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Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15311387 10/14/20
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T_Inman Offline
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I like a good, healthy discussion such as this, as seeing various points of view is always a good thing.

Good stuff!



BP-B2

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: T_Inman] #15311429 10/14/20
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MontanaCreekHunter Offline
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Originally Posted by T_Inman
I like a good, healthy discussion such as this, as seeing various points of view is always a good thing.

Good stuff!


When are you coming back to the Valley?


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15311890 10/14/20
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T_Inman Offline
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I'll be there the week before, and of, Thanksgiving.



Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: T_Inman] #15312401 10/14/20
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Originally Posted by T_Inman
I'll be there the week before, and of, Thanksgiving.


Sounds good!


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15312586 10/14/20
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I hunt over decoys. In my experience, ducks fold up when they are hit cupped and committed.

If we have ducks in the decoys we generally let them sit to attract more ducks.

But if someone shoots, it's ok with me. As long as they are shooting at ducks. But if they shoot a merganser...we ride them hard...just because.

IC-A

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15312861 10/14/20
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Well, it's settled then.

I'm glad opener is around the corner. My dog needs some real work. This practice stuff sucks for the both of us.

I might not even take my scatter guns for the opener. Just bring the dog and let every one else pound away. On the water, or on the wing...just give us some live action.

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15313473 10/15/20
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Alamosa Offline
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I followed waterfowl forums for many years before becoming more interested in big game.
Of the controversial topics discussed skillet shots or water swatting was really not the most prominent ethical topic discussed.
I considered posting each of these as a separate topic -

- Is using a 10ga cheating?
- Are 3.5 in shells ethical? (the idea being that they cause crippling due to added recoil)
- Busting a roost? Should you just walk away instead?
- Should you stop pursuing a covey after you have taken several quail from it?
- Turkeys with a rifle? or grouse with a handgun?
- Decoy hunters distain for jump shooters.

I liked what 7mm08 posted about comparisons to fishermen.
Personally we find blue grouse in heavy black timber. If we refuse to shoot them on the ground or from a perch there will be no shot opportunities.
Final thought. If you are going to put the effort into stalking waterfowl on water switch to large shot size.

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15320342 10/17/20
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prairie dog shooter Offline
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I used to hunt quail with pointers and Brittany's. And I hunted the same fields year after year. I always left at least ten birds in the coveys. It likely didn't matter, but my thinking is quail are not migratory. Leave some breading stock for next year.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15320358 10/17/20
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Turkey with a rifle? OK if you are on private property and know where other hunters are. I don't think it's as much fun as calling them into flintlock smoothbore range. I would never hunt spring turkey on public land if rifles were allowed.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15320370 10/17/20
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Personally, I don't care what you shoot or how you shoot it as long as it's safe and legal. Same for fishing, be safe, be legal, and enjoy it! That's the entire point.


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke 1795

"Give me liberty or give me death"
Patrick Henry 1775
IC-B

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15322009 10/17/20
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East Tn doesn’t have many ducks, and I honestly am not much of a duck hunter. Have good friends who love it and I’ll tag along occasionally.

While I respect people’s opinions on the question for sure

I’ll absolutely swat one on the water. No qualms with it at all. I came to kill birds to eat, and plan to do just that. So long as it’s safe

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15323993 10/18/20
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battue Offline
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How about hunting Quail with a good Bird Dog and seeing a covey on the ground and lining up a couple and swatting them....As long as it is safe....

And back in the market hunting days they swatted a hundred rafted Ducks at a time with punt guns....So some may say there is precedent....It was legal and safe back then....

My thoughts are this thread evidences a generational shift in how we look at taking game...Like many situations today, attitudes and norms have changed...some for the better and others not so much.....

I can tell you this, re the above Quail scenario, do the same on any of the Plantations or good Commercial Quail operations down south, and there is a good chance you will not be asked to return...And a better than even chance told not to do it a second time or make up your mind and leave now....fortunately there still are places where traditions run deep.....Myself, I don't see why any would differentiate between Waterfowl and Quail.... as long as it is safe....

Addition: In many States it is illegal to shoot Deer while they are swimming....If they are only standing in water it is legal.....Why can't you shoot Deer swimming when it is OK for Ducks?.....They are both something to kill and eat....addition again.....To a good shooter, a Deer slurping up the corn has as much chance as one swimming...some are even pavloved to the timer....I always have said food plots and feeders are the modern day equivalent of the olden days ring of fire....

Last edited by battue; 10/18/20.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: battue] #15324829 10/18/20
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T_Inman Offline
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Originally Posted by battue
How about hunting Quail with a good Bird Dog and seeing a covey on the ground and lining up a couple and swatting them....As long as it is safe....

And back in the market hunting days they swatted a hundred rafted Ducks at a time with punt guns....So some may say there is precedent....It was legal and safe back then....

My thoughts are this thread evidences a generational shift in how we look at taking game...Like many situations today, attitudes and norms have changed...some for the better and others not so much.....

I can tell you this, re the above Quail scenario, do the same on any of the Plantations or good Commercial Quail operations down south, and there is a good chance you will not be asked to return...And a better than even chance told not to do it a second time or make up your mind and leave now....fortunately there still are places where traditions run deep.....Myself, I don't see why any would differentiate between Waterfowl and Quail.... as long as it is safe....

Addition: In many States it is illegal to shoot Deer while they are swimming....If they are only standing in water it is legal.....Why can't you shoot Deer swimming when it is OK for Ducks?.....They are both something to kill and eat....addition again.....To a good shooter, a Deer slurping up the corn has as much chance as one swimming...some are even pavloved to the timer....I always have said food plots and feeders are the modern day equivalent of the olden days ring of fire....


I've shot more than a few quail as they ran ahead of the dogs, and plenty more on the ground without dogs. I am sure I'll do it again without regret, remorse or guilt. If I got booted from a plantation for doing so, I'd consider it a blessing as I don't need to associate with with plantations, nor those type of judgmental people anyhow. As long as that rule is/was disclosed before the hunt, I'd have no issue with it, but I would turn down the opportunity to hunt. It'd be win/win, for me at least.

As far as food plots and feeders.....how about fall bears in a berry patch? I've shot a couple of bears over the years as they gorged themselves on what I believe was the only patch in an entire drainage....so it may as well have been a feeder, but it's a technique often embraced and suggested by hunters, and very often even game departments. Same with deer/elk/moose gut piles and carcass'. What about antelope over a water hole in an otherwise dry area? That's a perfectly acceptable way of hunting them, and may as well be a feeder.

Good conversation we have here!




Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15324884 10/18/20
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kingston Offline
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To my way of thinking, it's really not a question of ethics as much as a matter of practicalities.

1. It's easier to kill them when their wings are set and vitals are exposed.

2. You've got less chance shooting up the decoys when the ducks are in the air.

3. Live ducks make very realistic decoys.

4. If one needs motivation to pay attention, not shooting them in the decoys can serve as penance for not seeing them come in.

None of this should suggest shooting ducks in the decoys is wrong.

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: T_Inman] #15324912 10/18/20
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battue Offline
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And I can't disagree with anything you say....Just adding food for thought....Although the "as long as it's safe" comments are interesting....Well yea, no shiiit!!!!!

I often hunt Deer in a woods of around 1200 acres that on two sides is bordered by farmer corn....Been a long time since I didn't find corn in one....even in years like this one when acorns are everywhere....and a early morning smart place to spend some time, is to catch them leaving the fields to go to cover. I've shot Grouse while driving on a woods road to a different spot, and saw them sitting on a log in the woods, stopped and let the Dog work it and then shot it on the fly....Some diehards would call it unethical. We all have standards that someone higher on the purist scale would say doesn't live up to theirs...

Addition: The Game Commission here now plants fields on Game Lands. They timber the same to not only generate cash, but by doing so also create "food plots" with new emergent growth....

Last edited by battue; 10/18/20.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15326777 10/19/20
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longarm Offline
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Ever shoot a bedded deer?

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15327461 10/19/20
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battue Offline
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Yes here....


laissez les bons temps rouler
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: longarm] #15328560 10/20/20
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Originally Posted by longarm
Ever shoot a bedded deer?


That could be argued to be as humane as any other as a bedded deer or bull elk most likely will not move laterally significantly at the shot as a standing or moving one might; additionally, it would seem to express the animal’s calmness. Certainly, it could move to stand up.

I haven’t but Assuming equal conditions, I would.

Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: MTDan] #15328936 10/20/20
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battue Offline
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George,
There are many experienced hunters that advise against it. Especially with distance, in that it is easy to hit something you don’t see in front of the animal.

When I did it the Deer was really close. Like 3 or 4 big steps.


laissez les bons temps rouler
Re: Ethical question: why not shoot ducks on the water? [Re: battue] #15329132 10/20/20
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Sure; opinions vary; often, it’s also the writing of it on a site that one tends to minimize, assuming that others are filling in the blanks as you go. But, it’s never safe to assume. 😉

I can still picture several white tails and a couple of bull elk bedded in snow that I’ve snuck up in in my traditional bowyer and early days. Heads at 90* to my path, so broadside like in the pic. Like a standing broadside shot accept legs tucked underneath. No intervening brush. A chip shot with a rifle at whatever distance one was comfortable taking if it was standing still..

Myself, I would not hesitate — after some fifty + deer and elk with both bow and gun — provided all my requirements for an ethical shot could be met.

For example, my last step alerted this calf. But even if not alerted, no shot to your point (for me anyway with a bow) because of that little branch hanging down over the chest. But if she had been a bull, more in the open, and not aware of my presence, he’d be in trouble city. Especially with a rifle.

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