Lots of factors at play in shotgun shell effectiveness. Skill, range, choke, size...I think an underrated factor is "how hard/round is the shot?" I think velocity is overrated.
I bought four cases of Herter's 16ga a few years back. Two cases of 6, two cases of 5. The sixes are one ounce, the fives are 1 1/8. Should be deadly, right?
I noticed quite quickly that I wasn't getting enough kills with either of them. They've been sitting on the basement floor. I thought it might be in my head. So I took nothing but the 5's with me on Sunday. Emptied my pockets and replaced all with Herter's fives. Hunted alone so dogs and I could focus on just us. Dogs ended up working their asses off to run down these birds. Something seems amiss with these Made in Italy shells. I suspect it is in the shot. I'll probably get bored and do some more work on it.
The most effective shells I ever bought were Federal Classic Field 16ga from the mid 90's. I had two cases of #6's that I bought at Walmart in Madison Wi on a closeout for $2 a box. They were real slayers. One ounce, not too much velocity, and penetrated like a prom king.
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Did you try patterning them? I did and they suck. On wild birds I like plated shot. My favorites are Federal Premium or Fiocchi Golden Pheasant. Bang for the buck the Golden Pheasant load holds great patterns in all of my guns and kills. I believe velocity in shot shells is over rated. It blows the pattern up. I stick with around 1200 FPS.
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I would second that advice..pattern the loads you are using. Using flushing or pointing dogs? I had pointers when I hunted SD...also used hand loaded 1 1/4 oz.5`s., IMP. and MOD. O/U. Always patterned my loads. I also taught myself to focus on the birds head when flushed..far fewer last birds.
I agree that hard lead shot or plated shot is a’ priori for patterns. It’s nothing that wasn’t discovered long ago (Bob Brister) but soft shot deforms and flys erratically out to the edges (or further) of POA.
Over the years, I’ve gone to nickel-plated Fiocchi 1 oz 20’s and and 1 1/8 oz 16’s at 1245 and 1310 respectively. I parted ways with their 12’s however, thinking 1 13/8 oz at 1485 is unnecessary for pheasants in my world.
I use 1oz of lead 6's(B&P High Pheasant) in my 12ga upland sxs's and 7/8oz of ITX 6's and 1 oz of Bismuth 5's in my waterfowl 12ga. In the 16ga 3/4oz ITX 6's for waterfowl and an oz of handloaded lead 5's for upland. These work just fine for me. I will say that the 1oz 2 3/4" 20ga Goldern Pheasant round was stellar the one year I bothered taking a 20ga MT a 5 lb 15 oz 12ga sxs became my goto upland shotgun and all else for gotten.
Lots of factors at play in shotgun shell effectiveness. Skill, range, choke, size...I think an underrated factor is "how hard/round is the shot?" I think velocity is overrated.
I bought four cases of Herter's 16ga a few years back. Two cases of 6, two cases of 5. The sixes are one ounce, the fives are 1 1/8. Should be deadly, right?
I noticed quite quickly that I wasn't getting enough kills with either of them. They've been sitting on the basement floor. I thought it might be in my head. So I took nothing but the 5's with me on Sunday. Emptied my pockets and replaced all with Herter's fives. Hunted alone so dogs and I could focus on just us. Dogs ended up working their asses off to run down these birds. Something seems amiss with these Made in Italy shells. I suspect it is in the shot. I'll probably get bored and do some more work on it.
The most effective shells I ever bought were Federal Classic Field 16ga from the mid 90's. I had two cases of #6's that I bought at Walmart in Madison Wi on a closeout for $2 a box. They were real slayers. One ounce, not too much velocity, and penetrated like a prom king.
I wasn't very happy with the herters shot shells I purchased on sale. Experienced the same lack of knockdown with pheasants and chukars. I patterned them and not very good patterns. I always seem to go back to the Fiocci golden pheasant or prairie storm in the late season. And bismuth in my sxs's hunting waterfowl production areas
Very little since a pattern board is 2 dimensions and a Pheasant flying moves into the realm of 4 dimensions....
POI perhaps...if your field mount on game is exactly the same as your perfect mount on the pattern board....it usually isn't. Most would do better to pattern...gun down....on flying going away clays......
I would second that advice..pattern the loads you are using. Using flushing or pointing dogs? I had pointers when I hunted SD...also used hand loaded 1 1/4 oz.5`s., IMP. and MOD. O/U. Always patterned my loads. I also taught myself to focus on the birds head when flushed..far fewer last birds.
That put more Birds into your vest than the pattern board.....
For me and my style of hunting I find that I put more birds in the bag with smaller shot. I don’t shoot 9s at pheasant but I have killed a ton of them with 7 1/2s. I like 1oz in the 20, 1 1/8 in 16, and 1/4 in the 12.
I read an article years ago that claimed smaller shot gave more consistent results at normal ranges due to the better pattern density increasing the odds of head an neck hits. It made sense to me at the time and happened to coincide with my finding the first box of high brass 7 1/2s I’d ever seen on a shelf at a small store in rural Kansas. Decided to try it and had good results.
A few years ago I bought a box of 1 3/8oz 2s on my way to a week’s pheasant hunting in South Dakota during late December. The common wisdom being that large pellets penetrate late season birds with heavy feathers and longer flushing distances. After a couple days of chasing cripples and having to shoot birds twice I switched back to 6s or 7 1/2s and had much better results. YMMV
Herter's shells were a poor buy for pattern and cycling for me. I may be wrong, but I feel like the improvement in performance for quality shells makes up for the cost because I make more hits using fewer shells.
Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s
Thought it was me and my 16 with the Herters but now thinking it may be the Herters lol. Going to try some Kent #6 if I get time yet this year. The one day this year I used the Herters in 16 on roosters, had 3 runners. Not good. Was using skeet 2 and IM. May try IM, Full next year as well.
Yes correct, I looked for POI compaired to POA. IME, if your shotgun "fits" you, POI&POA are the same..if not, get another shotgun. ONE reason I have ONE shotgun, many rifles. 2nd reason to patten, consistency of the pattern, full& round, any holes etc. with more than one shot fired. did this with all my reloads, varying components, powder charge, shot cups, crimp pressure. Hulls remained Win AA, low brass.
Shot size was important...went to 4`s, 1 1/4 oz. Killed very well, patterned very well, both in IC and Mod in my gun. I worked over pointing dogs..so many shots were close...20-30 yrds. Gun and load did everything I asked them to do.
Super interesting hardness results. This doesn't surprise me at all. I've had no cycling problems but I've run them through at least four 16ga shotguns with same general results.
Last edited by BKinSD; 12/16/20.
"Miss Jean Louise, stand up. Your father's passin.'"
In my AYA #2 16 ga I found old Winchester Mark 5 loaded with 1-1/8oz of #6 shot to be the best for me. Did not like Fiocchi Golden Pheasant ammo at all. Remington Express was good too. I like #6 in that load as it broke more wings and legs than #5 did, resulting in most birds hit being recovered, yet most of the shot went through and wasn't residual in the meat. #7-1/2 left too much shot in a pheasant for my tastes...(teeth actually), but is great for smaller birds...quail, chukar and huns.
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