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Hi,
Just got a kimber montana in 338wm. Has 26 inch barrel. Bought some barnes 210 ttsx bullets and trying to decide on powder. Trying to stick with non temp sensitive and get me to 2900 FPS. I’m hearing H4340 or maybe IMR 4350? Any help would be great.

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With 210's & lighter, I've always gotten better velocity with same accuracy, with RL-19 vs either of the 4350's..............just could never get to same velocity w/o pressure signs & that's on 4 different 338's.

For >210's, RL-22 or MRP, now RL-26.

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H4350. You'll be just fine with a 210. RL19 is fine for the lighter pills, but I gave up on it and decided to just run H4350, since I use it for so many other cartridges. I've had much better luck getting excellent accuracy with H4350 and IMR 4350, even though RL19 produces higher velocities. When 2 powders are that close in performance, I'll give up a little speed for accuracy. Since the OP is looking for a good temp stable powder, H is the way to go. His 2900 fps goal will be pretty easily attained with the 26" tube. My current 338wm pushes 225's at an average of 2,856 fps with a 24" barrel. That's the accuracy node for my barrel with the 225gr pill I'm using.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
If I were the OP, I'd buy a pound of each powder (RL19 and H4350) and let the rifle decide which powder it liked best.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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My go to load in my Ruger Hawkeye is AA4350 with the 210 TTSX. 71.3 grains if I remember correctly. It’s killed 4 moose with 1 round each and I have all four bullets on my shelf perfectly expanded. Sub Moa at 100 yds all day long....


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Originally Posted by Benj9002
Hi,
Just got a kimber montana in 338wm. Has 26 inch barrel. Bought some barnes 210 ttsx bullets and trying to decide on powder. Trying to stick with non temp sensitive and get me to 2900 FPS. I’m hearing H4340 or maybe IMR 4350? Any help would be great.


When my M77 had a 24" tube, I was bumping 2,900 with RL15 and the 210 TTSX. I was going that route to keep recoil down, as compared to the slower burning powders.


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Originally Posted by JPro
Originally Posted by Benj9002
Hi,
Just got a kimber montana in 338wm. Has 26 inch barrel. Bought some barnes 210 ttsx bullets and trying to decide on powder. Trying to stick with non temp sensitive and get me to 2900 FPS. I’m hearing H4340 or maybe IMR 4350? Any help would be great.


When my M77 had a 24" tube, I was bumping 2,900 with RL15 and the 210 TTSX. I was going that route to keep recoil down, as compared to the slower burning powders.



Thats a great idea. It sounds funny and i know guys are going to call bs on your statement, but I've seen it more than once with the 338wm. One of the reasons I stopped using RL19. Just didn't want to make it sound like I was insulting montanaman's suggestion by making such a claim. Sometimes he gets a sandy mangina... A lot of my buddies still run IMR4350 with their 210's around here. I like H4350 better, so that's what I"ve stuck with..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I use R17 with the 210 Swifts. Haven't had any temp issues from 90+ degrees on the range in Virginia to 0-40 degrees in Idaho, Wyoming or Oregon. Might not be the best, but it is so consistently accurate I have a hard time wanting to change the load at all.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
I use R17 with the 210 Swifts. Haven't had any temp issues from 90+ degrees on the range in Virginia to 0-40 degrees in Idaho, Wyoming or Oregon. Might not be the best, but it is so consistently accurate I have a hard time wanting to change the load at all.



That's the nice thing about the 338wm. A lot of things work in terms of powder, bullets and such. I've never seen a picky 338wm. All were easy to load for and it didn't matter if it was a lowly ol Ruger m77 or custom or factory winchester model 70 (pre or post doesn't matter either). One guy I know loads his 210's in his classic stainless to a touch over 3,000 fps. It has a 26" tube though, so that helps a bit with velocity. I believe his rifle to be every bit as accurate as my semi-cutom pre 64 too. One of the reasons the 338wm is one of my favorite cartridges to load for.. Hey Scotty, I was at the LGS saturday and handling a 1962 model 70 338 Alaskan. The rifle was beautiful. Stock was in perfect condition, but for some damn reason the recoil pad had been changed. It has a repro galazan on it. There were some other things I noticed that were not original (some bluing touch up etc). Beautiful rifle, but someone tried to hard to make it look like new condition that its obvious work had been done to it. A shame and at $2,100.00, too much money for an unoriginal model 70..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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I'd like to find one for my brother BSA. I wouldn't even care too much about the stock, since I'd probably drop it into a Legend anyhow. The P64 338 Win in a Legend is about my favorite hunting rifle. He shoots mine every now and again and just smiles.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
I'd like to find one for my brother BSA. I wouldn't even care too much about the stock, since I'd probably drop it into a Legend anyhow. The P64 338 Win in a Legend is about my favorite hunting rifle. He shoots mine every now and again and just smiles.



I don't see them too often around here, but always keep my eye open for a great deal. The shop said the guy won't go lower than $2,100.00. To me, its a $1,500.00 rifle at best. Judging by the bore and bolt face condition, I'd think it would be an exceptional shooter though. The bluing on the barrel is perfect, but for some reason, they polished out part of the tang on the rifle and hot blued it. The extractor was also Highly polished out and hot blued. The bolt handle is still matte finished, but re-blued. I'm not sure why they did this to the rifle??? If your buddy still lives in Lyle, maybe you could have him evaluate it for you, if interested...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Just like H4831 is to the 270. H4350 is to the 338 win mag. I used BSA data in my 338 but with a 225gr AB.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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I’d like a P64 for him but honestly a Super Grade or Classic Stainless would be just as good either way.

I’ve never tried H4350 in mine. IMR yes, but not the H variant. I’d bet 16 works well too.

I should mess around with it but it shoots so well as is and lines up well with the 6x36 with dots I hate to mess with a good thing.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
I’d like a P64 for him but honestly a Super Grade or Classic Stainless would be just as good either way.

I’ve never tried H4350 in mine. IMR yes, but not the H variant. I’d bet 16 works well too.

I should mess around with it but it shoots so well as is and lines up well with the 6x36 with dots I hate to mess with a good thing.


I wouldn't mess with your load. You know it works great in your rifle for the temps you hunt in. Thats one of the reasons I don't mess with my load. Even though I have some great 250gr loads that I used for years and the 225gr pill isn't the toughest on water filled milk jugs (thanks again for doing those tests with that bullet). They sure do kill elk just fine. I can see where the OP's bullet in question would be about perfect for critters around here. Got to respect the Barnes for what it is and can do. Kind of like the nosler partitions. They have really proven themselves over the years. However, Barnes keeps getting better. One of the reasons I made a switch to the 175 LRX in my new to me 300WBY. Maybe the OP can keep us posted as to his progress with his loads. I'm curious as to how well they will shoot for him.. A 210 mono metal in my favorite .33 cal should be destructive elk medicine...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Without a doubt. That 210 TTSX would be the next bullet I’d like to give a whirl. It’d take 2 elk to stop on I believe.


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I appreciate all the replies, new to reloading been at it about 8 months or so but have worked great loads for 308 and 243 as well as various handguns but just getting into big mags. I have a bunch of powders but nothing mainly recommend H4350- I mr4350 or reloader 17-19 So thought I’d get one and hope it works run some ladder tests with it. Kind of leaning towards the H4350 but it is super hard to find but talked to a gun store that said they are picking up 40lb middle of this week so plan to grab one and see what happens. Looks like 68-70 grains out to get me to 2900fps with the 26 inch I think. I’ll keep ya updated.

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That would be cool Ben. You might want to grab 2 pounds of that H4350. The magnums drink a lot of powder. It will be gone before you know it... Remember if you load up 100 at 70 grains, there goes one pound of powder... Just something else to think about..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Ben,

Lots of good advise above. What MM says about Rl-19 vs. 4350's is supported by QL, but BSA load for 225's is close to mine, just substitute Win brass and Nosler 225 AB's.

A word to the wise regarding Load data on H4350. Some of the data in older manuals for H4350 is really hot, so make sure you are using modern sources.

I've had great luck with H4831, H4350, and the military surplus version of H380 with non-barnes bullets. Barnes can be a little persnickety, so I suggest being prepared to switch powders if your first choice doesn't pan out.

There a good number of contenders for velocities above 2900 out of a 26" barrel, and a boat load for 2800+. I suspect something on this list will work for you. Keep in mind this is simulated data, but in something like the .338 it's generally pretty close.

Code
Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 210, Barnes 'TTSX' BT 30428
Useable Case Capaci: 71.913 grain H2O = 4.669 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

68 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C              110.0     78.4     5.08    3048    99.9    58107    9937   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T              100.8     70.1     4.54    3016   100.0    61500    8840   1.172  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T           105.8     68.3     4.43    2999   100.0    61500    8818   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                       110.0     76.1     4.93    2993    98.4    57223    9842   1.205  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     105.6     72.3     4.68    2976    99.4    61500    9044   1.182  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      99.7     69.9     4.53    2967    98.9    61500    9017   1.187  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        99.7     69.9     4.53    2967    98.9    61500    9017   1.187  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C              110.0     72.9     4.73    2965    97.6    61400    9208   1.180  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C                       105.1     68.9     4.47    2958   100.0    61500    8690   1.190  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C                 102.0     69.1     4.48    2958    99.9    61500    8810   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209                        109.0     71.9     4.66    2957    97.4    61500    9115   1.175  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      104.5     69.3     4.49    2956   100.0    61500    8658   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C                   95.1     68.7     4.45    2951   100.0    61500    8612   1.188  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       110.0     74.9     4.85    2950    95.4    58579    9491   1.194  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR                        102.3     67.8     4.39    2949    99.8    61500    8652   1.188  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C                       104.2     71.3     4.62    2937    97.3    61500    8934   1.183  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           110.0     69.8     4.52    2932   100.0    60883    8485   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game                    95.0     67.1     4.35    2930   100.0    61500    8256   1.192  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            94.5     62.7     4.06    2923   100.0    61500    8263   1.202  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                108.0     69.2     4.49    2920   100.0    61500    7966   1.189  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                 110.0     74.5     4.83    2919    94.2    54539    9688   1.234  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C               95.4     63.2     4.10    2914   100.0    61500    8235   1.203  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C                       95.8     63.5     4.12    2912   100.0    61500    8169   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213                        110.0     73.7     4.78    2911    94.9    57178    9329   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             108.0     75.5     4.89    2909    97.2    61500    8688   1.185  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       90.2     65.2     4.23    2906   100.0    61500    8062   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        96.7     65.5     4.24    2905    99.8    61500    8352   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       97.3     65.2     4.23    2905   100.0    61500    8046   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350              104.2     68.3     4.43    2904    99.0    61500    8539   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         104.2     68.3     4.43    2904    99.0    61500    8539   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                110.0     73.7     4.78    2899    94.9    59992    8872   1.194  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C              110.0     73.7     4.78    2899    96.3    53736    9431   1.245  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T                   106.9     69.3     4.49    2898    98.3    61500    8471   1.193  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                           104.9     69.2     4.48    2897    98.4    61500    8457   1.193  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      87.7     62.6     4.05    2896   100.0    61500    7756   1.200  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar                   90.5     64.1     4.15    2896   100.0    61500    8046   1.200  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            97.3     63.5     4.11    2895   100.0    61500    7926   1.189  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       92.0     61.0     3.95    2894   100.0    61500    7967   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H                        92.3     61.2     3.97    2893   100.0    61500    8016   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    110.0     77.5     5.02    2889    92.1    53452    9613   1.249  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C        103.0     73.4     4.76    2887   100.0    61500    7816   1.188  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Long Rifle          102.9     66.7     4.32    2881    99.5    61500    8243   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         102.9     66.7     4.32    2881    99.5    61500    8243   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T              100.1     65.5     4.25    2877    98.7    61500    8306   1.195  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     110.0     79.4     5.15    2877    96.8    55310    9057   1.228  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C                      90.4     64.6     4.19    2875    99.6    61500    8157   1.202  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208                         97.6     62.8     4.07    2874   100.0    61500    7947   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T                   98.0     62.8     4.07    2874   100.0    61500    7947   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        98.2     66.0     4.28    2874    98.3    61500    8338   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031                            94.9     58.8     3.81    2871   100.0    61500    7356   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                        92.3     63.0     4.08    2869   100.0    61500    7530   1.220  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle          92.3     63.0     4.08    2869   100.0    61500    7530   1.220  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       90.2     63.0     4.08    2869   100.0    61500    7530   1.220  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                       97.0     62.9     4.08    2866   100.0    61500    7524   1.237  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            98.6     61.7     4.00    2865   100.0    61500    7773   1.201  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062                          96.3     62.1     4.03    2864   100.0    61500    7652   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision            96.3     62.1     4.03    2864   100.0    61500    7652   1.214  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C                  88.8     59.2     3.83    2863   100.0    61500    7628   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200                       90.4     60.9     3.94    2858    99.9    61500    7862   1.201  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR                        90.7     60.2     3.90    2855   100.0    61500    7549   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C                        93.4     60.6     3.92    2854   100.0    61500    7616   1.218  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C                  95.0     63.7     4.13    2849   100.0    61500    7524   1.211  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C                 104.7     65.5     4.24    2849   100.0    61500    7502   1.210  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T               99.1     62.9     4.08    2849    98.7    61500    8017   1.201  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        83.7     60.5     3.92    2847   100.0    61500    7385   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C             88.1     62.4     4.04    2846   100.0    61500    7655   1.207  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C                        92.7     60.5     3.92    2844   100.0    61500    7365   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           110.0     71.3     4.62    2842   100.0    49842    8681   1.286
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T              110.0     70.9     4.60    2839    94.8    58186    8532   1.220  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       91.3     59.2     3.84    2838   100.0    61500    7229   1.245  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230                       86.1     61.8     4.01    2837   100.0    61500    7435   1.217  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5                        86.6     61.6     3.99    2836   100.0    61500    7347   1.225  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       86.3     61.6     3.99    2836   100.0    61500    7347   1.225  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219                         83.3     57.0     3.69    2832   100.0    61500    7149   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        88.6     57.0     3.69    2832   100.0    61500    7149   1.206  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C                  99.5     63.4     4.11    2832   100.0    61500    7337   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus              85.2     60.5     3.92    2825   100.0    61500    7238   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4                        85.2     60.5     3.92    2825   100.0    61500    7238   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060                          92.7     59.8     3.87    2824   100.0    61500    7420   1.204  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700                       98.2     67.9     4.40    2821    98.1    61500    7834   1.213  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210                         84.5     57.9     3.75    2818   100.0    61500    7231   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle       85.0     60.0     3.89    2818   100.0    61500    7258   1.209  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     110.0     72.1     4.67    2813    94.9    48924    9194   1.299
Accurate 3100                      110.0     72.9     4.73    2813    98.5    53068    8473   1.285  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206                         92.1     60.4     3.91    2812   100.0    61500    7301   1.205  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T               90.1     57.8     3.74    2812   100.0    61500    6816   1.218  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark                   90.0     58.7     3.81    2811   100.0    61500    7191   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2                             82.8     58.5     3.79    2810   100.0    61500    7173   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 *C                 101.0     60.7     3.93    2809   100.0    61500    6896   1.222  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12                  88.5     59.8     3.88    2803   100.0    61500    6988   1.212  ! Near Maximum !


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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I use a lot of Alliant powders in various cartridges. Over the years, ive used more Alliant powders than most. But Reloader 17 will never compare to h4350. H4350 works better in carbine barrels as well. Don't take my word for it, go test

From 30 below zero to 80 degrees near the woodstove, I've found rl17 has serious velocity changes. This was in a 338 rcm with 225 grain fusions, 9.3x62 mauser with 300 grain swift A frame and the 308 winchester with 200 grain (bison legal) partitions. This was three different canisters of rl17 purchased from 2011 to 2018. Always velocity changes from 70-130 fps.

Though I haven't found a canister of reloader 16, this fella tested it against h4350 and the new reloader 16 was significantly more temp stable than h4340, by a large margin:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/powder-review-alliant-rl-16/amp/

If you can find a canister of rl 16, it might be worth a try. It's in the imr/hodg/aa 4350 burn range.

Last edited by mainer_in_ak; 12/02/20.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,792
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I,m using Norma MRP in my Ruger M77, 338 Mag. My bullets are the 210gr Nosler Partition as a lot of those bullets came with

the rifle when I traded it for a 30/06 Ruger. I use 215 M primers and Federal or Hornady cases. Velocity is 3041 FPS. and is very accurate.

I would suggest you Try RL26 as it always works where MRP does usually goes a little faster.

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