturday:

flintlocky shootin

matt avance lefty southern rifle in .50. .490 swaged hornadys, pillow tickin, goex 3f in pan and 50 g 3f main charge. half the time it works every time.

actually it works 100% of the time when i follow the edicts: sharp flint, no fouling on flint or frizzen, vent pick between shots. one thing i had learn is that you have to use ENOUGH priming powder. if you put the priming power on only one side or the other, you might miss some sparks. i fill up the pan from end to end, but i do NOT fill it to the brim.

once your subconscious figures out that the flinter is gonna go off every time bc you followed the edicts, they can really be a hoot.

oh yeah, it helped me to start off at 25 yds w the offhand flintlock shooting. over time i have gotten to shooting it at 50 offhand w increasing success. you have to leave it still thru the flash.

also it helped me not to get overgunned. the less recoil the better, at least until youre used to the firing sequence

I also agree that keeping the loads mild when practicing is a good strategy. Even just flashing the pan/dry firing is a good idea.

Back to a slow lock, maybe try adjusting the flint so it shaves, not strikes the frizzen. You can adjust the flint angle with something like a match stick under the leather.
A good flint should last dozens of shots if it is not smashing into the frizzen. If it is smashing, it will be bouncing/chattering and slow. A good shave will throw a consistent spark and will be much faster. Naturally you need good flints. Track of the Wolf is probably the best place to get them.

A T/C or Lyman lock are pretty slow compared to aftermarket locks. A RPL replacement lock is usually much faster. You will have to shave some wood behind the lock, but it is pretty easy for most guys with patience. Naturally since the rifles are mass produced, the flash hole may not line up well, but the only way to see that is trying. I have a RPL on a TC, and is is significantly faster, and more reliable. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-05-F

Having hunted for years with TC flintlocks and then a Lyman...and then making the change to custom guns....I have a little exposure to these things.

Factory guns are capable of adequate ignition. They will never be the equal of custom guns, but that's not the intended goal of the production guns.

A prolonged delay on a Lyman is not usual. At least, if my perception of what the OP is describing is correct.

I have three custom flintlocks, two with Chambers locks and one with a Davis lock. My TC Renegade will never be their equal for speed of ignition, but it killed a bunch of deer with me, and it was useable. Lyman's shouldn't be significantly different, from the 3 or 4 Lyman's I've messed with. Older ones are generally considered better than newer ones, too.

That said, loading procedure will have some influence on this, as will priming procedure. I've noticed some folks load a gun and then dig around in the vent with a pick like they're digging for lost treasure. Not only should this not be necessary, it's actually detrimental. You're digging main charge powder AWAY from the vent, making ignition tougher to accomplish.

The advice to get a White Lightnin' or internally cone the existing vent is spot on. The closer you bring the main charge to the pan, the better. In my custom 62-cal rifle, the breech has a drilled vent (no liner) and is internally coned. I can literally SEE my main charge through the vent, and the ignition is superb. I killed a whitetail doe with that rifle last January at 105 yards, actually.

If you're lighting the pan, you're lock is getting that far in life. It's now down to a vent issue....or a prime issue. As noted, if the prime is deeper than the vent hole, you're gonna get a delay. Also, don't get into the practice of "banking" prime to the outside of the pan. I believed that for a while, and it doesn't really help anything. It hurts, actually, because your ideal prime situation is about 1/3 of a pan, spread evenly across the bottom of the pan. This "catches" the most spark and get the pan going in its entirety much faster.

Even with a production lock/gun, the delay should be quite short.

I’ve noticed a few times that I’ll get instant ignition like a cap lock or faster. But it’s not been repeatable or consistent. I’m guessing it’s got more to do with my priming technique than anything. I need to get back out and shoot it some more and fiddle with the priming method until I get it figured out. I know it’ll never be the equal of a custom but I’ve killed deer with a recurve bow so I should be able to master this at least adequately if I can achieve some semblance of consistency.

Thanks again guys

Custom stuff is just better, but it's not required to bag game. A Lyman, unless something is grievously wrong with it, will take game just fine if used properly.

I wouldn't necessarily say shooting a recurve will mean much of anything when it comes to shooting a flintlock. I've seen flintlocks humble some folks who are otherwise superb shooters.

It's really a totally different beast.

The most effective trick I’ve figured out over the years with a recurve that I think would apply to the flinter is to get so close you almost can’t miss. That’s all I meant

I had a little spike buck jump the lock on a pretty fast Northwest trade gun once at no more than 15 feet! I was practically right on top of him in a live oak watching game trail. I swear I don’t know how he did it. 😁

But he did. 😁

absolutely 100% agree with this!

1). Check the level.of spark your lock generates. With unloaded, unprimed rifle, turn off the lights ( dark room). Frizzen down, pull back hammer to full cock. Pull trigger and observe sparks. If they are white and multi-branched, you have a frizzen with good high carbon steel. If the sparks are straight and orange/yellow, you have a low carbon fence. White sparks are much hotter than yellow/orange. White hot branched sparks showered onto a priming charge ignites it very quickly. Cooler temp straight orange/yellow ignite priming charge poorly.

It has been decades since I bought it, but there used to be a muzzle loader supply store than offered high carbon replacement frizzens for both T/C and Lyman. I think they were located in Ohio. (Not sure if they are still in business. ). It made a huge difference to my t/c flinter, (with Green Mountain barrel). My other locks (L&R, large Siler match) have high carbon fences/frizzens which spew out nice white hot branched sparks for excellent detonation of priming charge. Some muzzleloading gunsmith can put a high carbon sole or face on the frizzen for good sparking. Find one and get it done. No spark, no boom.

2). Sharpen your flint. File the lower 1/4" of a 3 penny nail flat on two sides until it is about 1/16" wide. Then, file the 1/16" edge down about 1/32 to 1/16" to form a right angle (90 degrees) step down ledge along the full 1/4" face of the 1/16" wide section. With unloaded, I primer rifle, place the right angle notch on the edge of the mounted flint in the lock. Tap the nails head gently. It will spawl off a piece of the leading edge of the flint. Reposition the notched nail about 1/8" further along the flint, and tap it again. Repeat until the entire leading edge of the flint is freshly sprawled. This is now a sharp glint for best sparkling ( if your frozen is made of good high carbon steel). The shallow the ledge notch, the less flint will be sprawled off which extends flint life.

Warning! Doing this will make your flint scalpel sharp, as it speaks along natural lines for the sharpest edges. Similar to freshly snapped musician knives and scalpels. Watch your fingers, you can easily cut them when priming the pan. A very sharp flint throws the most sparks, for best primer powder ignition (if you have a good high-carbon frizzen.

3) try flint position of "flat side up" and " flat side down.". Some just spark better one way or the other.

4). properly position flint in jaws. With unloaded, unprimed rifle , place flint in jaws of hammer clamp. Put frizzen down. Pull hammer back to 1/2 cock. Loosen jaw screw to allow moving flint until the sharp leading edge of the flint is just off the fence. Tighten hammer jaws to secure flint.

5) consider back-boring the touch hole liner. This makes it thinner, and positions barrel powder closer to the touch hole foe quicker ignition from pan flash. Use 1/8 to 3/32""+ diameter drill bit from inside of the removed touch hole liner, to leave about 1/16" thick touch hole liner wall. When you load the barrel with powder, tap the side of the barrel to allow powder to work into the back-bored area of the touch hole liner for close proximity to touch hole/flash.

6). Touch hole should be level and centered with front/back sides of the pan, where the pan abuts up against the barrel/touch hole liner. As stated before in other posts, keep the pan primer charge away from the touch hole, to avoid a slow fuse ignition. You want the priming charge flame to jump into the touch hole for quickest ignition. A hunting technique is to quickly twist the rifle quickly with you wrist to throw the frizzen-covered powder charge away from the touch hole, to account for possible positioning against the touch hole. In match competition, it is pretty easy to keep the initial position of primer powder away from the touch hole (maybe1/8"? away) and also almost full length across the pan.

7). Try to find some FFFFg (4f) powder for the pan. 4f is quicker than 3f. I tried some 7f ( yes, FFFFFFFg), it was supposed to be lightning quick. I did not notice it being any faster ignition than 4f as priming powder. DO NOT attempt to grind 3f powder into finer particles. Very dangerous. Big no no!

A properly tuned flint lock is just as fast as a cap lock. A flinter that goes "klatch- boom" is not tuned.

Flints
#5 for t/c
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/178/1/FLINTS

T/c frizzen
https://rmcoxyoke.com/product/tc-replacement-frizzen-please-read-description/

Since you bought the rifles for a song, consider a quality RPL-L&R complete replacement (essentially drop in) flintlock action (~$185) for the t/c flinter rifle. It is a MUCH better lock, with excellent geometry, build quality, and materials.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/759/1/LOCK-LR-03-F

Many enjoyable hunts with a 54 cal. TC Renegade over the years. The only times I can recall not getting ignition was when the powder was damp or when it was raining or snowing.

Tag. Good info here...

Always wanted to put a sling on mine, never will.

I carry mine with my right hand between the lock and rear sight,keeping
the lock under my forearm and the barrel down in bad weather.

Guys I hunt with have slings and rain or snow melt runs down the barrel
to the lock. They have a bunch more trouble than I do.

If ye affix a sling to ye long gun, ye shall find it handy for fending branches and dragging deere. If it be wet, and if ye sling be Properly attached, ye shall carry it down side up, with thee muzzle forward and down and ye locke tucked betwixt upper arm and ribs. If ye have not a proper English waterproof pan as ye should, ye can seal the rim of ye pan with a bit of beegum, which shall not vex ye priming charge.

I use a cows knee when needed.