Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics When Does Dialing Start to Make Sense?

I’m getting ready for a spot-and-stalk bear hunt in August 2021. I’ve been told to expect shots out to 400 yards.

I’ll likely use a 30-06 with 180-grain bullets because that's what I have. I have no trouble getting hits quickly out to 300 by holding over, but I haven’t shot beyond that in quite some time. The plan is to load up a ton of ammo and spend a lot of time on the range locking down zeros, working out dope, and generally getting ready between now and then.

I’ve got a Leupold VXR 3-9x40 with the Ballistic Firedot reticle. I’ve been able to hit 6” steel out to 425 with this scope/reticle on a different 30-06, but that was from a bench I had plenty of time to figure out holds/drops. I would not dial with this scope, but use the reticle to hold over.

I'm also considering whether to switch to something like a SWFA 3-9x43 and dial. I did some dialing out to around 800m with a Leupold Ultra M3A 10×42mm on M-24 prototypes in the military but that was long ago and I’m badly out of date on current practices.

Should I try to hold over for this hunt or should I dial?

Thanks,


Okie John

If it’s beyond PBR, I’m dialing.

My opinion is I zero most all of my long guns from 223 up to 375 at around 250 yards. Gives me a 0-300 yard no brainer shoot without having to think. In my little brain, once they cross the 300 yard mark, it only takes me a 1/2 a second to reference a range card or a tape on the turret to put the round as on point as I can shoot. I just naturally shoot better and faster if I use the main center of the reticle, maybe using a windage mark or two if wind is a thing. Some folks like using a reticle for holdover and if it works, then I'd say stick with it, but I don't generally waste a bunch of time dialing a mil or whatever and getting to aiming the rifle. It is reassuring to me the rifle will put the round exactly where I tell it to at any yardage if my zero and atmospherics are good.

The 3x9 is simply a fantastic hunting scope in my opinion. Honestly with the turret tapes like DF uses you really only need a dope chart to access if you're dealing with wind.

I'm no expert, but given a choice between guessing or holding dead on...... I'd want to dial.
Especially when time is a factor... with the SWFA reticle you wouldn't even need to dial if things happen quickly.
Your paying a lot for a guided hunt, give yourself the best odds to succeed,

Got in a few minutes ago from verifying my 7 Mashburn, one shot at 100, GTG, dialed to 500, GTG, dialed to 700 GTG, dialed back to 3 MOA, that's dead on at 300 yards for a 160gr accubond leaving at 3220, can kill out to 350 yards with center body hold without worrying about hold over or more dialing, dope card taped to stock if need to go longer.

I think I can see where this is headed.

Looks like I'll be sending more money to SWFA....


Okie John

Pic the optic you like but the NF, SWFA, and similar are sure bets. To me and this is just me but finding the specific mark on a MQ reticle isn’t much, if any faster than just dialing and getting on point. I know that I’m probably the anomaly but it’s the way my brain works.

It certainly doesn’t suck to have the bullet hit on point to where you’re aiming either if you trip the shot decently.

Their 1x6 SS HD ain’t a bad option either if it fits your rifle and shooting style. Being illuminated kinda makes them pretty awesome on a hunting gun and the reticle offers good precision for even longer shooting.

I've found ballistic reticles to be a good tool for shots beyond PBR. If you get the data right, the charts are so close as to make shots to well past 400 a snap. I've only ever been about 1/4 MOA off on shots on animals using a ballistic reticle.

Dialing isn't my thing. I tried it, and for hunting, I don't like it. For one thing, taking my eyes off the animals to dick with my scope dope isn't good.

I totally agree HNS, but my problem is making a reticle line up for something like a 300 RUM blasting a 180 at 3350-3400. I tried to mess around with the 6x36 with dots and everytime I'd end up with a random yardage somewhere that just doesn't work out for me. I think Ballistic reticles are great if they work for you though, and I agree about taking your eyes off the animal but again, for me, if I am shooting past 400 yards, the animal has to stick around long enough for me to get prone anyhow, so zipping my turret to 1 mil while I am getting settled in doesn't take any extra time for me.

Okie,

Beyond 500 yds is my current thinking. Ballistic reticles do fine out to that range. Contrary to internet wisdom, shots in the field beyond 300 yds is a long shot, and enough things can go wrong. Wind estimation is the biggest. All the Kestrals in the world won't tell a guy what the wind is doing 300 yds away or further.

Another is time. Range, hold on the ballistic reticle and shoot. If a bear is foraging he may be in and out of view in the brush at various ranges.

I've been randomly lucky in that regard in the field, but I agree with the criticism of the system. With something shooting that flat, I would zero at 300 for sure, but still, a bit of "Kentucky elevation" is always going to be required. I was concerned the first time I had to shoot beyond 400, but it was so easy to "guess" where to put the reticle, and the bullet went right where I wanted. By the fifth time, with three different rifles and three different trajectories, and still having to remember a "chart" of drops and windage, I decided that it works better for me.

I get that dialing is ideal for some, and I can see situations where it would be ideal for me, just not from actual field use.

My dialing (with a repeatable scope) turned into a goatfuck both times (two different rifles) using an MOA dial. No fault of the system, just operator error. The first time, the buck was about 350 when I first saw him and ranged him, so I dialed for that, but by the time I got him back in the scope, he had run a ways, as he had busted us, and was 390 by the time I shot (I figured this out later), then about 410 when I shot again, and he died about 425, finally, after 4 hits, all marginally low. I was having to use Kentucky elevation anyway, as I didn't have time to range him again, and after hitting him with the first shot (poorly, through the brisket, but put bullet and bone fragments into his heart), I couldn't let him just keep on running away.

Makes sense to me.

My personal experience with coyotes is ballistic reticles to 500 as they don't stick around long. I'm calling them, they are focused in my direction and reaching up to dial elevation or parallax it is a good way to spook a coyote. If I can't get them closer than 500 there is something wrong with the set up. A 2-12x40 scope no parallax or dials is ideal for me in open country.. I so rarely get a shot at a coyote over 500 that it isn't worth the money and effort to set up a rifle for those, coyotes at 10 yrds are far more common.

Retards lamenting their Dumbfhuqktitude,Inabilities and Schit Riggin',is never not fhuqking HILARIOUS! Hint. Congratulations?!?

Very EASY to connect mechanical dots and do the platform it's greatest justice as an opening move. I cain't think of a single fhuqking rifle,that's zero'd higher than +.5 Mil at the 100yd line and I'm talking more than a fhuqking "few" platforms. This negates midrange woe,allows the inherent ability to thread needles and when conjoined with Beaver Dope,is simply mind numbingly without peer. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

"Ballistic" Reticles are non-lineal pieces of fhuqking schit,which don't even jive their own erector's,which is funnier than fhuqk,though Drooltards swoon 'em. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

MOA is counter intuitive,as compared to a Base 10 System. So it's slower to incorporate and muddles Wind Readings. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

With an erector and reticle of like language,it'll only "surprise" The Resident Fhuqking RETARDS,that you needn't flap your wings,nor remove boots to input a correction. With a lineal Base 10 Scale,you can Deal Death however mood strikes. Simply look through the fhuqking thing,or dial a correction or portions of both if mood strikes,as long as the sum is 100% of DOPE. Nothing is faster or more Precise. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

Had a pard's Wife yesterday,blowing her own mind at the 600yd line,with my 18" 270 and 105 'Max ala 1-6x HD. She'd never shot but half that far in her life before and couldn't miss. Though it could go NO other way. Hint.

I rather enjoy you Drooling Fhuqktards by being stumped with input,prior to a rifle hitting the shoulder! The distances thus far mused are SCANT corrections. I'm less than 30 minutes removed,from shooting a coupla 22LR's MUCH further. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

It's never been difficult to KNOW who shoots and who don't and it remains funnier than fhuqk that the Don'ters espouse their CLUELESS Fhuqking Stupidity.Hint.

Bless their hearts for trying though.

Hint.

LAUGHING!..................

I'd rather dial if the shot is past MPBR. On a big SWFA dial, I scribed the elevation turret on one of my rifles:

Shot at those ranges and knew it was dead on. To me, that is far faster and easier to just turn the dial, then to mess around with a ballistic reticle. If you are practicing like you should in the down time, then you should be shooting targets from near to far and turning that dial in practice. After a while it is like second nature. Just be damned sure you have a reliable tracking scope. I think the op is wise to look at SWFA or a NF, because they track very reliably. I ended up selling that rifle and scope package to a co worker of mine and he uses it. He's pretty new to shooting, but he's getting pretty damn good at ranging stuff and turning the dial and ringing steel with it. He laughs and says "this isn't hard at all"... He was shooting with my boss and my bosses father in law, who spares no expense in rifles, and they shot some steel plate at 850 yards. He hit the plates 3 for 3 shots with the old girl I sold him, put the rifle away and said he was done. My boss and his father in law were shooting and shooting, trying to get on target. My boss using a $2,000.00 VX6 with CDS on his 300wm, took about 10 shots to get on target, finding his CDS was not working as it should.. Who would have thunk that? His FIL using a $7,000.00 rifle from a company that uses Huskema scopes and fine tuned hand loads just for that rifle. Never did hit the target... Later finding out he had rotated the dial 1 revolution too much.. Dialing can be a chidt show like huntnshoot outlined in an ealier post, but shouldn't be, if one practices with his chidt and becomes proficient...

And in that situation, a shotgun works best.. I thought the op was asking about a bear hunt?

Jeezus Fhuqk the unbridled STUPIDITY,is simply fhuqking AMAZING! Hint. Congratulations?!?

Kitty Cat scratches sprinkled on a turret?!? Fhuqking HILARIOUS! Might there be like marks on your Speedometer,Clock Face and Measuring Tape,to make them "better" too?!? Hint. LAUGHING!!!!

A gal who "knows" and "does" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Your sheer and utter RETARDATION is simply fhuqking MAGNIFICENT! Hint. LAUGHING!

Bless your heart for TRYING though.

Hint.

LAUGHING!................




Should add,if only for the astute,who actually shoot,that if'n you cite a given platform's particulars,it's VERY easy to connect dots with a sane zero,a literal Wind Range DETERMINER and then simply apply to DOPE to say a 6x MQ Fixed Fhuqker.

Hint.

You'll be led to water..............

Yup, this. Visually counting hashmarks on the reticle (even reticles that have numbered hashes) is certainly not faster than dialing to a number on the turret, for most people. This is assuming a single target at a single distance. If engaging multiple targets at various distances with one shot each, holding can be faster, but this is rarely the case when hunting. Add a little wind and you usually want to be holding the horizontal cross hair on the POA.

It's easy to zero at 100 and then dial for MPBR by dialing up for 250 or so. Beyond 300ish you'll need to dial more.

You have to take your eyes off the animal when you pull your LRF up to your eye, or when you glass the critter with a bino or spotter, anyway. I would wager that finding the animal in the RF bino and then ranging it at the same time, dialing the DOPE into the ele. turret, and getting on the scope holding center crosshair is faster than finding, ranging, and then trying to decide which part of the reticle to hold on the POA. I've seen it many times in the hunting fields and in competition. Holding center crosshair avoids the visual confusion of trying to decide which hashmark to use. Add wind into the equation, and things only get worse for the guy using holdover.

But if your system works for you, carry on!

When I mention ballistic reticles I’m referring to reticles such as the Leupy dots or B&C, Burris’s reticle on the FF II’s or the Maven reticle.

The reticles with a few dozen hash marks on them are plumb confusing.....