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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,055
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
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I bought a GP100 from a neighbor who had only shot about 2 boxes thru it in the 10 plus years he owned it. It was damn near impossible to fire double action and you had to work to pull the hammer back for single action. I took it all apart and cleaned it and reoiled it and works fine now.
I've never had an auto give me that much trouble after so little use.
"243/85TSX It's as if the HAMMER OF THOR were wielded by CHUCK NORRIS himself, and a roundhouse kick thrown in for good measure."
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,107 |
Of course not, everyone knows that.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,089
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,089 |
I dunno. Carried a revolver for a year in Nam, never jammed, never got cleaned. Carried a 1911 during tour #2 and it never jammed either.
A few years after I left the service I purchased a S&W Model 59. Jamm-o-matic it was. Revolvers never let me down, nor has my little Ruger LCP. I think that stands for Little Chitty Pistol, but it fits in the pocket OK-fine.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,202 |
I am a huge revolver fan, for multiple reasons but reliability isn't necessarily one of them.
A quality auto with quality ammo doesn't lend itself to jams. Personally I think cheap or bad ammo causes more jams than anything in both autos and revolvers, though I have seen several cheap pot metal pawls and hammer cams cause issues too, as well as early rising bolts.
I don't know if I'd say they have been carried a lot by any stretch-but my Glock 23 has never, EVER jammed. My Springfield Champion Operator 1911 only has jammed when I didn't resize cases properly.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,389
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,389 |
Why in the name of God would anyone use “load it and put it in a drawer for 30 years” as an argument for reliability of anything?
What dumbass would do such a thing?
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,201
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,201 |
Why in the name of God would anyone use “load it and put it in a drawer for 30 years” as an argument for reliability of anything?
What dumbass would do such a thing? I guess it depends on what criteria you use to define reliability. As stated, it was provided as an example of tolerance for neglect, as opposed to tolerance for abuse or the general ability to chew through tens of thousands of rounds. My guess is there are more guns than you think sitting around in drawers, desks, glove boxes, purses, etc. that get very little maintenance. I’m also guessing the owners (rightly or wrongly) expect them reliably work when called upon. There are certainly more guns laying around in a drawer than there are going through the ‘Gauntlet’ or whatever else MAC puts them through.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,389
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,389 |
The dictionary defines re·li·a·bil·i·ty /rəˌlīəˈbilədē/ noun the quality of being trustworthy or of performing consistently well.
Sticking something in a drawer for 30 years and using it once has zero to do with reliability.
“Consistently” implies repeated use.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Posts: 4,201
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,201 |
Yes. Trustworthy. That’s the word. In the definition you provided the word ‘or’ is used to imply an alternative (you can look that up too up if you wish). As in, trustworthy *or* performing consistently well. Not trustworthy *and* performing consistently well. But, we are arguing semantics.
The point is, reliable as defined under under what set of conditions? Sitting in a sock drawer for 3 decades? Under water after being frozen in a block of ice and dropped from a helicopter? At the rental counter of a high-volume range? In the hands of a skilled user who routinely applies proper maintenance and lubrication? In the hands of a total neophyte who applies zero maintenance whatsoever? With substandard ammunition? Buried in mud and sand? Etc, etc, etc.
I believe that most autos are more reliable than most revolvers under conditions of *physical* abuse. Sand, mud, abusive handling, corrosive conditions, etc. I believe that most revolvers tolerate a lack of lubrication/maintenance and substandard ammunition better than most autos. The word *most* is different than the word *all*.
I have had troubles out of both types. I have had zero malfunctions out of several high round count revolvers and autos. I have had persistent (until fixed) problems out of both revolvers and autos. Then again, I don’t leave them in a sock drawer for 30 years, I don’t fill them with mud or sand, and I don’t shoot 10,000 rounds between cleaning. I guess it would be a toss up for me based on personal experience. I guess I would go Glock 17 (gen 3) first and a bunch of other stuff second.
As a follow-up, suppose you had to select one brand new handgun with which to defend your life with no prior testing or range time. As in, load it, walk out the door, and expect it to work. What would it be? Based on my experience I would struggle to pick between a G17 and a Smith and Wesson 586/687.
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 429
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 429 |
The dictionary defines re·li·a·bil·i·ty /rəˌlīəˈbilədē/ noun the quality of being trustworthy or of performing consistently well.
Sticking something in a drawer for 30 years and using it once has zero to do with reliability.
“Consistently” implies repeated use. You completely missed his point, twice, which is impressive. I'd try, but it's fairly apparent it won't sink in.
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Posts: 3,519
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,519 |
Revolvers are way more reliable than autos when fired inside a bag or coat pocket and if you want your first or second shot to be snake loads, the wheelgun will cycle them with no complaints.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Posts: 30,950
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,950 |
Who's going to volunteer to do the new series of youtube video's.
Store a loaded gun in a sock drawer for 30 years. Take the dresser to the range, pull the gun straightout of the drawer and see if it will fire. Better start loading dressers now so we can start watching video's in 2050.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886 |
Autos are ammo sensitive and usually magazine sensitive. Many auto designs barely work - that is; alter spring tension, feed angle, slide velocity just a little and you get a jam. A revolver can be proved quicker and with more certainty.
Last edited by night_owl; 11/21/20.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,247
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,247 |
Forgive my ignorance of things Glock. What was up with the water failure? Marine cups, I think he said? WTH? Water can get in the firing pin channel. It acts like a shock absorber and slows the firing pin. Causes misfire. Marine cups allow slop, so the water can be displaced. But, that opens the channel if you blow a case. They are used in guns meant for users that might immerse them. Wouldn't it be simpler to just use a revolver? Seriously.....thanks. I didn't even know that was an option.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,856
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
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Autos are ammo sensitive and usually magazine sensitive. Many auto designs barely work - that is; alter spring tension, feed angle, slide velocity just a little and you get a jam. A revolver can be proved quicker and with more certainty.
What's the last semi-auto you bought?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
Autos are ammo sensitive and usually magazine sensitive. Many auto designs barely work - that is; alter spring tension, feed angle, slide velocity just a little and you get a jam. A revolver can be proved quicker and with more certainty.
you are either delusional, retarded or just pretending to be stupid in order to start a fight, pick any revolver you want and put it against a g19.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,059
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,059 |
Interesting video and comments. The one issue not addressed is how do you prevent the dirt baths. In the past when men carried handguns or rifles in extreme conditions the guns were cased. THE holster of choice of for militaries and woodman of merit had 2 common features. A closed toe and a full flap. Didn't matter which brand or what material it was made of. This kept the gun as protected as possible till the needed. An open top holster not only invite dirt and debris but allow it to accumulate.
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,886 |
Autos are ammo sensitive and usually magazine sensitive. Many auto designs barely work - that is; alter spring tension, feed angle, slide velocity just a little and you get a jam. A revolver can be proved quicker and with more certainty.
you are either delusional, retarded or just pretending to be stupid in order to start a fight, pick any revolver you want and put it against a g19. A good modern auto pistol is plenty reliable; just not as reliable as a good revolver.
abusus non tollit usum
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,943
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,943 |
In general, I am drawn more to revolvers and have used them just a bit more than semi autos (including wearing out a new Model 29), by but I have had more reliability issues with revolvers than autos. I carry and use both, but that’s my experience in using both extensively for almost 50 years.
Neither are perfect. Machines break.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952 |
Interesting video and comments. The one issue not addressed is how do you prevent the dirt baths. In the past when men carried handguns or rifles in extreme conditions the guns were cased. THE holster of choice of for militaries and woodman of merit had 2 common features. A closed toe and a full flap. Didn't matter which brand or what material it was made of. This kept the gun as protected as possible till the needed. An open top holster not only invite dirt and debris but allow it to accumulate. Ammo ends up in the wash more than the entire gun, even when just dicking around.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,952 |
Autos are ammo sensitive and usually magazine sensitive. Many auto designs barely work - that is; alter spring tension, feed angle, slide velocity just a little and you get a jam. A revolver can be proved quicker and with more certainty.
you are either delusional, retarded or just pretending to be stupid in order to start a fight, pick any revolver you want and put it against a g19. Never seen a G19 run 700fps wadcutters to 1300 loads without a hobble, but even a cheap ass wheelie does so.
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