“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Years back on this forum BillR mentioned he'd never seen that very rifle in his travels: a barrel band, saddle ring 1899 as cataloged in the 1901, IIRC, by Savage.
The breech bolt denotes the rifle's serial number of 10.55X is in the right range. And when compared to an 1895 SRC the stock dimensions look right...
Fun stuff Rory! Thanks for posting.
"Rhetoric is no substitute for reality." -Thomas Sowell
I've never met anybody that's seen a barrel band 1899 saddle ring carbine, not Fug, Rick, Ralph, BillR, nobody..
The 1900-1902? catalogs show an 1895 barrel band carbine in the catalog in place of an 1899. Then through 1905/1906 it shows an 1895 carbine without a barrel band. I don't think a correct 1899 carbine is shown until 1907.
But all of the early 1899 saddle ring carbines anybody have seen are correct non-barrel band 1899 carbines. So this, as far as I know, is a first if it's correct.
That forearm and band does look correct for an 1895 carbine.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Agree with Rory, the forend and barrel band really look off. Would Savage cover up the barrel stamps with the band? Winchester never did and something looking like that would have never left the factory.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson
That looks like a 1930's barrel band. The buttstock cheeks have been heavily sanded and the stock refinished, which in and of itself isn't anything, but adds to the possibility of a different forearm being fashioned at some point. That and the lettering under the band, I would, in my model specific ignorance, not bet on it being legit.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
That looks like a 1930's barrel band. The buttstock cheeks have been heavily sanded and the stock refinished, which in and of itself isn't anything, but adds to the possibility of a different forearm being fashioned at some point. That and the lettering under the band, I would, in my model specific ignorance, not bet on it being legit.
The lettering does seem odd to be under the band. But would Savage have stressed about that for a style that was only 1 or 5 or 20 rifles?
I think the forearm band is right, besides the screwhead being on the wrong side. Here's the 1899 on top, and two 1895's under it. My 1931 99H doesn't have the indentation at the top of the band like all of these do.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
I join the majority here, no specific info re this early model. Simply joining illustration, mine perhaps last iteration of the "barrel band" in Savage producion. Photos below of 1938 production Model "H" barrel band carbine. Sidebar: .250 chambering, Weaver scope & Stith (no drill) mount. Reference to the above Winchester situation of intentionally obscuring markings. Very unlikely but 'possible' where manufacture of only few as found in some "parts cleanup" produced rifles. I'm wondering about the circumstance leading to such purported ultra-rare production at all. If the rifle in question is considered "ultra-rare", also to be conjuring in terms of how difficult to fake. That barrel band might be problematic unless used on later editions. Does the stock have a shoulder to which the band is abutting? Hoping for 'happy ending here' complete with wisdom attached! Best & DO Keep Safe! John
Reference to the above Winchester situation of intentionally obscuring markings. Very unlikely but 'possible' where manufacture of only few as found in some "parts cleanup" produced rifles. I'm wondering about the circumstance leading to such purported ultra-rare production at all. If the rifle in question is considered "ultra-rare", also to be conjuring in terms of how difficult to fake. That barrel band might be problematic unless used on later editions. Does the stock have a shoulder to which the band is abutting? Hoping for 'happy ending here' complete with wisdom attached! Best & DO Keep Safe! John
There's only two reasons for Savage to have produced 1899 carbines with barrel bands like the 1895, in my mind. 1) Savage had extra carbine forearms and bands left over from the 1895 production and decided to use them up. No reason not to, the catalog showed 1899 carbines with barrel bands. 2) Savage made a few very early 1899 carbines with barrel bands as new parts, and we've just never seen any before this one. They then decided to drop the barrel band for some reason and discontinued them quickly.
Rick once suggested that the reason you see so few early 1899 carbines is that they had some 1895 carbines left over that they sold in 1899 and after. We've seen a couple 1895 carbines letter as having shipped late and they had 1899 bolts, I believe.
Could this rifle have been changed decades later? Technically.. If somebody could find a barrel band that looked right and fit (or could make one)? Sure.. be pretty easy to do that while you were refinishing the stock. No specific reason to think that happened. Might even have been an attempt to restore it - if they saw a 1900 catalog or even Murray's, they'd have thought that an early 1899 carbine should have a barrel band.
As a sample of one, there's so many things you have to wonder about.
At the moment, I think it's in the original configuration. The rear sight slot is positioned right for a carbine, the muzzle is crowned like a carbine.. Removing the forearm might answer the questions by seeing if the serial number is on the forearm and bottom of the barrel, if the barrel is cut for a screw attachment on the forearm, etc.
Last edited by Calhoun; 11/23/20.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
1. My half octagon serial #10.449 has an 1895 forearm. Savage didn't throw away leftover parts. We've documented this many times. 2. My 99H 300 Sav has a 22" barrel with the barrel band partially obscuring the barrel address. A number of others have been observed with the barrel address partially obscured including some 99H's in other calibers. In the case of the 99H 300 it was only produced in 1940/41 when most models were being discontinued. Savage may have been using up leftover 99T barrels. 3. Kiwi and I each have leftover 1895 carbines that left the factory mid-1899. Both have had the barrels shortened to 20" and have an 1899 bolt. My carbine letters as having left the factory in June 1899. It was shipped to Canada. There has been some talk on the forum that these leftovers were exported. 4. The wood condition not matching the condition of the bluing makes the rifle suspect and the fact that no one has ever seen another 1899 carbine in this condition also makes it suspect. Serial numbers on the forearm, buttstock and buttplate will tell the story.
wyo1895 With Savage never say never. For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you. [email protected]
Did Savage actually place the barrel band over the lettering on the barrel? Just asking because I don't know. It just surprises me, but I guess anything is possible!
Did Savage actually place the barrel band over the lettering on the barrel? Just asking because I don't know. It just surprises me, but I guess anything is possible!
My 1931 99H does not have the band over the barrel address. But it's a 303, so not an unusual configuration like David's 300, or this 1899F.
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
“The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
![[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50636099727_bde4580d69_o.jpg)
