Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 303 savage out of 220 swift brass

I was looking at the Old Western Scrounger shells the other day and noticed they are made of 303 british brass. I know you can make it out of 220 swift but what does it involve, just trim it and resize???

Every month or so, I see this question arise here on this forum.

I have done all of this...made hundreds of 303's out of 220 Swifts. You CANNOT make them out of 303 British or 30-40 Krags. I tried those and failed..

The 220/303 Savage is accurate, safe, and cost effective.

If you want the formula, write to me at
roosterf106@yahoo.com

I had so many requests that I actually pre-wrote a full description of how to do this. I can tell you, it is well worth the effort if you want to shoot that ol' 303.

rooster

Thanks Rooster, I don't know how but if you look at the bottom stamp on a box of Old Western Scrounger you'll find that they are stamped 303 british so they must have cut them down and reformed them.

mad-dog,

I have been making my .303 Savage brass from .307 Winchester for about twenty (20) years with excellent results. Since .307 Winchester brass is .029" larger diameter just ahead of the rim, so you may wish to start your reloads fifteen (15%) to twenty (20%) percent below maximum to account for the "squeezed" brass.

My process is as follows:

1. Lube the cases and the inside of the neck with Imperial Wax.
2. Full length resize. You need good lube since you're moving the neck back .234"
3. Trim the cases.
4. Deburr the primer hole.
5. Remove any lube that may remain inside the neck so that it doesn't contaminate the powder.
6. Load and go to the range!

NOTE: Each of my rifles has its own set of brass that NEVER is fired in any other rifle. I have found that .303 Savage chambers tend to be a little large, so I don't fully resize once fired brass, although I always measure converted brass after the first (1st), fifth (5th), tenth (10th) firing and will trim as is necessary.

DISCLAIMER: What works for me in my rifles may not work for you or your rifles, since the condition of your rifle and your reloading skill/technique/experience is not the same as mine.

Sincerely,

Bearrr264

The following should add a little fuel to the .303Sav brass debate:

George C. Nonte in his book THE HOME GUIDE TO CARTRIDGE CONVERSIONS lists on page 311 his method of forming .303Sav brass, quoted verbatim in the following:

"Form this case from .30-40 in the following manner: Turn rim down to .505" diameter; swedge head to .442 diameter; trim to 2.01" length; size full length; use .308" bullets."

A single load is listed: 180gr bullet w/33gr 4895 for 2005fps.

I won't say that I have tried this method since I have an ample supply of factory ammo and fired brass and have no current need to fabricate .303Sav brass. Nonte's book has had wide acceptance over the years and I don't know whether it is presently available. My book shows a copyright date of 1967 although my copy is a more recent reprint.

.30-40 brass has rim dia. of 0.545", 0.063"thick, and head dia. of 0.457".
.303Brit brass has rim dia. of 0.528, ??? thick, and head dia. of 0.452".
.220Swift has rim dia. of 0.472", 0.048" thick, and head dia. of 0.443".

.303Sav has rim thickness of 0.052". It would seem that .220Swift brass with a rim thickness of 0.048" would result in excessive headspace of 0.004" if used in .303Sav chamber. Perhaps that is not a big problem.

Rim thickness of .303Brit brass is not listed in the book hence the ??? for that parameter.

Were I to "make" .303Sav brass I would be inclined to follow Nonte's technique in light of the headspace problem which would exist with .220Swift brass.

Mad Dog:
I Have a buddy who owns three 99's in .303 Savage (wish I owned one) who doesn't reload who asked me to work up some reloads for him. He provided me with some original .303 brass and I also obtained some that had been reformed from .30-40 Krag from either Old Western Scrounger or Ammo Depot (I forget which). I loaded both cases with 30.0 gr. of IMR 3031, Remington large rifle primers and Hornady 170 gr. round nose and flat point bullets. He tells me both loads work fine, but half of the original brass cases had split necks after firing.
I also have Nonte's book and for that reason I was comfortable with using the .30-40 brass. I have some .220 Swift brass available and will email Rooster for his formula.
Also, I'm looking for a beat up 99 in 22 HP to restore. I am looking for a rifle that's mechanically sound but cosmetically screwed up. Any leads would be appreciated.


Blitzen

Thanks guys, this has all be very helpful. I've got a couple buddies on the canadian site that are sending me out some actual 303 savage brass but not enough for my liking so I will definately try to make some with your helpful hints.

Peace out, Joe

Blitzen- Restore a 99??? I don't suppose you live in Canada do ya? I might be able to locate you one! Also one on gunbroker #8236734

Mad Dog: I live in CT. Will check out the Gunbroker site. Thanks.
Blitzen

Regarding the headspace problem...Of all the re-made cartridges I've fired, I have seen no evidence of headspace issues. No backed-out primers, no cracks, no stretching. I have reloaded the brass again and again, and it functions fine.

rooster

Hi Bearrr264, I was reading your post about the .307 brass to .303 Savage and gave it a try. I am using a set of Lee dies and it didn't work because the dies are scraping up a ring of brass that won't allow the case to fully enter the die. What make of reloading die are you using? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Regards, LawMan.

LawMan,

My dies are an old set of RCBS in the pale green and black box, fourty (40) or more years old I'd guess. As I noted in my post, the .307 brass is "0.029 larger in diameter just ahead of the rim. Your dies must have a sharp edge that is peeling your brass. You might round/smooth the edge with a diamond stone just enough to take the edge off. You also need to insure that the cases are well lubed.

Sincerely,

Bearrr264

Gang,

Take Nonte's book with a grain of salt. Read the whole book, you'll find he uses a mini-lathe and industrial grade press & dies to form his brass. 30/40 and 303 British are easy to form with that setup. Otherwise, a "C" press and new, poorly finished dies will give you fits.

Head spacing on the shoulder (with neck sizing) works just as well for bottle-neck rimmed as rimless cartridges. Besides, you will find .004" difference in rim thickness between case brands and lots.

Rooster's point is that .220 Swift is as close as you get with head, rim, and length. It saves a lot of time.

Bearr,
what is the head diameter of your 303 cases made from 307 Win after several firings?

Randy

I am making 303 Savage from 220 Swift and have only fired 5 due to sizing problems. The ones that I fired have given no problems.

The sizing problems arose from my intermediate sizer being round or slightly egg shaped and butchering the case necks on expanding.

I called Lee and explained my problem requesting a 257, 270,and 308 expanders to use as a final neck diameter prior to fl resizing. Within a week they shipped them to me for a full charge of $4.50. The 308 was tapered from 201 to 306 over a full inch taper. The 270 was tapered from 220 to 275 over an 1 1/8 taper length. The 257 was tapered from 220 to 255 in .9 inch length taper.

I'm using an old Lee decapping die for the neck enlarging stage. Haven't checked yet for concentricity but the only one I have necked with these new expanders look good. In fact I went all the way with the long tapered 308 in one step and it looks good.

It will be a couple of weeks before I have time for much else. Let you know how it works for loading.

Thanks to Gerry I may have some inexpensive 303 Cases.

Will you post the ordering information for the expanders from Lee? Sure sounds like a great solution. Thanks.

Lightfoot,

The invoice under description : 90040 EASY X EXPANDERS
25 CALIBER
30 CALIBER
270 CALIBER @ price $150 W/ total of $4.50

These prices were with my ffl. Don't know if this is the regular price.

UPDATE: Using only the new longer tapered 30 caliber in the 303 Savage FL die the cases formed beautifully. All I need do is trim to length. I ran 20 new cases as fast as I could lube one, put it in the press and pull the handle.

While I normally use a Lee case trimmer, I don't have one and don't think they make the stem or whatever you call it in 303 Savage.

I will probably trim on an old Lyman Universal that I modified for a drill. I dislike using it because after you use the guide or whatever you call it, the neck needs to be resized.

I am lazy you know. Or I wouldn't have enlisted the Lee factory's aid in solving this problem.

If I can help further please let me know.

RandyS,

As you have requested, I have measured fired cases for three (3) .303 Savage rifles; a Model 1899 CD, a Model 99 H, and a Model 99 R. None of the cases has been fired more than twice, so I can't respond exactly as requested, but only to the best of my ability. The cases for the post-WWI rifles measure "0.444 and the pre-WWI rifle measures "0.446 as measured with a non-digital dial caliper. I checked the caliper prior to measuring the cases and measured them with the caliper touching the rim to insure a consistent measurement point.

I had an third (3rd) style, per Murray, Model 99 H with a very loose chamber that I subsequently rechambered from .303 Savage to .307 Winchester. It feeds and fires fine. Although it was in excellent condition, it has been d&t by a previous owner, so I didn't ruin a collectable rifle with this experiment.

Sincerely,

Bearrr264

Lightfoot,

These elongated sizers are barely long enough to work in the 303 Savage dies. When I made the original call to Lee, I was asked what die I was using them in so they could send the proper shaft length. If you are making a similar request, I would telephone and talk to a technician asking for a longer length.

The long taper puts the .o306 end of the taper almost at the top of the die. This could be a problem on different length dies.

Do you reckon they turned these out at my request? As they work, Lee should sell them as a special die for this purpose. They work well on the 220 Swift brass as well as the 303 Savage Win brass.

Bearrr264,

Thanks for the followup. I was guessing a much larger head diameter.

I'm curious how you swedge ~.03" from the head of any rifle case using normal size dies (eg, 307 to 303). I take it that you use a RCBS Rockchucker, or similar maximum duty press? I thought I would spring the frame on my Jr, so I stopped. Multiple die brands, polished dies, different lubes and lube quantity, case annealing; at best I ripped rims off trying to extract the cases...

Randy

Just got lucky and found 3 full boxes and 18 seperate factory 303 sav shells for $100 canadian. Fair price and in my country!!

Every now and then a blind bird finds a worm!!!