24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15550909 12/20/20
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,774
D
DesertMuleDeer Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
D
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,774
In 16 gauge, I'm a big fan of Remington Express no. 6s for pheasants, wild flushing blue quail and from my limited experience with them, Hungarian Partridge. I've used that load for a long time and they pattern well in my Model 12s. That combo will knock birds down farther than I should shoot.

BP-B2

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15551968 12/21/20
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
B
BKinSD Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
What will happen to big green ammo? I haven't shot alot of it myself.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: battue] #15552375 12/21/20
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,884
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,884

Your point is well taken with the current political climate and what may well be....the first thing I see will be not only an uptick in MSRP (per more regulations and/or perhaps a manufacturer tax) but jumps in some kind of state of federal ammo taxes also, probably the first anti-gun initiative to take place.

It will be to begin to weed out casual middle-class shooters and dissuade others from beginning.

Not being a competitive shooter, I go through far fewer shotshells than you do but do have more 20’s, 16’s, and 12’s, especially Kent 12’s in non-steel, non-toxics, than I could use for my hunting in the foreseeable future.

But, there is no accounting for every future occurrence.

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15552441 12/21/20
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
B
BKinSD Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
I've been packing away components for metallic shooting but I need to start putting cases of shotgun shells away, for sure.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15555757 12/22/20
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,710
3
30338 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
3
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,710
Trying out some 1 ounce 1220 fps Kent loads this weekend in the 16. Got enough birds in the freezer and will pass any long shots. Looking forward to some walks again soon.

And after looking around the internet a bit last night, glad that I have enough 12 ga pheasant loads to last for a few years. Hoping they come back next summer.

IC-A

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15556793 12/22/20
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,710
3
30338 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
3
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,710
Just found some Kent 12 ga loads. 1 1/4 of 6 shot, supposedly hard shot at 1220 fps. Seems like that would be a good load though perhaps 80 feet slower than I have been shooting. Maybe I need to snag a flat of those to test out too.

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15556863 12/22/20
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
B
BKinSD Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
anxious to hear what you think


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd] #15556992 12/22/20
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,654
B
battue Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,654
Originally Posted by George_De_Vries_3rd

Battue,....the thing is..do you have enough? 😊


Maybe not....

Just received a text from a shooting Bud who was talking with another friend who is a range owner....the range owner said if I can get more I should and right now. He can’t get any Fiocchi and neither can one of the Fiocchi sponsored shooters he knows.

“Talked to Baily, he said buy all the Ficocchi ammo you can get! He can’t even smell it! & Christina is sponsored by them..”

Road trip coming up!!!!

Last edited by battue; 12/22/20.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: battue] #15557240 12/22/20
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,884
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,884
Yeah, that was tongue-in-cheek firmly planted.. I have another post where I speculate on what’s to come.

I was in Walmart today and picked up the last of the Remington Upland Express 16’s. 3 boxes.

I presume, but don’t know for sure, that this was a what-if buy-up of all things brass, powder, and projectile. It will be interesting to see how manufacturers respond in light of what’s coming January 2021 if I’m correct.

Last edited by George_De_Vries_3rd; 12/22/20.
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: Oakster] #15573156 12/26/20
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 173
R
RimfireArtist Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by Oakster
I have been having a terrible time with shooting this year. I feel like my accuracy is off, and when I do hit a bird, nothing dies solidly. I have had to ring more necks this year than ever before. I have been using Herters this year as well. I wonder if that is part of the problem?


It is highly unlikely to have anything to do with your shells unless you are using small shot (7.5's or smaller) and you are shooting birds out farther than 35 yards.

Lots of misconceptions here. First off, shot hardness is important only for the way it affects patterns at long distances. If your shot is soft you will get more setback deformation of the rear-most pellets in the shell, and deformation produces flyers. However, not every flyer leaves the pattern. Some move from the left to the right side, or from the bottom to the top, but remain in the pattern. And it is only the rear-most pellets that get deformed.

At anything out to 30 - 35 yards, you will lose very few pellets as "flyers" caused by setback deformation. Not many people shoot pheasants beyond 35 yards.

Soft shot penetrates the birds nearly as well as hard shot. Take away: shot hardness is not your problem.

7.5's, whether hard or plated or blessed by a bishop, will not penetrate a pheasant's feathers well, and especially not at 30 yards. Sure, guiding I have seen guys with 28-gauges loaded with 7.5's just slaughter pheasant after pheasant, but they were expert shots capable of "head-shooting," and they were passing on any shot over about 25 yards.

6's penetrate pheasants okay and I have killed a jillion of them with 6's, some in very long shots. HOWEVER, I try to avoid 6's any more because too many of them get left in the meat and then bitten by someone's teeth at dinner. 5's are a much better choice in this regard because nearly every #5 will go completely through a pheasant. Some #5's will be trapped by the elastic skin on the far side of the bird, but those fall away during skinning. Very few get left in the meat.

However, there is ZERO point in shooting pellets bigger than #5's, because, as noted, nearly every #5 pellet is going clean through the bird already. Going to a larger pellet gains nothing, energy-wise per pellet, and reduces your pellet-count.

If you are not a good wing shot, use very open chokes and #6's, and limit your shots to 30 yards. If you are good, use #5's, tighter chokes and the sky is the limit.

So what is your problem? Well, it is one of three things:

1. Your gun does not fit you;
2. You are simply not a good shot. Nothing to be ashamed of, very few people who do not shoot at least 20K sporting clays targets every year are good wing shots, and not all of the ones who do are.
3. I miss some birds every season to pure bad luck -- I was pivoting into a shot and stepped in a hole or branch hidden by the grass. I miss some because the lucky bird just happened to zig left or right just as I was shooting.

Some lessons will help with #2, and seeing a good gun-fitter will help with #1. Ben Hustwaite is right -- avoid any instructor who would have you shoot a pattern plate. Instead find one who can see where you are missing when you shoot clays. If you are consistently high or low, your comb may need to be lowered or raised. If you are missing left or right, you are probably doing something wrong with your eyes just before and when you pull the trigger.

But my first thought upon reading your post was, your gunfit needs can change over time! I realized mine had last month when my trusty old 20-ga. O/U was not working well during my annual SD pheasant hunt. Cleaning the birds revealed that I was consistently fringing them with the top of my pattern, IOW, shooting low (not just on rising birds, on crossers, too). I brought the gun home and raised the comb by bending the stock up about 1/2" at the heel, and now it is spot on again. I don't know why my fit needs changed, I just know they did, and when that happens, you need to change the gun -- you cannot change your body.

Good luck!

P.S. Don't try to bend your stock yourself, hire a professional. There are many good ones around the country. The photo below is not of my 20-ga, it is a friend's O/U getting a bunch of cast removed.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

Last edited by RimfireArtist; 12/26/20.
IC-B

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15574448 12/27/20
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
B
BKinSD Online Content OP
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,465
Its the Herter's shells. Go forth with a different brand and kill birds.


"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: BKinSD] #15574559 12/27/20
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 173
R
RimfireArtist Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 173
And by the way, while I do not hunt with Herters I do shoot a lot of them on clays, where they work as well there as any other shell out to at least 40 yards.

And that is typical. While shot size matters, beyond that the quality of your projectile material does not matter at all within the ranges people typically shoot pheasants at, which is 40 yards or less. You can manipulate your patterns at whatever distance you wish to optimize for with CHOKE far better. Thinking you can fix a problem hitting pheasants solidly by changing shells is a prescription for accumulating frustration that I have seen play out many times.

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: whackem_stackem] #15871364 03/07/21
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 51
H
Hal4son Offline
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 51
Originally Posted by whackem_stackem
Did you try patterning them?
I did and they suck. On wild birds I like plated shot. My favorites are Federal Premium or Fiocchi Golden Pheasant. Bang for the buck the Golden Pheasant load holds great patterns in all of my guns and kills. I believe velocity in shot shells is over rated. It blows the pattern up. I stick with around 1200 FPS.


Federal Premium and Fiocchi Golden Pheasant have always been solid performers.

Re: Shotgun effectiveness [Re: RimfireArtist] #15872013 03/07/21
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,654
B
battue Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,654
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
And by the way, while I do not hunt with Herters I do shoot a lot of them on clays, where they work as well there as any other shell out to at least 40 yards.

And that is typical. While shot size matters, beyond that the quality of your projectile material does not matter at all within the ranges people typically shoot pheasants at, which is 40 yards or less. You can manipulate your patterns at whatever distance you wish to optimize for with CHOKE far better. Thinking you can fix a problem hitting pheasants solidly by changing shells is a prescription for accumulating frustration that I have seen play out many times.



It is not only the quality of shot used....the powder used also plays a role. Especially powder that produces the advertised FPS in the cold. I've seen enough half hearted, low recoil "bloopers" from the cheap shells in the cold, to know you get what is advertised on the box when you go with top quality shells. You get 1200FPS and not 1050FPS on a cold day.

And you can add in wads that have been tested to consistently seal the bore.

Federal and the top brand game loads are tested for consistency over a wide range of temps...Herters and the like, obviously load the case with whatever they can get at the lowest price point....


Last edited by battue; 03/07/21.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1b
Who's Online Now
615 registered members (12344mag, 160user, 1234, 10gaugemag, 06hunter59, 1100mag, 69 invisible), 2,004 guests, and 504 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2022 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.30 Page Time: 0.047s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8500 MB (Peak: 0.9756 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-09-16 16:28:05 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS