Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Elwood Epps Custom Rifles

I first became aware of the Lee Enfield rifles in the mid-50's, reading the adds in the American Rifleman and Guns magazine. Early on bought a No4Mk1 from one of the dealers and proceeds to put Herter's stocks on it and cut the magazine flush ala instructions in an American Rifleman article. That rifle is gone. However, what has always fascinated was the use of a one piece stock. Clyde Baker in his book "Modern Gunsmithing" explained how he did it. I then found customs by Elwood Epps in gun Digest and Handloader's Digest. I had always hoped to get one. By the time I contacted Epps, he had retired. I have a reprint of his 1965 catalog, and it reads like he was the Herters of Canada. I had hoped to get one of his rifles, however I have never seen one for sale. Just wondering does anyone on here have a custom by epps, and are they willing to show it? What was his reputation in Canada. I currently own an No4 MkII and a Santa Fe 1941 Supreme on the No4 MkI action. I'm not planning any customs at this point, delivery times take to long. Anyhow, I would enjoy seeing Epps rifles. Thanks

Ellwood had a very good reputation among shooters, but could be crusty. I am not aware of any other Canadian shop that had a catalog as big as his. When he started, private gunsmiths were the driving force behind change, progress and experimentation. Ellwood talked about revitalizing military surplus rifles - Enfields, Lee Enfields, Mausers and others, improving cartridges, etc. back when stocks and chambers were not created using equipment controlled by computers. Everything was hand fitted. He did his share of new, custom pieces as well.

Canadians had heard of Ackley, if they read the magazines or bought books. Back then, there was no television or Internet, so the world was a smaller place. Ellwood's catalog was popular for many years. Probably from the early 1950s to mid 70s. Ellwood died in the early 2000s but the business was purchased from Epps by George Winkel in the mid 1990s. His stuff comes up on auction from time to time, but the store doesn't have any original pieces. It's been too many years.

https://ellwoodepps.com/epps-ellwood-custom-krag-rifle-30-30-ackly-imp.html





The shop he started is still open, but like a lot of businesses, it has changed. I suppose it's to be expected. A lot of the clientele are into black rifles and tactical stuff. That's progress.

Evnin gang. Old Elwood had stuff that no one else had. I once was stuck with a gun in 222 I thought, wrong 222rimmed. Now what??? Elwood had cases & I was in business. He could tell ya what a good load was for whatever you were shooting & the best powder for it. He always had time for even us young whipper snappers. But ya he was crusty at times. Back then the guns were out in front of the counter & you could take them down & handle them. Just don't try the tigger out or he might yell at you & kick you out of the store. Seen it a few times. Bill out. 🐾👣🇨🇦

I think what I miss about the store is the wood stove and wooden chairs in front of the old counter. And the creaky, wooden floor. I don't smoke, but many did. There were ash trays all around too for the butts. Or they went into the stove. The older men would drop in and shoot the breeze for a bit. It was nice to just stand and listen to the chat.

All the old, wooden bins, drawers and shelves with odds and ends put on or in them. I used to search through there looking for cheap brass.

Ellwood also had Grampa's antique cartridges.

I was just in Epps yesterday. Epps conversions or builds don’t come up too often, but there are some nice pieces out there. A buddy of mine was just telling me about an Epps marked .240 Weatherby that he acquired almost 20 years ago. Says it’s a shooter! The store is different from my youth but still a great place. They could do without the angry kid with a giant wood hoops in his ears at the front counter but otherwise it’s probably one of the better shops in Ontario for knowledge, parts and service. I’ve always had good dealings with the Winkles. Whoever said the place is a black rifle shop is waaaayy off the mark. They certainly sell black rifles and parts but it’s far from the core business, which is and always has been a hunting and sport shooting shop! If you want a real Canadian original, you’d want a .303 Epps improved custom!

I used to go moose hunting with my father and grandfather in the mid 70s. One of the highlights of the trip was stopping at Epps to buy the tags. I coulda stayed there for hours looking at all the cool stuff.

Epps customs do show up here in Canada from time to time. I see them on canadiangunnutz.com.

That was me. I live nearby and am a member of the rifle club there. I did not say that it was a black rifle shop. I said a lot of the clientele are into black rifles. Times change.

When the Winkels bought Epps, they were cleaning the place up. As you can see from this picture, there are windows to the right of the entrance. Many of us never even knew they were windows! Ellwood had them painted over and had stuff piled up in front of them. The fishing section and the maps used to be on the right going in to the store. Ellwood wasn't dirty, but had a lot of clutter.

Was in there last week myself. Haven’t had a lot of dealing with them over the years and didn’t always get the best deal, but I will say they have a very fair used rifle policy and are up front about it.

https://ellwoodepps.com/customer-service#answer_buy_trade

I worked a few years for Lovett’s, and Keith Lovett, bless his soul, could horse trade. His standard tactic when someone brought a gun in and wanted to sell it to him, he’d ask what the guy wanted for it.

If the guy said “$200” and that was reasonable, Keith would say “Give me your best price under $200”. Invariably, the guy would say $150 or $175 and Keith would pay it.

But, if the guy had said “$199”, Keith would still have paid it!

Keith Lovett was a nice guy. I had many dealings with him over the years. When his store was near the hospital in that old house, he used to have barrels of surplus rifles. I bought a few from him. You couldn't argue with the price. When he moved beside the golf course, he had a pile of specials, including Coleman mantels - a bag of two for .25. I bought the whole box!

I didn't care for the store on old King, but I did get a chance to talk to him one last time a day of so before he headed to NS. He was at the store and we chatted outside for at least half an hour. I hear he died a couple of years ago. He had to be 90.

I see that Rob Wise's father just passed away at 91. Rob wise was Ellwood Epps grandson. Rob worked for Ellwood and later, opened his own place a couple of miles up the highway. Rob did my 22 K Hornet a couple of years ago. His mother was Ellwood's daughter,

https://www.orilliamatters.com/obituaries/wise-william-robert-george-2771899

Perhaps I misunderstood. That seems to be the norm now though, the newer people to shooting seem inclined to the tacticool. Which is fine because it gets them shooting. I guess I can’t blame a retail for catering to a demand. I’m a wood and blue guy though so it all goes em right over my head!

Epps has a pretty nice collection of old double rifles, too. $$$. They handle most anything there.

Steve, I worked at both locations, King St. and by the golf course. We’ve probably met.

I almost bought the place from Keith back in 2004 but didn’t. He offered it to me for a good deal, too, but I chose to spend my time and money on the one who was destined to become ex-wife #2 instead. Bad decision #146.

Gee guys, thanks for all the input, always enjoy reading background material like that. Seems like many fo those old gunsmiths were kind of crusty. They probably just got tired of listening to customers stories and wanted to get on with their work. I'll continue to enjoy reading my catalog reprint and hope someday to run across one of his rifles. However at my age chances are getting slimmer, as I really want one of his enfield conversion from two piece to one piece stock. It would probably wind up in Canada anyhow. Thanks again for the info.

I bought more than one rifle from Keith Lovett, and spent more than an hour in the old house that he had converted into the store. Was working on the Kitchener-Waterloo hospital addition around the corner from the store, and went there almost every day during lunch.

That was 1967, the same year I met Fred Breitwiser, quite a skilled Mauser-trained gunsmith who lived there in Kitchener. He built a lovely 7X57 custom for my wife on a VZ24 I got from Keith.

Did any of you know Fred?

Ted

I never met Fred Breitwiser. I wasn't really into Mausers except for some Swedes, but I got them from International.
I did have a few CZs. I never got around to fixing them up. I think you got one though !


Did you pull your VZ out of a barrel? 🙂

Fellow Forum Folks;
Good afternoon to you all, I hope this finds you all well and that your respective days were a tad brighter than it is up here today, but still no complaints for the middle of October truly.

The only Epps marked rifle I've worked on was actually built on a Mauser 98 action and was stocked with an honest but plain chunk of black walnut. The owner had been given it by her father in law, I want to say maybe as a wedding gift?

Anyways in the fullness of time she left it in a gun rack across the bars of her quad and drove between two trees..... It wasn't the first or last quad broken stock I've repaired either might I say.

Now on an "Epps type" rifle, I'll offer this.

At one point a shooting mentor of mine ended up on a multi arm trade and offered me one of them as he knew I liked "odd and interesting" arms.

It was built on a No. 4 Mk. 1 action, with the trigger redone/changed, the stripper clip guide removed, the butt socket removed so it was a one piece stock, bottom metal changed to a non removable mag and much nicer trigger guard and barreled to .25-303 Epps.

Oh, the stock was the most gorgeous piece of fiddle back maple I've ever seen, just jaw dropping really, but very, VERY white and pale, not yellow or red whatsoever.

The action had been really smoothed up a lot too, but still it was a No. 4 Mk. 1 if you know what I am saying - no disrespect intended or implied.

Likely because it wasn't good timing financially for me to pick it up, I didn't, though again as I recall it was very, very white and not exactly my taste in stocks somehow, so like as not I'd have traded it long ago by now even if I'd bought it.

It had a custom scope mount built on it as well, I want to say a side one, but it might have been sort of Mannlicher Schoenauer looking too, I'm not certain.

Thanks for twigging the memories of a good buddy now long gone who used to come up with the most interesting stuff. May we all be so blessed as to have such friends.

All the best to you all this fall.

Dwayne

About 15 years ago, we were returning from a trip to Ft, Drum, New York and I went out of the way to go up to Orillia and visit the Epps store. It was a great store. The inside even smelled right; a hint of mildew, mixed with gun oil. I bought a single shot Baikal and had it sent to me at home while I traveled back through the States. Anyway, a great store with some character. There are still a few left but they are fewer and fewer. GD

I can't remember. I do remember that it was the second one I got from him. Took the first one to Earl Leach, and he drilled and tapped it, altered the bolt handle, rechambered it to 8mm-06 Improved, and made a set of dies for it, all in one afternoon while I watched. Those were the days, my friend. Any of you guys know Earl?

That was quite a rifle, death on wheels with the old Herters 225 gr round nose bullets. Sold it to a friend of mine when I left Kirkland Lake and headed West. Have lost track of Jim, but the rifle is probably still killing moose and bear.

Ted

Back then, I only looked for rifles that I could shoot right away. I bought Mosin Nagants - M39s and a couple of collectibles, Lee Enfields and a few oddballs. I had a Remington rolling block which sat in my closet for years. I sold it off. No time to rebarrel.

Back in the early 1970's when I had several .303's and lived in Indiana, I was thinking about re-chambering my cut-down Pattern 14 to the Epps improved .303. One Saturday a friend and I drove over to Ontario and spent a couple of hours at the Ellwood Epps store. We met Ellwood who did not have a lot to say. We mostly talked with an Austrian born gunsmith who was working for him.

The Pattern 14 had a bore that was not worth converting. I ended up rebarreling it to .30/40 Krag and then selling the barreled action when I realized how much the stock would cost.

GrimJim

My Great Grandfather was very good friends with Ellwood and a frequent visitor to his Clinton store. This picture has a place of honor in my living room (my GG on the right with Ellwood and his wife in the middle...never got the name of the person on the left)



My GG had Ellwood and his gunsmith customize the rifle he's holding (Mauser 98 in .35 Whelen), and it must have been early on in it's life as it isn't sporting it's side mounted Weaver K4 yet. My Dad inherited the rifle when my GG passed away and since it's move to Atikokan, has accounted for 3 moose and a pile of deer, including my first buck. It's on the right in this picture.



My Dad is a very...frugal man and firmly believes one shot is enough to check zero each season and that if the scope still lines up with the irons, it's good enough. Who am I to doubt him when I can't ever recall that rifle missing what it was pointed at. It shoots everything to the same point of aim at 100 yards, doesn't matter if it's a factory 200 or 250gr or a handloaded 225. I remember one day when confirming zero, Dad digging through his toolbox where he kept his ammo and pulled out a sleeve of handloaded 225 gr. that had come with the rifle. He cycled one through, took aim and touched off the trigger. He got scoped for his trouble and grunted, "Those are a little zippy..."

Cory

Very interesting - thanks for sharing.

What wonderful photos! To me, photos and other things of this nature grow more important with age. That must be a 1950s vintage picture.

A few things that caught my eye. No one has a scoped rifle. Your GG has a single trigger. The rest are double triggers. I assume that Ellwood and Isabel got the centre moose. I wonder which of them shot it?

Marg and I hunted with Elwood and Isabelle Epps in the late 60s. We lived in Kirkland Lake, and they came North from Clinton to hunt around Matatchewan, which was about an hour away from us. The moose season was open until December 15th in those days, and we used skidoos to get into the hunting area.

Can't remember for sure what Elwood used, but Isabelle always carried a 7X57, and she could shoot it!

Elwood was a fan of round nose bullets. In fact he wrote at least one article about it, called, "Make Mime A Round Nose. Never forgot that.

Now, to find those pictures.....

Ted

Yes, try and find them, Ted. And yes, Isabel knew what to use. Her favourite Epps cartridge was the 6.5 Epps. I am going to have to print Cory's photo and show it to Rob Wise, Ellwood's grandson. He might know who the fellow on the left is.

Isabel outlived Ellwood by 14 years and died at 98 in London, ON.

So, at deer camp this week the guys were talking and they reminded me to tell the story of the first day I worked at Lovett’s. This would have been around the first week of Sept. 1978.

As it happens, of the four of us at deer camp this year, 2 are brothers. But we all worked at Lovett’s, having met there and remaining good friends over 40 years later. We toasted the father of the brothers, who passed in August this year. He loved going to deer camp, too, and worked at Lovett’s after retiring from his career.

Anyway, back to the story of my first day at Lovett’s. I was a greenhorn, having little hunting experience besides shooting groundhogs on my grandfather’s farm with an old Cooey single-shot 22. But Keith hired me anyway and that first day on King St. W. motioned for me to follow him outside.

We went to the gravel parking lot at the side of the building, where Keith produced a can of gunpowder that he said was old and he wanted to get rid of.

He proceeded to draw a design on the gravel with it, about 12” across, then bent over and touched a flame to the powder. It “whooshed” suddenly and flared right into his face as he was bent over! I vividly remember him just kind of groaning and falling backwards in his hunched over position, his glasses fogged completely white from the powder residue!

I stood slack-jawed, the first thought through my mind being “First day on the job and I’ve killed the boss!’ He soon recovered and I helped him inside.

His wife Eileen was a Registered Nurse, so she treated him, but he ended up with 2nd and 3rd-degree burns on his face. Over the next couple of weeks his face was peeling dead skin and weeping from the water blisters. He told anyone who asked that he fell asleep under a sun lamp.

Of course, myself and the other employees there that day knew otherwise, and someone let slip what had happened. A few weeks later Keith got an unannounced visit from the RCMP to check his powder stores. Nothing ever came of it that I know of.

I spoke with Keith's daughter in the past year who told me Keith and Eileen were well and had moved back to NS. Keith was a one of a kind.

Once I asked his wife why Keith hadn't retired yet when he was still at his store on Old King near Freeport? Eileen said, "He wasn't house trained!"

That's a great story OG. Be Well, RZ.

Keith passed away in Feb 2018. You must have talked with her more than a year ago.

https://www.wjdooley.com/obituary/Keith-Lovett

Indeed. Time flies...

I stand corrected.

In the second picture of the 2 rifles what gun is the left one, understand the right one is the 98 35 whelen, what is the action on the left one? Mb

It looks like a LE to me. No charger bridge. New bolt handle. Action modded for a one piece stock. You used to see LE one piece stocks once upon a time.

Leaning against the moose antlers? That's my Husqvarna 46 in 9.3x57.

Cory

That makes sense. I was looking at the cocking piece and the rear sight. The grip for the cocking piece looked different.

Thanks Cory it is cool looking outfit also. The little small ring HVA's are sweet have 2 in 270 win. MB