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pre 64 barrel date #15316563 10/16/20
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How far off can the barrel date be from the year the action was produced? I think I read that no effort was made to match them up particularly with the workers just grabbing a barrel out of a bin to mate with the action on their bench.
Phil

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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15316654 10/16/20
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Common calibers (.30-06, 270 Win.) 2 to 3 years. Less common chamberings such as Hornet and Roberts 4 to 5 years. Rare configurations (carbines) and chamberings 300 Sav., .250-3000 Sav. 7 M/M and 35 Rem., 10 years+.

Not so much as just grabbing a barrel out of bin, but sales/popularity of a particular chambering related. Some barrels sat around for a long time.


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Hunter S. Thompson
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15316686 10/16/20
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thanks

Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15318030 10/16/20
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If the gun itself is a 1954, that was a big barrel clean up year. They would have some pretty old barrels on some of them, especially carbines and lesser made calibers.


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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15318706 10/16/20
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Kudos for O/P's quesiton here! Plus 1 to the above comments! Adding small dimension. Respecting rare chamberings and/or configurations. Mix & match not unusual and if competently done, never to know... Reasonably undetectable!

War story: Latter sixties, finding a prewar Model 70 .257 Roberts, short rifle, 20" barrel. Some couple hundred dollars even then as action swiss-cheesed with mount holes. Friend, advanced collector/home gunsmith. Few years later, swapping actions for me with my well used early postwar Win .257. Headspace-on as skilled chambering reamer kiss + sixpack! Results, competent & never reasonably to exhibit any difference! Realistically assessable as early postwar factory "barrel cleanup". Eventually sold to same long begging friend. My decent profit, likely his estate windfall.

Such as barrel swaps: Sight indexing to vertical and headspace, both critical 'tests'. And no, George... No "ultra-rare custom shop editions" for cross-eyed southpaws with vertigo! smile smile smile

Basic knowledge, critical eye and 'sniff' test... "Rarity" or other $$$ providing motive'!

Best & Stay Safe!
John

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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: iskra] #15319943 10/17/20
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Originally Posted by iskra
Kudos for O/P's quesiton here! Plus 1 to the above comments! Adding small dimension. Respecting rare chamberings and/or configurations. Mix & match not unusual and if competently done, never to know... Reasonably undetectable!

War story: Latter sixties, finding a prewar Model 70 .257 Roberts, short rifle, 20" barrel. Some couple hundred dollars even then as action swiss-cheesed with mount holes. Friend, advanced collector/home gunsmith. Few years later, swapping actions for me with my well used early postwar Win .257. Headspace-on as skilled chambering reamer kiss + sixpack! Results, competent & never reasonably to exhibit any difference! Realistically assessable as early postwar factory "barrel cleanup". Eventually sold to same long begging friend. My decent profit, likely his estate windfall.

Such as barrel swaps: Sight indexing to vertical and headspace, both critical 'tests'. And no, George... No "ultra-rare custom shop editions" for cross-eyed southpaws with vertigo! smile smile smile

Basic knowledge, critical eye and 'sniff' test... "Rarity" or other $$$ providing motive'!

Best & Stay Safe!
John


Yes, what you are saying definitely happened in the day. Still probably happens now. For the most part, all of the pre 64 rifles Ive owned have had matching year stamped barrels. Most all of mine are common chamberings though. Even the H&H rifles ive owned were correct. If I see a standard chambered rifle with a barrel that doesnt match the receiver by a couple years, im just a little leery of a re-barrel.


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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15321198 10/17/20
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I agree with Jack's comments, but what I do not know is how dates were stamped on rifles returned for rebarreling, and were they consistent?

Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15321300 10/17/20
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No M70 factory records so unless provenance exists (very unlikely) no one knows that. Actually, have only heard of one, maybe two claims of guns guns being returned to the factory to be re-barreled.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15321663 10/17/20
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Good stuff guys. Most of mine in common calibers are/were either 1 year earlier on barrel or same year as receiver.


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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15322827 10/18/20
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Shouldn't factory re-barreled guns have double proof marks on the barrel?


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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: sbrmike] #15322853 10/18/20
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Memory says there were mail order barrels for lever guns and those had double proofs


What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: ctw] #15322927 10/18/20
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Originally Posted by ctw
Memory says there were mail order barrels for lever guns and those had double proofs


Mail order barrels were stamped with a P in an oval.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15325269 10/19/20
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WW did not use FIFO on commercial models, as might be stipulated in military contracts. With just about any model can see a barrel older than receiver SN indicates. Mostly pretty close, but with transition/late prewar years sales were slow. Could easily see prewar bbls (and metal finish, some models) on postwar receivers, etc.

Curious. Has anyone ever seen 20lpi checkering on a honest original postwar? Any model? I have not.

What should give pause are barrels of later date than the receivers suggest. And yes, the WW reinvention industry worked well for the M-70-savvy. I saw how it was done, including a matched pair of 9x57s. Made up in the '80s, but if you can't prove it....

Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15325362 10/19/20
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What should really give one pause is a barrel in ANY M70 caliber or configuration that was not catalogued by Winchester.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15326497 10/19/20
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Heck I have seen a bunch of pre war M70's with original 20 LPI checkering! I guess haven't seen any ones old enough. I have seen and owned a few 1936's, 37's, and one 1938. They all had the 20 LPI. They switched to 18 LPI in 1941. There are tons of 1941 M70's; at one time almost every pre war you saw was a 1941. I can't say if I ever saw a 1941 with 20 LPI, but am fairly certain there should be some of them.


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Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15326589 10/19/20
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A good friend sent me some pics of 20 line-per-inch checkering on his 1939 Standard Rifle. He noted that this checkering also illustrates the slightly larger grip panel seen on guns in the 1930’s.
He also sent a pic of the under barrel stamp as it appears on his 1937 250-3000 SAV carbine. I own a 1947 250-3000 SAV carbine with the same under barrel stamp. Obviously, 1932 carbine barrels intended for the M54 that were used 5 and 15 years later on M70’s.
Pics are posted in Image Gallery


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: TenX] #15326652 10/19/20
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20 lpi is standard prewar, 18 lpi postwar (or '41). Asking if anyone has seen an original condition postwar SN Winchester with 20 lpi. Any Winchester model.

As for non-catalogued, SO, etc........exists but caveat emptor. Transition period was rife with it. There were no M-42 deluxes catalogued, but legit examples do exist. Same for WS1-stamped M-42 skeets. Never catalogued. All have been VRs and within a very narrow postwar SN range.

Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: Poconojack] #15326680 10/19/20
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A M 70 prewar with the 250 Savage chambering... Quite valuable. Add carbine length barrel... Moving toward astronomical $... IF original! I have a spare 20" 30-06 Winchester Short Rifle (aka carbine) barrel marked for Model 54. An essential clue in all such Win 54 or 70 carbine barrels, the forged integral front sight ramp. Difficult to forge and any attempts to silver-solder, as instant tilt. Conjuring hitching it up to a model 70 non-collector action with dreaded "receiver bridge scope holes". Perhaps into Mannlicher stock. Of course conjuring such for couple of decades... I'm quick to conjure, bit slow to 'implement'! smile
Congrats to whomever re such nice rifles!
Best & Stay Safe!
John

Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: iskra] #15327065 10/19/20
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So how do you tell a supergrade barrel from others? I rebarreled a pre war super grade carbine and kept the take off , the barrel has been refinshed and appears to have a slight bulge under the front sight. I kept the barrel thinking about a rebore.


What you have done is not nearly as important as how you have done it!!!
The Old Fart 2008 A.D.
Re: pre 64 barrel date [Re: ctw] #15327091 10/19/20
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Originally Posted by ctw
So how do you tell a supergrade barrel from others? I rebarreled a pre war super grade carbine and kept the take off , the barrel has been refinshed and appears to have a slight bulge under the front sight. I kept the barrel thinking about a rebore.


Winchester never catalogued a Super Grade carbine.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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