Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The BEST damn Accubond vs. Barnes TSX thread?

JB, do I get a free issue for giving you such a good setup? :-)

I've only used an Accubond on one head of game, a big-bodied blacktail buck at about 80 yards with a 30-06 and 180-grainer. It worked absolutely perfectly; bullet performance could not possibly have been better. Broke the onside shoulder bone, exited the far flank after about 2 feet of penetration, didn't trash the onside shoulder meat, and the buck fell where he stood.

I know a blacktail deer shot with what amounts to an elk load is not a true test of a bullet. On the other hand, this ain't Africa! Jeepers creepers peoples! I feel kind of like Brad has mentioned feeling when people start talking like the existance of something like the 300 RUM has turned the 30-06 into a popgun, good only for coyotes all of a sudden. In the same way, as good or not good as the TSX might be, it's not like every other premium bullet is suddenly inadequate. I mean there are people out there thinking that they NEED that TSX for those 150-lb deer... that's silly.

THAT said, I'll use whatever is best. Hunts are expensive, bullets are cheap. I think I'll stick with the 225-gn Accubond as my elk load from my .338 WM, because I've put in a lot of work with it in the last year and have my drops etc all figured out and verified ad nauseum, but maybe next off-season I'll buy some TSX's and see if they shoot for me. If the TSX will shoot as well as the AB in my rifles, it'll get a chance in the field. The dang regular X bullets have only cost me a couple hundred dollars and a bunch of exasperation in the past, when I have failed to find loads that shot... but I hear the TSX is better in that regard.

The one that intrigues me the most is the 8mm 180-gn TSX. How do you all think it would compare in penetration and killin' power to a 200-gn Partition, all else equal, from a .325 WSM? Hmm.... I think I'll flesh that question out some and ask it as a new thread.

-jeff

The 110g AccuBonds are pretty accurate in my Roberts, the only place I have tried them, but so are the 115g TSX's which I have laoded in several of my .30's.

When t comes to actually grabbing a box of relaods and going hunting, though, I grab North Forks. If I wasn't using them I'd be using Trophy Bonded or A-Frame. (In fact I do use the 120g A-Frames in the Roberts as no North Forks are available in a .257".)

JB: Sure everyone buys those two bullets; they get more press than the present presidential candidates. I just, for the life of me, fail to see what is so special about the Accubond.I think it was brought out by Nosler because they needed something with a plastic tip that was a bit tougher than the BT.Which is all it really is, IMO.Don't get me wrong, I have one 7 mag that loves them, and I have 500-600 of them in my supply, but I would never take one to Africa, or where the game gets over deer size.Just don't see any advantage over a Partition or an Aframe.

The advantage for me is that my rifles don't group the partition nearly as well as either the accubond or the tsx.

The notion that Partitions do not shoot, or Aframes for that matter, is simply untrue;I've shot so many sub inch groups, and sub MOA to all ranges with Partitions.If your rifle shoots a bullet at or under an inch, getting slightly tighter groups does not help anything.

Besides, you don't shoot big game animals with groups.

Hunt enough of this kind of country and and one starts striving for bangflops:

I for one will always take a cup n core or Accubond/Interbond over a TSX for deer sized game. Who would want to bail off in this hell hole let alone try to pack a deer out of it!

MtnHtr

This is why I would use my .338RUM with 210gr TSXs and shoot the shoulder out. I think that there is alot of difference between the two bullets but the accubond is a great bullet. Not as great as the TSX but still very good. As for needing a tsx for 150 pound deer use what you are comfortable with I would just plain have penetration than something that might blow up. If my TSX fails to open then both shoulders are broke and deer is still going nowhere. Nothing is fool proof but for me the TSX comes as close to perfect as anything. HAPPY HUNTING

Thats one of reasons I avoid the TSXs, animals don't always expose their shoulders while hunting thick cover. Plenty of times I've had to place bullets behind the shoulders and the animal simply folds with CnC or even the NP bullets.

One poster stated 20grs of bullet does not make a difference, I think it does and can on a marginal hit. I've seen game that was recovered if it were not for a single fragment of lead or copper that made it to the heart or spine. Give me 40% to 60% bullet retention, I simply love it.

I do think the TSX can make the smaller cal cartridges into viable deer cartridges (the 22 & 6mms come to mind). But shot placement is going to have to be perfect with less room for error.

Just my thoughts, no flames intended.

MtnHtr

Sissy!!!!!

I think searching for a bullet that gives instant "lights out" kills all the time is an interesting intellectual exercise but pretty much a waste of grey matter, because they do not exist. I once ran about a dozen "in the tracks" kills with 130 and 140 gr Bitterroots fired from 270 and 7 Rem Mag rifles, and thought "BINGO", I've got the formula. Then, one evening, right at dark on the side of a mountain in Wyoming, a pretty fair buck stopped in an opening in the buck brush and scrub pines at 300 yards. I fired and saw him lurch at the impact. I got up there and he was nowhere to be found. For fear of pushing him in the dark, we waited till the morning and found him stone dead about 50 yards away (the meat was fine).

The 140 gr B'root had smashed both shoulders and was found in the offside under the skin. The lungs were "clean", untouched by the path of the bullet, but both shoulders were a train wreck. As we all know, a deer's shoulders are not attached directly to his skeleton like ours are, but by muscle, or whatever.So even a shoulder shot will not drop them where they stand all the time, if the spine is missed.

A guy can search for a lifetime and never find a combination that always dumps 'em where they stand. If he thinks he found it, he has not shot much stuff.On deer, differences between these bullets is pretty trivial.Personally, I'll take more penetration than I think I need in a bullet.

I use to use the Winchester Supreme Partition Golds up until the Accubonds come out in 2004. I got tired of the soft nose of the bullet squaring off from being cycled from the clip to the chamber and out at end of the hunt in my 300WM. The PG's were a great bullet for me on game.

From the performance I have been getting @ the range for grouping and on big game here in Alberta (elk/moose/wt/mulie/bears), I'll be sticking to my Accubonds (140gr in my 270WSM and 180gr in my 300WM). MOst shots have be complete pass throughs, with major internal damage. Distances at game ranged from 45 metres to 554 metres.

Before I started to reload, I was shooting the factory Winchester Supreme 180 AB in my 300WM. My buddy has the same rifle and harvested a moose that season with 1 shot. Small entrance with huge exit wound. I took a NT Mulie buck on the last afternoon of the season @ 45 metres with a rear quarter behind the LF shoulder. When dresing the animal later at the farm I found the bullet in the hide after it passed thru the RF shoulder. I weighed it at work and it weighed 150gr (83.3% retained-Nosler says min. 60%). I then harvested a 8x7 whitetail an hour later @ 554 metres with complete pass - thru. Both animals dropped in their tracks. I was surprised at the mulie that the bullet did not exit but the expansion of the bullet and weight retained made me happy.

My wife took her first mulie and cow elk that season with her 270WSM-same resluts- 1 shot, complete pass thrus. I have taken moose and elk with the 270WSM , and this past season my wife took her first bull moose @ 325 metres double lung shot- complete pass thru. I told her to shoot again as I did not want the bull to make it to the timber. Both shots very close together. The bull maybe went 20 metres and dropped.

In defence of the TSX, I did buy a selection of them for my 270WSM's and 300WM (140gr-270WSM, 150/180/200 for my 300WM)for reloading, but the performance at the range and on the game with the AB's, I only reloaded some 200gr. Got good small clover leaf grouping but felt the 180gr best for my 300WM.

With the performance of the 270WSM with 140gr AB's, I just traded my new box of 140 TSX for some AB's and bought the remaining 2 boxes at one dealer b/c I couldn't find them at other dealers-hard to come by right now.


To each there own, as depends on what your rifle likes to shoot. For me I'm under 0.5" 5 shot group @ 100 metres with my Sako m75 SS 300WM (3 shots @ 0.28") and for my 2 Tikka T3 LS 270WSM's both shoot great - 0.4" 5 shot groups out of one and 0.6" out of the other but I'm tweaking the load right now.

Hard to say which bullet is better as I have seen failures on both. The TSX not expanding or petals falling off to the AB's coming apart with not much left.

Here is a great pic of the shot/wound on a large bull elk harvested by a fellow (pic taken off another forum)in Alberta last year using 200gr AB's from his 300RUM. Quite impressive if you ask me! Pic is of the exit wound looking towards the entrance wound.




Great topic. Its good to se the good/bad and opinions in both types of bullets.

Jeff,

PM me your address and I'll mail you a copy....

JB

Yup. If one wants a bang-flop aim for the head--and then it really doesn't matter what bullet a guy is using.






I have not seen shoulder shots drop an animal much quicker than the behind-the-shoulder shots either. Plus, even a slightly angled shot can easily miss the off shoulder. Although I do think a shoulder shot will slow them down quicker and make it obvious the critter is sick.

In my case, it was ingrained into me from day one that in my family, we don't waste meat by shooting 'em in the shoulder. I intuitively, instinctively, automatically put the crosshairs tight behind the shoulder...........even today, if one shoots a deer/elk in the shoulder, he can expect some ribbing from my dad and his cronies






Yup.

In the 80's I wanted bullet PENETRATION. Then, because the previous owners of what was renamed Barnes were local boys, I got a hold of some of the first run production X Bullets (1988?, 1989?). Eventually I figured out there could be such a thing as too much penetration--even with my "marginal" elk killin' 270W.

I err on the side of penetration too, but there is more to terminal ballistics I have found.

Casey

+1 on the accuracy; they are astounding. Partitions are good that way, AB's are great.

Another factor for me is availability. A-Frames are hard to get locally, requiring a visit to the gunshop at best, and probably bugging them to keep in stock what I need. Accubonds are easy to get in a Mart a few miles away.

If I was going to Africa, I'd use something else, probably, except maybe not for plains game. It'll be interesting to see what JB's article has to say! In the lower 48 of the US of A, they seem like an excellent bullet to this hunter. I hope to test one on a bull elk from my .338 this fall!

-jeff

I did some editing.

I agree with this. I thought I "had it" with my .358; that sucker was dumping deer in their tracks left and right until THIS little guy:



Took that hit and ran 200 yards!!

As far as deer and penetration, though, I've just never seen the problem! I've killed them with Corelokt, Silvertip, Speer FP's, Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Interbonds... maybe a couple others and NEVER recovered a bullet yet!

-jeff

So would that make it the August issue?

J

Gotta be the August issue. Looking forward to the article.

Jeff

When you get to messing with the 225 tsx PM me... I"ve got data on it, pretty good data. Have 3 charges of powder that all shoot sub moa in a Rem 338 WM. Best was shooting .4 and under for 3 shot groups.....

Jeff

Yep, August issue. I can hardly wait to read it myself. Am getting old enough that I forget what I wrote in between issues!
One advantage to that is that everything seems new!

JB

Here is my final take on this(I hope I can refrain further)

Anyway, animals have been being killed by a hole in the correct area of the vitals for years.. Arrows, spears etc.. cut a bit too. Big lead balls didnt do all the much and neither did conicals.. but they still died and were found.

SO thats why I err on the penetration side. Figure if I can get the hole where it needs to be, regardless of angle and expansion factors, its generally a done deal. I may have to push that bullet so for the once a year chance.... I choose the safety net. If its a hunt I can or will walk away from a bad shot, then its a non issue as to bullet. In the meantime the X bullets have worked so well from so many different angles and speeds I stick with em and not nearly as much blood shot meat.

IF you can't get that round to penetrate into the vitals it will impede your ability to take angling shots if needed. Cool by you, then its cool if you know your limitations.

After that its pretty much back to preference of wanting a bang flop or not..... that being said I know of one round that produced a bang flop on 150ish pound whitetails every time it was ever used. I totally disagree with the use,but..... 220 swift a friend hunted with for years... the smaller bullet, not sure which as i've never owned one, but in HP. Shot every deer he ever shot in the flank of the guts. Bang flop every time, which usually meant 3-5 deer a year....

Jeff