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Price makes absolutely no difference. The OP got taken and has every right to point out the obvious.

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Don’t think there is an answer to that. With the right 20, you could kill an elk, the wrong 20,000 you could hunt your butt off and not see a thing.

My point to 46 and all units in the special management zone is you run out of options pretty fast ( if they aren’t managed right) unless the outfitter has access to a bunch of properties. It doesn’t take much to blow out a 300 acre ranch. By the time you went, there had been multiple bow and rifle hunts before you. Unless the outfitter has a large contiguous chunk of ground, you’re forced to bounce property to property in hopes they are on one of the secured properties.

I have no idea how many ranches, size or the relation to each of them that the outfitter has secured, or the agreement between the LO’s and himself on hunting activity by others. I can tell you, the NMDGF give a bunch of authorizations for the the area, so you are competing with LO’s/locals hunting as well as hunters brought in by outfitters.

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I'm guessing thats 6,000 cumulative acres that he has permission to hunt via his outfitter license and/or landowner agreements. Was that your understanding from the beginning or did the outfitter give an indication that it was a single block? Looking at the text you asked about the [singular]ranch, so I'd think his response would have clarified it was several non conjoined properties, but that's just my initial thoughts.

Sorry you didn't have a good time. That's unfortunate. It may be tough and not in your long term plan, but it is always in the cards to save up again, if you want it bad enough.

Last edited by T_Inman; 11/11/20. Reason: clarified "non conjoined"


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Was typing while you posted this. Curios as I mentioned how the 6,000 was split up.

Originally Posted by 5Redman8
[Linked Image from texashuntingforum.com]

1200 was at risk of fire but the fire turned north.

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Agreed, probably an honest answer, but a bit deceiving to someone that doesn’t understand E-Plus.

Originally Posted by T_Inman
Looking at the text you asked about the [singular]ranch, so I'd think his response would have clarified it was several properties, but that's just my initial thoughts..

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I ASSumed that his ranch was 6,000 in one property but I did understand there were other ranches.....I ASSumed the other ranches were in addition to his 6,000

I should have asked specifically how much total property was involved, how many properties there were, and if his ranch/ranches hold elk or are they passing through.


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The OP was hunting in Unit 46 of New Mexico. It’s a damn dumpster fire. These ‘outfitters’ really aren’t even outfitters, as they are just agents for the landowners. There are thousands private land tags in the unit (zero public draw permits) that are pimped out at discount rates at every outdoor show around the country, to gullible guys like the OP, who are looking to book their ‘once in a lifetime elk hunt’. These hunts are usually pretty cheap, especially by fully guided elk hunt standards, but that’s because they suck!

For the folks giving the guy a hard time, stop… he’s already been bent over enough. Even the best of you elk hunters would have a very low batting average here; I concur with the OP’s guide in trying to bump one by stumbling into them as a tactic. There is zero public land to hunt and they’re often smallish chunks of land by western standards. Since it’s an entirely private land unit, hunters can choose any 5-day period for rifle, or a 10-day period with a bow, in which they want to hunt. The elk have not had a break in hunting pressure since September 1st, save 5 days between the 26th and 30th of September, because of this. With hunters being pumped through that country in an assembly line, the resident elk are likely only in a few, well patrolled, areas that don’t have any other hunting pressure…. If those even exist, because Mora and the surrounding areas are some of the most lawless lowlife enclaves of scum one could ever want to look for in rural America.


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Here is another red flag that I missed.

I asked how many acres his ranch is. His reply is below.

When I asked for a location/map of “the ranch” he deflected to the fire.

Looking back.....he did it give a location because there are small properties all over.

[Linked Image from texashuntingforum.com]


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

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The outfitter seems to be answering your questions without really answering them, no specifics.

I'd want to do a map recon before being there and I can't think that someone with nothing to hide wouldn't provide that information to incoming clients. A prepared client is likely to be a successful/happy client.

I have experienced pushback from locals who were upset that I was granted access to land that they didn't have access to. Particularly so when the ranch blocked the best/easiest access to public land in the area, even though I was hunting on the deeded land and not on the public land.

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It's hard to say if the outfitter was purposefully answering the questions without really answering them.

Some people's heads just operate that way. I deal with it on a daily basis at work. You ask about X and Y, they respond with info about X-Y.

Last edited by T_Inman; 11/12/20. Reason: "heads" isn't possessive...


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Originally Posted by T_Inman

Some people's head's just operate that way. I deal with it on a daily basis at work. You ask about X and Y, they respond with info about X-Y.


You work with my wife?? If so, you left out A, B, C, and D.



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My bad, you need too work on how this hunt works for you...


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It's a shame you have to get your balls broke by trying to let other folks know about the outfitter you used and a hunt that did not meet expectations. You stated the mistakes you made by disregarding the red flags. That does not make you responsible for the rip off. I hope your next outfitted hunt will be fantastic. Good luck.


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I had a similar hunt several years ago in the same state. It was a public land hunt, with other hunters also using the area. My guide (who did know the country) eventually told me that the outfitter had "overbooked" during the Archery season and had pounded the elk, hard. One hunter had apparently wounded several bulls and had been allowed to continue hunting. We saw one bull elk while driving to the headquarters, and one on the second to last day of the hunt. Weather conditions did nothing to help, nor did miles of daily walking spotting and hiking looking for sign. After returning home, I wrote the fish and game, and the NM Outfitters Association. Not long after the hunt the outfitter went out of business. I have been on three guided hunts in my lifetime, and have seen two elk neither a shooting situation. Its really hard to judge what your getting into, up front,

Last edited by elkmen1; 12/31/20.
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Sorry to hear about your experience, this is what worries me about ever trying to book a hunt out west. I'll take my chances on public land.

If you are interested, I am booking a cow elk hunt in the next 6 weeks in West Texas that is a free range herd (large ranch). Guide says no kill no pay and said the hunt can be done in one day.

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When this thread started, a friend and I had already booked a cow elk hunt with Luna Canyon. What the OP said was alarming.

My experience was excellent. We hunted hard for three days and I was rewarded with a huge cow elk. My friend saw numerous
cow elk but nothing got within range. We both enjoyed the hunt greatly and my friend plans to schedule another hunt in 2021.
Everything that was promised was delivered.

While we never met James, he was on an aoudad hunt in southern New Mexico, our guide was a local resident and very
knowledgeable of the area. He was easy to get along with and had a very good personality. He worked very hard to make the
hunt a success.

I am not contesting what the OP said. I am just briefly stating what my experience was on my hunt.


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Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.

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This is exactly why I withheld judgment in my original post on this thread.

The OP has responded with very reasonable and seemingly honest responses, but who knows what he was really like in the field and if his expectations were what most people would consider reasonable. It is so hard to get a good feel for people by just reading what they type.

Maybe different guides were used. Maybe boliep just got lucky with his timing. There's lots of variables to consider and is why I didn't immediately "take sides". I do wish the OP had a better experience but for those of us just reading this here online, forming a conclusion just isn't practical.

I will say though, never having experience with it, the E plus system is something I'd just assume avoid.



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In most units E-Plus is not as much of a problem. The special management units can get a bit messy since most of the properties are small and RO.

Unfortunately, you do not have to be licensed/ insured to guide/outfit on private as long as you claim you are acting as an agent to the LO. This is how this “outfitter” is able to have hunters even with multiple game violations.

There is a pretty big push going now to restructure E-Plus, but obviously the outfitting industry is crying foul.

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I grew up and still live on the AZ/NM border in elk country and have hunted this area and in NM all my hunting life. I'm not a big fan of the NM landowner tag deal but have talked to several landowners that get tags and several people that have bought the landowner tags both guided and unguided, and the stories rate from 0-10 on a 1-10 scale, so you really have to do your homework to make sure you get a good area and a good deal.

I myself would never buy a landowner tag and have relied on the draw in both AZ and NM and have taken probably a dozen or more bulls and a few cows as have both of my sons. If I lived out of state I would determine the better areas, put in for the luck of the draw, and then go scout if I was drawn......I know thats easier said than done if you're 500 miles away though.


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