Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire About the corona vaccines

It's definitely not true that all SARS-CoV-2 candidate vaccines are mRNA based. The leading vaccines for the US are from Moderna and Pfizer. These two are mRNA.

There are serious development efforts using other technology including old school protein based vaccines.

As they say when buying a new car never buy the first year of a new model..

i wonder if the second shot, the booster will make one as sick as the first shot?

Better hope it’s good if they give it to the healthcare workers first. Since it’s a scam anyway most of them will probably refuse it.

heard this morning the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at like -70 degrees which will work for hospitals and equipped facilities but not lend itself to mass distribution

The Moderna vaccine can be kept in normal refrigeration.

Trump set up funding for both of them going back to Jan of this year but if Biden is in office you better believe he'll take credit for it.

People are ripe to try ANYTHING to make 2020 go away.

PATHETIC

So how would a person know factually which vaccine they are being given? And with all that we know now, how could one believe what they are being told by
their Dr. or healthcare worker. Would they lie to Dr. or Healthcare as to the contents of the vaccine? Do you trust big pharma with all that is coming out now about
them? How can a vaccine successfully duplicate the job of tonsils?

It's true there is really no way that I know at the moment for a layman to know which vaccine they are getting. You have to trust the healthcare provider.

The job of a vaccine is not to duplicate the role of tonsils. it's simply to fool your body into thinking it's infected and producing a memory immune response. It's biological trickery.

I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I do agree that anti-vaxers make some valid points especially with this new technology.

The FDA is usually ridiculously slow to approve any kind of treatment, to the point of it almost being criminal how much they slow walk new therapies. Their refusal to allow experimental drugs to be tested on terminal cancer patients comes to mind. President Trump was right to kick them in the ass and force them to massively accelerate the timeline. A vaccine for Covid needs to be on the market yesterday if for no other reason than it'll placate those that are paralyzed with fear in their parents basement into coming out and going to work again. The lockdowns are killing more people than the virus ever will, the fear that has paralyzed the world for most of the last year has to end. If that means a less than fully tested marginally effective vaccine then so be it, as long as the sheep think it'll help them. We don't have time for the usual FDA approach of slow walking years of testing before approval, our economy will be destroyed before that happens. A reasonable assurance of safety based upon the clinical trials already done is good enough.

I won't be the first to take it but once I'm convinced there aren't any serious side effects I'll take it.

I voted Trump to make it go away.

Fear is encouraging a lot of stupid behavior lately. Pandering to make it stop please is only encouraging more. Not saying this new approach is safe or not but I believe that it assumes the tiny piece of RNA they are inducing an immune response to isn't found anywhere but this virus... Heck the same fragment could be in pork or barley.

I don't want to be pedantic, but knowing some detail can be useful here.

The mRNA is not what induces the immune response. The mRNA when taken up by the cell causes the cell to produce proteins. The mRNA is from SARS-CoV-2. It causes the cell to create proteins(antigens) from the virus with out infecting you and these are what cause the immune response. Old vaccines would inject these directly, but with these new vaccines the idea is to cause your body to do what used to be done in a chicken egg - grow virus protein. It's kind of infecting ourcells, but with out a fully functional virus. Just bits and pieces of the virus.

When you eat pork all the DNA and RNA in the pork muscle cells are digested. No worries there.

A major hurdle with these vaccines is to develop a delivery mechanism to get the DNA or mRNA into the cell and getting itto stay stable long enough to cause protein creation in quantities large enough to obtain an immune response. Not positive but these delivery mechanisms are where the companies distinguish themselves with patents.

The vaccine doesn't make you sick. The vaccine may induce an immune response that may make you feel sick as many of the unpleasantness we feel when we are sick is due to our immune system fighting the disease. It's the disease that is actually the sickness. No live virus = no sickness. You may "feel" sick but you're not. I have asthma and will get the vaccine as soon as I can.

Another way to think of this is: Maybe the left is hoping that Conservative Republicans are so stupid they won't take the vaccine. The left will be protected but the right's numbers will drop due to their own paranoia and ignorance. We're now at about a 50/50 split in this country if they can make it 60/40, they'll never lose.

Hat,
Only used pork and barley cause I was enjoying a pulled pork sandwich and pale ale at the time.
Don't think that you don't have to eat a protein cooked or otherwise to have an immune response triggered.

What makes the biotech vaccines different, as far as I can decipher, unlike other vaccines, they don't use the complete virus DNA(RNA in SARs)/proteins only a portion of the bases that code for a specific protein. Moderna's being a bit that codes for the protein spike.

My question is: how can they be certain this same sequence or protein does not exist elsewhere in nature ... maybe having a different function? I assume that they probably have figured that out ...but stockholders and marketing often have a different set of ethics than R&D. Curious enough that I need to look up a gene jockey or two to talk to.

This. At the very least.

I have a question for those of you in the know...

Considering how quickly and seemingly easy (I know that "easy" is probably not the right term, but still...) they came up with this vaccine, how is it that other virus' go on and on without ever having a vaccine developed for them? Say for instance HIV or Ebola?

Its largely about money, Yes the RNA vaccines were easier to design and create, but there is huge amount of costs in setting up GMP production and then the trials necessary to get by the FDA for any vaccine. Under normal circumstances vaccines these costs are mostly upfront from the Pharm/Biotech and there is significant risk that the vaccine won't work or have side effects, or the wave of infections that spurred development will subside and the company will be standing there holding a billion dollar bag. Pretty much the case for ebola and MERS vaccines.

Project Warp speed was effective because it basically pays the Pharms for a certain number of doses before the vaccine was even developed, so it pretty much took the risk out of the process for the Pharms. Even if there vaccine didn't work, they get paid enough to cover the development, production and trials . And there is even more upside, if they make an effective vaccine, even after they supply the first hundred or so million doses that they got paid for there is a 7 billion person market for more doses of the vaccine, so a big upside for a fast effective vaccine.. In my opinion the administration really did a good job removing the hurdles to rapid development, but left the development and production to the people who know the most about it. My guess is that if the control had shifted to the CDC from the Pharms, it would have been much slower and less innovative.

To add to NoKnees, vaccines are notoriously unprofitable endeavors. Take Ebola. Lots of development costs, and a very small, uncertain, POOR, market. Maybe there will be an outbreak, probably not. Not many people in the market, and the majority are in no position to pay for a fairly priced vaccine. So a company would have to make, store (and destroy and remake continuously to keep vaccine available just in case). Who would do that?

I haven't heard or read anything that negates the liability of the companies manufacturing these new vaccines. My understanding is that the phase 3 trials for these vaccines were composed of many many more trial participants (all of which fit the specific trial criteria relating to age, comorbidities, ethnicity, and etc) than have been used historically for these kinds products. Hence, much more data on efficacy, side effects, and etc. before release for use in the population. However, the results of their use in the general population ( with all their comorbidities, age variance, medications, ethnicities, and etc.) will most likely not be realized until we are several months down the road.

I thought this was a helpful article to help understand vaccine constructs and it’s written in the context of C-19 options being researched.

Explanation of C-19 vaccine options