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The owner was conveniently out of town but this is a synopsis of the trip and what I sent him in text

I hate long posts and this is one of them. Sorry for rambling and sorry if it is whiny....this has been a hard pill to swallow


Extremely disappointed.


First 2 days were with a guide that has never been on the land. Never saw an elk. Never heard and elk. I enjoyed the guide but we were at a steep disadvantage.

Days 1 and 2

Mornings consisted of walking and trying to bump/spook elk out of cover to maybe possibly get a shot.
Evenings were sitting in stand overlooking meadows that had zero sign of recent activity....according to the guides.
In the evenings, all three of us hunters sat by ourselves....no guide.

The only elk that was shot by one of the other two hunters from a public road(this is the exact story from the hunter and his guide) when the herd almost ran over the truck. The elk.....according to them was on private land they had permission to hunt. These were the only elk seen by that hunter. He was even allowed to continue hunting after wounding that bull. even though the contract stated that would conclude the hunt. Where those elk were seen, no one ever hunted that area again.

I can’t shake the feeling that Scott Huggins hunters were given priority over my hunt. Admittedly, i have no direct evidence of this but I trust my instincts. My guide would tell me the plan and then the main guide would change plans. I got the guide with no experience on the property. Day 4 evening the other guide took his two hunters to the top of the mountain.....and I was stuck hunting one of the same meadows with no activity.

Day 3 with Antonio, finally saw 2 cow elk because we walked into them on the way back to the truck after walking several miles. He really tried to talk me into shooting a cow but this is/was my once in a lifetime hunt. My wife and I are both in public education so $5,000+ is big money to us. At the time, I didn’t understand he knew this might be the only elk we would see.

Day 4....no elk. More of the same....walk and try to spook. Then sat on a meadow I had already sat on . Told Antonio I was thinking of throwing in the towel and his reply was, “I don’t blame you”

When I booked I was told we would spot and stalk in the mornings but what we actually did was try to walk...bump...and gun. I am confident to 500yds and can stretch it further but the only elk I saw was running at 30yds and one standing still at 40yds. Both were cows.

One of the other hunters here never saw an elk except for driving in the dark and they saw 3 bulls on other property.

I understand you are on a deer hunt in Kansas and then Ohio. Imagine if your guide had never been on the land you are hunting. Then the plan for your hunt was to walk around trying to spook deer to then get a shot as they run away in thick cover. Then imagine if in 4 days you had only accidentally bumped into 2 does and there were 2 other hunters there that one saw 0 deer and the other only saw a buck because they almost ran over it on a public road.

There were some red flags that I ignored in the excitement of booking a hunt. I asked multiple times for pics of kills this year and never got any. I asked multiple times if y’all were seeing some good elk before my hunt and never got an answer. I told myself that this hunt was discounted because of Covid 19 but now I think there are more reasons for the discount.

So according to the the owner the elk haven’t moved down because there was no snow but then in the same breath he says they were there last week. I asked how he conducts hunts in Sept and October if he is reliant on elk moving down....I got no reply.

Before I booked the hunt, I asked what would happen in the case of a bad hunt....exactly like the above....he said Monday the past he has rebooked at a discount. I wouldn’t even take him up on this offer at a great discount.

Lessons learned.....

Get in writing who you will be hunting with
Get in writing what will happen if no shot is presented....if possible pay for the hunt and then agree on a kill fee
I wouldn’t mind paying more for some kind of opportunity guarantee.
Ask exactly how much acreage there is to hunt and find out if there is access to elk no matter the weather
Be persistent about recent kills and what scouting is being done
A discount hunt may just be too good to be true. There was definitely a reason I could afford this hunt.
Definitely wait until you can afford a legitimate outfitter.

Last edited by 5Redman8; 11/07/20.

AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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It sounds like you should have booked a high fence "hunt" because hunting elk is a whole lot like hunting, and a little bit about shooting, an elk !


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I don’t mind hunting hard but I could “hunt” my back yard and see just as many bulls


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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I'm just glad your not educatinging my kids, ever heard of google maps ? Why did you not know where and when you were hunting?
You did no home work, and pissed away some cash, its called getting an education .
You didn't do your homework and it cost you, no ones fault but your own !
Did you post any questions here before you booked your hunt ?
I didn't think so !


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Originally Posted by jimy
I'm just glad your not educatinging my kids, ever heard of google maps ? Why did you not know where and when you were hunting?
You did no home work, and pissed away some cash, its called getting an education .
You didn't do your homework and it cost you, no ones fault but your own !
Did you post any questions here before you booked your hunt ?
I didn't think so !


Not on this site....no. But on another site yes. Got good references.

I did know where I was hunting and I knew the exact dates. I didn’t get information on each individual property

To say I did no homework shows your ignorance. You ASSume quite a bit with no basis.

Having never hunted elk I am fully aware of my ignorance.


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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Ok my bad, I see you are a Texan, you are right , the guide was a dick and you should get 30 grand back, for not getting an elk ,a full curl sheep and a better than average moose, I overlooked, that I will try harder in the future, best wishes and happy holidays !


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Alright lets start over, did you enjoy your time in the mountains? Was the food and lodging up to par ? Were the guides prompt, prepared and courteous ?
Did you ask questions about why you were hunting where there were no elk, did you hear any shooting, were people riding 4 wheelers?

Just not shooting an elk is no reason for not having a great time, usually after you shoot an elk, things take a down turn when it comes to fun, just maybe you had a better time than you really know !


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Originally Posted by jimy
Alright lets start over, did you enjoy your time in the mountains? Was the food and lodging up to par ? Were the guides prompt, prepared and courteous ?
Did you ask questions about why you were hunting where there were no elk, did you hear any shooting, were people riding 4 wheelers?

Just not shooting an elk is no reason for not having a great time, usually after you shoot an elk, things take a down turn when it comes to fun, just maybe you had a better time than you really know !


Lodging was a 4 out of 10. Unfinished and uninsulated but acceptable to me.

Food was a 7 out of 10 the cook truly enjoyed his work and was super friendly.

Both guides were friendly courteous and only late for one evening hunt.

I loved being in the mountains except for needing to be in better shape.

I could easily accept not harvesting an elk but I certainly expected an opportunity and at the very least to see a bull


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
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Originally Posted by 5Redman8
Originally Posted by jimy
Alright lets start over, did you enjoy your time in the mountains? Was the food and lodging up to par ? Were the guides prompt, prepared and courteous ?
Did you ask questions about why you were hunting where there were no elk, did you hear any shooting, were people riding 4 wheelers?

Just not shooting an elk is no reason for not having a great time, usually after you shoot an elk, things take a down turn when it comes to fun, just maybe you had a better time than you really know !


Lodging was a 4 out of 10. Unfinished and uninsulated but acceptable to me.

Food was a 7 out of 10 the cook truly enjoyed his work and was super friendly.

Both guides were friendly courteous and only late for one evening hunt.

I loved being in the mountains except for needing to be in better shape.

I could easily accept not harvesting an elk but I certainly expected an opportunity and at the very least to see a bull


That's what we all expect, but thats why its called hunting, elk do not give it up easily, if you had a good time then it was money well spent, you learned, they learned both of you will be better prepared next time.


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Red , like you I would have expected the guides to be familiar with the area the outfit operates. Outfitters web site says the guides have pre scouted and patterned the target game animals. I do understand its hunting and not shooting so no guarantee and yet had guides bust their ass trying to get me on animals .


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An elk hunt, even a piss poor one is the hunt of a life time and should be enjoyed by all involved, the cold ,the snow, the mud, the cold food and colder bed are just all part of what makes killing a bull elk one of the best thing in life, the horses break out, the cook stove won't light. bears tear up the tents, that's what makes it elk hunting !
You just need to take another look at what your goals are, there are plenty of places that you can shoot an elk out of the truck, while sipping a cold beer, but thats not saying much about the elk or the "hunter" you only get out , what you put in to it !


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Originally Posted by 5Redman8

I loved being in the mountains except for needing to be in better shape.


Elk harvest success rates are generally less than 50% everywhere. Not being in shape cuts low odds in half again.

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Originally Posted by Region6
Originally Posted by 5Redman8

I loved being in the mountains except for needing to be in better shape.


Elk harvest success rates are generally less than 50% everywhere. Not being in shape cuts low odds in half again.


Not having any bulls cuts it to zero

No one said not in shape....there is always better shape


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https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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I don't know where you were in NM, but everyone I know (including me on a deer hunt) has had a tough year. Sounds like you have some legitimate gripes, though.


Mercy ceases to be a virtue when it enables further injustice. -Brent Weeks

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The outfitters website claims 80-90% harvest rate over the last 4 years on 5x5 or larger. Even on a tough year I would expect to see some bulls hunting private land. Elk hunting can be tough and they are extremely smart and have great senses but I’d hope this outfitter could put his clients on some bulls or elk each day at least.
Don’t give up. You can always draw a public land tag and DIY and have success.

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5Redman8, you mentioned conditioning. Do you think there were better places your guide wanted to hunt but couldn’t because you were unable to get to those spots? Folks in outstanding physical condition who live on the flat @ low elevation don’t understand “Mountain Hunting Condition” until they’ve done it.

As for the guide not being there for the evening sit, I guess given that you’d been seeing very few elk, I’d rather have the guide out looking somewhere else rather than have him in my hip-pocket. Divide and conquer so to speak.

Weather can play a major role in game movement as well. Warm lazy-days are exactly that. When you sit down for a snack and your eyelids get heavy, an elk is thinking the exact same thing. When Cold/snow has you afoot to just to stay warm, it’ll have the elk doing the same and country that was deserted yesterday can be covered-up in critters the next.

A guide is like a tool. I can install/remove most Phillips-head screws with a flat-blade screw-driver. If I use a Phillips-head driver, I’ll get most Phillips-head screws out/in. However, even using the properly fit Phillips-driver, sometimes I’m going to strip the screw. You can have the absolute best tool in the world and even then, sometimes, things don’t work out.


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Horse1

I had been walking and hiking 3-4 miles a day and did a 10 mile hike....albeit on flat ground with no issue

I would consider conditioning to be an issue but one of the other guys on the trip was in tip top shape.....climbed all over the place and never saw anything.....other than driving in the truck

Another guy was in good condition and never saw an elk.

More information is coming out on another forum.



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AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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Originally Posted by 5Redman8


Lessons learned.....

Get in writing who you will be hunting with
Get in writing what will happen if no shot is presented....if possible pay for the hunt and then agree on a kill fee
I wouldn’t mind paying more for some kind of opportunity guarantee.
Ask exactly how much acreage there is to hunt and find out if there is access to elk no matter the weather
Be persistent about recent kills and what scouting is being done
A discount hunt may just be too good to be true. There was definitely a reason I could afford this hunt.
Definitely wait until you can afford a legitimate outfitter.


Redman, it sounds like you have some legitimate gripes. It sounds like the elk weren't there in your area and the outfitter didn't have a Plan B. If I paid good money for a private land guided hunt, I would expect the outfitter to put me on some elk. Or at least put me in an area with elk.

Having said that, there are no guarantees and I don't think your lessons learned are focused on the right questions. An outfitter can't always guarantee who your guide will be. His job is just to make sure you have a good one. An outfitter can't guarantee you'll get a shot opportunity,his job is to do his best to get you one. The fact that you were directed to keep hunting where there were no elk with no Plan B would have frustrated me too. But no outfitter can guarantee anything in writing, and you shouldn't expect him to.

The best you can do is talk to references, especially hunters who didn't punch their tag. If they say "I didn't get a shot but the guides were great and worked their asses off for me" that should be good enough. Assuming the area held elk in the first place.



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Elk are where they are and do what they do. You can have them figured out and fill your tag for a decade, then they decide to do something different and you're stumped.

Elk hunting is NOTHING like deer hunting because of the sheer amount of ground an elk can and will travel at the drop of a hat. I've seen whitetails and Mule Deer travel 3-4Mi out on the open prairie before slowing down and finding a hiddey-hole. An elk will travel double or triple that distance daily for food and/or water let alone how far they'll go once pressured.

Sometimes they'll Houdini themselves right out from under your nose (happened to us on opening day this year), and other times you'd swear they have a death-wish. I killed a bull about 10-days ago @ 400yds even. The other 3 in the group stood around long enough for my buddy to kill his. The remaining 2 bulls went downhill, then back uphill and we could've killed them both @ 50yds. Fall of '18 my buddy shot a cow and when the shooting stopped an unseen 320"-330" bull stepped out of a drainage up onto a flat @ ~200yds and stood there "barking" at us, I'd filled my tag the day before so all we could do was giggle @ how dumb that bull was being.


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I’ve guided some. I know the new to the area guide thing happens and I would not be happy about it. I usually tell people that’s one of the questions they should be asking. Sometimes guides aren’t assigned until everyone is in camp, but you should still expect to have guides familiar with the area. Although you’ll always have newer and older guides.

Your complaints about guarantees are unrealistic, even for private ranch hunts. At least in most of the west. I’ve guided on a big private ranch that you really can’t tell the difference between it and the designated wilderness area adjacent to it. No guarantees there either.

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