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Originally Posted by Waders
No, but given the facts (assuming they're all true), It's the only possible answer I can think of, given what I know about the 1911. (Even if my response isn't what happened, it could have been correct).


Excellent analysis. If that’s not exactly what happened, it was something very close to it.

With 1911s, cocked and locked is always best. There seem to be two kinds of people who prefer to carry a 1911 with the hammer down on a loaded chamber, those who have been perforated and those who will be perforated.





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So what's the backstory on this--is this a past incident from a police locker room? Something currently under investigation? What?


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Originally Posted by Waders
So what's the backstory on this--is this a past incident from a police locker room? Something currently under investigation? What?


Currently pending, so I can’t say much more about it. But, it’s happened before with people who just haven’t gotten the word about cocked and locked, and likely relied on movies and television dramas for their 1911 handling skills.

Please spread the word to those who need to hear it.



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With 1911s, cocked and locked is always best.


No offense intended Friend, but that simply not so. Condition 1 is simply an available option. The notion that Condition 1 was "how the gun was designed to be carried" was put forth by Jeff Cooper.
It has nothing to back it up in the historical record or in the patents.
Take an as designed cocked 1911 and then draw the hammer back as far as possible and observe that the hammer defeats the grip safety. Unless you think John Browning made a mistake in the design, that alone illustrates his intent.
The only negligent discharge I have ever witnessed with a 1911 was a pinhead who carried in Condition 1, inadvertently swiped off the safety and combined those elements with poor trigger discipline.
For the record, I carry both ways. On a Mil Spec gun, I like the hammer down on the safety notch. Others that have even a modest beavertail, I carry cocked and locked. The beavertail impededs reaching the hammer with my thumb. Lowering the hammer on a 1911 is no different than lowering the hammer on a Winchester 94. I have never seen a 1911 that became cocked inadvertently. I have seen safetys swiped off a number of times.
IMO, bottom line..... Is gun. Is dangerous. Behave accordingly.

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My guess would be the hammer got pulled back and released.
Drop is out due to wound angle.

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Lowering the hammer on a 1911 is no different than lowering the hammer on a Winchester 94.


Except that the M94 will be handled by both hands to keep it firmly and safely in control and pointed in a safe direction. Most people that I have observed lowering the hammer on a handgun do that with only one hand, the hand gripping the gun. Lowering a 1911 hammer is an awkward manipulation and done one handed might lead to fumbling by a user not thoroughly familiar with the weapon.


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Personally I have never lowered with one had, design element or not, on a loaded chamber.
I prefer to place my thumb under the hammer, rolling it out of the way as the other thumb controls the hammer. The original "Thumb Safety". cool
How others choose to do it I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by MOGC
Quote
Lowering the hammer on a 1911 is no different than lowering the hammer on a Winchester 94.


Except that the M94 will be handled by both hands to keep it firmly and safely in control and pointed in a safe direction. Most people that I have observed lowering the hammer on a handgun do that with only one hand, the hand gripping the gun. Lowering a 1911 hammer is an awkward manipulation and done one handed might lead to fumbling by a user not thoroughly familiar with the weapon.


Some years ago, Winchester had to pay a guy a bunch of money (then added the infamous manual safety) because the guy managed to balance the tip of the Model 94 sear on the tip of the hammer’s half-cock notch such that the rifle fired when slightly bumped as the guy was hoisting the rifle up into a tree stand muzzle first.

While morons will always find a way to hurt themselves, on a 1911 pistol, cocked and locked is still the best carry option for most folks.



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I've never believed that hammer down with the firing pin on live round was a good idea



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1911s have inertia activated firing pins. The pin is shorter then the hole it sets in, so the firing pin spring has to poke it out the rear enough for the hammer to strike it. If you hold a 1911 pin down flush in back the nose of it doesn't stick out the front of the breach face at all. If the hammer is down there is not any way for the pit to be hit by the hammer. Before many 1911s had firing pin locks, (series 80 and following) the guns could discharge if struck HARD on the muzzle because the gun stops dead, but the pin can continue forward and hit the primer. But with all those having F. Pin locks that can't happen anymore either. Even when those old guns would do that, the bullet hit the object that struck the muzzle.

So something is wrong with the details as he stated them. The way it's described... it's not possible.

It's like saying a car engine revs too fast even though all it's spark plugs were missing. No spark, no compression, no running engine, and no one who knows how the machine works will believe the story.

I'd say that the hammer DID get cocked somehow. The 1/2 cock notch should catch it is there was a slip, unless the gun has been "tuned" wrong. But the pin had to poke out the rear of the firing pin retainer for it to be hit at all------ and the idea of it shooting him in the leg by the postol being struck backwards on it's muzzle is not going to happen unless his leg is made of stone or metal.

Last edited by szihn; 11/24/20.
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Occam's Razor is the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Dude screwed up.


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Originally Posted by Uncle_Alvah
Personally I have never lowered with one had, design element or not, on a loaded chamber.
I prefer to place my thumb under the hammer, rolling it out of the way as the other thumb controls the hammer. The original "Thumb Safety". cool
How others choose to do it I have no idea.


I lower the hammer on a 1911 by pinching the hammer between thumb and 1st finger of left hand and controlling it to fully lowered that way. Easy procedure once you get used to it. I found 1911s very awkward to uncock with just the right thumb.

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Just seems strange that a "lefty" carrying IWB would manage to shoot himself in the LEFT groin/upper thigh.
I'd have thought the right side would have seen the damage.


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Likely the main cause was simply carrying a 1911


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Likely the main cause was simply carrying a 1911


The main cause was the idiotic practice of lowering the hammer on a live round



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