Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General .30-30 for elk

While thinking about this years coming deer and elk seasons I was considering what rifles and loads I would choose for the different areas I intend on hunting. I have a pre 64 M94 winchester that I love to hunt with and thought why not for elk in the 100 yd and closer shots. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I use to think they are not adequate, but compare the ballistics to a 44 mag that a lot of folks use in hand guns to down elk. If you can keep from trying to stretch out the distance and are confident in your ability, they sure won't bounce off an elk.

About the only trouble think you might have is if a big old bull or even a big cow comes running past you after it has just climbed a mountain or been shot at and the adrenaline has been worked up, It might not go down quickly, if you don't get a god shot placement. An elk walking around, not spooked or all riled up from rut is not all that hard to kill.

It might be a difffernt story if you have paid for a $3K hunt and traveled across the country to do so.

My last bull elk fell to a .30-30. It was about a 65 yard shot in the dark timber. He was facing me, uphill, at a slight angle. The bullet entered the front of his chest and angled towards his off side rear leg. He hit the ground hard and never even quivered. One shot kills are nice on bull elk, but I don't expect them. The old .30-30 will do just fine as long as a proper bullet is put in the right place, and the distance isn't too great.

Gary

MY GOD MAN!!!

Your not really gonna do this, you just wanted to get me all worked up right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, i think it would work great with careful shot placement. But think seriously about getting some handloads worked up for the thing. Nosler makes a 165 grain roundnose partition for the 30-30 that im pretty sure would hold together a bit better and drive a little deeper than your deer loads. John Barness ("Mule Deer" on the board) talks about it for elk in my nosler manual. I think the factory loads are pretty much designed for deer size animals, and id just be afraid the bullet might tend to fragment if you had to drive through any bone. Remember, that bull might be 4x as big as the deer you have killed in the past. With hide and bones 4x as tough and a chest cavity twice as deep.

I think it would be cool to get a bull with your fine 30-30. Just dont tell my dad i said so. Especially dont tell your dad i said so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gary, what loads where you using and how did they perform? I assume you were able to recover the bullet. What condition was it in? And did you go through any bone? I'll only attempt this if I feel its a pretty safe venture. I havn't lost a big game animal yet and don't want to take any more chances than need be.

Thanks

SeanD,

I'm concernd about you. The very idea of hunting anything larger than a bunny with anything smaller than a 300 win mag is just not your style. What are you doing on the lever action forum anyway? You don't own any of those old fashioned antiquated lever guns. The actions probaly woudn't stand up to your handloads. We need to get that new Whelen up and running so you can get back to your old self.

I grew up on my Grandad's ranch in Parks County, Wyoming. Grandad didn't read much and he never knew that his 30-30 was considered inadequate by so-called experts for elk hunting. I didn't read much as a kid, so I was equally ignorant.

I killed my first two elk with Grandad's long barreled Winchester with the flip up tang sight. Winchester SUPER X 170 gr SilverTips were used. Each bull req'd two shots but they didn't get away.

My Dad used a 300 Savage all of his adult life. He was blind in his "shooting eye" from a detached retina when a horse kicked him as a child. Dad had a smith custom build a side mount scope outfit so he could aim with his left eye and shoot right handed. My Dad killed a whole lot of elk in his life with that rifle and many of them were at the distance from his muzzle that his bullet speed was travelling like a 30-30 bullet much closer.

I hunt elk with a BAR Sporter in .308 simply because the 30-30 does not have the "reach" I prefer. But at distances under 175 yards, the old 30-30 still slays elk each and every Fall. Don't think its a wounder. This old cartridge is a very good choice for most big game hunting when the distance is not too great and the first bullet can be placed directly into both lungs.
Buck

Matt,
I used a Hornady 170 and 3031. Couln't recover the bullet, it was in the "gut pile" somewhere. I was on a fairly steep slope and had a little bit of trouble just getting him gutted and quartered. I always like to try and find the bullet (bullets) if possible to see how they look - but just wasn't able to this time. No major bones were encountered. I go for lung/heart shots with this combination.

Gary

Hello from SW Montana,

I have been hunting elk & deer here since I was 12 (1968) except for a short time that I lived in Alaska. I have shot all of my elk or deer with a 30-30 or a 303 savage. I have many other rifles including flat shooting magnums but it get much more enjoyment out of the older lever actions. The 30-30 or 303 will do fine on elk if you practice so you are sure of shot placement and don't try to extend their range.

Sharps

Welcome to 24hour Sharps,

I have taken a fair number of deer with the 30 30 and have always been happy with the outcome. What I've been wondering about are specific bullets people have used on elk and how they performed. I feel pretty good about accuracy and my ability to get that rifle close enough to the target. If I use my 30 30 for elk I want to pick the best load for the job.

Always happy to listen

Use the 170 grain in the 30-30 - that is about all I use for all my 30-30 loads. for the 303 savage I use 180 and 190 grain.

An elk ain't a deer, first of all. Secondly, mos' hunters shoot farther with a rifle than they will try with a revolver. There is no doubt in my mind that a 30-30 will kill a elk unner the right circumstances. It is also a fact that during the demise of the herds in the early part of the 20th century, many an' ol' timer lost elk with poor 30-30 shots, an' some not so poor. My question is "why risk it"? Are elk not valuable to you? Are you too broke to buy an' '06? If you have to have a lever, why not use a 358? Usin' 30-30s on elk is a thing of a glutonous, non-conserving, bygone hunting heritage. Just like with DDT and various vermin poisons, we know better. Nobody starts out on the trail to wound an elk, and mos' never know they did it for sure. I like elk too much to say go ahead an' float yer boat. Get your priorities right, man! of course, this is just my opinion an' really don't mean nuthin' in the grand scheme of things, so nobody should take offense....... 'xsept those feable minded no-accounts thet shoot good animals with puny cartridges an' figur one or two wounded elk ain't worth the price of a new rifle.

30-30 for elk

muleskinner, i'm not picking on you, just clicked the reply button at your name.

i do agree with you muleskinner. i also have a question. i have read all kinds of talk on enough gun for elk. what i have found is this. no one can tell what is the one cartrige for elk. i do have a savage 99 in .308 is that enough ? if, and only if, one was within 50 yards of the said mr. elk or mrs. elk and had a 30-30 ? naw, best not set up a rare case when the above mentioned elk couple are in close. and the moon and stars were lined up just right and the old lucky charm was working and wore those favorite socks, type hunting days. naw, best not go there.

i do think of elk as the horse of the deer type family.

ok hunting freinds i agree with muleskinner get mo' better gun ! i still need to know what size ?

99savage308

keep the powder dry

get mo' better gun

FIRST; ELK AND MOOSE ARE DEER
SECOND; he didn't say he didn't want to buy a more expensive rifle.
Three; the .30/30 will kill elk.
Four; would you please take that UK logo off your posts, people may begin to think everyone from Kentucky is an opinionated, bull headed ass?!

30-30 for elk

hey, terry8mm,

man, a 30-30 will kill king kong also.

muleskinner was talking 'bout killing elk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

and to think that U of K kicks arse when it comes to basketball tsk tsk tsk ..muleskinner man that had to hurt what terry8mm said i know i was hurt. hahaha

keep up the good posts this is way toooooo cool dudes.

99savage308

keep the powder dry

get mo' better gun

Muleskinner makes an excellent and important point. The question, ".30-30 for elk?" involves not only considerations of terminal ballistics and the ever-elusive "killing power," but also ethics. As hunters, we owe it to the animals that we hunt to pursue them with weapons that will dispatch them without needless suffering. An elk is also a very valuable natural resource, providing a great deal of food and hide for a hunter and his/her family, that we should do everything we possibly can to avoid wasting. Wounded, lost, and soured elk also reduce hunting possibilities for all of us. There are no superfluous elk!

That a .30-30 will kill elk is beyond dispute. Scores of thousands - perhaps many more - elk have been killed with well-held .30-30's over more than a century. That a well-constructed "premium" bullet of the Partition or bonded core type, from any one of a number of good manufacturers, "heavy" in weight for the cartridge (i.e 170-grainers most typically), is the best way to go is also rather well established. That the range should be kept short and shots directed into the "boiler room" are also elements of received wisdom.

It seems reasonable, given those caveats, to answer the question that started this interesting thread in the affirmative. Use the .30-30 if you are committed to it, but use it with eyes wide open to its limitations and with the willingness to pass up chancy shots.

But ... Is there really enough margin of reserve with the .30-30 to make its use truly ethical? Some will say, "Yes!" and I very much respect their opinions and their expertise. Those who stalk close and aim true with their .30-30's and .32 Specials are entitled to high praise. Far better such elk hunters than the gentry with the latest Thunderblaster Magnum who open up an ill-considered bombardment at long range and trust to a reserve of power to make up for want of hunting skill! Indeed, I also know of First Nations hunters in the Canadian North who will use the .30-30 on moose! But they are prepared, after shooting, to boil the billy and then start tracking.

For myself, living where an elk-hunting trip is a rare (and expensive) experience (a point already made in this thread) and knowing that "perfect" shots at elk are hard come by, a greater reserve of power, in addition to stalking carefully and taking only good shots, seems correct. If I blow it and wobble slightly off the point of aim or if the elk moves as the trigger is squeezed, I would prefer a bigger, heavier bullet, moving with more momentum than the .30-30 - fine as it is for its usual purposes - can generate.

This is a lever guns forum. Most lever guns are best at short and moderate ranges (though of course there are those that will "reach out"). I think a good lever is a superb weapon for hunting elk in heavy timber and thick cover. There, my experience - which is doubtless less than many on this board - teaches me that the old doctrine of the heavy bullet with "punch" and better - not infallible, I realize - ability to buck brush is what works best. I think that, with lever guns, we are largely talking about that sort of elk hunting - not long-range shooting in big clearings and "parks."

Therefore, among the old clasic lever cartridges, I personally prefer, to the .30-30, for elk hunting purposes, the .348 Winchester in the Model 71, the .35 Winchester and the .405 Winchester in the Model 1895 Winchester, and the .45-70 in Marlin 1895's and Winchester 1886's. Among the modern lever rounds, the .358 Winchester (as mentioned above) is a fine choice, as are the .450 Marlin, the .444, and the various "Alaskan" wildcats. The recent Miroku Model 1895 Winchesters in .270 and .30-06 can also be rechambered and rebored to .35 Whelen - another excellent elk cartridge. These powerful cartridges help - just help, not make anything and everything reasonable - if a quartering shot is a necessity or if bone is struck. None of them represent the terrific, sharp recoil of the big magnums (assuming a properly stocked .405!). The .35 Winchester, in particular, is a forgotten treasure.

Good luck to each and every elk hunter, using his or her chosen weapon! I believe that we can all agree that the weapon, while very important, is of less importance than the hunter's set of skills, judgement, and willingness to hunt hard and carefully.

May elk hunting endure to the Day of Judgement!

Redcoat


P.S. And I thought Muleskinner's "UK" stood for United Kingdom! Live & learn!

My dear Muleskinner,

After reading your spirited response to my proposed question I feel the need to reply. I notice you make mention of shot distance in your responce. In my original post I made clear that in the use of a .30/30 my shots would be kept to under 100 yds. I generally consider that my limit. Not because I can't hit a target at a greater distance but because getting close is what makes it exciting to me.

Why risk it you ask? I wouldn't consider it anymore of a risk than using a .300 mag at 300yds. Using a larger caliber will not make a bit of difference if you can't put the bullet where it belongs. I believe someone who thinks that they can reach out because they a big gun is likely to wound more game than someone goes out with the understanding in mind that this hunt will have to be close and bullet placement is of the utmost importence.

I've seen what a poorly placed '06 can do to a nice three point. That hunter took a poor shot at moving target at too great a distance. Fortunately I was there to get within 40 feet of that buck and put a bullet through its neck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Sparing what was left of the meat.

So settle down Muleskinner I was just asking an innocent question. I would never take a chance that I didn't feel was more than just a little in my favour.

Sorry folks,
I normally try not to be rude but, I get "riled" about some issues.
You can tell someone you don't agree with them, without being an ass, as I was.

Everyone is not an incompetent boob, as obviously "Skinner and others that hunt and deal with guns for a living , have had to put up with and babby sit over the years.

I personally, scouted my own hunting sites and took a nice muley and elk the first year I hunted Colorado, with a recurve bow.

After a couple of trips I decided to try gun season to avoid some of the "nature lover" types that seemed to follow me everywhere.

The day I killed my first elk with a rifle (with my old .30-30 Marlin) there was a perfectly sighted, m70/.300 mag behind the truck seat, that I didn't feel I need in the "blowdown" hell hole I was hunting.

I never did"blood" that rifle, traded it on a Browning shotgun.


My point, just because someone doesn't shoot the same rifle with the same scope as someone else, doesn't make them an idiot or a free target for flaming.

lecture over, mea culpa

Things were different back when I was kid hunting with Grandad in the Bighorns of north central Wyoming. We hunted on Grandad's leased grazing lands from the Forest Service. No one else hunted there because 4 wheelers had not been invented yet. Modern affordable air travel was in its infancy. Trains did not stop anywhere near our hunting grounds.

The elk herds were not spooky like they are now. Currently, archers get them spooked a full month before rifle season opens.

Ranchers now "rent" their leased grazing lands to hunting clubs from back east. Plenty of elk hunters in the Bighorns in 2002 and beyond.

In conclusion, the 30-30 is a very good big game hunting cartridge. But it does not have the reach I need for my elk hunting. Times have changed and I changed with them. I use a BAR in .308 and I generally shoot twice before the animal topples over. This super accurate cartridge is deadly out to 300 yards or so.

Most of my cousins in Wyoming hunt elk each year with 30-06 or 7mm MAG rifles. These are good choices because of their "reach". Your 30-30 will let you down someday if the only shot at a bull you get is beyond its ideal effective range.
Buck

Your 308 will let you down someday if the only shot at a bull you get is beyond its ideal effective range.