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15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.

Last edited by Mach3; 12/14/20.
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On our farm in 3B we took 8 deer off the farm, and could have taken even more. I got a decent 8 on the first Sunday and the first Sat of doe I saw 24 doe and a buck between 7-8am. The one neighboring farm got 6 buck and 7 doe and on the other neighbors farm they got 12 doe on the first Sat alone. So there was certainly no lack of deer and the close seasons had no effect...

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I've found that Deer that primarily reside in the bigger woods are more difficult to cross paths with than those that hang around farms...and most often give less opportunity....

Last edited by battue; 12/14/20.

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Originally Posted by tburkepa
On our farm in 3B we took 8 deer off the farm, and could have taken even more. I got a decent 8 on the first Sunday and the first Sat of doe I saw 24 doe and a buck between 7-8am. The one neighboring farm got 6 buck and 7 doe and on the other neighbors farm they got 12 doe on the first Sat alone. So there was certainly no lack of deer and the close seasons had no effect...


There must be more deer there than in the hill country of Texas. Wow


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While deer are found in big woods areas, they tend to prosper more in mixed habitats, like open grazing areas and croplands surrounded by woodlands. Years ago I read a phrase that covers that and it has proven to be true in my experience: Deer are creatures of the edge.

I hunt is that latter sort of habitat. Lots of farm crops, hay fields to graze in and more than enough wooded "sanctuary" areas to support a good population, including some nearby actual big woods areas that hardly anyone ever really gets into, due to the steep terrain and dense forest...


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Originally Posted by battue
I've found that Deer that primarily reside in the bigger woods are more difficult to cross paths with than those that hang around farms...and most often give less opportunity....
For sure.

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Originally Posted by tburkepa
On our farm in 3B we took 8 deer off the farm, and could have taken even more. I got a decent 8 on the first Sunday and the first Sat of doe I saw 24 doe and a buck between 7-8am. The one neighboring farm got 6 buck and 7 doe and on the other neighbors farm they got 12 doe on the first Sat alone. So there was certainly no lack of deer and the close seasons had no effect...


Jealous, I hunt in 3B too and saw nowhere close to that amount of deer. Where is your farm located?


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I'm located about 7 miles from Wyalusing. We have about 160 acres of woods/hay fields and pasture. Driving around our "country block", which is about 4-5 miles around it's nothing to see 50-75 deer. And that's just in the fields you can see from the dirt road. I've seen as many as 33 deer in my one 4 acre pasture. We really tried to thin the herd this year as they are devastating to our corn crop, along with bear.

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Originally Posted by dubePA
While deer are found in big woods areas, they tend to prosper more in mixed habitats, like open grazing areas and croplands surrounded by woodlands. Years ago I read a phrase that covers that and it has proven to be true in my experience: Deer are creatures of the edge.


I'm not from Pa but have hunted in Ark, La (loosEanna ha), Miss, & Al. I've hunted in 'big woods' and you guys are right,
deer are harder to consistently connect with THAN in broken habitat.

I read that "deer are creatures of the edge" too, many years ago. I don't remember who wrote it but he knew what he was talking about.

I've told 2 friends "that" during this very season.

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 12/14/20.

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Could be deer, like elk in Colorado, know what is private land.I am sure those having great success are not on National Forest or State Game lands.

Even here in Colorado,on my ;small patch, there is hardly a day goes by that I could not kill 2-3 does and a at least once a week a nice buck.

I have son living in SW PA,Washington County, and the deer there are like long legged rats. Destroying trees , shrubs, running into vehicles.When I grew up there in the 50's it was a rarity to see any deer at all.


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No but Covid ruined my deer season

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Never hunted PA.
Done well in my home state of IN.
This yr sucked.
Very few deer.
Bud checked game cams, 2 weeks and one oic of 2 deer running. Of course he got a pic of the neighbor walking his fuggin dog through the middle of our little thicket.


Said he saw him walking it along field edge like 4th day of season.

WTF

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I live and hunt in 2D. It was a strange year deer wise. I saw one shooter all of bow season. Very few doe in legal shooting hours. I got a nice 9 point the last day. The only deer I saw btw. Everyone I spoke to about deer hunting had the same results as me. Now there are deer here, and lots of posted ground. The biggest problem I see is lack of hunting pressure. We just don't have the hunters anymore to get the deer up and moving.

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Congrats on the 9 thumbcocker

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Mach3, where did you hunt? I hunted outside of Bradford 2F and over by Mount Jewet 2H, nothing was moving during the day. Didn't hear very many shots either, not sure why. Heard they took a lot of deer during bow and muzzleloader, don't know how true that is. Everyone was complaining about the archery and bear season being too close together. Seems like they were in the thick stuff and not moving until dark...too much pressure in the weeks leading up to opening day......

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We killed one best 5 bucks and 5 doe

I was the only one who hunted our place for bear


Have a ton of deer on cams. Saw very few during the day..


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My opinion our year wasn't good at all (NNY) The rut doesn't seem to have kicked in and our season is over. I never even raised my rifle on the few deer I did see, just a strange year. Normally ya hear shots being fired quite often while out but very few this year. My nephew cuts up deer on the side and normally does 60-80, this year 27

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I saw 37 does and zero bucks in Northern NY this year. First year I haven't seen a buck or got one since 1986. I did shoot one in the southern tier. Seen lots of buck sign but with no snow it was hard to find horns. I hunted 35 days of rifle season.

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In my area the deer are in the thickest, nastiest stuff which is why I hunt 17’ in the air. There are deer trails everywhere that come to a small opening where I get my opportunity. I saw a number of deer this year and got an eight point.

I can only hunt with bow or crossbow in my area.


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Three of us went in cold and saw an average of 4 deer a day per person and killed the deer we wanted. We all had our crosshairs on deer every day. My worst day was seeing one deer and the best was 9. Coming from northern Maine, it was refreshing to hunt around deer every day. We all decided to not fill all of the tags we had but certainly could have

I personally saw 4 bucks and killed a small 6 pointer. I also saw what I consider to be a Maine quality buck. I guess it is all about perspective but we were impressed.

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Originally Posted by brucebruce
I hunted 35 days of rifle season.
Wow. How long is your rifle season?

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Originally Posted by Mach3
15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.


It may not have been productive, but if you got out and hunted instead of sitting on the couch, well, it was still successful.

That said, I feel for your disappointment. Last year was the first year in over a decade that we came home empty handed.

Then, this year we both shot two big ones.

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My dad was at the barber shop today, from what he was hearing there, very slow season with not much sucess. Barber and his son both tagged bucks during archery but they went to camp anyhow. Their camp only got one deer.

I only saw 6 on the farm here, earlier in the year I could see upwards of 10 or 11 while out for my evening walk. So they are in the area, just not being stirred up. Lots of posted ground around and there seems to be more and more deer shacks. Hardly anybody out beating the brush.

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We have a week of muzzle loader then rifle and another week of muzzle loader ours go went from 10/10-12/13 that's for our northern zone here in NY. Saw more fawns this past spring than I can remember ever seeing but hardly see any starting mid September.

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i think the weather had an effect this year. it was too nice and people (like me) sat mostly. not much shooting in 4A even though it was buck/doe the whole two weeks. i hunt almost all SF land that is all part of one continuous mountain range and i have seen less deer since the combined seasons started but more nice bucks. it is actually kind of nice to get excited when i see a lone deer because a lot of the time these days it is a buck. might not be a shooter but a buck sighting is a win in my book. i had a decent one come in behind me before daylight the first day but i thought it left. then after daylight the wind shifted and i heard it snort and take off and thats when i saw the rack. nice buck, probably a 16" or so with quite a few points. next year i am going to the thicks early.


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Originally Posted by rem141r
i think the weather had an effect this year. it was too nice and people (like me) sat mostly. not much shooting in 4A even though it was buck/doe the whole two weeks. i hunt almost all SF land that is all part of one continuous mountain range and i have seen less deer since the combined seasons started but more nice bucks. it is actually kind of nice to get excited when i see a lone deer because a lot of the time these days it is a buck. might not be a shooter but a buck sighting is a win in my book. i had a decent one come in behind me before daylight the first day but i thought it left. then after daylight the wind shifted and i heard it snort and take off and thats when i saw the rack. nice buck, probably a 16" or so with quite a few points. next year i am going to the thicks early.



4A is where I rifle hunt as well. Clearville area mostly

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Back in the 80s and early 90s we hunted just outside Gettysburg, within sight of the Eisenhower Farm. After the first few days, they all headed for the battlefield, where they were unmolested until the snipers started in on them.

Here in the Eastern Panhandle of WV, it gets tough after the first couple of days of Rifle season. Haven’t seen a deer in my last four trips (at least) since opening day 11/23. It’s an easy stroll to private land from the WMA. Have had some fine mornings in the woods though and seen a bunch of turkeys, squirrels, and songbirds. Still have a bunch of days to go, but also have an Earn-a-Buck hanging over my head. Gotta get a doe down before the end of the year if I want to be buck-eligable for the Mountaineer Heritage season.


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Originally Posted by Mach3
Originally Posted by rem141r
i think the weather had an effect this year. it was too nice and people (like me) sat mostly. not much shooting in 4A even though it was buck/doe the whole two weeks. i hunt almost all SF land that is all part of one continuous mountain range and i have seen less deer since the combined seasons started but more nice bucks. it is actually kind of nice to get excited when i see a lone deer because a lot of the time these days it is a buck. might not be a shooter but a buck sighting is a win in my book. i had a decent one come in behind me before daylight the first day but i thought it left. then after daylight the wind shifted and i heard it snort and take off and thats when i saw the rack. nice buck, probably a 16" or so with quite a few points. next year i am going to the thicks early.



4A is where I rifle hunt as well. Clearville area mostly


i hunt buchanan over on sideling hill, rays cove and thereabouts. have also hunted the SGL down around clearville. i need to recheck those again. used to be some decent ground down there but i haven't hunted it in at least 20 years.


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Originally Posted by goalie


It may not have been productive, but if you got out and hunted instead of sitting on the couch, well, it was still successful.






That's my thought as well. Time in nature and hanging with the buds is alright by me.

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Originally Posted by DANNYL
My opinion our year wasn't good at all (NNY) The rut doesn't seem to have kicked in and our season is over. I never even raised my rifle on the few deer I did see, just a strange year. Normally ya hear shots being fired quite often while out but very few this year. My nephew cuts up deer on the side and normally does 60-80, this year 27

Lean year down here in 4O too. Our camp shot a small 6 and a nice 7 point. I didn't see a deer the last 4 days I hunted.


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Our newest member at camp, an 11 year old, shot his first deer on the second Saturday with his Grandpa. He got a nice little 8 point.

Other than that it was super quiet. I hunted the first four days and saw nothing legal. Very few shots were heard. Many camps never opened. We had 7 at camp. We usually have 11 or 12.

The PA Game commission screwed up the rifle season. PA's rifle season is after the rut and requires pressure to get bucks moving during the day. Every year we're seeing less and less pressure.


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Obviously been after the rut for years...the pressure comes from hunters.... and with many camps not opening, it means Pa hunters are as much to blame as the GC....The Pa Deer rifle hunting tradition has died....Some can write about it and the memories they have, but essentially all that is left is memories...Reason being there are not that many Pa rifle hunters that really want to hunt....I was out for everyday but two....After the second day almost all the shooting occurred after 4pm...Other than that I may have heard a total of 50 shots in two weeks....maybe less. It's died a long time ago..

Bab's singing the opening anthem would be appropriate...."Memories, nothing more than memories"

That and the fact the GC kisses the bowhunters ass.....gives them first crack, the best weather and season and in addition extends it...And the GC prefers the silent killers over the noise makers....Not sure they screwed it up...especially if that is what they prefer....

Not all that adverse to the bow crew...but my way would be to pick your weapon...You either hunt bow or rifle...but not both. Crossbow???? Well it used to be one had to have a Dr's excuse, but the liers on both sides made the GC give in.. Now half the "bow" hunters are really crossbow hunters...What a joke....

The GC has taken on the task of protecting the Eagles, Ows, Hawks, Fishers.....Let the Feds watch over them and spend their money, instead of Pa hunters dollars that could be spent to benefit us and them...What's next the Eastern Red Wolf....I wouldn't bet against it....

Addition:

An out of State hunter told me they never saw a boot track once they got around 500 yards off the road....they never saw another hunter back in...They killed Deer and plan on coming back...Perhaps they are the next generation to carry on the Pa Deer hunting tradition...

Addition: Not only has the Pa Deer hunting tradition died, but so has the Pa traditional Deer hunter...Those old boys would be screaming about what is going on today. Back then, right or wrong ...wrong, but killing mother Doe had yet to be wise management...they bought Doe tags and then publically burnt them in piles....A friend this year killed two Does when there were few in his area, and made himself feel good by donating the meat..

Last edited by battue; 12/17/20.

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Originally Posted by Mach3
15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.


I was not able to get back this year but my brother and his boys got theirs the first day. Niece got hers during archery while she was off work due to coming down with covid.


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Lol we should have all arranged to 'get covid' during season...I wasn't smart enough I guess...2 weeks to hunt would have been great

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Originally Posted by battue
Obviously been after the rut years...the pressure comes from hunters.... and with many camps not opening, it means Pa hunters are as much to blame as the GC....The Pa Deer rifle hunting tradition has died....Some can write about it and the memories they have, but essentially all that is left is memories...Reason being there are not that many Pa rifle hunters that really want to hunt....I was out for everyday but two....After the second day almost all the shooting occurred after 4pm...Other than that I may have heard a total of 50 shots in two weeks....maybe less. It's died a long time ago..

Bab's singing the opening anthem would be appropriate...."Memories, nothing more than memories"

That and the fact the GC kisses the bowhunters ass.....gives them first crack, the best weather and season and in addition extends it...And the GC prefers the silent killers over the noise makers....Not sure they screwed it up...especially if that is what they prefer....

Not all that adverse to the bow crew...but my way would be to pick your weapon...You either hunt bow or rifle...but not both. Crossbow???? Well it used to be one had to have a Dr's excuse, but the liers on both sides made the GC give in.. Now half the "bow" hunters are really crossbow hunters...What a joke....

The GC has taken on the task of protecting the Eagles, Ows, Hawks, Fishers.....Let the Feds watch over them and spend their money, instead of Pa hunters dollars that could be spent to benefit us and them...What's next the Eastern Red Wolf....I wouldn't bet against it....

Addition:

An out of State hunter told me they never saw a boot track once they got around 500 yards off the road....they never saw another hunter back in...They killed Deer and plan on coming back...Perhaps they are the next generation to carry on the Pa Deer hunting tradition...

Addition: Not only has the Pa Deer hunting tradition died, but so has the Pa traditional Deer hunter...Those old boys would be screaming about what is going on today. Back then, right or wrong ...wrong, but killing mother Doe had yet to be wise management...they bought Doe tags and then publically burnt them in piles....A friend this year killed two Does when there were few in his area, and made himself feel good by donating the meat..



I couldn't agree more. But other than the old guys in our group, we are usually stomping, crawling and fighting our way through the thickets near water to see what kind of mature bucks we kick out. Never much success. Our lack of success definitely isn't because of a lack of effort.

Maybe we need a change of location or private land permission.

I've been hunting for 25 years now and my ambition and dream of a 160+ big buck hasn't dwindled a bit since I first stepped into the woods.

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Originally Posted by mjbgalt
Lol we should have all arranged to 'get covid' during season...I wasn't smart enough I guess...2 weeks to hunt would have been great

No it wasn't. I was off the entire two weeks but most days I was too sick to make it out. I had a lot of trouble breathing. I'm just glad I didn't end up on a ventilator because I did slip out hunting here and there and suffered a health setback each time.

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Originally Posted by battue
Obviously been after the rut years...the pressure comes from hunters.... and with many camps not opening, it means Pa hunters are as much to blame as the GC....The Pa Deer rifle hunting tradition has died....Some can write about it and the memories they have, but essentially all that is left is memories...Reason being there are not that many Pa rifle hunters that really want to hunt....I was out for everyday but two....After the second day almost all the shooting occurred after 4pm...Other than that I may have heard a total of 50 shots in two weeks....maybe less. It's died a long time ago..

Bab's singing the opening anthem would be appropriate...."Memories, nothing more than memories"

That and the fact the GC kisses the bowhunters ass.....gives them first crack, the best weather and season and in addition extends it...And the GC prefers the silent killers over the noise makers....Not sure they screwed it up...especially if that is what they prefer....

Not all that adverse to the bow crew...but my way would be to pick your weapon...You either hunt bow or rifle...but not both. Crossbow???? Well it used to be one had to have a Dr's excuse, but the liers on both sides made the GC give in.. Now half the "bow" hunters are really crossbow hunters...What a joke....

The GC has taken on the task of protecting the Eagles, Ows, Hawks, Fishers.....Let the Feds watch over them and spend their money, instead of Pa hunters dollars that could be spent to benefit us and them...What's next the Eastern Red Wolf....I wouldn't bet against it....

Addition:

An out of State hunter told me they never saw a boot track once they got around 500 yards off the road....they never saw another hunter back in...They killed Deer and plan on coming back...Perhaps they are the next generation to carry on the Pa Deer hunting tradition...

Addition: Not only has the Pa Deer hunting tradition died, but so has the Pa traditional Deer hunter...Those old boys would be screaming about what is going on today. Back then, right or wrong ...wrong, but killing mother Doe had yet to be wise management...they bought Doe tags and then publically burnt them in piles....A friend this year killed two Does when there were few in his area, and made himself feel good by donating the meat..



Truth!

Don't know if you Flintlock or not.
When we had deer, it was by far my favorite hunting.

We complained and fought for years for a better season.

After a couple years of ads for in lines in the rule book (hint)
They gave us an October season.
For in-lines. CHA-CHING!!!
Does only, at the same time archery is killing bucks.

PGC blows. Period.


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The PGC absolutely blows. If you use a bow you're golden

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And then again let's not forget what we do to ourselves in the way of posted land...Growing up, when I got a drivers license the world of hunting opened up wide....Now, the youth of today predominantly will spend a tank of gas to find open private land to hunt....As a kid I pretty much had all of Armstrong, Indiana, Franklin, Westmoreland, Washington, etc counties to roam at will...Not today. And they can ask nice, but most times will be turned down...And then they say screw it and move on to something else...

Farmers and hunters at one time were in the game together....for the most part not any more...But when it comes to the farm bills....now we have a different game...."and you know us farmers are there for you, help us out here." Ya right.....


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True that. I can remember in my youth thinking that I have more private land available to me to hunt than I can really get to in a season. These days I hunt all public land

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Originally Posted by Dillonbuck



Truth!

Don't know if you Flintlock or not.
When we had deer, it was by far my favorite hunting.

We complained and fought for years for a better season.

After a couple years of ads for in lines in the rule book (hint)
They gave us an October season.
For in-lines. CHA-CHING!!!
Does only, at the same time archery is killing bucks.

PGC blows. Period.


And here is another...After 65 years of age, people are dropping out of hunting drastically....So some genius comes up with a carrot to wave in front of their nose....We will let you have a weekend in October, were the over 65 crowd can shoot a Deer...Again, while the Bow crowd can stick a Buck for a month.... and more than one if they don't stick good....you old farts can only shoot a Doe....with a purchased Doe tag.....

Gotta love it or you wouldn't play...and many are losing the love...




Last edited by battue; 12/17/20.

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The deer population is still way down from everything I see, and hear spoken locally here in 4A. Sure, there are small pockets of underpressured type "field deer" here and there , but just because it's private doesn't mean it's holding alot of deer. Hard to blame it on the orange army when there's a lack there of, but still....you see some pieces of private property with very low pressure decline yr after yr.
A friend has a small, but generally productive property that is surrounded by private, and the back side butts up to a 10,000 acre gun club with like 15 members. His hunting has come to the point he's lucky to see a buck, and I believe he saw like 10 deer during season and he sat all day for 6-7 days. I hunted SGL #49 near Amaranth, and heard a fair amount of shooting the first day, but only saw 4 does . Had to work Sunday, but was able to return and take a big doe the third day from #49.

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We need to drink a beer and bitch together.

We own a bit of land, been in my family since 1957.

I grew up hunting with my step dad, and except for 3 pricks that
didn't allow hunting, we ran all over a 7 mile long ridge.
Ask to hunt deer, small game we mostly just hunted.

Run into a farmer/landowner, standing around for an hour catching up.
They usually seemed slightly annoyed when they ask, "Why don't you ever
come hunt deer with us?" After the first day, many drove and the more the merrier.

We didn't do big party drive hunting, so just went our way.

Point is, I only know a few of those landowners now.
Most farms are chopped. Very few would allow me to hunt.

So now, we have been hunting the aforementioned land, for about 20 years.
Until then, it had never been posted. (Yep, we're pricks now)
And too many hunts are ruined for me because of trespassers.
After I get them moving, I'm done hunting. The funds over.

Another PGC gripe is that issue.
Until recently, the did not support landowners. At all.
Lip service. Reminding you to ask permission.
But they would do nothing about trespassing hunters.

I had a guy tell me, "Those $300 fines on your sign, it's a joke. People
almost never call the cops. If you do, often I can beat it in court.
If I lose, the fine for simple trespass is $50. $300 only applies if I damage
or steal property. Commit another crime.
So, if I got a $50 fine every other
year, that's $25/year. And I can hunt the whole dam state. Beats any lease
or paying taxes!"

And he was right.


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You live near Amaranth?


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Originally Posted by moosemike
True that. I can remember in my youth thinking that I have more private land available to me to hunt than I can really get to in a season. These days I hunt all public land
It's the same here. Private land all over you could hunt when I was young. There was still quite a bit that wasn't posted and common practice was that if it wasn't, you could hunt it with no need to ask permission. Beyond that, much of the land that was posted could be hunted if you just asked. Now it's pretty much all posted and damn tough to get permission unless you know somebody. The difference is trophy bucks were weren't all the rage, end all be all back then. Nobody had heard of QDM. Any legal buck was a good buck and farmers largely looked at them as pests that ate their crops so didn't mind people killing them. The whole trophy hunter QDM, big bucks or bust craze killed all that. Hunters have been their own worst enemies.

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We used to have spots on private land in 4A where we could sit the first morning and you were basically guaranteed at least a doe by 9am the first morning.

It used to sound like a war zone the first 2 days of rifle season.

Boy have times changed.

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Funny...

In the same vein, I have what's left of my Grandparents farm...56 acres....Years ago a lady was kind enough to practically give it back to me. Anyway, don't post it and kind of figure it may be my Alamo. Rarely hunt it, but one time went up to poke around...Got on the adjoining property and knew it, but close to the line...Soon I was getting yelled at and approached. "You have permission to hunt here?" "No." "Then get off." "You hunt over there?" I asked..."Yes, I do." Well then stay off of it from now on, because I own that." Gives me a look and says, "You that Neil boy, Gene and Daisy's Grandson? Bought it back from ......." "Yes" "Why didn't you say so? Good luck."


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The public land that had deer when I moved here tp PA 50 years ago has been hunted so hard by people driving deer., that the deer have moved to farmland that does not allow hunting except for family members...the deer are also staying in spots like wooded areas at highway intersections that are too small for hunters.. I don't hunt Deer anymore because of my age but it is really sad what the hunters have done to the Deer hunting.. if i wanted to hunt I would go to WV where My sister owns 800 acres of prime land 300 of it is prime deer forest.. there are usually 4 or 5,8 point bucks there .


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Originally Posted by Mach3
15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.




That sounds sad. I've only hunted PA once in '99, but even back then folks were talking about how good it once was and how bad it sucked.

Us? We had our best year ever. 5 of us brought 8 to the pole. 3 were nice 8 point bucks. I'm in Zone 1 in KY.

You problem is not COVID. It isn't seasons running together. We have Archery from Sept thru to January, and it doesn't change the November rifle hunt a bit.

The problems in PA as I see it are:

1) Long-standing mismanagement.
2) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.

There is a sweet spot in the life of forests that favor whitetails. For a lot of PA, that sweet spot has gone. There just isn't enough browse to support deer.

Here in KY, we had the Feds come in and pay farmers to permanently cease tobacco cultivation. Those that took the money either let their land go fallow or converted to beef production. All those empty farms and empty land have been a major boon to whitetails. We're now allowed as many antlerless deer as we want. It's a golden time to be a whitetail hunter in northern KY.

That's not to say this is forever. I hunted other patches of KY where they were having your bad luck. It all boiled down to the same things:

1) Past over-hunting
2) Mismanagement by the state
3) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.

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I hope most people reading this arent believing a few, crying about the good old days. The areas of pa I hunt are as diverse in types of habitat that you will find. From 2a to 2c to 2d you will find just about every type of habitat that this state has to offer, they all have one thing in common. Tons of deer. People i talk to in every part of the state who know how to hunt also say the same. I actually think it's a shame that hunters are limited to 3 antler less tags unless they find a dmap zone. The deer are there for the taking and they need shot to preserve what's left of the habitat. And yes, I hunt state forest, gamelands and private. Matter of fact my land and almost all of my neighbors is open to anyone who asks...... Sorry if the stump you sat on 200 yards from the car doesn't produce like it did 40 years ago. .....ok , flame away!

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Originally Posted by shaman
Originally Posted by Mach3
15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.




That sounds sad. I've only hunted PA once in '99, but even back then folks were talking about how good it was and how bad it sucked.

Us? We had our best year ever. 5 of us brought 8 to the pole. 3 were nice 8 point bucks. I'm in Zone 1 in KY.

You problem is not COVID. It isn't seasons running together. We have Archery from Sept thru to January, and it doesn't change the November rifle hunt a bit.

The problems in PA as I see it are:

1) Long-standing mismanagement.
2) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.

There is a sweet spot in the life of forests that favor whitetails. For a lot of PA, that sweet spot has gone. There just isn't enough browse to support deer.

Here in KY, we had the Feds come in and pay farmers to permanently cease tobacco cultivation. Those that took the money either let their land go fallow or converted to beef production. All those empty farms and empty land have been a major boon to whitetails. We're now allowed as many antlerless deer as we want. It's a golden time to be a whitetail hunter in northern KY.

That's not to say this is forever. I hunted other patches of KY where they were having your bad luck. It all boiled down to the same things:

1) Past over-hunting
2) Mismanagement by the state
3) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.



You've hunted here once. There is no problem. You have no idea what your talking about.

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Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

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Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?


Sounds about right

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Guess it all comes down to what part of the state one is hunting in. Used to hunt adjoining areas in SE Lackawanna County/Springbrook and NE Luzerne County/Suscon and Thornhurst in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. Could count 200 shots by 9am on opening day and another 100 shots or so during the course of the day. Now 20 to 25 shots the whole day. Granted hunter numbers are not what they used to be, but something else has also changed. The deer herd is not anywhere near what it used to be in this area. Hunting 2 or 3 days without seeing a tail can be discouraging. Lots of bears, there were a couple regularly being seen hanging around town.


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i've hunted 4A since 1973 back in the coves in east/west providence twp, some in clearville, chaneysville areas and brush creek over in fulton. mostly public land but used to be allowed on a couple of nice chunks of private river bottom. i remember the motels in breezewood would be booked for the first week a year in advance. my first year i was on top of the coldest damn mountain overlooking wells tannery and saw probably over a hundred deer, all does. first day you would count hundreds of shots and that was buck only. we hung a lot of deer on the pole from 65-2000. i remember the year after the first combined season, you could see the difference. has been getting steadily worse since. on the plus side, i've taken my best bucks in the past 15 years and now when i see a lone deer back in the thicks, its a good chance its a buck. usually a scrap rack, but at least a buck. problem i have anymore is getting a deer back to the truck from the places i hunt. i hunted some spots this year where i said that it had to be a really nice buck for me to shoot it. deer camps have dried up, including mine. just me and my boys this year and they only hunted the first two days. they saw one deer between them. i tried to like archery hunting but it just doesn't do it for me. i will be wandering around somewhere down there in a few weeks with my TC and maybe i'll get lucky. but late season you have to be really, really lucky to get one back on the mountain. hell all i usually see are chickadees. i hope we have a lot of snow cover this winter so i can do some serious scouting back in the thicks and see where the deer are moving. i see some nice rubs and scrapes back in there so i know they are there, just not a lot anymore.

for public land in 4a they need to stop doe hunting for a few years. but with this cwd thing, the pgc is going in the opposite direction. and the dcnr would never allow it either.


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Originally Posted by battue


Not all that adverse to the bow crew...but my way would be to pick your weapon...You either hunt bow or rifle...but not both. Crossbow???? Well it used to be one had to have a Dr's excuse, but the liers on both sides made the GC give in.. Now half the "bow" hunters are really crossbow hunters...What a joke....
.


Have you ever hunted with, or even shot a crossbow? After almost three seasons with one, I can assure you there’s no magic in one. While they are decidedly easier to shoot accurately, there’s no ballistic edge to them, and no range advantage over compounds. Don’t fall for the marketing hype showing them fired from a benchrest at distant targets.The high arc and susceptibility to wind deflection and contact with brush remain, as does the need to wait for a broadside shot and avoid heavy bones in most cases. They’re also noisy, and if anyone ever gets a second shot with one, it’d be a miracle. Check the kill figures from the PGC before you decide on how they’re hurting your hunting.

I talked with a “Professional Bowhunter” from Kentucky once (which apparently meant he paid a fee, and got a wallet card) who was all up in arms about his state allowing rifle hunting during the rut. Said it was going to ruin deer hunting in KY. That was 20 years ago, and KY has a reputation for trophy bucks that rivals some of the better-know states. In reality, he was just being selfish and wanting it all his way, typical of people who hunt or fish one way, and would like to exclude others from access to the land or water they use.

One thing I have noticed on the small public parcel I hunt here is that most hunters put in a few hours in the morning, and then leave. I hunt about a mile back, and when I come out around noon, the parking lot is mostly or entirely empty. A few days into the season I may have the whole 600 plus acres to myself. Same thing goes during the archery season, except there are far fewer hunters to begin with. Not going to kill many deer hunting that way. I put in 12 half-days with my xbow before I killed a small buck, and only saw three other deer total, one of which offered a poor shot, which I declined. Saw some deer on the rifle opener, including three bucks, but had no shot. Been back about 5 times since, and haven’t seen a hair. I strongly suspect they’ve gone to heavy cover, and/or private land, and also become nocturnal, so if I really want more deer, I believe I’m gonna have to hit the bushes instead of sitting and waiting for one to come by.


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Originally Posted by Nathan13
Originally Posted by shaman
Originally Posted by Mach3
15 guys. 2 dead baldies.

By far our worst year ever.

How did everyone else do?

Did Covid kill the population?

OR

Is it because the seasons are too close together with the last week of archery followed by bear season without giving the deer time to relax with nobody stomping through the woods?

Very frustrating 2 weeks of rifle.

The only deer we saw were a few laying in very thick brush next to the road.




That sounds sad. I've only hunted PA once in '99, but even back then folks were talking about how good it was and how bad it sucked.

Us? We had our best year ever. 5 of us brought 8 to the pole. 3 were nice 8 point bucks. I'm in Zone 1 in KY.

You problem is not COVID. It isn't seasons running together. We have Archery from Sept thru to January, and it doesn't change the November rifle hunt a bit.

The problems in PA as I see it are:

1) Long-standing mismanagement.
2) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.

There is a sweet spot in the life of forests that favor whitetails. For a lot of PA, that sweet spot has gone. There just isn't enough browse to support deer.

Here in KY, we had the Feds come in and pay farmers to permanently cease tobacco cultivation. Those that took the money either let their land go fallow or converted to beef production. All those empty farms and empty land have been a major boon to whitetails. We're now allowed as many antlerless deer as we want. It's a golden time to be a whitetail hunter in northern KY.

That's not to say this is forever. I hunted other patches of KY where they were having your bad luck. It all boiled down to the same things:

1) Past over-hunting
2) Mismanagement by the state
3) Over browsing and lack of good habitat.



You've hunted here once. There is no problem. You have no idea what your talking about.
This right here he doesn't have a clue

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Originally Posted by Nathan13
I hope most people reading this arent believing a few, crying about the good old days. The areas of pa I hunt are as diverse in types of habitat that you will find. From 2a to 2c to 2d you will find just about every type of habitat that this state has to offer, they all have one thing in common. Tons of deer. People i talk to in every part of the state who know how to hunt also say the same. I actually think it's a shame that hunters are limited to 3 antler less tags unless they find a dmap zone. The deer are there for the taking and they need shot to preserve what's left of the habitat. And yes, I hunt state forest, gamelands and private. Matter of fact my land and almost all of my neighbors is open to anyone who asks...... Sorry if the stump you sat on 200 yards from the car doesn't produce like it did 40 years ago. .....ok , flame away!


No flames from here....Pa has more than a few great areas to hunt Deer, some of which are on GL...some on National and State Forests....but for the most part private has become locked up. The GC makes some mistakes, but some of the GL have been manipulated into excellent habitats with.food plots and timber cutting....they hold some big Deer..The GC deserves recognition when deserved and some of those GL are huge....not rare to be 5,000 acres plus...most of which don’t see a hunters footprint....Pa Bucks are getting more impressive each year. We have no shortage of great areas....and getting away from others is easy if one can move off the road a quarter mile...and lately that isn’t usually necessary because Pa is no longer made up of dedicated rifle hunters...Many dedicated bow hunters, but not so much with the rifles.

A mistake the GC does make is limiting access to much of the back country....some of that country is rugged and isolated....takes a tough person to get one out from 2 plus miles back in...and Pa hunters age average is going the wrong way.

Shaman: Kentucky is a great Deer hunting State..but you are mostly guessing and guessing wrong when it comes to Pa. Pa has more of a hunter problem than a Deer habitat problem. There are many places that will put your little oasis to shame...and it won’t sound like the war zone you often describe when the season opens. Thanks, but I’ll take Pa before your individual particularly described version of Deer hunting.

Which may change with CWD....more I read about it, the more I’m coming to understand how serious it is. In that it hits the 4 plus year old Deer the hardest. You will have few big Bucks if the mature ones are dying predominantly from disease before you can shoot them.


Last edited by battue; 12/18/20.

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Originally Posted by battue
[

Shaman: Kentucky is a great Deer hunting State..but you are mostly guessing and guessing wrong when it comes to Pa. Pa has more of a hunter problem than a Deer habitat problem.




I will defer to your opinion, sir.

It's just that for the better part of 20 years I heard PA guys gripe about how good it used to be and how bad it was now. A lot of fellows I knew and some of them on here just gave up on PA.

One of the things folks complained loudest about was how the deer had completely eaten the lower browse. From standing, you could hardly see 20 yards, but if you knelt down, you could see forever. I saw some of that while hunting near East Brady.

I'm perfectly happy to retract my statements.


You've piqued my curiosity: what do you see as the problems with hunters contributing to this.


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Pappy348,

You make some valid points re the Crossbow...I’ll make this one...I know people who have bought them...stuck a “scope” on them..since when did scopes become part of archery...Answer...when crossbows became the next big archery thing...

Quickly sighted them in and were out shooting Deer the next day. All that other stuff....while true has nothing to do with how easy it is to become proficient compared to other forms of archery....

A good archer has to put in the time to become skilled... you buy skill with the crossbow..


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Originally Posted by shaman
Originally Posted by battue
[

Shaman: Kentucky is a great Deer hunting State..but you are mostly guessing and guessing wrong when it comes to Pa. Pa has more of a hunter problem than a Deer habitat problem.




I will defer to your opinion, sir.

It's just that for the better part of 20 years I heard PA guys gripe about how good it used to be and how bad it was now. A lot of fellows I knew and some of them on here just gave up on PA.

One of the things folks complained loudest about was how the deer had completely eaten the lower browse. From standing, you could hardly see 20 yards, but if you knelt down, you could see forever. I saw some of that while hunting near East Brady.

I'm perfectly happy to retract my statements.


You've piqued my curiosity: what do you see as the problems with hunters contributing to this.





Thank you...

We all have our different perspective, based on where we hunt....some valid and some not. If I have a problem it would be with most Pa hunters.... in from what I have observed over the past decade at least...is a trend they are not all that enthusiastic about the actual hunting...shooting yes....hunting? Not so much.

As mentioned, Pa has lost its Deer hunting tradition.. perhaps you would have had to live it to understand what that means. Old boys, now gone that took a train to camp and had a farmer haul them over the mountain to it. Then eventually cut their own road over that mountain and hauled themselves..same guys took two weeks and hunted out of tents until they could get a decent camp built over the summers.

Most Pa today hunters fall far short in their dedication to the actual hunt..


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I'm not trying to argue, just understand.

So you're speculating the OP and his party just doesn't have the right stuff?


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Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

Whose sockpuppet are you?

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Originally Posted by shaman
I'm not trying to argue, just understand.

So you're speculating the OP and his party just doesn't have the right stuff?




You could make that implication...but again it would have its flaws....

We are discussing our overall varying thoughts on the current Pa Deer hunting situation...I would be the last one to accuse them individually of not being "hunters." Perhaps you should not speculate so much yourself????

Last edited by battue; 12/18/20.

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Originally Posted by battue




Most Pa today hunters fall far short in their dedication to the actual hunt..




Most hunters in every state. But they'll still bitch about not seeing any deer.


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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

Whose sockpuppet are you?


So you're pissy that he called you out?


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by shaman
I'm not trying to argue, just understand.

So you're speculating the OP and his party just doesn't have the right stuff?




You could make that implication...but again it would have its flaws....

We are discussing our overall varying thoughts on the current Pa Deer hunting situation...I would be the last one to accuse them individually of not being "hunters." Perhaps you should not speculate so much yourself????



I'll just go sit in the back and watch then. I wish y'all the best.


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Seems like the essence is pretty much over....now that the high and mighty political guru's have decided to shiit in eachothers pot over an election that most of us think in Pa was a stolen farce....

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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

Whose sockpuppet are you?


So you're pissy that he called you out?

No. I'm actually pissy because he and Nathan are too stupid to realize the 51% of Pennsylvanians who put people like Wolf in aren't found in the deer woods but instead in the cities. I'm also pissy because Trump has already told knobs like those two that he won PA big but was cheated out of it. I'm also pissy because I see this guy showed up at the same time our former most prolific poster's sockpuppet was banned and I'm waiting to see if this one starts talking about black cock and railing against Yankees. But you can think what you want. Your state is bluer than mine. wink

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It's just that for the better part of 20 years I heard PA guys gripe about how good it used to be and how bad it was now. A lot of fellows I knew and some of them on here just gave up on PA


I have over 60 years of PA hunting behind me, through lean times and good times for deer. Can't recall a season when some weren't bawling about a lack of deer, or the Game Commission? Not much has changed in either of those categories.

My opinion, these are the best times I can recall for hunting deer. Many areas I hunted decades ago that held few deer, are now much better in that regard. Nicer bucks and more of them, than at any time in my experiences. Are there still areas with few deer? Yep. Many suburban areas now hold more deer, than I once saw hunting in rural north central PA 40 years ago.

There are no easy solutions for those unhappy with their deer hunting opportunities, other than going where the deer are? Got lucky over the years. Deer eventually came to where I wanted to hunt, no longer an issue with "no deer".The past 20 years have become my "good old days", sorry if that hasn't worked out for everyone.


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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

Whose sockpuppet are you?


So you're pissy that he called you out?

No. I'm actually pissy because he and Nathan are too stupid to realize the 51% of Pennsylvanians who put people like Wolf in aren't found in the deer woods but instead in the cities. I'm also pissy because Trump has already told knobs like those two that he won PA big but was cheated out of it. I'm also pissy because I see this guy showed up at the same time our former most prolific poster's sockpuppet was banned and I'm waiting to see if this one starts talking about black cock and railing against Yankees. But you can think what you want. Your state is bluer than mine. wink

Somehow I'm too dumb to realize that the election was stolen because most of the Hicks in my state are shiiity deer hunters? That's an interesting correlation

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Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.

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Originally Posted by battue
Pappy348,

You make some valid points re the Crossbow...I’ll make this one...I know people who have bought them...stuck a “scope” on them..since when did scopes become part of archery...Answer...when crossbows became the next big archery thing...

Quickly sighted them in and were out shooting Deer the next day. All that other stuff....while true has nothing to do with how easy it is to become proficient compared to other forms of archery....

A good archer has to put in the time to become skilled... you buy skill with the crossbow..


Sorry, but I don’t see anything wrong with any of that. I’ve tried various other sights, and found that a scope’s main advantage is the ability to see stuff in the path of the arrow. Regardless which sights are used, it’s still harder to hit with than a rifle, requiring better follow-through, and all the limitations associated with arrows still apply. My take is that difficulty of getting into range, generally 40 yards max give or take a bit, is sufficient challenge to overcome. Try hunting with one yourself sometime and see just how “easy” it is to kill deer.

Your comments on skill remind me of a couple of old-fart non-hunters that tried to lecture me fifty years ago on how scopes on hunting rifles weren’t necessary. Truth was, neither of them hunted or knew anything about guns except what they learned in WWII, so their opinions were unqualified gas, just two old guys getting all puffed up about something they knew exactly zip about. Got no time for that crap.

When you can show evidence that crossbows, or long archery seasons have had a negative effect on deer populations, trot it out, otherwise you’re just speculating.


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Originally Posted by Nathan13
Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.


Pretty much all of that applies to me these days to some extent; I know it, and ain’t complaining. Age is the main reason. I used to spend the whole day in the woods, but never do now, partly because I can go anytime I want, so don’t have to crowd my hunting into a few days like before. I’ve mostly been sticking to the same part of my WMA because I’ve done well there in the past, and few other hunters come back there. Need to get out of my comfort zone a bit while I still can.


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Odd that you have to make up what I didn't say to have anything to stand on.... Didn't say it had a negative effect, I did say crossbows are easier to use than regular bows or compound bows...I did say that the archery crew is given preferential treatment...I did say, why should they always get to hunt the rut? Why should they have a season that is essentially twice as long? More power to them, they pulled the strings to make it happen...I'm all for them...How about this year they get the rut and long season....next year the rifle guys get it...See what happens then.. Seem like you would be alright with putting a little more challenge into your bowhunting.

I did say the GC is all for the silent killers...from a PR standpoint.. And I will now say, their always getting the first chance, at the best Bucks has a negative effect on what is available to the rifle hunters....You are good with that....I'm not....

You can have your opinion and I have mine, but you will have more credibility if you don't make up what I said...I may be an old fart stuck in my ways, which is funny on a couple points.. I'm up there, put stuck in my ways? Not much......But I'll tell you this....I still can tell Bullshiit when I see it....

Got to go and get some ammo...see what you can make up while I'm gone... grin

Last edited by battue; 12/18/20.

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Originally Posted by Pappy348
Originally Posted by Nathan13
Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.


Pretty much all of that applies to me these days to some extent; I know it, and ain’t complaining. Age is the main reason. I used to spend the whole day in the woods, but never do now, partly because I can go anytime I want, so don’t have to crowd my hunting into a few days like before. I’ve mostly been sticking to the same part of my WMA because I’ve done well there in the past, and few other hunters come back there. Need to get out of my comfort zone a bit while I still can.


I can respect that.

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I may have incorrectly inferred that you said that archery hunting was having a negative impact on how many deer there are. Sorry.

But, you are clearly biased against crossbows, without any personal experience using one. Having used recurves, compounds, and crossbows myself, I can say that shooting them is easier, but the skill the skill required to get into position for a shot is the same, and that can’t be “bought”, anymore than buying a long-range rifle setup makes one a sniper.

I don’t think archers get preferential treatment, but they do benefit from the fact that archery hunting has far less impact on game populations that rifle hunting, and that means that longer seasons can be allowed, maximizing hunting opportunities (and license sales). The seasons were the same long before archery of any sort was popular, so the decision of when to open rifle hunting is likely a game management decision, right or wrong, not a gift to bowhunters. VA opens their ML season, essentially just two more weeks of rifle season, at the beginning of November with no ill effects, so PA could as well I think.

If you want first crack at all the bucks, spend a few buck on a crossbow or compound, and get out there. I bought mine because I was seeing lots of deer while squirrel hunting, and damn few during rifle or ML deer season. Now I have a chance to hunt deer while their movements are natural, not after they’ve been shuffled all over by hunters, and while the weather is good. The opportunity is there for you if you want it, and you won’t need to tilt windmills trying to get the PGC to change how they manage things.

Or you can just piss and moan about how unfair it all is, which might just be your favorite “sport”.😜


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I get closer and closer to a crossbow purchase every year

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I'm still just watching, but. . .

Ohio has had a very liberal crossbow policy for 35 years; crossbows have been legal the same as all other forms of archer. I have not heard where any Buckeyes are squealing about it wrecking the Modern Weapons Season.

Just saying.


I've got a crossbow. I bought one to find out what the hoo-haw was. It worked about as well as a vertical bow-- out to about 40 yards or so. I found it clunky-- no great advantage. I'm just saying. PA deer may be more susceptible to them. I wouldn't know.


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Originally Posted by moosemike
I get closer and closer to a crossbow purchase every year


You should it's the best time to be out there if you want to hunt deer in their natural patterns. I can tell you from Halloween until the first week of December the deer movement is at it's highest due to the rut. I see bucks on my trail cameras that I have never seen and they only stay around here for a few short weeks and they are gone.


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Originally Posted by Ken_L
Originally Posted by moosemike
I get closer and closer to a crossbow purchase every year


You should it's the best time to be out there if you want to hunt deer in their natural patterns. I can tell you from Halloween until the first week of December the deer movement is at it's highest due to the rut. I see bucks on my trail cameras that I have never seen and they only stay around here for a few short weeks and they are gone.

I know that. I was an archer for more than 20 years before I gave it up. My trouble is I don't like being in trees. I fell out of one.

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Stopped and decided to check in. “May” you say...
that’s funny....Don’t need you to tell me what you think I don’t know about crossbows...I’m around more than a few that use them. One especially who couldn’t come close to being good with a compound, but picked up a crossbow and started killing.

Once again nothing more than a difference of views. If I want to use a crossbow or compound, I know how the game is played..and you telling me the whys of it is nothing new or revealing.

Mostly you do it in order to go out in the nicer weather and pass the day more comfortable. Which are good reasons.

However, for the most part the only reason our local Deer in rifle season tend to be out of sync with their normal routine, is because the GC lets the bow hunters mess with them for three weeks prior to rifle.

And now the Bear hunters also.

In the Big Wood, most of you don’t get far enough in to have them even know the hunting season is in.

Hey, it’s all about you.....enjoy your compound and hunting opportunity....but you are far from the only one that gets it😉





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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Ken_L
Originally Posted by moosemike
I get closer and closer to a crossbow purchase every year


You should it's the best time to be out there if you want to hunt deer in their natural patterns. I can tell you from Halloween until the first week of December the deer movement is at it's highest due to the rut. I see bucks on my trail cameras that I have never seen and they only stay around here for a few short weeks and they are gone.

I know that. I was an archer for more than 20 years before I gave it up. My trouble is I don't like being in trees. I fell out of one.

A guy I hunt with hunts from the ground with his crossbow and he gets deer quite a bit. I go up 17' since it's too thick to see anything from the ground where I hunt.


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Originally Posted by shaman
I'm still just watching, but. . .

Ohio has had a very liberal crossbow policy for 35 years; crossbows have been legal the same as all other forms of archer. I have not heard where any Buckeyes are squealing about it wrecking the Modern Weapons Season.

Just saying.


I've got a crossbow. I bought one to find out what the hoo-haw was. It worked about as well as a vertical bow-- out to about 40 yards or so. I found it clunky-- no great advantage. I'm just saying. PA deer may be more susceptible to them. I wouldn't know.


Until the last few years Ohio didn’t allow modern weapons for Deer hunting.... shotguns, if you want to consider those modern....and today only straight walled cases.


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The percentage of bucks taken in archery season continues to increase each year. Longer seasons, or the inclusion of crossbows, take your pick as to which is the greater influence? For my money, full inclusion of cross bows is the primary reason for that increase.

Biggest advantage of using a cross bow over any other sort of archery tackle, is the ease of "mastery". Factor in the amount of time needed to become competent with a vertical bow, including the inherent muscle memory that comes with practice and there's no comparison in the amount of time required to master a cross bow. Have seen guys unpack a new cross bow at our archery range and start consistently hitting the bull in less than a half hou,r from the time they let loose the first bolt. Fine with me, if that's what they're into?.

Have no use for a cross bow. If my shoulder is agreeable and I can shoot my compound well enough to suit me, I bow hunt. If not, then I wait for rifle season.

As for the rut, the past two PA rifle seasons I've witnessed more than a little rut activity. Matter of fact, over 30 years ago I killed a buck on opening day of rifle, that was trailing a doe in my woods. Hope his last sniff made his day, because moments after he took it, he was dead on the ground.


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Damn another old fart that doesn’t know shiit about crossbows....place is going to be overrun with them if they let them carry on.

If you don’t use them...WTH would you know??? Same old Campfire weak comeback....when some are defending a weak position. 😀


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Originally Posted by battue
Damn another old fart that doesn’t know shiit about crossbows....place is going to be overrun with them if they let them carry on.

If you don’t use them...WTH would you know??? Same old Campfire weak comeback....when some are defending a weak position. 😀



I'm curious to know, what do you think of deer numbers in your area. Not who gets to hunt first, or how long? Purely, the state of the herd. I don't care about the card game in 1977 the night before buck day where uncle Al won a hand with 4,7's and the camp killed 4 , 6 pointers the next day before going to the bar at 11 am......I'm talking about deer on the landscape, enough? Too many? Not enough?

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Well fellers, the opportunity is there for you, take it or leave it, but there’s nothing unfair or preferential about it since you can play if you want to. I buy extra bow tags and antlerless tags so I can hunt deer here anytime from the opening of bow season until December 31 with whatever implement is legal, and then for a few more days in January. Been thinking about getting another compound as well for a little variety, probably in a lighter weight to accommodate my old bones.

Dube, the rut runs here into our rifle season, but the presence of a lot of hunters on public land means that the activity goes on at night. When I hunted private land during the rifle season West of here, the bucks ran with the does, not constantly for their lives. My son and his son hunt a small farm in VA a few miles from here, and the chase continues there in daylight until about the end of November. Now it’s all about food.


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I think crossbows are a huge advantage but nothing close to a firearm. I don’t shoot over 30 yards but I can use a shooting rest and don’t need to stand. I used a compound for many years and standing up, pulling the arrow back and holding at full draw make it much harder.


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You got it...
For some reason we didn't see the numbers we saw in the past....Last year it wasn't rare to see 15-20 a day and we also took and bumped a couple nice Bucks. Which was the usual...This year I saw around a total of 40 Deer....hunting moving and sitting....and hunted every day but 2. Coyotes have been seen more often this year...so that may be an issue.

This year the Bucks were few....Bud had a couple decent ones on camera and the guy with the crossbow shot one....This has nothing to do with making any point, but he didn't find him, unfortunately it happens....He later shot a small 7 in rifle season. The others saw some small fork horns...I bounced out an OK Buck that I would have shot, but he beat me out....but glad I didn't....he should be much better if he makes it till next season..

The final answer for my feeling on the State of the herd on that 1200 acres, is we are well within what it can feed in winter....If we have any issue at all it would be our Buck to Doe ratio is way of of kilter...I say that not because of what I know, but what the guy who owns the place knows...He essentially lives there....spends part of his day in the morning having coffee and reading the paper in his vehicle at different points...Then he does pretty much the same in the evening....He likes to know what he has on his place..and says for some reason this year the Bucks went away close to when rifle season opened. Why?????

As far as total numbers...Many places have more and many less....from my view we are OK. But if I don't see the Bucks show up next year, I'll be hunting someplace else.....

Last edited by battue; 12/18/20.

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Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
You live near Amaranth?


No. I live in Franklin County.

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Originally Posted by Nathan13
Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.



I knew this thread would be ruined by one the huntingpa chest beaters. Bring your asses to 4A , and give it a try next yr if you want to voice an opinion on the hunting. There are literally half (if that) the deer there used to be HERE. Anyone that can't see that don't know his azz from a hole in the ground.Not wherever you do your great white hunting, but HERE in 4A. WTF do you think you are anyhow? Your opinion is just that, so don't think it carries anymore weight than anyone elses.

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How many like Nathan remember the good years?

I was just a kid during the really good years.

Dad would only shoot a nice buck (comparatively) on the first day.
Or any of the first week, untill Saturday. He could find and shoot a buck
Pretty much any day he wanted. By the time I turned 12, the buck/doe ratio
had gotten screwed up. We still had a bunch of deer. But bucks were harder
to come by. A point restriction 4 out of 5 years at that time would have produced
Some dandy results.

I have hunted Somerset to Franklin counties, Cambria and Blair.
I have never, ever seen a browse line in my Pa hunting.
Other states, especially some big woods in WV yes, not here.
To be fair, my hunting hasn't been in the all woodland mountaintop
areas. So, maybe the Game Lands were different.

Thing is, what happens one place isn't truth.
It is the condition there.

Here in Somerset and Bedford, reducing the doe population maybe wasn't
a terrible idea. But it's went way too far.

Hell, when I was a kid, our county had a lot of deer.
Numbers were managed by doe hunting.
We would get 6-8k licenses per year.
Single tag, kill a buck you don't even doe hunt.

Now we have, maybe, 25% of the deer we used to.
And, guessing by county, we are giving out 15k tags.
Each one a potential deer killed.


This thread like so many is limited by those who aren't intelligent enough
to absorb information, process and understand it.

There are threads where I've been blasted for views on cartridges, bullets,
all kind of stuff. Thing is, we have different experiences, and expectations.

Last year, I had about 4 hours into the season and shot the nicest buck of my life.
He was running with about a dozen does.

A decent group with a nice buck, by any times standards here.

I didn't come on here bragging. Showing the buck, saying how great
our management was. How many does came by and that there were scads
of deer, if you were just as good a hunter as I am.

Because I know that's not the universal truth.


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One more thing.

There are trophy hunters. Guys who will put out
a lot of time and effort to seek out a big buck.

Good for them, if they do it right.

Thing is, a lot of guys can't, won't, just don't want to spend the time
to kill a bragging buck.


Is that wrong?

Best buck I ever killed last year.
I watched it walk by toward my 16 year old daughter.
The does spooked, and it came running back.
So I shot it. Big deal. Very disappointed.
I still imagine seeing her right after she put him down.


Some of the best fun I have ever had hunting was in killing does
with the flintlock.

And our reduced numbers have had a major effect on the hunting I
loved. So, if you like killing a buck to brag, if antlers are your 1 thing.
If you love that the bucks have gotten bigger (they have) good for you.
I'm happy for you.

But, there is a long established culture of hunters who enjoyed hunting
as a family or group. Actually helping each other, happy with any game
they got and sharing the excitement of success.


Tell me that's wrong.


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Absolutely nothing wrong...well said...

I've posted this before and in fact just sent it to another via PM...Notice this isn't ideal Deer habitat....There are not Deer running around in any great numbers...This is not Deer hunting for those who are unfortunately not up to it....This has some obvious adds....But this is almost Pa Deer hunting at its finest....even if they are bow hunters... laugh


I watch it more than once during the year when the mood strikes....without question these boys would fit in with those old timers....and hunters from any time....




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Originally Posted by battue
Odd that you have to make up what I didn't say to have anything to stand on.... Didn't say it had a negative effect, I did say crossbows are easier to use than regular bows or compound bows...I did say that the archery crew is given preferential treatment...I did say, why should they always get to hunt the rut? Why should they have a season that is essentially twice as long? More power to them, they pulled the strings to make it happen...I'm all for them...How about this year they get the rut and long season....next year the rifle guys get it...See what happens then.. Seem like you would be alright with putting a little more challenge into your bowhunting.

I did say the GC is all for the silent killers...from a PR standpoint.. And I will now say, their always getting the first chance, at the best Bucks has a negative effect on what is available to the rifle hunters....You are good with that....I'm not....

You can have your opinion and I have mine, but you will have more credibility if you don't make up what I said...I may be an old fart stuck in my ways, which is funny on a couple points.. I'm up there, put stuck in my ways? Not much......But I'll tell you this....I still can tell Bullshiit when I see it....

Got to go and get some ammo...see what you can make up while I'm gone... grin



I have said that since they started allowing crossbows for hunting.

While I don't have a problem with hunters using xbows in general: ABSOLUTELY NO SCOPES allowed. It's basically cheating. Open sights only.

I have never heard of anyone missing with a scoped crossbow.

Even though I archery hunt every year, I definitely agree that the PGC caters to the bowhunters.

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Originally Posted by Mach3
Originally Posted by battue
Odd that you have to make up what I didn't say to have anything to stand on.... Didn't say it had a negative effect, I did say crossbows are easier to use than regular bows or compound bows...I did say that the archery crew is given preferential treatment...I did say, why should they always get to hunt the rut? Why should they have a season that is essentially twice as long? More power to them, they pulled the strings to make it happen...I'm all for them...How about this year they get the rut and long season....next year the rifle guys get it...See what happens then.. Seem like you would be alright with putting a little more challenge into your bowhunting.

I did say the GC is all for the silent killers...from a PR standpoint.. And I will now say, their always getting the first chance, at the best Bucks has a negative effect on what is available to the rifle hunters....You are good with that....I'm not....

You can have your opinion and I have mine, but you will have more credibility if you don't make up what I said...I may be an old fart stuck in my ways, which is funny on a couple points.. I'm up there, put stuck in my ways? Not much......But I'll tell you this....I still can tell Bullshiit when I see it....

Got to go and get some ammo...see what you can make up while I'm gone... grin



I have said that since they started allowing crossbows for hunting.

While I don't have a problem with hunters using xbows in general: ABSOLUTELY NO SCOPES allowed. It's basically cheating. Open sights only.

I have never heard of anyone missing with a scoped crossbow.

Even though I archery hunt every year, I definitely agree that the PGC caters to the bowhunters.
I don't know that scopes are that big of an advantage at typical, effective crossbow ranges. I know they aren't on a rifle or slug gun at those distances {sub 40 yards}. And anybody that needs hours and hours of practice to consistently sink arrows into a 4" bull at 30 yards with a modern compound, sights, release aid, 80% letoff, is an uncoordinated schmuck that should probably stay the fuuck out of treestands anyway.

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Many Areas out East are sensitive to pressure.

We have a place here in Kansas that If I do a lot of hunting / work in the woods any given year we see maybe 5 deer a day on that place.
IF we stay off the place, and walk into it a way that the deer can’t detect - we see 12 to 20 deer a Morning / Evening.

A key to that was NOT driving down a gravel road to the cabin which is almost a mile long - if you are hunting and someone drives down that road it pisses you off.
Apparently the deer and yotes know it too... so they take off.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by MichieD
Do you mean people that put Wolf and Biden into office aren't bright enough to find deer?

Whose sockpuppet are you?


So you're pissy that he called you out?

No. I'm actually pissy because he and Nathan are too stupid to realize the 51% of Pennsylvanians who put people like Wolf in aren't found in the deer woods but instead in the cities. I'm also pissy because Trump has already told knobs like those two that he won PA big but was cheated out of it. I'm also pissy because I see this guy showed up at the same time our former most prolific poster's sockpuppet was banned and I'm waiting to see if this one starts talking about black cock and railing against Yankees. But you can think what you want. Your state is bluer than mine. wink

Lmao


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According to some in WV the arrow throwers don’t get any preferential treatment...so do any think they would/would not complain if their early October/November season was eliminated and they had to hunt the same time the rifle people did..

My vote is you could hear the cry all the way up in Pa....😢😀

Second question: Why do archery seasons start so early and last so long? Original answer was archery license sales were a small part of total sales in a State....Now that those numbers have changed rather significantly upward....should some adjustments be made?



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Pa archery license sales from 2009 till 2019....those numbers pale in comparison to when Pa gave a preferential early archery season. Back in the day when Fred Bear traditional bows were the norm. 😉

Bow hunting went thru the roof when compounds came on the scene...and has been growing yearly since..

Why? Because compounds were easier to master compared to traditional bows...same applies to crossbows..



Resident Archery 274,583 277,602 285,549 297,031 312,045 319,850 326,870 327,674 324,877 320,468 325,461
Nonresident Archery 11,814 11,812 12,243 12,283 12,996 13,151 13,604 13.963 14,723 15,264 16,386

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And yet, if I want a chance at a buck with blackpowder,
I have to use a flintlock or hunt rifle season.
Hell until about 2004 we had to use roundballs.

Again, this is disputed, but in my experience they are
poor killers. Not always quick to kill, and often leave poor trails.
Numerous DRT, but also have had a number that we would have never even
found the blood without snow.

Meanwhile, archery had compounds that evolved from 100 some fps to
300 fps. All kind of sights, releases, arrow tech, expanding broadheads...
The only thing denied was pods, and devices that held the bow at
full draw and released with a trigger. In effect, a crossbow conversion.

I'm not opposed to archery in general.


I have a beef with archers.
Not every single one, but as a group they are the worst at trespassing
and illegal kills. Along with turkey hunters, but often it the same people.
Even in gun season, if I catch a trespasses, it's usually
someone that bow hunts.


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Originally Posted by grovey
Originally Posted by Nathan13
Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.



I knew this thread would be ruined by one the huntingpa chest beaters. Bring your asses to 4A , and give it a try next yr if you want to voice an opinion on the hunting. There are literally half (if that) the deer there used to be HERE. Anyone that can't see that don't know his azz from a hole in the ground.Not wherever you do your great white hunting, but HERE in 4A. WTF do you think you are anyhow? Your opinion is just that, so don't think it carries anymore weight than anyone elses.



There you have it. Half of the deer equals no deer? There's a magic boundary that keeps you limited to hunting inside of zone 4a? I'm sure id run out of tags in 4a too. Pretty sure we just processed a few does from 4a in my friends shop last week. They must have been the last ones in the whole zone.....as far as huntingpa, I can't stand those morons more than any other sane person can.

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I have a beef with archers.
Not every single one, but as a group they are the worst at trespassing
and illegal kills. Along with turkey hunters, but often it the same people.
Even in gun season, if I catch a trespasses, it's usually
someone that bow hunts


I agree with this 100 percent

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Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
And yet, if I want a chance at a buck with blackpowder,
I have to use a flintlock or hunt rifle season.
Hell until about 2004 we had to use roundballs.

Again, this is disputed, but in my experience they are
poor killers. Not always quick to kill, and often leave poor trails.
Numerous DRT, but also have had a number that we would have never even
found the blood without snow.



The archers have your answer....you need a lobbyist from the Black Powder industry..someone to place big adds in the magazine, someone to make some donations to GC habitat development...someone to tickle the back pocket of the honorable colleagues in Harrisburg..

That’s how the archery crowd put their rules in.

By the way, I donate every year to the GC and buy a archery tag I don’t use. Maybe will someday, but will freely admit the GC is KMA.

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Archery gains were made by members of PA-based hunting orgs, like PSAA and UBP, showing up year after year and lobbying in person for longer seasons.

The "money lobby" people were from the cross bow industry, Professional reps showing up well prepared for a few years and pushing for full cross bow inclusion. That included a few well known outdoor writers, as well. I know this from actually being there in person and observing this over many years.


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Originally Posted by dubePA
Archery gains were made by members of PA-based hunting orgs, like PSAA and UBP, showing up year after year and lobbying in person for longer seasons.

The "money lobby" people were from the cross bow industry, Professional reps showing up well prepared for a few years and pushing for full cross bow inclusion. That included a few well known outdoor writers, as well. I know this from actually being there in person and observing this over many years.




"Say it ain't so, Joe."

(Think they may have also did a little "wine and dining" of the honorable colleagues?)

Nothing preferential there...Na wink

Addition: And now it is the norm....now the archery tag numbers keep increasing....now the number of Bucks and Does killed by archers keep going up...But now, some will tell us it is insignificant with regards the Deer available to the rifle hunters....Like I said before...I know Bullshiit when I see it....

Resident hunting license sales in Pa 2019....860,000.....approximately 25%...just did the math....actually 37.7%....of which were archery tags......insignificant some would tell us...

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When you dig insignificance takes on a different meaning.

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Originally Posted by Nathan13
Originally Posted by grovey
Originally Posted by Nathan13
Here's the deal on pa deer hunting.

If you can't find any deer you fit into one of these categories:

-you're stubborn. You expect deer to be where they used to be or where you want them to be.

-you're not physically capable of getting out and getting after them where they are.

-Or youre just not as knowledgeable about deer and deer habitat as you think you are.


All of those things get compounded by age. Not knocking anyone . it's just the way it is. And as a post script. I don't archery hunt or participate in early muzzleloader, and I rarely get a chance to flintlock hunt anymore , simply because I'm out of tags. There are deer everywhere.



I knew this thread would be ruined by one the huntingpa chest beaters. Bring your asses to 4A , and give it a try next yr if you want to voice an opinion on the hunting. There are literally half (if that) the deer there used to be HERE. Anyone that can't see that don't know his azz from a hole in the ground.Not wherever you do your great white hunting, but HERE in 4A. WTF do you think you are anyhow? Your opinion is just that, so don't think it carries anymore weight than anyone elses.



There you have it. Half of the deer equals no deer? There's a magic boundary that keeps you limited to hunting inside of zone 4a? I'm sure id run out of tags in 4a too. Pretty sure we just processed a few does from 4a in my friends shop last week. They must have been the last ones in the whole zone.....as far as huntingpa, I can't stand those morons more than any other sane person can.


Fill your tags? You may, or you may not. Only way to know, or to make us believers is hunt 4A for a few yrs. So bring your smarmy ass on over and take the challenge. You'll never know how it is without trying. That's my point...
From my perspective PA deer hunting has sucked for some time. The pgc cashed in on the doe herd yrs ago, and they now sell 3 times as many doe tags as we have deer on the hoof. I also have my doubts that we have bigger bucks than we used to. The now closer buck doe ratio, antler restrictions, and longer archery seasons all contribute to more bigger bucks taken perhaps. I've seen big bucks around here all my life... Alt surely didn't make it happen here.... before he was run out of the state.

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You are casting a very wide net with those assumptions. One should endeavor to research and use facts not assumptions before drawing conclusions. Just saying. Good hunting.


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Spent an evening last night with a Bud and his "Bow Hunting" family....The Daughters, Sons and Sons Wives hunt....They are immersed in it and Whitetails...Have their own little piece of land that is a labor of love, and shoot some impressive Bucks off of it. When they go to camp, they sneak into it. Trucks pull in at a slow idle. No noise, make as little disturbance as possible. Close the door and sneak out to the stands in the morning.

DIY hunts out West...Shoot big Whitetails on an Illinois farm. Crossfit to stay in shape and they are. Dinner was Deer cooked on a Trager smoker and it was exceptional.

Learned about the Total Archery Challenge, hinge release, back pressure release...Their garage is like a small bow shop...hunting bows, target bows,

If I wanted to learn, I have what would practically be pro level teachers...Their enthusiasm is off the wall....

They clued me in on a place to find some interesting info on Deer movement...This would be one example...


https://www.deer.psu.edu/the-life-and-times-of-buck-8917/


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If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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Thanks they clued me in on it also....

Another thing,they make their own scrapes.....they start them and the Deer finish it....The cam videos of the Deer using them is more than interesting.....

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Ihunt with the archery season. I use a crossbow too. The reason is my eyes. I can't see clearly enough to use the sights on my compound. I really enjoy that time of the year in the woods. Be that as it may, I'm going to do more squirrel hunting than archery in the future. I've spent some long mornings and evenings without seeing deer. Not complaining, but I miss squirrel hunting, and I really like to eat them

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2F Warren County I own 57acres bordering ANF... Some camps were in but didn't seem like very many. I never drove the road to see how many other camps were in.

I killed an 8 in archery . my boy hit a 9 in archery and killed a doe in archery. My nephew killed a doe in archery.

One weird phenomenon. Every legal buck on my place disappeared Nov 16th. Im running 9 cameras on the land and I mean they vanished.

Dad hunted the same spot on ANF he killed his 10pt in 2019. Saw 1 buck in 3 and a half days of hunting.. 0 doe and 4 hunters.

One of my boys works alot and managed a few short hunts he saw a few does on the property.. 0 bucks

I shot a dmap doe right off the back edge of our place on ANF. I spent a lot of time with my nephew who's 14. We saw does. He never saw a buck im guessing his deer count in 4 days of rifle was around 18.

My other boy hunted about 5 or 6 days of rifle. He saw probably 40 or 50 deer. No bucks.

We did find a dead spike someone shot and left.

We also hunt 1b. Il killed a doe there.

And on the north side of 2f in Scandia we killed 4 does between 5 of us the last Friday. Lots of private land, I setup the shooters and walked around. Had deer running everywhere. 1 was a buck but the kid that saw it shot his buck 7pt the first week of rifle. But in that property its common to see 25 deer in a field at once in archery. It can handle some does coming out.

Total between all the areas we hunt we killed 9. But we hit 3 different areas in the county.

Not much shooting in rifle season. I think the majority of hunters tag out in archery. Guys don't walk much or still hunt much anymore either. I heard lots of reports of lots of guys sitting close to forestry roads. On 1 road we hunt we could see 4 guys from the road in lead than 3/8 of a mile.


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Originally Posted by battue
According to some in WV the arrow throwers don’t get any preferential treatment...so do any think they would/would not complain if their early October/November season was eliminated and they had to hunt the same time the rifle people did..

My vote is you could hear the cry all the way up in Pa....😢😀

Second question: Why do archery seasons start so early and last so long? Original answer was archery license sales were a small part of total sales in a State....Now that those numbers have changed rather significantly upward....should some adjustments be made?




Deer seasons are a management tool. Within the management plan, the goal is to provide as many recreation hours as possible consistent with achieving the management objectives. Your archery season is what, four times as long as the rifle season, yet they kill only a third of the deer harvested. That alone makes it obvious that archery in all its forms is much harder to be successful with than any form of gun hunting. If you eliminate the special season, archery will cease to be a practical harvest tool, and the archers, and their license dollars will go elsewhere. Are you willing to make up the difference?

The archery season is open to anyone that cares to participate, just like the rifle season, and the game belongs to everyone, not just one group. You apparently just want it all your way and fugg everyone else. Well guess what, you ain’t gonna get it, so enjoy your pity party.


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I have a beef with archers.
Not every single one, but as a group they are the worst at trespassing
and illegal kills. Along with turkey hunters, but often it the same people.
Even in gun season, if I catch a trespasses, it's usually
someone that bow hunts.


Old info but the farm I hunted in Adams County back in the 80s and 90s was divided by Marsh Creek. Small groups of drivers used to unload standers on one side, down by the covered bridge, then the drivers would start from Red Rock Road and push through (the farmhouse was on the other side of the creek. We caught them one time and made them climb a fence and leave through a pasture to one side. They kicked up a doe on their way out and opened up like D-Day right into that pasture full of Black Angus. Miracle that no cattle were hit.

Another time I was sitting in my stand near the creek, opening day no less, when some dickhead came waltzing along the bank. He ignored my whistle, so I climbed down and intercepted him. He claimed that he had the right to follow the creek, hunting along the way of course, but changed his tune when I told him I was going to call the sheriff and let him decide. Back he went, the way he came.

Then there was the guy who just stopped his car and popped a doe out in the field. We drove over and caught him about to drag it away. He said he just couldn’t help himself. He ran him off, dressed the deer, and called the warden.

Never caught any archers, or found any mystery stands, but someone did come in by crossing the creek and stole a ladder stand.

Now that the covered bridge is a tourist attraction of sorts, there’s a lot of parking there for trespassers’ convenience.


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If you could comprehend the article on archery hunting numbers and success,,,you would understand that archers every year are accounting for a larger percentage of the Deer kill.....Which obviously escapes you...Be that as it may, when does one make adjustments to your management plan...

As far as eliminating the special season....again you are making up as you go along....Bad habit, but we know how you work....Never said to eliminate it..did say that perhaps we could switch opportunities some time so that the rifle guys get the peak rut and nice weather..But then again you would have to take your bow out and sit on your stump in the cold perhaps...Poor boy....And many of those Deer that you get your "preferential" first chance at would be gone....Oh my, can't have that now can we..... laugh

Yes the game does belong to everyone....Which seems it would imply making sure all get an equal crack at it during the best hunting times......

And until now I have ignored one of your comments on doing it myself and seeing how easy it is....Already did that....two years in a row, and was successful both years...Wasn't that hard....In fact, sat in the tree, hardly expending any energy climbing hills and still hunting...Just sat there and when one eventually walked by shot it....Exciting for a moment, but not all that hard....

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Originally Posted by CBB
2F Warren County I own 57acres bordering ANF...

........... Im running 9 cameras on the land and I mean they vanished.



You sure you got it covered with only 9? laugh


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Everybody lobbies for this season and that. Once they get their season then they fight to have them lengthened. The only change I would campaign for is Semi Auto inclusion for big game

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I've never hunted Pennsylvania, but I did get my F150 serviced today. And just so happened to flip through a copy of Petersen's Hunting in the waiting room.

In an article was mentioned the 3 states with the most bucks harvested per square mile; Michigan, South Carolina AND Pennsylvania at 3.7, 3.6 and 3.3 respectively.

On the antlerless side, Pennsylvania hunters harvested 5.1 doe per square mile in 2018, second only to Delaware's 5.3. QDMA found that Pennsylvania hunters turned in the top overall harvest at 8.4 deer per square mile.

So, some folks, somewhere, are seein' & killin' deer in PA.

https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/...-management-rank-among-other-states.html

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They surely were out this evening in western 4A. I left Flintstone,MD a little after 4, and decided to take the scenic route home to look see with the snowfall. I took Black Valley rd over towards Chaneysville and wound thru some back rds to and thru Clearville winding up over at Crystal Springs at dark. I saw 70 - 80 deer on my trip. It was nice to see them getting a break.

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Originally Posted by grovey
They surely were out this evening in western 4A. I left Flintstone,MD a little after 4, and decided to take the scenic route home to look see with the snowfall. I took Black Valley rd over towards Chaneysville and wound thru some back rds to and thru Clearville winding up over at Crystal Springs at dark. I saw 70 - 80 deer on my trip. It was nice to see them getting a break.


now thats a nice ride. then continue on up through akersville, hang a right on 30, go up past shortys and hang a left on 915 and go down through wells tannery and into cyper and out onto 26 and down into everett.

thats my loop on my bike the rare times i take it to camp.


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The bottom line is that today’s PA deer hunting is much different than it was 50 or 60 years ago. I feel very fortunate to have experienced the 60’s and 70’s. In 50 years people will most likely be referring to 2020 as the ‘Good Old Days’. Nothing stays the same forever.


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Originally Posted by battue
If you could comprehend the article on archery hunting numbers and success,,,you would understand that archers every year are accounting for a larger percentage of the Deer kill.....Which obviously escapes you...Be that as it may, when does one make adjustments to your management plan...

As far as eliminating the special season....again you are making up as you go along....Bad habit, but we know how you work....Never said to eliminate it..did say that perhaps we could switch opportunities some time so that the rifle guys get the peak rut and nice weather..But then again you would have to take your bow out and sit on your stump in the cold perhaps...Poor boy....And many of those Deer that you get your "preferential" first chance at would be gone....Oh my, can't have that now can we..... laugh

Yes the game does belong to everyone....Which seems it would imply making sure all get an equal crack at it during the best hunting times......

And until now I have ignored one of your comments on doing it myself and seeing how easy it is....Already did that....two years in a row, and was successful both years...Wasn't that hard....In fact, sat in the tree, hardly expending any energy climbing hills and still hunting...Just sat there and when one eventually walked by shot it....Exciting for a moment, but not all that hard....


Naturally archery harvests will go up as more people participate because of the nice weather, the opportunity to hunt during the rut, and this one is big for me- the long season, which means you don’t have to shoehorn your hunting into a small time slot that can be disrupted by bad weather or other circumstances. Having long, early archery seasons before the rifle season is standard management practice in every state I know of; must be a professional game management reason for it, possibly to let breeding take place before the massive impact on deer movement by large numbers of hunters in the woods at once. Given the wailing and gnashing of teeth that occurred when PA implemented the antler restrictions and changing to a Saturday opening, the uproar caused by a major shift to the rifle opener would likely be earth-shaking.

You brought up ending the special season, mine, not yours, as a dig at me, not a serious suggestion, but my reply about the financial impact of eliminating bowhunting is still valid if the season was shifted or shortened and thus made less attractive. Many hunters would just skip it or take their license dollars elsewhere. As it stands, everyone DOES have an equal crack at the game during the best hunting times, without throwing a monkey wrench into the management plan, if they’re willing to bowhunt. You have that choice, or you can try to get the seasons changed; which do you think is your best option?

So, did you use a crossbow, or vertical? Private or Public? Don’t know where you hunt, but I can tell you that on the public land I hunt, it’s no cakewalk, there’s more foot traffic from dog walkers and other pedestrians than hunting pressure most days, and in what should be some of the best spots. This is my third season, and I’ve shot 5; three does and two bucks; two from a treestand, one from a ground seat, and two while sneaking in and out of my spots. The shooting part is pretty easy, not rifle easy, but at 35 yards it’s not tough. Getting the shots, with only scattered natural food sources and travel routes to cover, is tough. I’ve put in more time this year than previously, and only had two opportunities, one I decided to pass because a stick was in the way. Killed a buck while sneaking into my stand in Nov. Saw deer, but had no shots in rifle season, passed on my only shot in ML because of brush. Based on the gunshots heard, and lack of evidence of deer dragging, it’s been a pretty lousy season on this WMA. Still have some days left, mixed crossbow, Senior antlerless, late antlerless, and Mountaineer Heritage if I can get my musket dialed in.

You would probably like the way VA handles their seasons. Your license lets you take 5 or 6 deer, depending on location. The weapon choice is up to you; generally you buy stamps to hunt with bow and ML. Bow season runs through Oct. ML begins about the beginning of Nov, runs for two weeks, then Rifle begins, with the rut still well under way. After that, a lot depends again on where you hunt. West of the Blue Ridge and on private land in some counties there are Earn-a-Buck rules and other restrictions, but if you manage to use all your tags, you get 5 or 6 more antlerless tags at minimal cost. FWIW, deer are like rats almost everywhere, except maybe in some of the Western counties, so it’s safe to say their plan works pretty well. They even allow airguns and silencers, and have some liberal, IMO, Urban hunting and damage rules.


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Originally Posted by skeen
I've never hunted Pennsylvania, but I did get my F150 serviced today. And just so happened to flip through a copy of Petersen's Hunting in the waiting room.

In an article was mentioned the 3 states with the most bucks harvested per square mile; Michigan, South Carolina AND Pennsylvania at 3.7, 3.6 and 3.3 respectively.

On the antlerless side, Pennsylvania hunters harvested 5.1 doe per square mile in 2018, second only to Delaware's 5.3. QDMA found that Pennsylvania hunters turned in the top overall harvest at 8.4 deer per square mile.

So, some folks, somewhere, are seein' & killin' deer in PA.

https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/...-management-rank-among-other-states.html



PA also appears to have the highest number of whiney hunters per square mile. Bucks are getting bigger, seasons are getting longer, can now hunt weekends...."but damnit we don't like that either!!!"


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Our issue is the advantages given archers that is resulting in a yearly increase in the percentage of the total kill. I get the nice weather, etc,etc. However, with each year that goes on, the rifle crew has less opportunities. Let’s project a possible 50-60 percent archery kill 15 years down the road. What would that do to rifle participation or season length? Do they wait until the rifle hunters essentially quit because it’s not worth it?

Compound....public.


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battue,

The video you shared inspired me a bit - thank you.

So, question for y'all;
Some of the bigger public land areas - can one get completely away from hunters with a bit of work? Or is it like northern WI with a litany of logging roads?


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On public land, in Pa it is extremely easy to completely get away from other hunters...National Forests, State Forests and many Game Lands...Those guys in the video were on land that probably it would be rare to see another hunter let alone another foot print..There may be roads, but on the larger Game Lands you cant drive on them...The larger National and State forests allow vehicle travel, but it would be easy to get 1-10 miles from a road if you are willing to walk in...

However, in many places there are some repeated elevation changes that can occur quickly..and places that are not for the weak to get in or out.....

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Originally Posted by SKane

So, question for y'all;
Some of the bigger public land areas - can one get completely away from hunters with a bit of work?


We did and it didn't require a lot of work. Surprising actually.

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Closest SGL to my hunting camp is comprised of over 8,000 acres, Some of it is "bottom land" near the road, most is mountainous, forested and steep.

Know some who hunt there and have had success. They tell me once they get a half mile from the road and into some of the steeper stuff, they're on their own as far as other hunters..


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Originally Posted by battue
Our issue is the advantages given archers that is resulting in a yearly increase in the percentage of the total kill. I get the nice weather, etc,etc. However, with each year that goes on, the rifle crew has less opportunities. Let’s project a possible 50-60 percent archery kill 15 years down the road. What would that do to rifle participation or season length? Do they wait until the rifle hunters essentially quit because it’s not worth it?

Compound....public.


So, lest I be guilty of making up stuff that you say, are you of the opinion that rifle hunters have a claim to a certain percentage of the deer, irrespective of the number of hunters who use either type of weapon, or as is common, both types? I don’t have any figures on how many hunters fit into those groups, do you? What about success rates within those groups; are they going up, down, sideways? Without taking those numbers into consideration, simple kill figures are meaningless.

Speaking of making things up, which body orifice did you pull your future archery kill projection out of? No, don’t tell me, pretty sure I know.

Funny, but for years the stickbow boys bitched about compounds ruining their hunting, then both had a tizzy when crossbows began to be accepted. This is the first time I can recall rifle hunters whin-, er lamenting about archers killing so many deer that their opportunities were growing fewer. I’ve always looked on special seasons as more opportunities for me to hunt, not an attack on what I was doing before. The article tzone posted a link to shows that PA is doing a pretty good, stellar actually, job of managing the deer compared to the rest of the states. Maybe there are local problems here and there, but the numbers show that great opportunities exist for those who want them and maybe are willing to adapt a bit as to how and maybe where they hunt. Contrast PA with states that make you draw for every tag. You’ve got it really, really good.


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Pa does have it good.....as far as let’s project, it shows your usual thought process of not getting it. The percentage keeps going up, so perhaps we can project it possibly reaching that number.

Maybe it is your first time trying to recall rifle hunters having concern, but that isn’t the case in Pa...which if you look will be part of the thread topic. As far as pulling knowledge out of your asss, you being from WV perhaps you should try to stick with an area you are more familiar with. The State...it is obvious you are more than willing to show your asss. 😃

As far as the approximate numbers that fit into the bow vs rifle question...I do have a good idea from Pa GC records and did show a link to the current percentage of bow vs rifle in Pa? Wish I could say I’m surprised you missed it...but I can’t.

And kills divided by license sale will give a give fairly accurate number Re success rates. Let my 13 YO Grand Daughter ponder that for a short while and she would grasp it.

It is becoming more than obvious you can’t keep up...so until you are up to it Au revoir...😉 or au tout Pappy...

Just so you know...


Last edited by battue; 12/22/20.

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So it’s like that huh? Well just GFY you whiney-ass, entitled POS. ES&D.


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Well, that was pleasant? That's Campfire Forum talk. Doesn't belong down here, my opinion?


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Originally Posted by rem141r
Originally Posted by grovey
They surely were out this evening in western 4A. I left Flintstone,MD a little after 4, and decided to take the scenic route home to look see with the snowfall. I took Black Valley rd over towards Chaneysville and wound thru some back rds to and thru Clearville winding up over at Crystal Springs at dark. I saw 70 - 80 deer on my trip. It was nice to see them getting a break.


now thats a nice ride. then continue on up through akersville, hang a right on 30, go up past shortys and hang a left on 915 and go down through wells tannery and into cyper and out onto 26 and down into everett.

thats my loop on my bike the rare times i take it to camp.


Yes sir...

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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by skeen
I've never hunted Pennsylvania, but I did get my F150 serviced today. And just so happened to flip through a copy of Petersen's Hunting in the waiting room.

In an article was mentioned the 3 states with the most bucks harvested per square mile; Michigan, South Carolina AND Pennsylvania at 3.7, 3.6 and 3.3 respectively.

On the antlerless side, Pennsylvania hunters harvested 5.1 doe per square mile in 2018, second only to Delaware's 5.3. QDMA found that Pennsylvania hunters turned in the top overall harvest at 8.4 deer per square mile.

So, some folks, somewhere, are seein' & killin' deer in PA.

https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/...-management-rank-among-other-states.html



PA also appears to have the highest number of whiney hunters per square mile. Bucks are getting bigger, seasons are getting longer, can now hunt weekends...."but damnit we don't like that either!!!"


+1!

We got 5 deer between my 2 kids and myself.

Daughter had about a total of 45 minutes into her season this year. She got her buck with a crossbow. It was the first day that she didn't have some kind of sporting activity after school and with about 30 minutes of shooting light left when I got home from work. She asked if we could go out back behind the house and I reluctantly said yes. We got into the double ladder stand and I handed the crossbow to her and reached into my pocket to get a face net. Right then she said, "there's a buck"! I looked up to see one walking a trail directly in front of us. I grunted to stop him but he started right back up. She asked, "how far". I said 40 yards and grunted again. Whack, she drilled him! That "hunt" lasted 3 minutes. Her doe was in rifle season. She didn't even go out until the last hour of the first Saturday. We got in the stand at about 4:00. At 4:15 I said to her, "we'll see deer in about 30 minutes". I was off by 1 minute. At 4:46 we had 5 walking single file at 110 yards out. She got on the last in line (and largest) and when it came through an opening she made a perfect heart shot with her new birthday model seven cdl 7mm-08.
4 of our deer were with 7mm-08's. 3 with 140 AB's and 1 with a 145 grandslam.

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Originally Posted by Teeder
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by skeen
I've never hunted Pennsylvania, but I did get my F150 serviced today. And just so happened to flip through a copy of Petersen's Hunting in the waiting room.

In an article was mentioned the 3 states with the most bucks harvested per square mile; Michigan, South Carolina AND Pennsylvania at 3.7, 3.6 and 3.3 respectively.

On the antlerless side, Pennsylvania hunters harvested 5.1 doe per square mile in 2018, second only to Delaware's 5.3. QDMA found that Pennsylvania hunters turned in the top overall harvest at 8.4 deer per square mile.

So, some folks, somewhere, are seein' & killin' deer in PA.

https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/...-management-rank-among-other-states.html



PA also appears to have the highest number of whiney hunters per square mile. Bucks are getting bigger, seasons are getting longer, can now hunt weekends...."but damnit we don't like that either!!!"


+1!

We got 5 deer between my 2 kids and myself.

Daughter had about a total of 45 minutes into her season this year. She got her buck with a crossbow. It was the first day that she didn't have some kind of sporting activity after school and with about 30 minutes of shooting light left when I got home from work. She asked if we could go out back behind the house and I reluctantly said yes. We got into the double ladder stand and I handed the crossbow to her and reached into my pocket to get a face net. Right then she said, "there's a buck"! I looked up to see one walking a trail directly in front of us. I grunted to stop him but he started right back up. She asked, "how far". I said 40 yards and grunted again. Whack, she drilled him! That "hunt" lasted 3 minutes. Her doe was in rifle season. She didn't even go out until the last hour of the first Saturday. We got in the stand at about 4:00. At 4:15 I said to her, "we'll see deer in about 30 minutes". I was off by 1 minute. At 4:46 we had 5 walking single file at 110 yards out. She got on the last in line (and largest) and when it came through an opening she made a perfect heart shot with her new birthday model seven cdl 7mm-08.
4 of our deer were with 7mm-08's. 3 with 140 AB's and 1 with a 145 grandslam.


Awesome!!

How do you like the M7 CDL? IMO it's one of the best looking rifles Remington makes/made. I used that speer 145 in my 7x57. It was very accurate but penciled through at the 7x57 velocity. I'd like to load some up for my .280 actually.


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Its a very nice little rifle though I think a 22 inch barrel would balance it better. The grip is a little thick for my daughter, but she doesn't seem to mind or notice it as much as I do. grin
She picked it over a New Haven Fwt, a .257 Bob Mnt rifle and my Montana.

The 140 AB's were new for us this year. Been shooting 145 Grandslams in 7-08's and 7x57's for years (decades). I used 46 grns of H-4350 in virgin RP brass and it shoots sub-moa in her CDL, my boy's LVSF and my Montana. Velocity's a bit low, but I couldn't be happier than to have only one load for the 3 rifles! They worked to perfection.

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Tell me about the 145 Grandslams....Have some, but have heard conflicting reports.....


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I shot a grand total of one bucks with them. It was a 7mm hole in and out. Factory loaded winchesters. I really think I’d like the bullet at .280 or 7-08 speeds.


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Thanks, it would be a 7mm-08.

Last edited by battue; 12/23/20.

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They've been my favorite bullets and never had a problem with them. We've killed deer and black bear with them and never had one that appeared to not work perfectly. I can't say that for a few others.

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Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by CBB
2F Warren County I own 57acres bordering ANF...

........... Im running 9 cameras on the land and I mean they vanished.



You sure you got it covered with only 9? laugh



Lol! Yeah sometimes a 10th is nice as well!

I have 3 over the food plots and in the orchard. The others are spread out over trails and in the mountain laurel. Getting pictures of the deer and studying them is my hobby. It's more than just hunting. We chase deer 24/7/365... whether trail cams, scouting shed hunting, glassing, you name it we do it. Thats likely why we keep a freezer well stocked each fall.


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Tomorrow flinter season comes in. Can't go tomorrow, but i will be out sometime

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I got out for about an hour and half late this afternoon, didn't see a deer. It was very moonlight here tonight, around 6:30 I took the binoculars out and looked over the farm fields, saw 4 deer feeding in one of them.

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I love how most PA hunters wanna blame the Game Commission and seasons but never look in the mirror at the person that ultimately controls whether or not tags get filled.


The days of sitting on any ole stump and having pressured deer come by are gone. We simply don't have the hunter numbers we used to. Add in more guys tagging out in archery season, there just aren't many guys out there in rifle season to move deer around.


Change tactics. Scout harder. You have a group of guys? Try some small pushes. Try still hunting or snow tracking. If something doesn't work, try something else.



I had 3 sits in PA on public ground. I killed the 4th buck I saw in mid October.


Decided I wasn't done. Went to Ohio. On public. Never been there in my entire life. 3 sits produced 6 doe sightings and 6 buck sightings. Killed the 6th buck. I spent far more time scouting than hunting. It paid off.


Rifle season i hunted a couple days and saw legal buck every time.

First day of flintlock season, I wasn't in the woods an hour and had to let a great buck walk by.


Pennsylvania hunting, specifically buck hunting, has never been better. But rifle season has changed in most areas and hunters have to learn to adapt.

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"Pennsylvania hunting, specifically buck hunting, has never been better."

I agree.

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Originally Posted by Teeder
"Pennsylvania hunting, specifically buck hunting, has never been better."

I agree.


It’s all relative.


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I got out for about an hour just before dark today. I didn't see any deer but did see a dozen turkeys walk by about 20 yds away. Later on I heard them fly up for the evening. Kind of cool and I take it as small victory. I talked to the neighbor, he was out too but didn't see any deer tonight. He did say he was out with the spotlight the other night, saw 50+ including 5 or 6 bucks. So they're around, I just don't know where.

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So some can keep the faith....

A small 8 point walked thru the front yard two days ago....he had 6 or 7 Does with him and was trying to get one of them interested....


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"]PA also appears to have the highest number of whiney hunters per square mile".

Thanks for noticing. smirk

60 years of deer hunting in PA, never been any different that I can recall?.

When I was in HS, hunted now and then with one of my dad's buddies. If we didn't get any rabbits, if was always his dog's fault, or my fault. Only ever hunted deer with him once. Bitched and growled the entire way to where we were hunting. Bitched and growled even worse, the entire way home. Once was enough.

He's been gone for 45 years. Plenty around that have taken his place, when it comes to being negative..


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Hunting with the flinter this afternoon, I saw two small bucks. Also saw three does out of range and running.

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Finally saw deer, the first I've seen all season. 1 doe about 300 yds away. 4 does at less than 50 yds but semi skylined and it was 5:15. I passed on the shot. But it was good to see deer, I saw 6 in rifle season and these 5 today.

Also saw 5 squirrels where I started the morning, might have to see about hunting them later, I could use a couple more in the freezer.

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Seeing a ton of bucks in the PA late doe season. Encouraging for next year!

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My buddy from ohio was here in pa. hunting with the flinter. I made a little drive for him yesterday. Put one buck up. it wasn't a legal one. He was frustrated by the lack of deer. I think the deer are yarded up, ans when you see deer you will see a lot of them. Lots of tracks in my field this morning.

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Killed 6 so far this year, one nice buck and 3 doe with a rifle, and two doe with the flintlock. Still have two tags and Monday to go. Might add one more to the list if I get time to hunt Monday evening.


Oh, and believe it or not, deer bite. Fairly hard.
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Post deleted.

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Looks like it's tag soup on the menu here. I was out this afternoon, covered a couple of mile is the snow, didn't see one single solitary deer track or bed. A couple of squirrels, an owl and a bunch of turkey tracks was it. Last Wed night, came out of the woods about 5:15, there were 2 does in my fields (200 yds away) and 7 in the neighbor's field (half mile away). Those 9 were more than I saw all of rifle season.

It was a tough season here.

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Originally Posted by Dale K
Looks like it's tag soup on the menu here. I was out this afternoon, covered a couple of mile is the snow, didn't see one single solitary deer track or bed. A couple of squirrels, an owl and a bunch of turkey tracks was it. Last Wed night, came out of the woods about 5:15, there were 2 does in my fields (200 yds away) and 7 in the neighbor's field (half mile away). Those 9 were more than I saw all of rifle season.

It was a tough season here.

Dale

Tough one here, for me. Deer won, this year.

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Walked out today to get the mail and the trash can. There's deer tracks in the yard, about 50 feet from the back porch. Sigh...

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I hunt in 3B on both public and private land.

I live close to a small city and typically see 10-30 deer every day in my yard and travelling to and from work.

I hunt in the mountains and big woods of Sullivan Co and may not see this many deer in an entire season some years - depending on acorn production. This year I was lucky to tag a heavy 10 point on November 14 after scouting and hunting that particular area pretty hard for 9 days. I was lucky to be able to pass a number of nice bucks prior to that but warm weather made it challenging. I also missed my chance on a true giant that passed by me chasing doe at 19 yards (but never stopped for a solid shot opp) on Nov 6!

I hunt with a bow, rifle , and flinter most years and truly enjoy all seasons.

I certainly see more big bucks today in this part of Pennsylvania than I did prior to antler restrictions.

John

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I also hunt 3B and this has been the worst year in the 33 years I have hunted the area.

During the summer I had plenty of bear and coyotes on the trail cameras. A single doe and another doe with a yearling would show up occasionally.

My son and I hunted 2 weeks of archery, a third week of archery for deer and bear, the week of firearm bear, the two weeks of firearms deer. During that time I saw one Y buck twice. Ironically I did see two nice bucks during the firearm bear season. We also hunted one week of the late flintlock season and again we saw "nothing".

We had a couple of snowstorms during the time I was up there. I have permission to hunt a 1200 acre plot. I rode it with my ATV the first day and the second day after both storms. In the 2.5 to 3 miles I traveled each day I did not cross the track of any animal.

BTW If "Ogdonia" hunts out of Ogdonia camp I am about 12 miles east of him.

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Originally Posted by FWP
I also hunt 3B and this has been the worst year in the 33 years I have hunted the area.

During the summer I had plenty of bear and coyotes on the trail cameras. A single doe and another doe with a yearling would show up occasionally.

My son and I hunted 2 weeks of archery, a third week of archery for deer and bear, the week of firearm bear, the two weeks of firearms deer. During that time I saw one Y buck twice. Ironically I did see two nice bucks during the firearm bear season. We also hunted one week of the late flintlock season and again we saw "nothing".

We had a couple of snowstorms during the time I was up there. I have permission to hunt a 1200 acre plot. I rode it with my ATV the first day and the second day after both storms. In the 2.5 to 3 miles I traveled each day I did not cross the track of any animal.

BTW If "Ogdonia" hunts out of Ogdonia camp I am about 12 miles east of him.



And I'm about 5 miles north of him

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Well nice to hear from some hunters that also know Sullivan Co. I dont hunt out of Ogdonia Camp - but do know those folks and their property.

John

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Originally Posted by Ogdonia
Well nice to hear from some hunters that also know Sullivan Co. I dont hunt out of Ogdonia Camp - but do know those folks and their property.

John


30 years ago we used to walk down 87 from Camp and cut right through Ogdonia's Posters to get up on Old House. It was only a couple hundred yards of Posted land. I was young. Now I'm too old to run. laugh

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Took a 3 mile hike today, hoping to find a shed. Found a dead 7pt in a dried up creek bed, maybe 16" wide inside. Good young buck with potential. We also found a dead spike during rifle in the same area.


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We hunt in 4E and had a really good year. Between 6 of us we shot 5 buck in the first 2 weeks along with 4 doe all on the same farm. I live in 5C however and my buddies that hunt down here barely saw anything at all.

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A couple for next year as long as they don't get hit on the road! This was on Super Bowl Sunday.

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I grew up in PA, and moved away in 1995 and currently live in Texas. However my family is still up there. I’ve never missed a PA deer season.

In reading through all the posts, no mention that the firearms season opened on a Saturday (same as 2020) and this was first year they let hunting on Sunday - as opposed to the last 50 years+ of an opening season on Monday. Despite the change, I still saw the same number of hunters. Kicked out and saw about the same number of deer. No shootable bucks this year.

Hunting conditions varied from ok to miserable with respect to weather. It snowed 10” on Monday, and the visibility in the mixed woods I hunt went from few hundred yards to less than 50 yards.

I think that snow, or lack of it has a lot to do with the success I’ve generally had hunting in PA.

I live in Texas now, and the hunting is night and day with PA. There are still 100s of places I can hunt in PA, from small unposted 5-20 acre deer hideouts, to large tracks of public land. Texas is all about expensive leases. Texas hunting is just easy, but gives me nowhere the satisfaction of taking a free range, naturally fed, single PA deer. Plus an out of state license for just over $100 is a bargain.

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Originally Posted by Stammster
I grew up in PA, and moved away in 1995 and currently live in Texas. However my family is still up there. I’ve never missed a PA deer season.

In reading through all the posts, no mention that the firearms season opened on a Saturday (same as 2020) and this was first year they let hunting on Sunday - as opposed to the last 50 years+ of an opening season on Monday. Despite the change, I still saw the same number of hunters. Kicked out and saw about the same number of deer. No shootable bucks this year.

Hunting conditions varied from ok to miserable with respect to weather. It snowed 10” on Monday, and the visibility in the mixed woods I hunt went from few hundred yards to less than 50 yards.

I think that snow, or lack of it has a lot to do with the success I’ve generally had hunting in PA.

I live in Texas now, and the hunting is night and day with PA. There are still 100s of places I can hunt in PA, from small unposted 5-20 acre deer hideouts, to large tracks of public land. Texas is all about expensive leases. Texas hunting is just easy, but gives me nowhere the satisfaction of taking a free range, naturally fed, single PA deer. Plus an out of state license for just over $100 is a bargain.

What county? In Sullivan we didn't get anywhere near 10" on the first Monday

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Sorry...rained all day Monday and then it started snowing Monday night. We had 6” by the morning on Tuesday, and another 4” during the day.

By Wednesday, the weather cleared and the deer were finally moving. I jumped a decent buck and saw him a few times but couldn’t get a shot off. He ran through a cemetery and then down into town.

It was so quiet, I literally walked up on 4-5 groups of doe within 40 yds. I only hunted until 10:30 am, as I had to catch a flight back to Texas.

At least I filled the freezer in Texas.

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Originally Posted by Stammster
Crawford
Sorry...rained all day Monday and then it started snowing Monday night. We had 6” by the morning on Tuesday, and another 4” during the day.

By Wednesday, the weather cleared and the deer were finally moving. I jumped a decent buck and saw him a few times but couldn’t get a shot off. He ran through a cemetery and then down into town.

It was so quiet, I literally walked up on 4-5 groups of doe within 40 yds. I only hunted until 10:30 am, as I had to catch a flight back to Texas.

At least I filled the freezer in Texas.



Not sure I could do Texas after a lifetime in PA. Oh it would be great filling my tags every year. After all last season I didn't even get a deer. But you take away the hardwood ridges, hemlock swamps, laurel thickets, and freezing weather and I just wouldn't feel like I'm deer hunting

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Yep. I shot 3 bucks on the opening weekend of Texas deer season.

Wake up
Drive UTV to elevated stand
Wait 10 minutes until the feeder goes off
Shoot deer standing broadside 98-102 yards away
Drive UTV to pick up deer
Clean and quarter deer within 1hr so it doesn’t spoil in the 85 deg heat
Nap all day
Wake up
Drive UTV to elevated stand
Drink beer and wait 10 min until the feed goes off
Shoot deer standing broadside 98-102 yards away
Drink beer
Drive UTV to pick up deer
Drink beer
Clean and quarter deer within 1.5 hrs so it doesn't spoil in 83 deg heat
Drink beer
Go hog hunting at night
Kill hogs
...

Rinse and repeat until you get tired of shooting or cleaning
Plus there is all kind of bonus stuff that you can shoot
Turkey, raccoons, bobcats, coyote, etc.

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Originally Posted by Stammster
Yep. I shot 3 bucks on the opening weekend of Texas deer season.

Wake up
Drive UTV to elevated stand
Wait 10 minutes until the feeder goes off
Shoot deer standing broadside 98-102 yards away
Drive UTV to pick up deer
Clean and quarter deer within 1hr so it doesn’t spoil in the 85 deg heat
Nap all day
Wake up
Drive UTV to elevated stand
Drink beer and wait 10 min until the feed goes off
Shoot deer standing broadside 98-102 yards away
Drink beer
Drive UTV to pick up deer
Drink beer
Clean and quarter deer within 1.5 hrs so it doesn't spoil in 83 deg heat
Drink beer
Go hog hunting at night
Kill hogs
...

Rinse and repeat until you get tired of shooting or cleaning
Plus there is all kind of bonus stuff that you can shoot
Turkey, raccoons, bobcats, coyote, etc.






Very productive but I'd sooner tramp around the PA mountains for two weeks without getting anything than that. But I also don't care all that much about the kill anymore. I'm fine with getting back to the truck at dark without having had to gut or drag anything

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