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Anyone hunting with a handgun? #15303530 10/11/20
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IIs there anyone here hunting big game with a handgun this season? I won no tags this year so I'll be helping two others fill mule deer tags and otherwise arm-chairing it as far as big game. I will hunt birds in November. I'm in the Great Basin area and if fortunate with tags can hunt deer, antelope, sheep or goats. There's elk here too but I'll forgo that until I have someone that can help me pack it out. I'm accumulating experience slowly. Friends have resolved if they want to hunt every year they need to go out of state. That costs a lot more.

Left to only my thoughts from the sidelines this season, I've been thinking about using a handgun for hunting light game like mule deer, pronghorn, bighorn, and mountain goats. I have not done this before. What's a good handgun setup for hunting game like that? What I have now is a full-size 357 with a red dot sight. I didn't originally acquire it for hunting. A lot of handgun hunters that I've read don't seem to think much of 357. On the other hand, some of them seem to have "little gun syndrome" or something that compels them to shoot the most massive game possible. I wonder if they do it just to prove they can do it with a handgun. For sure, I don't need a 500 S&W to shoot an antelope.

Based on experience that doesn't include shooting any game, I am still convinced the 357 will fully penetrate deer, antelope, sheep and goats with a bullet that keeps its integrity like an A-frame or XPB. It also has the same trajectory as bullets from 41, 44, 45 "Ruger-only", and 480 with similar sectional density. The difference is of course the larger calibers have more mass and therefore more momentum. They will penetrate even larger game. I don't see that as an advantage since I won't be hunting Elk, Moose, Bison, Brown Bear or African game. Theoretically, the larger caliber also produces a larger wound cavity, but the wounding mechanism of low-velocity handgun projectiles is controversial.

It seems I would probably be safe choosing any magnum bigger than 357 Magnum and after that there is probably more to be gained from the kind of gun, barrel length, optic, mount, rest and so on. I have both S&W double-actions and and Ruger single-actions. Mine are not particularly well-suited to hunting (besides being 357 or smaller, I have guns like the New Vaquero). I can group on an index card at 100 yards with my S&W with the red dot. If it was a 44, I'd be ready to go. I wonder if for longer shots, a Leupold FXII 4x28mm wouldn't be a little better. I'm not sure I'd put that on the 357 though because the barrel is only 5". I'd be afraid the objective would get fouled from the muzzle blast.

So I'm wondering if anyone is handgun hunting and what they're using. When I talked to a state fish and game field agent last year, they said they'd never encountered anyone handgun hunting. They'd no doubt met hundreds of hunters over the years and seen rifle, muzzleloader and plenty of archery, but said nobody seems to handgun hunt here.

BP-B2

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303616 10/11/20
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Are there any minimum requirements for handguns in your state?
Here in Colorado, minimums are: .24 caliber, 5" barrel length, and minimum 550 ft lbs energy at 50 yards.
As a handgun hunter myself, I would consider a .357 to be at a bare minimum caliber, if legal, and certainly not something I would consider for game larger than small whitetails.


I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303665 10/11/20
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State requirements are centerfire-only, .22 caliber or larger, and 4" barrel or longer. Those are the legal requirements. Ethical requirements are often stricter, but not so easy to codify. Lesser cartridges/barrel lengths are often going to have shorter effective ranges and/or more critical requirements for shot placement.

Have you shot deer or other medium game with a 357? What is the basis of your considering it a bare minimum?

As a handgun hunter, what do you hunt with a handgun and what handgun do you hunt with?

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303683 10/11/20
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I've spent a lotta years hunting with handguns.

Our State minimum is 700 ft/lbs and a 6" barrel, some counties only straight-wall cases I think (and that's for counties that didn't allow handgun hunting back when I was doing only that).

I've used a variety of .22s for small game, and a couple of .44s for larger game. Gravitated across the board from unscoped to scoped. The final .44 revolver is a scoped 7½" Redhawk; the other is a scoped 6" Desert Eagle (that I'm getting ready to offer up...). Never used the single shots like TCs or the Remington; just wasn't personally interested in those, but they have some advantages.

Whitetail ranges have been fairly close; I think the longest was about 75 yards. I was able to get closer to javalina...

-Chris





Last edited by Ranger4444; 10/11/20.
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303695 10/11/20
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I'm not but I have and enjoyed it.

I've hunted a Ruger Security Six, SS 4" bll....357 obviously. Only kills were snakes.

I've hunted a S W 629, Ruger 7 1/2" SBHWK, & Ruger 9 1/2" SuperRedhawk.

Killed a couple deer with the SBHWK.

Not to mention a Ruger MK I & II Targets for small game, mostly squirrels.

Have Fun and Success

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 10/11/20.

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Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303712 10/11/20
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I’ve got some experience shooting game with a handgun. I’m yet to kill a deer with one for whatever reason but I have killed pigs, turkey, coyotes, and bear with a couple different calibers. My findings suggest that the 44 Magnum lets the air out of them faster and with less drama than the 35 calibers. I have not used the 357 max but have experience with the 9mm, 38 special, and 357 mag.

I don’t use jacketed bullets, nor do I use extremely heavy weights or really high velocities. A cast bullet with a flat nose at between 1000 and 1200 feet per second has worked fine for me.

I plan to remedy the deer with a handgun situation this winter during our antlerless season. Probably use standard pressure 44 Special loads out of my 6.5” S&W. My motto is to get really close where it’s easier to make a perfect shot. Good luck

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303781 10/11/20
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Whitetail about 10 yards, 10 inch 357 contender. 158 grain jhp.

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303864 10/11/20
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Originally Posted by Western_Juniper
State requirements are centerfire-only, .22 caliber or larger, and 4" barrel or longer. Those are the legal requirements. Ethical requirements are often stricter, but not so easy to codify. Lesser cartridges/barrel lengths are often going to have shorter effective ranges and/or more critical requirements for shot placement.

Have you shot deer or other medium game with a 357? What is the basis of your considering it a bare minimum?

As a handgun hunter, what do you hunt with a handgun and what handgun do you hunt with?

Largest game I have shot with the .357 was javelinas, in Arizona- was not overly impressed with the results. Unless very well hit, they had a tendency to get away and become very hard to find!
A few years later, a friend and I bought into a lease down in S. Texas, and did a lot of handgun hunting for hogs. We eventually 'upgraded' our weaponry from .44 mags to the .454 Casull, which takes down large hogs with authority, using tough bullets.
I currently hunt game from whitetails to bison with both my .454 Casull and a pair of Ruger .480's, both of which take down game with no problems whatsoever. I think the .480 is becoming my favorite hunting handgun caliber, because of less felt recoil than the .454, the ability to handle larger bullets at lower operating pressures, and the fact that a .475" diameter bullet is already 'expanded', by default!


I'd rather be a free man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave....
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303868 10/11/20
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I suppose I have killed 15 head of game with .44's and .45's.. Mostly hogs and antelope.. Have thought of using my M 28 .357 this fall.. Just have to see how things go...


Molon Labe
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15303978 10/11/20
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Have hunted with 270 AI most recently. This season will be 45 Colt in a Ruger Hunter, 7.5”.

Also have 454, 460, 480, 475 Linebaugh.


"I used to have Bass rolling like thunder.........can't do dat no mo'."
Pinetop Perkins @ age 90
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Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15304429 10/11/20
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I have been handgun hunting for awhile. My current hunting revolver is a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter in .45 colt with Hogue rubber fingergroove grips. It sports a Nikon 2x scope. I shoot Buffalo Bore 260gr +p loads. Its very accurate. I have killed deer from 10 to 80 yards.

I also have a TC Encore SS/Syn in .243win with a 15" barrel. It has a Bushnell 2-6 on it. I shoot 90gr accubonds. Have killed deer from 50 to 140 yards.

To be honest I get more enjoyment out of using the revolver.

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15304626 10/11/20
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I usually shoot at least a deer or hog every year with a handgun and will probably do so this year too.

I generally recommend calibers over 40 with either a wide nose cast or softnosed cast, at heavier weights. They also kill well with mid magnum loads and powders without your ears ringing for two weeks.

The 357 and even the 38 Special at or beyond plus P will work fine for deer, provided the bullet is up to the task and correct shape. A handgun works with frontal area and these cartridges benefit from maximizing it a bit in solid or slightly expanding form.



Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15304895 10/11/20
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I use a handgun to hunt with at times.
I have a 309 JDJ it’s built on a TC Contender. Has a 14 inch bull barrel, barrel is a Shilen. I use a 4X scope. I like using 165 Nosler B/T less than MOA at 100 yards.

I also use a 44 mag. With this, I like the 300 grain cast bullets.
I enjoy hunting with a handgun. I’m thinking of using it this year on a deer hunt I have planned.
Take care, be safe.


Randy Cole
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#45 in 2020




Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15304910 10/11/20
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I'm planning on it this year for the first time. A friend's property. Sparsely timbered but public land nearby. Most shots 100-200 both WT and mulies. Taking my 7-30 T/C 14" with 120 SPHs over IMR3031. Weaver 2-8x handgun scope. Looking forward to it.


Murphy was a grunt.
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Bighorn] #15305209 10/12/20
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Originally Posted by Bighorn
Originally Posted by Western_Juniper
State requirements are centerfire-only, .22 caliber or larger, and 4" barrel or longer. Those are the legal requirements. Ethical requirements are often stricter, but not so easy to codify. Lesser cartridges/barrel lengths are often going to have shorter effective ranges and/or more critical requirements for shot placement.

Have you shot deer or other medium game with a 357? What is the basis of your considering it a bare minimum?

As a handgun hunter, what do you hunt with a handgun and what handgun do you hunt with?

Largest game I have shot with the .357 was javelinas, in Arizona- was not overly impressed with the results. Unless very well hit, they had a tendency to get away and become very hard to find!
A few years later, a friend and I bought into a lease down in S. Texas, and did a lot of handgun hunting for hogs. We eventually 'upgraded' our weaponry from .44 mags to the .454 Casull, which takes down large hogs with authority, using tough bullets.
I currently hunt game from whitetails to bison with both my .454 Casull and a pair of Ruger .480's, both of which take down game with no problems whatsoever. I think the .480 is becoming my favorite hunting handgun caliber, because of less felt recoil than the .454, the ability to handle larger bullets at lower operating pressures, and the fact that a .475" diameter bullet is already 'expanded', by default!



I'm surprised to hear poor results on javelina with the .357... but then I've only used .44s so can't really compare. (Actually, I took a 10mm Auto once, but didn't get a shot.)

For OP. doubt I'd want to use a .357 on whitetail, though, assuming I'd have options. It'd probably work in some (maybe even most?) cases, but I prefer shooting vitals AND breaking foreleg bones at the same time... when I can arrange a shot like that... and the .44s do it pretty well.

Sights versus distances are a "thang" when it comes to handgun hunting. Open sights work slightly better with longer barrels (I used a 9½" Single Six and a 10½" Super Blackhawk for a while)... but longer barrels are also slightly awkward for toting... and scopes and red dots can be more precise anyway, former slightly more exact for for better shot placement at slightly longer distances. And once a scope/RDS is involved, barrels probably don't need to be as long unless the cartridge needs it (as for some cartridges in a TC or XP-100).

I used to compete in metallic silhouette matches, but can't take live targets at the same distances while hunting. Don't think I've ever taken a hunting shot further than about 75 yards with a handgun, and that was an easy broadside with no obstructions like brush and so forth to thread through...

-Chris






Last edited by Ranger4444; 10/12/20.
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15305570 10/12/20
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I have a fair amount of experience with a 357 on bullfrogs, carp, and small game but none on deer.

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings is required reading, especially this part:
Quote
I have personally taken about 10 antelope and 1 mule deer with a .45 Colt. My boys have taken around 6 antelope and 5 mule deer with their .45 Colts. They use a 4 3/4" Colt SA and the handload is a 260 Keith cast at 900 fps. This load will shoot lengthwise of antelope and mule deer at 100 yards. In my estimation it kills as well as the .270, 30-06 class rifles if the shots are placed properly. If I were hunting heavier game I'd step up the velocity to 1200 fps and in extreme circumstances, (elk, hogs, bear) go to the 310 gr cast slug. This load, 310 at 1200 will go through elk like so much air.


I’m not sure what’s heavier than mule deer and lighter than elk, hogs, or bear, but those are the words of the master.

One War Department criterion that led to the 45 Colt was enough power to kill an Indian pony at 100 yards. The 45 Colt did that with a pointed 250-grain bullet at 900 fps but that was 147 years ago and bullet design has improved a lot since then. A flat-nose SWC (https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/44-mag-lyman-429421-255gr-swc-k-authentic-keith/) or LFN (https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/44-mag-lbt-280gr-lfn-gc/) is far more effective on game. I've killed plenty of deer with 44 Magnum and 45 Colt revolvers using 240-250 grain cast bullets at about 1,000 fps. I also killed one with a custom 45 Colt firing a 325-grain bullet at 1,400 fps. All of those deer were equally dead, and none ran any farther than the others.

When I started hunting with handguns in the 70s, we all wanted bullets to go as fast as possible so we'd get rifle-like trajectories and hydrostatic shock. It took about 20 years to realize that we were killing game within 50 yards so trajectory didn't really matter, and that hydrostatic shock didn't happen at handgun velocities. Then we all spent 20 years adding bullet weight to increase penetration before we realized that we weren't recovering cast 250-grain Keith SWCs. Now we're starting to realize what Mr. Linebaugh wrote above: a 260 Keith at 900 fps is all the gun that most folks need. We're also starting to realize that 40 years of shooting hot revolver loads isn't good for your wrists or your ears. 9-10 grains of Unique will get you where you need to go.

For my purposes, the 44 Magnum is a no-brainer. Factory loads range from around 1,000 fps to 1,400 fps. HSM’s 240-grain Cowboy Load does 1,150 fps from my 4” Model 29-2 and is accurate enough for deer out to 100 yards. American Eagle’s 240-grain JHP and JSP are equally accurate, they do about 1,250 fps from the same gun, and I can find them almost anywhere if an airline loses my ammo on the way to a hunt.

The 45 Colt is good if you handload, but logistics are tougher because 45 Colt revolvers and ammo are classed in four tiers:
  • Tier I = Colt SAA and clones top out at 14,000 psi. It’s easy to handload a 250-grain SWC or LFN to 1,000 fps in these guns, which will meet 99% of your needs. Factory ammo is another story—you might find something to match that handload, or you might only find a load with a pointy 180-grain bullet at 600 fps that will barely stay on a pie plate at 25 yards. Test and make careful notes if you have to rely on factory ammo.
  • Tier II = S&W Model 25 and Ruger Flat Tops, which top out around 23,000 psi. This is a 250-grain jacketed bullet at 1,100 fps, a 280-grain cast bullet at 1,150 fps, or a 318-grain cast bullet at 1,070 fps. Brian Pearce has written excellent articles about handloading to this level in Handloader magazine, most notably in April, 2007. You’ll need those articles, though, because no factory loads this ammo and loading manuals don’t cover it.
  • Tier III = Ruger New Model Blackhawks (NOT Flat Tops or New Vaqueros), Redhawks, Freedom Arms 97, and similar guns. These top out around 32,000 psi. You can buy this ammo over the counter but it can be hard to find. It’s expensive, it kicks, and it matches the hottest 44 Magnum loads with slightly less pressure. Most sources of loading data call this “45 Colt +P” or “Ruger/TC only.” These loads can destroy a Tier I or Tier II revolver, so many—but not all—of them are intentionally built too long to fit into the cylinder of an SAA or clone.
  • Tier IV = custom five-shot guns with longer than standard cylinders, which top out around 50,000 psi. These are a handload-only proposition. I had a couple of these guns built by David Clements, and they’ll move a 325-grain bullet an honest 1,400 fps.


The 45 Colt has a lot of romance but most of its advantages don’t start to pan out until you reach Tier III or IV.


Okie John

Last edited by okie john; 10/12/20.
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15305617 10/12/20
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In the past I have hunted with the 357, 41, and 44 magnums. This year I'll try the 44 Special


Safe queens should be taken out and shot!
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15305848 10/12/20
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I don't know if I'll hunt with a handgun this year or not. Probably depends on my mood on any given morning.

I have not shot a deer with a .357. I killed 4 does back in the late 80s/early 90s with a Single Six in .32 mag. Each shot was a careful setup with a good bit of waiting 'til the deer turned "just right" for the little 85 grain Hornady to get behind the shoulder raking forward into heart without risking hitting the leg or shoulder bones. All 4 were pretty decisive, deer kind of hunkered up, stood on their tip toes, went in slow circles for 15-20 seconds, then tipped over dead. I knew in advance that I could get very close shots that would be easy with a .41, .44, etc that I would have to pass on because the angle was not ideal and the little bullet didn't have the momentum to punch through a shoulder blade or front leg bone. The .357 is not much better especially with lighter bullets.

In that same general time period I shot 4-5 bucks with various .44 magnum revolvers, some with jacketed bullets, some with cast.

The closest I got to losing a deer was with a .44 and a 250 grain cast SWC. I thought I made a good shot but the deer made a run into brush and vanished. We found it after about 2 hours of looking in the POURING rain. It'd gone maybe 100 yards, maybe 25 more or 25 less. The bullet placement had been exactly what I was trying for, it just didn't do much damage going through other than making a leaky heart which lasted for 20 seconds or so of sprinting and the heavy rain washed away the blood trail ... we just got lucky and stumbled over it.

Anyway, I still handgun hunt a few times a year, just depends on the conditions. If I'm doing a long drive in the dark where I won't shoot and will spend the whole day in thick cover, then I'll probably use a handgun. If I'm going to be presented with longer, more open country shots ... even open timber ... then likely I'll grab a centerfire rifle. And competing with the handgun for those kinds of days .. I like to hunt with a muzzleloading rifle whether the season requires it or not.

If I get real serious about handgun this season, if it is sunny I may well drag out a single action .38-40 I've been loading for, 200 grain wide flat points around 1050-1100 fps should be fine. I expect the deer to run a short ways, though, so if it is raining, I'll probably grab a .44 or .454 with jacketed bullets for a bigger, and shorter, blood trail. Messes up more meat but I'd hate to lose one in the rain because I made a less than ideal choice for the day's conditions.

Tom


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Here be dragons ...
Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: HawkI] #15305994 10/12/20
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Originally Posted by HawkI
I usually shoot at least a deer or hog every year with a handgun and will probably do so this year too.

I generally recommend calibers over 40 with either a wide nose cast or softnosed cast, at heavier weights. They also kill well with mid magnum loads and powders without your ears ringing for two weeks.

The 357 and even the 38 Special at or beyond plus P will work fine for deer, provided the bullet is up to the task and correct shape. A handgun works with frontal area and these cartridges benefit from maximizing it a bit in solid or slightly expanding form.


Have you any experience shooting deer with 357 or 38 Special? Can you detail it with bullet, velocity, and result?

Re: Anyone hunting with a handgun? [Re: Western_Juniper] #15307290 10/12/20
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I didnt fire the shot, but I was right beside my friend who did. 357 Mag 180 LBT FNGC 15grs. Lil Gun.
Its been a few years, but IIRC it clocked just under 1300 fps from the 4 inch Colt barrel.
It was about 60 yards, hit the lungs, low it the chest, broadside pass through. Small doe.
Went down and couldnt hold it feet, so I ran out and finished it off with a 45 Colt.

I have done a front facing shot with a 38 Special, 158 gr. Thompson hollow point. It was a 1,000 fps load, the hollow point was pure lead with a heat treated base.
The bullet hit above the left shoulder blade was recovered in the right rear hip. It was out about 25 yards. Bang, flop.

Neither were very big deer, but both were hit well with bullets up to the task and performed well.

A couple hogs with 357 160 SWC loads that are really 38 Specials. Shoulders.



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