Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Question for JB re: Barnes bullets

John,

Not really sure how to ask without sounding like a doofus, but i'll try!

If TTSX and LRX bullets are so much better (I believe they are) than the non tipped versions, why bother making the non tipped versions? It seems to make sense to me that tipped versions outsell non tipped versions by a wide margin! I'm sure they still sell quite a few, but at some point do you think they will be phased out?

Thanks for your response in advance!

Elk Country

I suspect part of it may be short magazine boxes in some rifles. The plain TSXs will often fit in shorter boxes, while still providing plenty of bullet shank to be held by the case neck.

I also thought maybe the plain TSXs might be a little less expensive, which would appeal to some hunters, but just checked a website I order from often, and usually the tipped and non-tipped versions of the same caliber/weight are the same price. And with one popular weight in .30 caliber, the Tipped TSX is actually a dollar less per 50-bullet box!

Maybe Sierra will make them all with green tips now!

Sierra would do well to leave the design stuff to Barnes folk....

Directly from the Barnes website:




I'm not paying extra for nor spending the time to work up new loads just to have plastic tips that don't add enough BC in the same bullet weight to make a difference. Leave "my" bullets alone please. 85/243, 100/257, 140/277, 120/284, 200/308, 270/375.

Some shooters remove the tips in order for the rounds to fit in short mag boxes.

Being "slightly OCD" (:)) I like the "idea" of the front part of the TTSX having a bigger hole and a tip that helps expansion. I also like the "idea" of the LRX TTSX having slightly softer petals, again, insuring positive expansion. Now, I have "heard" of the older Barnes X to TTSX failing, but have never experienced but "2" times, both still ended with dead critters. First was a Black Hawaiian ram I shot in Texas, maybe 40 yds with a "new" 100gr TSX from a 257 Wby. It hit "sideways". This can happen with any long bullet up close, it was still in the "slight yaw". (Think of watching the Tomahawk launch from a warship, very exaggerated "yaw" but you get the picture) it still screwed him up, ha. 2nd time was an 85gr XBT going 2700 from a wildcat 6x47mm (222 mag/6mm) on two jack rabbits inside of 30 yds or closer. They zipped through w/o any apparent expansion. The same bullet worked swell on 2 Axis and an Oryx! So yes I like the tips, push them fast, and have a ball! I've shot many Plains Game, a couple cow elk, seen many more shot by others using Barnes, all went well. I dare say anything man-made is subject to failure.

The 25 caliber 100gr TSX seems to be the most problematic bullet Barnes made.

I've heard that too B- I'm sure its difficult to make a small caliber bullet open right at different speeds, etc. I haven't lived/hunted Texas for awhile, but "it used to be" the 25-06 and especially the 257 Wby were very popular. Flat shooters yet "didn't tear a deer up like the 7mm Mag", heard that alot, ha.

As I pointed out, TTSXs do NOT cost "extra.." But you're right about BC; the plastic tip doesn't enhance it much.

What it does do is enhance expansion. I have a lot of personal experience with various versions of the Barnes X, and also get plenty of field reports from hunters. Have seen and heard about quite a few TSXs that failed to open, all in calibers from 6mm to .30. Have only had one report about a TTSX that didn't open--it was recovered with the tip bent sideways..

i was told Sierra bullet company is buying Barnes bullets,if that is true maybe Sierra bullets will be changing a few things on Barnes bullets in the future ?

I cannot resist this, so..

How can you tell if a TSX expands when it shoots through most critters up to and including Nilgai , elk, Red Stag, etc?

Not saying TSX always expands, just that I can never recover one from my .405 WCF . Sort of like NF bullets from the .405, most shoot through. Also, who cares if the critter dos a Bang Flop? Lots of hard cast loads do not expand, yet kill well.

Nosler makes a .308" 180-grain protected-point Partition for the same reason. It's a bit shorter than the standard 180P and the BC is bit lower, but it's the same idea for the same reason.

Allen Day used to swear by them in his 300 WM.


Okie John

OJ,
The .458 PP 300 work like a charm from my .45-90 on deer and such in the USA and on Leopard and other thin skinned African game. In the US they were factory Winchester 300 grain PP and in Africa at 2200 fps handloads with .45-90 brass. Great Bullets IMHO.

There are two ways you can tell TSXs didn't expand, both involving animals that go quite a ways. If the bullet exits, it leaves a very thin blood trail, if any, and a very tiny hole through the lungs--without the surrounding tissue damage of an expanded bullet (or a flat-nose solid, whether hard-cast or whatever).

The other way is to find the bullet. A friend found two 140-grain .270 TSXs in an eland he shot, one not expanded at all, and the only barely--about enough for the petal diameter to almost equal the bullet diameter. That involved a very long tracking job.

He goes to Africa just about every year for an extended cull hunt, and after switching to TTSXs has never had anything like that happen.

Thank you and all you said makes sense.

When and If one does not shoot through, I will keep all in mind.
Last . 405/TSX Nilgai chest organs were a mess and bullet gone into the underbrush.

Only Eland shot with one of my rifles was a 2000 pound bull that just sank to its knees dead. Seems the .338 Mag Winchester 230 grain bullet just put it to sleep and exited on the off side.

The Winchester 230 Fail Safe? If so, that was a great bullet. Killed a big Alaska bull pretty promptly with one.

Something else I hinted at in above post is the non-expansion problems I seen and heard about occurred from 6mm to .30 caliber, not with larger calibers--or .224s.

One theory about why that happens is the hollow-point of TSXs under .30 is pretty small, and may get pounded shut when recoil slams the tip[ against the front of the magazine box--and lack of recoil may be why it also doesn't occur with .22-caliber bullets.

TSXs over .30 have much larger hollow-points.

JB, that might be on the 2nd and thereafter shots but wouldn't the bullet in the chambered round be unaffected? That bullet was never slammed into the front of the mag box.

I agree. I haven't been able to get any kind of accuracy from my .257 Bob Featherweight with that bullet.

On the other hand, the 225 gr. TSX has been one hell of an elk slayer in my .35 Whelen.
Paul B.