Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives ford engineers need a swift kick in da nuts

Do the Ford engineers lay awake at night thinking of ways to make it more difficult and messy to do a, what used to be" simple job? Anyone doing their own oil changes on these new F150's have probably figured out that it is a messy pain in the arsh.
I do fleet maintenance here at work. The simple stuff like oil changes, tire rotation, etc. Newest F150 was due for an oil change today. Figured I'd have 4 bolts to remove to take off the stupid aero-dynamic "mud catcher" plate that the 17,18, 19's have only to find that now you have to remove 6 bolts to remove the connected "mud catchers" from under the truck just to reach the oil drain plug. And then on top of that, the engineers manage to place the oil drain plug almost right above the torsion bar, real handy.
Of course, if you ain't a skinny [bleep] like I am, you can't even get on a creeper and roll in under the side of the truck because they sit so low these days and don't even try to roll in under the front of the truck to reach the oil filter, which is also placed in a horrible location so that when you unscrew it the oil drains down on the front diff., and other places that ensures the spent oil will miss the catch pan that you have on the floor. And then the spent oil drip, drip, drips for days after the oil change any where and every where you park.

Good lord Ford could learn a thing from Toyota. My Tacoma is the easiest damn oil change ever. Easy to catch the spent oil, easy to reach the filter on top of the engine. What a concept....

Would someone kick a Ford engineer first chance you get...…...end of rant...

My gas F250 is the easiest vehicle I’ve ever had for oil changes, better even than my 79. Sits high enough I can slide right under and almost sit up underneath it. Drain plug is easy to get to and doesn’t have anything under it for the oil to spill onto. Filter is vertical on the driver side of the pan up high enough to not get hit off-road but easy to reach to take off and put on.

Why they don’t make the half tons the same way is beyond me. Some enginerd that’s never seen an oil filter probably designed them I’m sure.

My 90's Subarus were great.
Short fat me could lay on the ground and pull the plug and filter.
No lifting required.

The tranny filter is a screw on canister beside the oil cooler/radiator.

Fuel filter?
Pop the hood, 3 or four hose clamps that are right there.
Snap open the clamp, swap old for new, clamps.
Done.
No lifting, nothing but a nut driver.

Went from them to a Ford.
WTF was I thinking?

Don't have a clue what you was thinking. But I'm thinking you didn't want to be a homosexual anymore.....grin

actually only a pain in the arsh the first time to reach the oil drain because the cute little mud catcher pans don't get put back on. When the day comes that the trucks get ready to go to auction, I'll put the pans back on for their final trip out of our shop.

Apparently not many on this board change their own oil on their F150's, because surely I can't be the only one that it bothers, just a little. Or maybe it's the fact that I have a fleet of the suckers to do so it's more than the occasional routine.

How about cutting an access hole below the drain bolt to get your socket wrench extension through? I use to change my own, but $20.00 plus my own oil and filter at the local repair shop makes it not worth my time and mess under the truck.

I agree it a PITA.
I've got a FX stuff on mine. The bottom engine cover/splash guard thing has to be removed to get to the drain plug. I put a Fumoto plug in which makes it a little easier because I can attach a hose which keeps the draining oil somewhat contained.
You have to just crack the oil filter and let it drain slowly or oil gets all over the skid plate (which has some kind of oil guide assembly).
As I said, its a PITA and I initially was just going to have my dealer do it but since they messed up in some way every time I've been there, I now do it myself. Not happy but at least I know it's done right.

My 20024 Tacoma is just as bad.The oil filter is on the side of the block.Unscrew it and oil goes every where. You can't just reach up and unscrew it and have to be a contortionist to get your hand and foream up around things and then have a 6" shorter wrench.
To get to all that,first you have to remove the rear skid plate which is held in place by two bolts buried up in a hole and then 3 screw to remove the front skid plate.

Putting it all back together you find your chances are 50/50 to be able to get the bolts back in without stripping them.
I leave the read skid plate off , but have to keep the front one on because of all the plastic under there

Your engineer was the misbegotten child of the engineer who designed the mid '90's air intake plenum that draped over the right hand bank of the 5.8L. Guaranteed 6 or 7 hours to change the right valve cover gasket..shop rate back then made for a 700 buck valve cover gasket r&r. Happy customers? Oh yeah.

I suppose a guy could but the hole would have to be about 8" long because when you pull the drain plug oil shoots out a good 8" or so at first, then eventually drains directly down to a trickle.

Anytime ya work on things you'll sooner or later you'll cuss an engineer.

I love the story or how I've heard it, about the Lear jet company. Anytime they hired a new engineer they put him//her on the assembly line for six months. When they got cut or had to a contortionist, or had major problems with assembly they made note of it & when they got to the drawing board they improved things & thought ahead with new designs.

It's been said that Lear jets are very easy to work on. Mechanic friendly.

I think that most cars and trucks are designed for a certain amount of longevity but primarily for ease and timely assembly on a moving assembly line. I have a 2012 F-350 6.7 Ford Superduty that requires the removal of the cab to access/repair engine for many break downs, $$$$$.

Aircraft can be tough to work on, I spent my USN time working on Lockheed P-3 Orions and other misc aircraft.

All about the dealer revenue.
50% increase in the number of bolts means more labor hours....

Ford engineers must have done the Tundra’s as well then.

2020 Tundra requires 3 bolts plus 3 other sized bolts (or a philips bit) to remove the mud catcher. Plus it hangs in catch hooks. Which means it catches on everything you don’t want it to catch on when trying to reattach it. Knocking mud off in your face. Plus the front screws are in some stupid plastic knock in insert that gets popped out. The back bolts are retained by a special sheet metal washer and a stand-off that go flopping around god only knows where.

Wife’s Infiniti is about as bad. Takes 3 different sockets to get the mud catcher off. But at least they got the oil draining on the cross member solved. Bent up sheet metal funnel welded on to catch the oil and funnel it forward to catch in your bucket.

Talk all you want about the failures of a Ford 6.0. At least the oil change is easy. Filter on top of motor. Don’t spill a drop changing it. Of course, the lack of spill there is made up for by the fuel filter down on the frame where your whole upper body takes a bath when you pull the drain plug that you couldn’t access due to the drive shaft coming off the transfer case.

I agree. My 4.0 Tacoma is really simple. No mess, no fuss.

plate has to be removed on the newer ones to get at drain plug. They copied Toyotas idea about putting the oil filter at the top of the engine. Still a POS Subaru.

Genie lifts do the same. They require their engineers to be mechanics or atleast have been a mechanic before the design any Arial platform. Easiest piece of gear I have ever worked on. They also ask the workers who assemble the lifts their opinions and if things could be done differently. They pay their employees a nice bonus for good ideas.


Spent a week in their factory. Very impressive.

Our Toyota Highlander is easy for an oil change. The filter is just behind the front 'skid plate' (actually a plastic mud shield) and very easy to get at. The drain plug is just behind that. I run it up on some ramps and I'm done in 15 min. It does use one of those cartridge filters but it's easy to work with, no harder than a spin on.

My Dodge diesel is worse. Getting at the filter takes a real long socket extension and a filter wrench that fits on the end of the filter. It's not terrible but harder than the Toyota. You really don't want to overtighten the filter on that one. If you do, you have remove a fender liner to get a strap wrench on it from the side.

Amazing. I change the oil and filter on my 2012 F150 in less than 30 minutes taking my sweet time. The wifes' 2018 F150 takes less than 20 minutes and I never get any mess. I must be doing something wrong.
I should add that hers is a cartridge filter. Doesn't get any easier IME so don't kick anyone on my behalf.

Remember years ago when Ford was selling Mazda pickups? I looked at one...very briefly. The 1st thing I saw was where they had the oil filter. It was in plain sight but down low right on top of the axle. I tried to reach it but my arm needed 2 elbows to get at it through the steering gear. I didn't buy myself a headache with that one.

I had one. A 1972 ford courier.....

For the Ford people that specified the My Ford Sony Sync System too. There has been three upgrades on this so far and there still hasn't been a factory recall. My local Ford dealer is completely baffled on how to repair mine and has had my truck at their place over three weeks now. They told me that I'd need to pay the $125.00 diagnostic charge. Okay fine. First they told me that it needs a new Apim at $600. Replaced and the same issue with the Sync system turning on an off every 15 seconds. Then they said the Sync screen was defective. That was $2,200. (!) and they ordered the wrong part. Then they took the Sync system out of a used vehicle to try and no change. Then they told me that the computer was corrupted at more labor hours to sort that out. Then Ford told them to trace all the wiring for a possible short and that didn't turn up anything. Now they told me it must be the Acm, a cute acronym for the audio control module, and that is $1,600. Back on November 19 I told them and wrote them a letter telling them that the only thing that I couldn't adjust WAS the radio. That sure reads like the audio control module should have been the first place that they looked. This is turning into a royal cluster [bleep]. I'm not sure what my next move should be? They told me that their people haven't worked on many of these. I'm sure that they would like me to just leave them a pile of cash for not fixing anything, take the truck and just go away. Ideas welcome.

I have part of one. Buddy made a trailer out of the bed after it was rolled* and killed the cab.


*He had foolishly co-signed on the truck for a friend who did the rolling. I traded him for it. Pretty handy.

I don’t know man. When I was reading and researching prior to ordering a truck a year or two ago I read enough horror stories to specifically stay away from the upgraded infotainment system. Sucks sometimes not having a CD player but otherwise I’m missing nothing I would like to have had as I don’t use or want navigation or satellite radio. Hope they get it ironed out for you.

"I read enough horror stories to specifically stay away from the upgraded infotainment system."
I'm sure rethinking that move myself. Our deer fit better lengthwise in a truck bed and since I wanted to put a mattress down in mine once in a while, I wanted the four door and 6.5 foot bed length. The only one like that was the dealer Platinum demo truck with every possible option, most of which I'll never use. A knob works just fine to adjust the radio station, temperature, fan speed, but now I get a touch screen to do all that and it is going to cost me. The iPhone would do the navigation if I didn't have it in the truck. I did bring the truck home over the holiday weekend because we are having a snow storm. The screen stays on now with a new ACM, but nothing else works that the touch screen controls. Ford needs to get my dealer a computer reprogramming sequence for my model year and vin number. I had no idea that so many functions were interdependent on an onboard computer. Technology is great when it works, but it gets really expensive to fix when it doesn't.

Sorry you're having problems. I bought this 2010 EL a couple of months ago for my SD hunting rig and it is fantastic. It is completely loaded but the Synch and everything else on it works great. I love the remote start, rear hatch I can open and close from the dash, killer sound system.

I don't know about drain-plug access because I take it to a dealer for oil changes, as they are very inexpensive, even for synthetic.

You're joking, right?

To replace the starter on my 2000 Tundra V-8 you have to remove the intake manifold!!!

I knew a true old time mechanic that worked on them all. He said all automotive engineers were housed on the 27th floor of office building. They were put there because nobody can throw a rock that high.

Well kick em once for me too will ya. My f150 with that fancy new push button electronic tailgate latch was an engineering marvel as well. Oh yea no way to get around so when it decides it aint gonna work no more. (like now) you cant drop your tailgate. So you take the inside tailgate panel off and reach around to release the tailgate. Yea that was a good idea

Some great tips here.

They learn from each other. A friend had a Ford Aerostar van with a V-6. He traded it in with well over 100k and one of the rear sparkplugs was still the one from the factory. You literally had to pull then engine to remove it. He sold it while it was still running good.

LOL...
I remember having this conversation with mechanics at my local co-op shop when they were complaining about working on a ford Probe. I said the customer bought it for the style and not to work on it.
..
Low initial cost or features are usually considered first inthe vehicle bidding / buying process so you need to change that if your a fleet mechanic.

Do a serviceability audit on every purchase or bid before you select them. Justify it to the boss in service dollars over the life of the vehicle.

See how far your opinion goes when the bids come in.

Speaking of starters, when is the last time anyone had to change a starter on a newish vehicle? Seems to be one part that they got figured out, as it used to be a fairly common piece to have to change.

Any engineer attached to any engineering on any 4WD vehicle should have to lay on the ground and let a line worker or dealer mechanic drive the vehicle over them to check clearances. Anything that touches, scuffs, scrapes, or perforates the prone engineer should be re-engineered to be higher off the ground.

Also, said engineer should be made to replace every part of their designs before they can be sold. They need to know how bad their bright ideas are screwing their customers.

I use an empty steel 5 gallon closed top bucket. I place it directly below my Fumoto drain valve on my F250 4x4, open the ball valve & let it drain. Once it begins to drip I close the ball valve, screw the lid on the bucket, turn it onto its side and give it a shove to roll into the grass beside the driveway. It is ready to go to the oil recycle center, no mess & no fuss. Never even need a rag.

and what about the oil filter? What year 250 do you have?
On my 01 F250, same as you, flip fumoto valve, easy peasy, then I poke a hole in the bottom of the oil filter at the same time and let it drain into its own pan. Then spin it off without spillin' a drop. Easy to roll under the F250, plenty of room.

The new F 150's, not possible.

F150 with the 5.0 liter Coyote engine oil change. Front horizontal oil filter. The oil leaks down on the cross member. Even after using a dozen rags to wipe it clean, it will drip oil for days after.

Like many, I always have some jumper cables aboard. Not for jumping vehicles. I will use them if I ever run into a Ford Engineer.

I just pay my mechanic to change the oil.

I do the same as you on the filter. I have a 99.5 F250 7.3, 4x4 with camper package. Don’t know if that raises it any over normal 4x4’s. I can slide under with no trouble.

Wow

Learjets are the biggest PITA. Great story, if true. I have maintained Lear 24, 25, 35, and 55 models- they are full of tiny, snap together [bleep] that breaks every time you touch it. Changing the battery is nearly impossible unless you are some scrawny little turd. Learjet=junk.

Love my Gulfstream.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I'm currently in the process of changing valve cover gaskets on a 4.0L SOHC in an Exploder.

Too pissed to take pictures of the # 8 intake manifold bolt search-and-remove mission.

When my Wife and I were married she had a 1976 Pontiac Grand Prix that was in great shape. The first time that I changed the oil, I discovered that the oil filter was positioned horizontally and above the exhaust pipe, so I had to reach around a warm exhaust pipe to reach the filter and when I removed it warm oil dripped onto the warm exhaust pipe. Quite messy. My FIL installed after-market remote oil filters in the fender, so that they were easy to get to. Seemed like a great idea.

Try less coffee.

I will admit the "mud catcher" on my 16 F-150 is a bit of a pain but not horrible. The oil filter is strange being on top of the engine. But it is what it is.