My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
if you have emptied your rifle on a bear charging you you will MOST LIKELY not have time for the back up, bears cover ground fast. I don't carry a "backup" when I hunt them. I only carry a pistol in bear country when I am NOT hunting them and I don't carry a, 357. Bear protection for me begins at .44. even it is only black bears as found on POW
I think why my nephew was suggest it was because in addition to bear hunting, we would be doing some fishing although I don't know what kind of fishing there is to done in May. Salmon? Are there rivers or lakes on POW with other fish? Trout?
My brother in law (the father of my nephew), suggested that I should take his handgun which he claims is much better than a .357 magnum. He owns a Glock 20 which is a 10mm Auto and I mention this because of the small amount of research I have done about back up Alaska guns and if this particular automatic is acceptable or even should be considered compared to a revolver.
My brother in law (the father of my nephew), suggested that I should take his handgun which he claims is much better than a .357 magnum. He owns a Glock 20 which is a 10mm Auto and I mention this because of the small amount of research I have done about back up Alaska guns and if this particular automatic is acceptable or even should be considered compared to a revolver.
The 10mm will work and so would your 9mm. Phil Shoemaker used a 9mm with 147 grain hardcasts from Buffalo Bore to stop and kill a 900 pound brown bear
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim. And in all the testing I did with various handguns and assuming equal quality bullets, I would rate the 357 and the 10 mm as virtual equals, so pick the one you are most comfortable with.
The handgun would be for days that I am not hunting for bear but were in the area where bear may be located. I would hope I could kill a bear with a rifle. I wouldn't think about trying to tackle a bear with a handgun. I am most comfortable with the 357 since I have owned it and shot it for years. I assume that the effectiveness of the caliber can be improved by selecting ammunition for this circumstance? Something that would penetrate? Would it be wise to invest in a larger caliber?
The handgun would be for days that I am not hunting for bear but were in the area where bear may be located. I would hope I could kill a bear with a rifle. I wouldn't think about trying to tackle a bear with a handgun. I am most comfortable with the 357 since I have owned it and shot it for years. I assume that the effectiveness of the caliber can be improved by selecting ammunition for this circumstance? Something that would penetrate? Would it be wise to invest in a larger caliber?
If you've got a 357 and are comfortable with it, get some heavy full-magnum loads using heavy bullets (at least 180 grains). It will work if you can shoot it.
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Cartridge Co. both make "heavy" .357 loads with 180 gr. hard cast FN bullets that would be the cat's meow for what you are planning.
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
Thanks for all the information. Since the hunt is more than a few months away, I will start looking into the possibilities of making the .357 as potent as possible for the Alaska trip coming up.
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Cartridge Co. both make "heavy" .357 loads with 180 gr. hard cast FN bullets that would be the cat's meow for what you are planning.
You will be fine w the .357. I’ve carried mine in similar circumstances and had no worries.
The key as you indicated as well as others, is bullet selection. 180 gr hard cast hand loads or from one of the above mfgs is your huckleberry.
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim. And in all the testing I did with various handguns and assuming equal quality bullets, I would rate the 357 and the 10 mm as virtual equals, so pick the one you are most comfortable with.
Phil I recall you have posted a pic of your wife in the cabin kitchen w a .357 holstered at her back?
180 HC in that?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
I don't know squat about handguns and their potential to kill (other than a .38 Special on a mountain lion), but I must ask: you realize as a non-resident you need to draw to hunt bear on POW don't you? From the sounds of your post you're making me think that you're assuming it is a registration or hunt ticket hunt. The spring 2022 application period is open right now FYI....and this isn't a real high odds draw. It's not a unicorn tag, but not an unlimited tag either.
I personally wouldn't carry a handgun as backup, even when not primarily bear hunting. Black bears (or even griz) are rarely aggressive especially in spring, though they can be if you're near their food source. I'd be more inclined to carry a .22 LR pistol while fishing for any grouse that want to show up, if they're in season when you're there. Birds there may close on April 30th...I'm not too sure.
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim. And in all the testing I did with various handguns and assuming equal quality bullets, I would rate the 357 and the 10 mm as virtual equals, so pick the one you are most comfortable with.
Phil I recall you have posted a pic of your wife in the cabin kitchen w a .357 holstered at her back?
180 HC in that?
Yes, that is what she, my daughter and even I carry most of the time
According to Heim Korth in the book "The Final Frontiersman" I would follow the advise: Before taking a handgun into bear country make sure that the front sight is filed off. Because it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up your arse.
On the other hand: In a case of immediate emergency even the 357 Magnum might help:
Not Akpendude and don't know anything about Alaska bears. But for running bears with hounds and killing them in close quarters, I use Underwood 220 gr. hard cast in my Glock 40. It's a very stout round at 1200+ fps.
According to Heim Korth in the book "The Final Frontiersman" I would follow the advise: Before taking a handgun into bear country make sure that the front sight is filed off. Because it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up your arse.
On the other hand: In a case of immediate emergency even the 357 Magnum might help:
I think you’ll be fine not carrying a pistol for backup. 😉
I wouldn’t throw my rifle down and Wild Bill Hickok a charging bear.
I never carry a handgun if I'm carrying a rifle. OTOH when we go back to camp after shooting game and get all the stuff to clean etc... I swap the rifle for a handgun...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
You don't need a special gun to kill bears. A handgun is used for personal protection when you're not carrying your rifle. If you'll ever put your rifle down for any reason, it is sensible to have a handgun. I live and camp around bears, but they are hardly my foremost concern. Still, I carry a handgun every day, not a rifle. When I go to sleep in camp, it's not a rifle that's in my sleeping bag, but a handgun. When you're camping or hunting with others, it can be another person who gets in trouble and it might be when you didn't think you needed to have your rifle. They might appreciate it if you weren't unarmed.
I suggest carrying the handgun that you're most proficient with. Personally, I carry a 357 Magnum revolver and that's what I devote all my practice to. However, it's better to be armed with a 9mm pistol with which you are proficient than to be armed with an unfamiliar gun. I would be much less concerned about a bunch of 9mm hits failing on a bear or moose than I would be about fumbling around with an unfamiliar "bear" gun with which I might manage to get off one shot that misses.
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim. And in all the testing I did with various handguns and assuming equal quality bullets, I would rate the 357 and the 10 mm as virtual equals, so pick the one you are most comfortable with.
Phil I recall you have posted a pic of your wife in the cabin kitchen w a .357 holstered at her back?
180 HC in that?
Yes, that is what she, my daughter and even I carry most of the time
Its what I carry too all year round. 44 mag is too heavy in the parka pocket. I can't run the dog team up hills with a 44 mag. Little sp 101, no problem. I get charged by grumpy winter moose at least once a season. One dog, Rickus got stomped to sleep. 357 will stop that sht quick.
This season, last two shots out the barrel was in September. A finishing shot in the neck of a big bull moose. The 180 swift A-frame went clear through neck, and found against the hide.
9 days before that, shot a beaver with small game/357 load that provided camp meat for the entire moose hunt.
357 is more than just a bear protection gun, its an all season essential up here.
You don't need a special gun to kill bears. A handgun is used for personal protection when you're not carrying your rifle. If you'll ever put your rifle down for any reason, it is sensible to have a handgun. I live and camp around bears, but they are hardly my foremost concern. Still, I carry a handgun every day, not a rifle. When I go to sleep in camp, it's not a rifle that's in my sleeping bag, but a handgun. When you're camping or hunting with others, it can be another person who gets in trouble and it might be when you didn't think you needed to have your rifle. They might appreciate it if you weren't unarmed.
I suggest carrying the handgun that you're most proficient with. Personally, I carry a 357 Magnum revolver and that's what I devote all my practice to. However, it's better to be armed with a 9mm pistol with which you are proficient than to be armed with an unfamiliar gun. I would be much less concerned about a bunch of 9mm hits failing on a bear or moose than I would be about fumbling around with an unfamiliar "bear" gun with which I might manage to get off one shot that misses.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
IIRC, your reasoning was sufficient penetration with less recoil than other hand cannons for quicker reacquisition of the target?
Exactly, only hits count ! And multiple rapid hits, even from a small caliber, are better than a miss with an unfamiliar hand Cannon.
And as for those who claim a 357 is worthless, I can only tell them the same thing I say to those who claim the 30-06 is ineffective.
I carried my S&W M65 .357 for years and tested its penetration on large bear carcasses killed by my clients and knew the 180 gr FN jacket bullets would penetrate. I gave it to my daughter when she turned 16 and she has carried it now for over 20 years. I found a M29 44 Mtn Gun and carried it for most of that time but occasionally packed a blued steel M13 357, and on the fateful day, my S&W 9mm. I find that now I am in my 70's I prefer the lighter weight of the 357 as I carry it all day.
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Cartridge Co. both make "heavy" .357 loads with 180 gr. hard cast FN bullets that would be the cat's meow for what you are planning.
You may need a taller front sight with 180's. My .357 FA needed a taller one. FA knew exactly what I needed and with that gun, it's just an Allen wrench and a simple swap.
T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
And with a smidgen of unique powder, any ole fmj, stacks the cache full o small game as well. So add versatility with the gusto if you don't mind:
If in that situation, I have a couple of candidates, the Glock 40 would need a chest type holster. The FA .357 would be handier.
If a big one was after me, I'd feel better armed with the Glock. But, a cool head like Phil, probably wouldn't matter, although IIRC, he was down to his last 9mm round... Don't think he'd have had time to reload the FA. That could take a minute or so when seconds count... The G-40 surely wins the firepower race, especially with extra clip(s)....
Shot my one and only bear (black) with a S&W 686. I was reloading, but loaded with 140 JHP's. No longer use HP's for hunting. Took 5 shots to kill him - a just why of 6' boar.
I was out deer hunting and blew the fawn beat/distress call. This was late Oct. Something was coming in hard thru the brush - of course I was thinking buck. Didn't see him till he was less than 10 yds away. Opened fire and hit him. He starting heading away bawling. I had to track him down and finish him off. Went to Fred Meyers and bought a S&W 629 a few week later.
I've been known to pack both rifle and pistol while out hunting solo. When you're boning out a deer, you have your loaded rifle in close proximity, but if you got jumped my El Bruno, you may not be able to reach your rifle. Your pistol is on your hip.
Sorry for the slow response. Simply, I work all day and don't have time until evening to read and respond to the comments that have been given. As I had stated before, I know next to nothing about hunting bear in Alaska or more specifically, Prince of Wales. I do know that there are a limited number of tags although I do not know what are the chances of getting one. I guess I am just a little excited about the prospect of going to Alaska and just want to be prepared as much as I can if I am lucky enough get a bear tag. I didn't realize that my lack of a prompt response would generate concern of the "legality" of what I was hoping to do in May. I posted a simple, honest question. To those who answered that question in any way, thank you very much. It has been very informative and educational.
If in that situation, I have a couple of candidates, the Glock 40 would need a chest type holster. The FA .357 would be handier.
If a big one was after me, I'd feel better armed with the Glock. But, a cool head like Phil, probably wouldn't matter, although IIRC, he was down to his last 9mm round... Don't think he'd have had time to reload the FA. That could take a minute or so when seconds count... The G-40 surely wins the firepower race, especially with extra clip(s)....
DF
G40s use clips now? LMAO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I'm still trying to figure out how you think a 10mm is a better round than a 357? Not that I think 10 is undersized cause its what I carry 99 percent of the time.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I think why my nephew was suggest it was because in addition to bear hunting, we would be doing some fishing although I don't know what kind of fishing there is to done in May. Salmon? Are there rivers or lakes on POW with other fish? Trout?
On my second trip to Alaska I carried a handgun. It was comforting to have on me while I was fishing or otherwise could not have my rifle handy. My first day in AK and we had a close call with a big black bear and I was glad I had it with me. I am in the beginning stages of planning my 3rd and probably last trip now and will most likely be bringing a handgun again. I say bring your .357
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I have an NOE mold that casts 235gr LFN .360" bullets. In a 357, I get them close to 1100 fps. Riddle me this: what bullet can you shoot in your 44 that will give you the same penetration on a very large animal? What bullet could you shoot in a 10mm that would give you the same penetration?
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I will have to let my son know the moose, caribou, brown bear, black bears, mountain goat, blacktails, and such should not have died from such an inadequate round, especially considering his preference for 80gr bullets...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
If in that situation, I have a couple of candidates, the Glock 40 would need a chest type holster. The FA .357 would be handier.
If a big one was after me, I'd feel better armed with the Glock. But, a cool head like Phil, probably wouldn't matter, although IIRC, he was down to his last 9mm round... Don't think he'd have had time to reload the FA. That could take a minute or so when seconds count... The G-40 surely wins the firepower race, especially with extra clip(s)....
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I will have to let my son know the moose, caribou, brown bear, black bears, mountain goat, blacktails, and such should not have died from such an inadequate round, especially considering his preference for 80gr bullets...
Yeah, but he's a stunt shooter who doesn't "respect the game animals."
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I will have to let my son know the moose, caribou, brown bear, black bears, mountain goat, blacktails, and such should not have died from such an inadequate round, especially considering his preference for 80gr bullets...
Yeah, but he's a stunt shooter who doesn't "respect the game animals."
He’s kinda not!
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
According to Heim Korth in the book "The Final Frontiersman" I would follow the advise: Before taking a handgun into bear country make sure that the front sight is filed off. Because it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up your arse.
On the other hand: In a case of immediate emergency even the 357 Magnum might help:
T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
And with a smidgen of unique powder, any ole fmj, stacks the cache full o small game as well. So add versatility with the gusto if you don't mind:
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I will have to let my son know the moose, caribou, brown bear, black bears, mountain goat, blacktails, and such should not have died from such an inadequate round, especially considering his preference for 80gr bullets...
Yeah, but he's a stunt shooter who doesn't "respect the game animals."
Trusting the parentheses denote sarcasm and will let that ride.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
My nephew, who lived in Ketchikan, has offered to take me bear hunting on Prince of Wales next May. He suggested that in addition to bringing a rifle for the hunt, that I should bring a handgun as a backup just in case. The only handgun, other than a 9mm that I own, is a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. Is that potent enough for the bear located on the island? Do I really need a backup gun? I have hunted deer, elk and antelope but I never have hunted bear nor have I been to Prince of Wales so any suggestions will be much appreciated. Thanks.
So .. I carry a handgun to back up my rifle IFF I am packing a questionably adequate, or questionably reliable, rifle. I grew up in a black bear preserve where we might run into up to a dozen or so in a day. It was along a river where the fishing guides, raft "guides", and some of the tour operators put out garbage to draw the bears in for their customers to take pictures so we had a lot of bears conditioned not to run from humans. If I was deer hunting with my dad's .25-20, or my .223, then you bet, I packed my .44 for bears. Similarly, when I hunt with a muzzleloader, I carry a .44 for "backup".
I don't have any faith in the .357 for that use. It is a paperweight. Better than nothing, I guess, but since i have better, when I carry a .357, I carry a .44 to back it up with.
Today, if I'm hunting with a good centerfire rifle, my dividing line falls around the .257 Roberts and .25-'06. Smaller than them, I definitely carry a backup. With them ... maybe, maybe not. Bigger ... why bother?
I saw your later post ... fishing, not packing your rifle? I would not want to rely on the .357. I'd take your relative's offer of loan of the 10mm. It's not ideal, but if you just have black bears, it's "better". IMHO. A .44 magnum is like an '06. It's the yardstick ... for a reason.
Tom
I will have to let my son know the moose, caribou, brown bear, black bears, mountain goat, blacktails, and such should not have died from such an inadequate round, especially considering his preference for 80gr bullets...
Yeah, but he's a stunt shooter who doesn't "respect the game animals."
Trusting the parentheses denote sarcasm and will let that ride.
Hemorrhoids acting up, or just too much coffee? Those of us who have been here for some years know well your son's successes with a 25-06 and 80 gr TTSX.
The conversations about sensible minimums here on the Fire nearly always contain the same ridiculous hyperbole and irrational illogic.
T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
And with a smidgen of unique powder, any ole fmj, stacks the cache full o small game as well. So add versatility with the gusto if you don't mind:
What are the grips on the one with the red dot
Grip is a pachmeyer. The original sp 101 grip leaves the middle finger knuckle exposed to the metal trigger guard. It would bite yah hard with 180s. I need a fast middle finger, because I flip off many people of the world on a dailey basis, so can't have a sore middle finger. Its a mission critical digit. The pachmeyer grip is better for hard recoiling rounds.
The little reflex sight weighs 1 oz. If I could find target sights, I wouldn't need the reflex. Ruger sights are too course for precision work on small game. So the reflex sight is skookum for hitting a swimming beaver in the head at 20 yds.
If you want a hand gun, I would take the 357 you already have. Even if I was buying a gun for bear I would take a double action, 4 inch barreled 357 revolver over a 10mm. Load it with large meplat hard cast bullets on the slow and heavy side.
There are no brown bears on POW. Hunting on the backside of Revillagigedo I had a mid sized (about 250 pounds) black bear come within 15 feet. It was just curious as we were in some think alders on an overgrown logging road and down wind. Yelling did nothing, but as soon as I started closing distance he ran off. I have a friend that called a solo goat hunt early because two black bear bores started stalking him. Almost all black bear attacks are predatory and can be avoided by paying attention, they are also incredibly rare. Browns are a different story, and browns are what most people think of when thinking of bears in Alaska. I would be comfortable on POW or Revillagigedo without a handgun for bears, I worry about two legged critters more.
[quote=mainer_in_ak]T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
Hey mainer, what is the MD# of that Ruger you got there,,,,, Pretty Slick, @ 28oz. I'd like to find one, let me know, when you get a chance..... Lj
My time on POW was about thirty five years ago and things might be/probably are changed now. At that time, while not often, it was still occasionally possible to encounter grizzly sized blacks on the island. I personally witnessed the weighing (on LP scales, I assume to be accurate) a 440 lb bruiser that my pal had shot. If Phil says a .357 is adequate, then you could take that to the bank as gold advice, however, I would FEEL better with my .45 Blackhawk loaded hot with Buffalo Bore. That’s if you needed a backup at all, I’d just keep my rifle within close reach all the time. YMMV
[quote=mainer_in_ak]T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
Hey mainer, what is the MD# of that Ruger you got there,,,,, Pretty Slick, @ 28oz. I'd like to find one, let me know, when you get a chance..... Lj
Just like my bugger cockeyed 77s (ruger hawkeye 77s)
This little sloppy jalopy needed some work: new ismi springs, grip and sights. I also had to countour some meat off the front of the barrel to get balance right. Factory springs were absurdly heavy on both double and single action pull.
If you look closely, the front sight is filed off flush, so that it doesn't tear open my parka pocket. And supposedly, if a bear tries to shove it up my ass, it won't hurt as bad.
[quote=mainer_in_ak]T_O_M, This is what a 180 swift looks like after driven square through 16 inches the neck of a 55.75" antlered bull moose at 1200 fps, found against offside hide:
Lotta gusto from a 28oz pistol that fits in my pocket:
Hey mainer, what is the MD# of that Ruger you got there,,,,, Pretty Slick, @ 28oz. I'd like to find one, let me know, when you get a chance..... Lj
Just like my bugger cockeyed 77s (ruger hawkeye 77s)
This little sloppy jalopy needed some work: new ismi springs, grip and sights. I also had to countour some meat off the front of the barrel to get balance right. Factory springs were absurdly heavy on both double and single action pull.
If you look closely, the front sight is filed off flush, so that it doesn't tear open my parka pocket. And supposedly, if a bear tries to shove it up my ass, it won't hurt as bad.
There is NO WAY I would ever want to depend on a .357 magnum for bear defense. NO WAY!
Give me at least a 44 magnum or larger.
Given the right bullets, I don't see an issue with a 357, particularly on black bears, even huge, fat black bears. I'm far better at fast follow-ups shooting super-heavyweight bullets in 357 than I am shooting larger, more powerful rounds. And with the right bullet, the 357 has plenty of penetration. I long ago came to the conclusion that if you pick the right bullet, and can put it where it needs to go, you can do just fine with far less firepower than most would believe. I keep on repeatedly proving it to myself and those I hunt with.
Would you rather get slammed by a black dick or a white dick. Now there are different sizes of both.....not everyone is built the same. A heavy 357 might do better than a light 44. As always, it depends on the operator.
Have bear hunted POW, now elk/deer hunt in griz country, and a lot of training indicates the EFFECTIVE transition from long gun to handgun is sketchy under pressure.
Have to agree with MOST of the posts here. If you don't kill it with the long gun, chances are it will be eating you before you can do anything other than die.
HOWEVER...I do know a young man that saved his own bacon last spring while shed hunting up East Fork. Had a .(borrowed) 357 mag, was attacked in creek bottom by sow griz, she was happily chewing away when he managed to put a couple 357 mag rounds into her, one of which took took her out. I know the young man that was with him, the G&F Officer that was first on scene, and saw the photos of his extensive injuries. He is one lucky guy.
So, take from that what you will. I always consider the handgun a last resort, just like that young man.
What can you hit with I'd say. Probably something like Buffalo Bore HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN with the 180 grain cast. The need being to drive deeply through bones into vitals. I look at the front of a bear, lots of heavy bone and tight muscle.
This is and area I don't know. Giant black bear. But I think I'd prefer a 41 mag with a 265 grain WFN cast. Like Buffalo Bore HEAVY .41 MAGNUM OUTDOORSMAN.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Cartridge Co. both make "heavy" .357 loads with 180 gr. hard cast FN bullets that would be the cat's meow for what you are planning.
You may need a taller front sight with 180's. My .357 FA needed a taller one. FA knew exactly what I needed and with that gun, it's just an Allen wrench and a simple swap.
God bless Texas----------------------- Old 300 I will remain what i am until the day I die- A HUNTER......Sitting Bull Its not how you pick the booger.. but where you put it !! Roger V Hunter
I think you’ll be fine not carrying a pistol for backup. 😉
I wouldn’t throw my rifle down and Wild Bill Hickok a charging bear.
I never carry a handgun if I'm carrying a rifle. OTOH when we go back to camp after shooting game and get all the stuff to clean etc... I swap the rifle for a handgun...
I just remembered to check this thread and got as far as your post, Jeff, but apparently once again we are similar. 😁. When I hunt with a rifle I’ll carry my Ruger 22/45 for grouse and general duty. When fishing, collecting wood or other chores that preclude the carrying of a rifle I carry a Glock 20 with either 200gr HC or 220 hardcast. As accurate as my 22/45 is and considering how well I shoot it, I don’t feel under gunned when I carry it.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
Came around a corner on an old POW logging road and ran into a large bears first dump of the year!!! Looked at my little 308 and then back at that giant pile of crap and thought holy hell I'm under gunned!!! It was quite impressive and a bit intimidating!!! I be t the bear was quite "relieved"! Don't forget a wolf tag if it's open while you're there.
That 180gr Buffalo Bore looks like serious medicine for the .357! 780 ft. lbs. But there is no replacement for displacement. If I was hunting with a pistol I'd be packing my Redhawk loaded with hard cast. As for packing a pistol while hunting with a rifle on POW, no. If I was going along as a packer for someone and I didn't want to tote a rifle or to just have camp protection I'd be OK with the 357. But with the opportunity to snipe a wolf while bear hunting I'd rather pack a rifle.
Ok,,,,, I've been doing alittle home-work on this Post, as I liked that .357 that -[mainer]- Posted-up, and it got me to thinking, so here is a comparison for you guys to look at, and since I pack a S&W 329PD .44Mag, that was the catalyst for this train of thought...... let me know your thoughts, or Not..... Lj
I don't know if I understand your question. I carry a S&W 60 3" .357 at times, a S&W 329PD at times, and a 4-5/8" barreled super blackhawk at times. Neither of the S&Ws are fun to shoot. The little Ruger is peppy but mostly manageable ... I carry it when I intend to shoot, I carry the others when I hope not to shoot but don't want to be without a gun.
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
I don't know if I understand your question. I carry a S&W 60 3" .357 at times, a S&W 329PD at times, and a 4-5/8" barreled super blackhawk at times. Neither of the S&Ws are fun to shoot. The little Ruger is peppy but mostly manageable ... I carry it when I intend to shoot, I carry the others when I hope not to shoot but don't want to be without a gun.
Tom
T_O_M,,,, Ok, not really a "Question", but more of an Observation if you will, as I said I liked that little .357 Ruger that -[mainer]- had posted about, but after my study on that possibility, it was clear that the S&W 329PD was the better choice, ie... 6-Rounds of .44Mag, physically about the same size, same Bbl length, and somewhat less weight to carry, again, just an actual comparison to what your pack-in,,,,, ie... the least amount of weight, with the best terminal performance.... Lj
Maybe I'm missing the point but I would darn sure rather carry a 44 Special (not a Charter Arms 44 Special) but there are some good ones, using the Buffalo bore ammo 255 grains at a 1000 fps, vs a 357 mag Buffalo Bore at 180 grain at 780fps. I think that's a good compromise. EIther a Taurus 431, or a GP100 3", maybe even a New Vaquero 4-5/8" and of course a couple of Smith's.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
Maybe I'm missing the point but I would darn sure rather carry a 44 Special (not a Charter Arms 44 Special) but there are some good ones, using the Buffalo bore ammo 255 grains at a 1000 fps, vs a 357 mag Buffalo Bore at 180 grain at 780fps. I think that's a good compromise. EIther a Taurus 431, or a GP100 3", maybe even a New Vaquero 4-5/8" and of course a couple of Smith's.
Maybe I'm missing the point but I would darn sure rather carry a 44 Special (not a Charter Arms 44 Special) but there are some good ones, using the Buffalo bore ammo 255 grains at a 1000 fps, vs a 357 mag Buffalo Bore at 180 grain at 780fps. I think that's a good compromise. EIther a Taurus 431, or a GP100 3", maybe even a New Vaquero 4-5/8" and of course a couple of Smith's.
The 180gr BB load is rated at 1400fps.
I had to check that too...... the buffalo bore is 780 ft pounds of energy at 1400fps. That works for me.
I've never had to use a handgun on bear, but I disagree with those that say if you fail with a rifle a pistol wont help. Thats simply not true. Just recently in southern BC a conservation officer was following a wounded grizzly with a rifle. The bear nailed him and knocked the rifle out of his hands. His 9mm saved his life. Lots of other stories that are similar. I always figured that if a bear was rolling me around, a handgun strapped to my leg would come in pretty handy.
We were working a moose kill and a grizzly came in on us. My rifle was out of reach but my
Originally Posted by yukon254
I've never had to use a handgun on bear, but I disagree with those that say if you fail with a rifle a pistol wont help. Thats simply not true. Just recently in southern BC a conservation officer was following a wounded grizzly with a rifle. The bear nailed him and knocked the rifle out of his hands. His 9mm saved his life. Lots of other stories that are similar. I always figured that if a bear was rolling me around, a handgun strapped to my leg would come in pretty handy.
I had a grizzly come in on us while working a moose kill. My rifle was out of reach but my revolver was in my shoulder holster.
A handgun in never a bad idea
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Maybe I'm missing the point but I would darn sure rather carry a 44 Special (not a Charter Arms 44 Special) but there are some good ones, using the Buffalo bore ammo 255 grains at a 1000 fps, vs a 357 mag Buffalo Bore at 180 grain at 780fps. I think that's a good compromise. EIther a Taurus 431, or a GP100 3", maybe even a New Vaquero 4-5/8" and of course a couple of Smith's.
The 180gr BB load is rated at 1400fps.
I had to check that too...... the buffalo bore is 780 ft pounds of energy at 1400fps. That works for me.
Thanks for the correction.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
I've never had to use a handgun on bear, but I disagree with those that say if you fail with a rifle a pistol wont help. Thats simply not true. Just recently in southern BC a conservation officer was following a wounded grizzly with a rifle. The bear nailed him and knocked the rifle out of his hands. His 9mm saved his life. Lots of other stories that are similar. I always figured that if a bear was rolling me around, a handgun strapped to my leg would come in pretty handy.
I had a grizzly come in on us while working a moose kill. My rifle was out of reach but my revolver was in my shoulder holster.
A handgun in never a bad idea
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
so I figured out today that most of the bears I hunt are smarter than 50% of the morons writing on those forums and more interesting than the 40% [bleep] left. So I write for the 10%
I have been giving "coup de grace" to numerous wounded black bears and sitka blacktail with a 10mm Auto. So far I use hornady 180grains XTP or Federal 180 grains JSP at +/- 1280 fps in my 5 inch barrel. its deadly and effective.
there is a GIGANTIC difference between hunting and defense or coup de grace.... when you hunt with a handgun you aim for the lungs. A 44 MAG or a 454 casual will be more efficient and will provide quicker kill than a 10mmauto or a 357 magnum because of the blow on tissues....
in a defense or coup de grace actions: what you want its be able to hit the brain or the spine and terminate as fast as possible your target. In this case the best cartridge is the one with you can hit with the first shot a relatively small target in comparison of lungs. then double tap or triple taps as fast as possible. last week I dispatched a big sitka deer with a broken and damaged kneecaps... I triple tap him when he jumped in the brush. My first shot hit him in the heart area, I missed the 2nd shot through the brush as he was moving away, but the first shot put in down, missed the 2nd and necked shot down on the 3rd. 10mmAuto. a 44 or a 454 casull would not have been more effective cause I would have not be able to shot as fast as I did.
when i bowhunt for bear,deer or i am in the woods if i don`t have a long gun i carry a pistol . 99 % of the time i just always carry a handgun every place i go,my truck always has a pistol in it. i feel the most dangerous place is in a big city and its not from a bear either. >my back up in the woods in northern Minnesota is a 357 Mag. Ruger revolver.
Folks trying hard to ignore the posters context. I took it as general carry backup for the rifle, including times you dont have a rifle in your hands. Too many bored old farts with high post counts these days looking for ways to pick questions apart. Especially against the new guy with low post count. I dont read a guy with 12 posts and assume he first fired a gun 12 days ago. He could have more experience than anyone.
If you don’t already have a tag your not hunting this coming May. They draw the tags out a year in advance. This app period you’d be applying for 2022.
Never heard of someone having to defend themselves from a bear on POW. Probably happened, just very rare. Never carried for bear defense there. Never felt the need.
My suggestion would be something light and comfortable to carry while fishing if you feel the need. Myself I carry my fishing rod and tackle.
I wonder about your relative and the suggestion of a side arm. Makes me think they have little experience.
Yes, that is what she, my daughter and even I carry most of the time
Phil, could you elaborate on specific models,etc ?
I gave my daughter a M 65 stainless S&W 4" barre w rounded butt. I have a M13, which is the same only blued steel and a M 66 stainless with adjustable sights.
My wife carries a Ruger 101 and my son a S&W M65 w/3" bbl.
Yes, that is what she, my daughter and even I carry most of the time
Phil, could you elaborate on specific models,etc ?
I gave my daughter a M 65 stainless S&W 4" barre w rounded butt. I have a M13, which is the same only blued steel and a M 66 stainless with adjustable sights.
My wife carries a Ruger 101 and my son a S&W M65 w/3" bbl.
i do like a 357 for another reason 38 ammo is cheap to practice with and has less recoil for me and my wife .and for close range teaching and shooting 38 ammo works great . i own 44 mags,454 casull,10 mag,460 Smith too all have plenty recoil,so i feel my wife and myself are more accurate with a 357 mag.always. > bigger is not always better <
I have been to Alaska 26 times and traveled most of the state. There are no Brown Bears on Prince of Wales Island. The biggest black bear I encountered (350 pounder) was in a tidal pool catching Salman. He let me know it was his pool with a couple of false charges. The first time I traveled to Alaska was to build a cabin on Lake Illiamna where there were real live Brown Bears. I carried a Smith and Wesson Model 29 44 magnum. Jack Foldagger (Master Guide) laughed at me and called me a fool. I agree with him after having a couple of close encounters. He carried a 375 H&H every where he went, even to the [bleep] in his yard. I started carrying a 375 H&H or a 12 Gauge pump everywhere I went from then on. Two years ago while fishing at Prince of Wales Island I carried that same 12 gauge pump with a sling over my back. My suggestion is leave your pistol home. Nat Lambeth
Aside from the caliber, I would bring a fairly-potent handgun backup based on my experience. Before my first of two Alaskan hunts, my experienced and knowledgeable guide told me that it was a waste. I brought one anyway, and was glad I did, especially when not hunting back at camp. It’s just not realistic to have your rifle in your hands every second when, for example, you’re at camp, including taking a piss at night, or setting up a tent or cooking or whatever. I had my handgun comfortably with me at all times, except for when hunting, which is not all of the time. Much more reliable and convenient to have near you at all times.
Originally Posted by 458Win
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim.
Phil: Didn't your need for the 9mm in that incident occur because you and your hunting party had their rifles not within reach (which is common and understandable at times)?
Aside from the caliber, I would bring a fairly-potent handgun backup based on my experience. Before my first of two Alaskan hunts, my experienced and knowledgeable guide told me that it was a waste. I brought one anyway, and was glad I did, especially when not hunting back at camp. It’s just not realistic to have your rifle in your hands every second when, for example, you’re at camp, including taking a piss at night, or setting up a tent or cooking or whatever. I had my handgun comfortably with me at all times, except for when hunting, which is not all of the time. Much more reliable and convenient to have near you at all times.
Originally Posted by 458Win
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim.
Phil: Didn't your need for the 9mm in that incident occur because you and your hunting party had their rifles not within reach (which is common and understandable at times)?
No, I don't carry a long gun when fishing and we run into bears on a daily basis. in forty years that was the only time I felt the need to kill one.
However I never carry a handgun while bear hunting
The odds of having to shoot a black bear in self defense are very low, as 99 out of a hundred will run from you. "Yeah, an old friend replied, "but then there's that one."
Many, many people have been chewed up and/or killed by black bears. I try to be armed at all times when in bear country. You will leave the long gun in camp when you walk a few yards out to whiz, but you'll wear a pistol.
In grizzly country if hunting alone I like to carry a handgun in case I get sprung on and separated from the long gun. Laying there wishing you could bleed out faster while a grizzly eats your intestines is not my idea of a happy ending.
A better plan than a "backup pistol" is for you and your armed partner to stay within close range at all times, and ready to protect the other. My Kodiak deer hunting partner and I always slept in separate tents, in case one got pounced on in the night. Not likely, but it has happened.
According to Heim Korth in the book "The Final Frontiersman" I would follow the advise: Before taking a handgun into bear country make sure that the front sight is filed off. Because it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up your arse.
On the other hand: In a case of immediate emergency even the 357 Magnum might help:
According to Heim Korth in the book "The Final Frontiersman" I would follow the advise: Before taking a handgun into bear country make sure that the front sight is filed off. Because it won't hurt so much when the bear shoves the gun up your arse.
On the other hand: In a case of immediate emergency even the 357 Magnum might help:
Aside from the caliber, I would bring a fairly-potent handgun backup based on my experience. Before my first of two Alaskan hunts, my experienced and knowledgeable guide told me that it was a waste. I brought one anyway, and was glad I did, especially when not hunting back at camp. It’s just not realistic to have your rifle in your hands every second when, for example, you’re at camp, including taking a piss at night, or setting up a tent or cooking or whatever. I had my handgun comfortably with me at all times, except for when hunting, which is not all of the time. Much more reliable and convenient to have near you at all times.
Originally Posted by 458Win
If you are hunting with a rifle and can't kill a bear with it, then your chances with any handgun are pretty slim.
Phil: Didn't your need for the 9mm in that incident occur because you and your hunting party had their rifles not within reach (which is common and understandable at times)?
Phil had fishing clients and has posted that if he had known prior what was to transpire, he'd have had old ugly.
How do you piss with a handgun?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
Option A-Belt holster: (A) Open the fly with the belt on; pee with holstered firearm in about 13" range of hand;
Option B with a different option.
I know you think you know a lot more than me, and you likely do, but it's a lot more easy to piss in BB country with a big handgun handy than a rifle, and you likely won't deny that if you're being honest.
Option A-Belt holster: (A) Open the fly with the belt on; pee with holstered firearm in about 13" range of hand;
Option B with a different option.
I know you think you know a lot more than me, and you likely do, but it's a lot more easy to piss in BB country with a big handgun handy than a rifle, and you likely won't deny that if you're being honest.
I know you think you know a lot more than me, and you likely do, but it's a lot more easy to piss in BB country with a big handgun handy than a rifle, and you likely won't deny that if you're being honest.
Ok. Ease up ya overachiever.
Amazon has a special on senses of humor until January 5th. Buy one.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
I was about 16yo bear hunting with my Dad's buddy in Puale Bay (base of the Aleutian peninsula). It was just him and I. We were separated from my Dad and another guy by about 1/2 mile. I was helping carry his gear back to the boat and he was carrying the hide and skull of a 10.5' he just shot.
This monster started charging us through the alders. Back and forth thrashing brush, running in half circles. Darting closer then backing off. He would stop about 100y away and do it again. It went on for 1-2min. Felt like a 1-2 hours! The guy had dropped the hide and grabbed his rifle from me. I was behind him at a 45 angle from the bear when it finally split. He turned and looked at me very relieved then freaked out on me! During these charges I set my .338 wm down and pulled out a .44mag super Blackhawk I had just got and was real proud of. He kept asking me "do you know how much more damage that .338 would have done"? I was shaking so hard I really doubt I could have landed a fatal pistol shot anyway.
I don't think I have every carried both since. I really can't think of any circumstance in my life hunting Alaska where I wished I was carrying a pistol also. Ahh, maybe a .22 for spruce hens and Ptarmigan lol.
I'm a new member here. I've never hunted Alaska and don't presume to know anything about hunting Alaska. Nonetheless, I've found this thread immensely interesting. Thanks for that.
I do spend a lot of time in bear country where I live, both in my truck, but mainly on foot. We have black bears, a high density of them, with some going up to 700 lbs and very occasionally more. I am a [very] amateur wildlife photographer and have had some very close encounters with black bears. I've both surprised bears and been surprised by them, two of them in the 500-600 lb range. Only one has ever been even remotely aggressive, slapping it's paws and snapping its jaws at me. Mostly, they hold their ground until I go the other way. Every once in awhile I'll meet one on a trail and it's me that has to move. I hope I never have an encounter that goes south, but that possibility exists, I guess. We did have a local lady apparently eaten by the bears that she liked to feed near her home some years ago.
When I set off on foot, I carry a Glock 20 10mm and occasionally a Glock 29 with an extended magazine and X Grip. It's usually loaded with 200 gr Hornady HPs. And I sometimes carry a .357 Magnum, either a GP100 or an 8-shot Redhawk loaded with 180gr Buffalo Bores. Either, I think, would be effective against either the kinds of bears I'd encounter, or the more dangerous poachers that sometimes roam the same woods.
Anyways, keep up the good discussion. Even though I don't live in Alaska nor have hunted there, I find this forum immensely interesting.
Prince of Wales black bear hunting, was done watching the beaches from a skiff, during my short stay in southeast! Locate a bear, pull the skiff into the next inlet, get out and sneak up on them! To friggn thick to walk the woods. Sit above a clearcut glass and stalk was the second choice of the people i knew there! Needing a hand gun seems unnecessary, but then I carried my .41 in a Blackhawk while there. It has been a long time since I wandered Southeast Alaska. I like the mainland better for hunting. I do like fishing southeast, as well as any place I ever wet a line. Hope you go and have the time of your life!!
Glock10, I know nothing about bears but a couple of those look like they’d grade “Prime” if they were Angus! Not to be critical, but some of your local farmers could hold a straighter line when pulling a planter.
Thanks for the pictures!
“My horn is full and my pouch is stocked with ball and patch. There is a new, sharp flint in my lock and my rifle and I are ready. It is sighted true and my eyes can still aim.” Kaywoodie
Actually, those aren't farm fields. That's a National Wildlife refuge. Those fields are planted for the benefit of the wildlife. They grow soybeans and corn and other crops for wildlife, and then those fields get flooded in the winter for waterfowl. The folks that plow and plant those fields are local farmers who donate their time to the refuge. A steady supply of high quality food is how they grow bears up to 880 lbs. 880 is the NC record from this region. It's not entirely uncommon to see bears pushing 700 lbs feeding near the roads.
I've said before and again. I almost always have one or the other one me.
But I go out to pee at night without. We don't sleep in separate tents. I idon' have one on me at camp, but they are close around usually.
I do swap from rifle to handgun once a client has an animal down.
I never carry both. The extra weight is nuts IMHO.
People can do what they want, but it boils down to simplicity. If you ever have an attack encounter its gonna be rare. The bluffs otoh most people think are attacks.
When and if rare hits, you have to kill. Bullet has to penetrate vitals to kill. Has to penetrate CNS if you need to stop it right now.. CNS is SMALL. Moving.
You have to make the call. But as I"ve noted I don't feel bad with a 9 or larger around. I don't feel bad with a. 223 rifle or larger around., There are times I carry large. But there are other reasons than strictly self defense in those situations. And those are generally because I feel obligated to have to shoot the south end of a north bound animal that already has a hole in it. Different situation by a bit. IMHO.
Finally your noggin, not that some posters on 24 hour have much inside there, but your noggin is more important 99.9% of the time than your gun.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
One thing in skimming through this thread I did not see is discovering what was optimal for the OP.
Since there is no shortage of time before the OP has a chance to go, I would take a few guns out such as his .357, a Glock 10mm, a .44 mag, and whatever else he can acquire and do a side by side comparison. Shoot some drills on a timer.
Discover what he performs best with under pressure.
Just because you can shoot the prettiest group when doing bullseye style shooting with no time limits with a 1911 or Ruger Blackhawk does not mean it will be the gun you perform with when you need to make 4 or 5 hits with in under 3 seconds on a moving target.
A timer will help you in discovering what you are quicker with, including what holsters work with what clothing.
The Scandium 329 .44 may be ideal for packing around due to its ultra light weight, but the dismal shot to shot recovery time, as compared to a Model 629 could be eye opening. Same with single action revolvers versus doubles, versus a semi auto handgun in doing drills.
You might find that a Glock shooting 10mm or +P 45 heavy hardcast bullets is better (or worse) then an XYZ.
The only way to know is to go out run some drills with a timer, write down some info, be objective about it, compare and discover what works for you.
Cheers!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
My Arlo motion camera's got a photo of a black bear on my carport here in Virginia the other night. They are increasing moving into populated areas here !
Can the SP101 handle the 180 BB loads and would it be just as effective.....Hmmmmm
The fired cases from bb 180 hardcast get stuck in the sp 101 cylinder. They also misfire in the below zero weather. I load 180 grain swift A-frames to 1200 fps with lil gun powder. These spent srarline brass drop out the cylinder with ease.
The 180s drive clear through a bull moose neck(neck bone and all), found against the offside hide. 16 inches of penetration. The copper partition prevents them from expanding too much. The pure copper and lead allows great contolled expansion diameter, even down to 900 fps. They penetrate deep, and shock the animal better than hard cast.
There's a new small frame 357trail gun in town:
The kimber. It holds a full six shots and is just as light weight as the tiny 5 shooter sp101's and S&W's.
Theres an important cutoff where handguns don't get carried in my world. That mark is 30 ounces unloaded with barrels at 3-4 inches, no shorter no longer'. This new kimber hits the mark, as a full 6 shooter:
357 is better than nothing but pick your bullets carefully. Seen a few black bears hit with 9mms, 38s, 357s over hounds mostly using OTC ammo using jacketed bullets up close or when treed, with less than impressive results. Usually the guy wielding the 30-30 then puts em down. 44 mag much better than other pistol rds.
Seen a guy one shot and roll a blackie with a 44 though it was small. Had one local guy who weighed about 135lbs, if he came long he would always run in and grab a bayed up bear from behind in the neck and kill it with a shot to the head with his Ruger Single Six 22lr.
Don't think a black bear is an easy pushover if wounded, had one close call myself. Others not so lucky. They say it's rare? Back in the 90s, local bow hunter
Will also add myself and others have been followed by black bears while packing out game or even just hunting. One time a friend had some deer salami in his day pack and stepped off a trail to take a leak. When he returned to the trail he saw a 350lb black bear standing in the trail staring at him, about 30yds away. It took off but later when he went back down the trail he said the bear had been following him over 1.5 miles. Saw the same thing in Idaho with some other deer hunters, not one but 2 black bears tracked/trailed them a couple miles. Another friend had a big black bear show up and watch him while he boned out a deer, then it started popping its teeth. So he put a round in the dirt before it and it took off.
Worse feeling is having a black bear show up late night in camp after you killed something earlier. Full meat sacks to deal with, and bloody clothes get rinsed and hung away from camp. The bears still show up, and then the fun starts.
Just my perspective on what a black bear can do, no experience with Alaska bears.
Blu, Everyone has a philosphy on handguns used in Alaska. It's a big, vast state full of all sorts of folks.
Hunters, hikers, fisherman, guides, commercial fisherman, outfitters, tactical douches, mushers, gang members, Bush pilots, trappers, artists,etc.
Hell, we even have an athabascan rapper, named Samuel John! I dont know what the fk he wraps, maybe Christmas presents?
Anyhow, many of these personalities are packin handgun heat. In my bush travels, I see a lotta different types n choices.
My brother, that crazy fkn Indian, he recently snuck up on a 6 point white tail buck in the fog, by kayak. He popped that buck with his sub compact glock 9 mil. Guy is 6 ft 5 inches tall. It's kinda silly, he cant even get more n two fingers on the grip. He's got massive bear paws. I wont begrudge him on that lil glock, he loves the fkn thing!
Though he's not an Alaskan, my point is, he had it with him because it's handy.
Talk to an APD cop or ah Trooper, they'll tell yah where some Mountain view prostitutes will hide a beretta tomcat or 25 cap. Um, thats ah little too "handy" aye? Hope the cop didn't "handle" it after the search. Covid-19 would be the least of his worries.
I've carried many ah 44 magnum. Though effective, do not discount those handy trail guns like compact 357 mag or a glock 29 10 mm.
When the hiking gets hard, they'll never way yah down.
I'm a little different than most handguners, and have different needs:
Bear protection aside, winter moose are my biggest problem. Ask ANY experienced musher, they'll tell you what it's like to have 1000 lbs of grumpy dumb, come stomp the fk outta the dogs, thinking they are wolves. I can't use heavy hardcast, it could over penetrate and kill a dog. Not happening.
Swift A-frames in both the ladies 10mm and my 357 mag. If you keep the stock spring on the glock 10 mm, it'll digest light duty fmj, that won't damage small game,. The stock spring still works fine if you're not going after that hot loaded, 220 grain hard cast madness.
My handgun must do double duty as a small game getter. I don't own a rimfire. I can only afford a single handgun. I eat beaver on my moose hunts. So fmj's at lower velocity put away at least 200-300 lbs of beaver, grouse, ptarmigan and hare every year.
Running a heavy dog sled up a hill to help the dogs, can't do that with a chubby 44. An sp 101 357 or glock 29 10mm is ideal. With heavy winter parkas like the Northern Outfitters and Apocolypse design out of Fairbanks,, there is only one place for that gun: Front parka pocket.
Little guns like the sp101 and the glock 29 won't way yah down on those steep hikes.
Anyhow, I'm a buffoon of a man,
But dont discount handy compacts. Theyll do everything well. You wont notice it, till you need it.
No name-dropping here: "this guide carries this kinda bullsht".
Just speaking for myself, my experiences, and what works perfectly well for me.
Blu, Everyone has a philosphy on handguns used in Alaska. It's a big, vast state full of all sorts of folks.
Hunters, hikers, fisherman, guides, commercial fisherman, outfitters, tactical douches, mushers, gang members, Bush pilots, trappers, artists,etc.
Hell, we even have an athabascan rapper, named Samuel John! I dont know what the fk he wraps, maybe Christmas presents?
Anyhow, many of these personalities are packin handgun heat. In my bush travels, I see a lotta different types n choices.
My brother, that crazy fkn Indian, he recently snuck up on a 6 point white tail buck in the fog, by kayak. He popped that buck with his sub compact glock 9 mil. Guy is 6 ft 5 inches tall. It's kinda silly, he cant even get more n two fingers on the grip. He's got massive bear paws. I wont begrudge him on that lil glock, he loves the fkn thing!
Though he's not an Alaskan, my point is, he had it with him because it's handy.
Talk to an APD cop or ah Trooper, they'll tell yah where some Mountain view prostitutes will hide a beretta tomcat or 25 cap. Um, thats ah little too "handy" aye? Hope the cop didn't "handle" it after the search. Covid-19 would be the least of his worries.
I've carried many ah 44 magnum. Though effective, do not discount those handy trail guns like compact 357 mag or a glock 29 10 mm.
When the hiking gets hard, they'll never way yah down.
I'm a little different than most handguners, and have different needs:
Bear protection aside, winter moose are my biggest problem. Ask ANY experienced musher, they'll tell you what it's like to have 1000 lbs of grumpy dumb, come stomp the fk outta the dogs, thinking they are wolves. I can't use heavy hardcast, it could over penetrate and kill a dog. Not happening.
Swift A-frames in both the ladies 10mm and my 357 mag. If you keep the stock spring on the glock 10 mm, it'll digest light duty fmj, that won't damage small game,. The stock spring still works fine if you're not going after that hot loaded, 220 grain hard cast madness.
My handgun must do double duty as a small game getter. I don't own a rimfire. I can only afford a single handgun. I eat beaver on my moose hunts. So fmj's at lower velocity put away at least 200-300 lbs of beaver, grouse, ptarmigan and hare every year.
Running a heavy dog sled up a hill to help the dogs, can't do that with a chubby 44. An sp 101 357 or glock 29 10mm is ideal. With heavy winter parkas like the Northern Outfitters and Apocolypse design out of Fairbanks,, there is only one place for that gun: Front parka pocket.
Little guns like the sp101 and the glock 29 won't way yah down on those steep hikes.
Anyhow, I'm a buffoon of a man,
But dont discount handy compacts. Theyll do everything well. You wont notice it, till you need it.
No name-dropping here: "this guide carries this kinda bullsht".
Just speaking for myself, my experiences, and what works perfectly well for me.
Outstanding post, thanks.
Carry what you’re willing to fight with - Mackay Sagebrush
I'm a new member here. I've never hunted Alaska and don't presume to know anything about hunting Alaska. Nonetheless, I've found this thread immensely interesting. Thanks for that.
I do spend a lot of time in bear country where I live, both in my truck, but mainly on foot. We have black bears, a high density of them, with some going up to 700 lbs and very occasionally more. I am a [very] amateur wildlife photographer and have had some very close encounters with black bears. I've both surprised bears and been surprised by them, two of them in the 500-600 lb range. Only one has ever been even remotely aggressive, slapping it's paws and snapping its jaws at me. Mostly, they hold their ground until I go the other way. Every once in awhile I'll meet one on a trail and it's me that has to move. I hope I never have an encounter that goes south, but that possibility exists, I guess. We did have a local lady apparently eaten by the bears that she liked to feed near her home some years ago.
When I set off on foot, I carry a Glock 20 10mm and occasionally a Glock 29 with an extended magazine and X Grip. It's usually loaded with 200 gr Hornady HPs. And I sometimes carry a .357 Magnum, either a GP100 or an 8-shot Redhawk loaded with 180gr Buffalo Bores. Either, I think, would be effective against either the kinds of bears I'd encounter, or the more dangerous poachers that sometimes roam the same woods.
Anyways, keep up the good discussion. Even though I don't live in Alaska nor have hunted there, I find this forum immensely interesting.
What counties 10Glock? We regularly duck hunt in Pamlico and Beaufort around Goose Creek Island/Bay River. I've seen them out in fields often but luckily have never had a run-in while duck hunting in the marsh. I'm not too confident a load a steel #2s is sufficient enough deterrant from a 500+lb bear. Cool pics, thanks for sharing.
I'm a new member here. I've never hunted Alaska and don't presume to know anything about hunting Alaska. Nonetheless, I've found this thread immensely interesting. Thanks for that.
I do spend a lot of time in bear country where I live, both in my truck, but mainly on foot. We have black bears, a high density of them, with some going up to 700 lbs and very occasionally more. I am a [very] amateur wildlife photographer and have had some very close encounters with black bears. I've both surprised bears and been surprised by them, two of them in the 500-600 lb range. Only one has ever been even remotely aggressive, slapping it's paws and snapping its jaws at me. Mostly, they hold their ground until I go the other way. Every once in awhile I'll meet one on a trail and it's me that has to move. I hope I never have an encounter that goes south, but that possibility exists, I guess. We did have a local lady apparently eaten by the bears that she liked to feed near her home some years ago.
When I set off on foot, I carry a Glock 20 10mm and occasionally a Glock 29 with an extended magazine and X Grip. It's usually loaded with 200 gr Hornady HPs. And I sometimes carry a .357 Magnum, either a GP100 or an 8-shot Redhawk loaded with 180gr Buffalo Bores. Either, I think, would be effective against either the kinds of bears I'd encounter, or the more dangerous poachers that sometimes roam the same woods.
Anyways, keep up the good discussion. Even though I don't live in Alaska nor have hunted there, I find this forum immensely interesting.
What counties 10Glock? We regularly duck hunt in Pamlico and Beaufort around Goose Creek Island/Bay River. I've seen them out in fields often but luckily have never had a run-in while duck hunting in the marsh. I'm not too confident a load a steel #2s is sufficient enough deterrant from a 500+lb bear. Cool pics, thanks for sharing.
Here is a fairly recent account of a far bigger bear up close and personal.
What counties 10Glock? We regularly duck hunt in Pamlico and Beaufort around Goose Creek Island/Bay River. I've seen them out in fields often but luckily have never had a run-in while duck hunting in the marsh. I'm not too confident a load a steel #2s is sufficient enough deterrant from a 500+lb bear. Cool pics, thanks for sharing.
Usually Dare and Tyrell. I'm mainly out looking for reptiles, alligators and such. But come across a lot of bears.
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Here is a fairly recent account of a far bigger bear up close and personal.
That's a s**t-load of bear right there. I've never had any bear come up to me. But I walked up on one that was soaking in a water filled flood-control ditch in 90+ degree weather. Didn't even know it was there until I was about 15-20 feet away. He went up the bank on the other side of the ditch and awaited my departure.
My dad used to hunt bears a fair amount (3-5 times over a decade period) with a gentleman he became good friends with on some other hunt somewhere else.... his pal carried a single action .22. My dad always told the story of when he asked his pal why in the hell he bothered with a .22 as bear back up..... at which point his pal said the .22 was for him and not the bear if the bear got ahold of him!
My dad used to hunt bears a fair amount (3-5 times over a decade period) with a gentleman he became good friends with on some other hunt somewhere else.... his pal carried a single action .22. My dad always told the story of when he asked his pal why in the hell he bothered with a .22 as bear back up..... at which point his pal said the .22 was for him and not the bear if the bear got ahold of him!
Wow! Thats a good one!
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
My dad used to hunt bears a fair amount (3-5 times over a decade period) with a gentleman he became good friends with on some other hunt somewhere else.... his pal carried a single action .22. My dad always told the story of when he asked his pal why in the hell he bothered with a .22 as bear back up..... at which point his pal said the .22 was for him and not the bear if the bear got ahold of him!
That's a real knee slapper!
I have never heard that before! Tell us another..
Around here we love it when out of state hunters come to the local cafe and tell us the joke about the city slicker who shoots the ranchers horse then argues, to the point that the rancher finally gives up and just asks if he can get his saddle off the city slicker's trophy elk. Great joke. Every year.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
Most of you Cheechako’s (late to the campfire game) won’t get the reference: Are we looking at the next “Match King thread” or will this looser die of natural causes? 😉
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!" *** my Grandaughters
My dad used to hunt bears a fair amount (3-5 times over a decade period) with a gentleman he became good friends with on some other hunt somewhere else.... his pal carried a single action .22. My dad always told the story of when he asked his pal why in the hell he bothered with a .22 as bear back up..... at which point his pal said the .22 was for him and not the bear if the bear got ahold of him!
Wow! Thats a good one!
Hey! Tell that one about filing off the front sight!! 🤣🤣🤣
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
These are usually the same people who recommend buckshot for bear defense. Or even better, alternating foster slugs with buckshot for bear defense. Classic.
These are usually the same people who recommend buckshot for bear defense. Or even better, alternating foster slugs with buckshot for bear defense. Classic.
For shotgun bear defense, I alternate birdshot (to put their eyes out); buckshot (so I don’t miss); then a slug for penetration; and then a flamethrower round: https://www.firequest.com/G12-013.html (gotta watch the end of the video to understand why).
Know a few guys who have stopped bear charges with a game load of light birdshot (both 20 and 12 ga.). May not be the best choice in the world but it worked. Point being the best bear defense gun is the one you have in your hands when things take a turn for the worse. Anything in your hands is better than nothing when you need it.
99.9% of the time I just have my rifle.. But their are no brown bears in unit 13 in the alphabets😁.. Hell only pistol we had on kodiak this past fall was my buddies 22 pistol he brought to shoot fox’s with..
According to the campfire trust I probably should be dead..
Last edited by 79S; 01/13/21.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
These are usually the same people who recommend buckshot for bear defense. Or even better, alternating foster slugs with buckshot for bear defense. Classic.
Know a few guys who have stopped bear charges with a game load of light birdshot (both 20 and 12 ga.). May not be the best choice in the world but it worked. Point being the best bear defense gun is the one you have in your hands when things take a turn for the worse. Anything in your hands is better than nothing when you need it.
This is more of a question than an observation: In my one experience, the only bear I’ve seen that heard a gunshot and wasn’t hit, ran the other way. This also is true of every video or writing on the matter I can recall. And I’m talking about a bear on the ground some, if even short, distance away—meaning not already on top of you. But I may be missing something.
Is that incorrect? Phil and others, what is your experience? Do bears ever charge toward the sound of a firearm that has been discharged in their direction whether or not they were hit by the projectile?
These are usually the same people who recommend buckshot for bear defense. Or even better, alternating foster slugs with buckshot for bear defense. Classic.
I’ve heard this one a lot what’s your thoughts?
The only shotgun round I would trust on brown bears is a magnum Brenneke. Better yet is something mid-large caliber at a middling velocity with a bullet that digs deep. Bears killed in defense generally have to be shot very quickly at less than ideal angles. I think there's a huge difference between hunting brown bears and defense against them. For just hunting them, I could be comfortable using a .308 and a premium 150gr bullet-broadside through the lungs with a calm animal, they'll die just fine. For wading into the brush after them I like something bigger, like a 9.3x62, .375, or a .416. A .458 would be fine, but I can't shoot those fast enough for my liking.
Brown bears are like people in that each one is an individual, with it's own reactions to different stimuli. I find that if you're within a certain distance (say 50 yards) and surprise one suddenly, you'll get a fight or flight response from them. Just the same as individual humans would react differently to walking into their living room, flipping the light on, and there's a burglar there. Some of us would run, and some of us would immediately fight. One time I a was jump shooting ducks and made a shot on a flushing mallard. A bear immediately ran up towards me from a side channel about 35 yards away. I did alot of yelling and he veered off, crapping as he went. That bear had no clue I was there until the shot and then reacted aggressively to what scared him.
These are usually the same people who recommend buckshot for bear defense. Or even better, alternating foster slugs with buckshot for bear defense. Classic.
I’ve heard this one a lot what’s your thoughts?
The only shotgun round I would trust on brown bears is a magnum Brenneke. Better yet is something mid-large caliber at a middling velocity with a bullet that digs deep. Bears killed in defense generally have to be shot very quickly at less than ideal angles. I think there's a huge difference between hunting brown bears and defense against them. For just hunting them, I could be comfortable using a .308 and a premium 150gr bullet-broadside through the lungs with a calm animal, they'll die just fine. For wading into the brush after them I like something bigger, like a 9.3x62, .375, or a .416. A .458 would be fine, but I can't shoot those fast enough for my liking.
Brown bears are like people in that each one is an individual, with it's own reactions to different stimuli. I find that if you're within a certain distance (say 50 yards) and surprise one suddenly, you'll get a fight or flight response from them. Just the same as individual humans would react differently to walking into their living room, flipping the light on, and there's a burglar there. Some of us would run, and some of us would immediately fight. One time I a was jump shooting ducks and made a shot on a flushing mallard. A bear immediately ran up towards me from a side channel about 35 yards away. I did alot of yelling and he veered off, crapping as he went. That bear had no clue I was there until the shot and then reacted aggressively to what scared him.
Wow. I’d be the one crapping! Thanks for the insight
I don't even belong in this conversation, but I'll say that I learned that there are .357 Magnums and .357 Magnums on Buffalo Bore with the 180 grain. Cheerist, that turned my Model 66 into a different animal.
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