|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,759
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,759 |
I bought a 444 Marlin around 83, pre-hammer block. It was accurate with both factory Rem offerings (240gr & 265gr iirc). Grouped about an inch at 100 yds, trigger was excellent. Mounted a small Bushnell and killed a buck with it. Kicked pretty hard or maybe I was too young? ![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/YDJwV4S/20210106-224754-1-1.jpg) Later I sold it due to my brother telling me it's a rifle shooting pistol bullets and that's not good???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354 |
No offense to you or your brother but that advice regarding only pistol bullets doesn’t really tell the story regarding 444 Marlin performance. True there are 44 Mag designed bullets that shoot well in the 444 Marlin, many discount their effects, but a 225-250 JHP at 2,400 fps-2,500 fps dumps massive expansion, energy and wounding on big bodied animals in the 400 lbs class. That is only the beginning as there are many .430” JFP bullets from 265 gr- 300 gr made by Sierra, Speer, Hornady and Woodleigh. Barnes makes a solid FP 300 gr bullet (Buster), which is a bone crusher that I load at 2,000 fps. Then there are 20+ Keith style HC bullets from 200 gr - 400 gr. I load 290 gr and 335 gr. I still have 50 rounds of the old 280 gr CorBon FPX that clocks at 2,250 fps. Have killed two elk with that load and it was impressive. Many comment on not having the power for big bears, I for one would not hesitate to shoot that 280 gr CorBon load on a big bear and back it up with the 300 grain Barnes Solid at 2,000 fps or the RimRock 335 HC at 2,100 fps. No bear is going to survive the penetration and wounding of well placed hits from those big projectiles out of a fast handling lever gun under field hunting conditions. I always have to chuckle when the 444 Marlin is demoted to some lowly platform from many who have never loaded for it and can’t appreciate the various levels of performance it can be dialed in for. Like always the only thing that matters in bullet performance is matching the bullet to the intended game and the 444 Marlin does that very well. Best Wishes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,625
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,625 |
my micro groove 444 loved the 240 gr Remington i could touch bullets at 100 yards with ease but i discovered the hornady 265gr fp just takes deer down alot better and while they don't touch stil a nice tight group
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
I LOVE MY COUNTRY IT'S THE GOV'T I FEAR
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,057
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,057 |
For what ever reasons the 444 fell short on sales in the past. Manufacturers are aware of this. There is no reason to believe it will do better now. Would you invest money out of your pocket for the reintroduction of the 444. Maybe $4 or $500,000 of your money on a maybe gamble where you stand to lose it all f it doesn't sell. This is what a company is looking at.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 580
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 580 |
Last edited by ledvm; 01/16/21.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445 |
Lehigh's 265gn copper solid...less cost., more weight. I use plenty of 4198, but RL-7, 5744 or 2400...less recoil.
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,759
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,759 |
No offense to you or your brother but that advice regarding only pistol bullets doesn’t really tell the story regarding 444 Marlin performance. True there are 44 Mag designed bullets that shoot well in the 444 Marlin, many discount their effects, but a 225-250 JHP at 2,400 fps-2,500 fps dumps massive expansion, energy and wounding on big bodied animals in the 400 lbs class. That is only the beginning as there are many .430” JFP bullets from 265 gr- 300 gr made by Sierra, Speer, Hornady and Woodleigh. Barnes makes a solid FP 300 gr bullet (Buster), which is a bone crusher that I load at 2,000 fps. Then there are 20+ Keith style HC bullets from 200 gr - 400 gr. I load 290 gr and 335 gr. I still have 50 rounds of the old 280 gr CorBon FPX that clocks at 2,250 fps. Have killed two elk with that load and it was impressive. Many comment on not having the power for big bears, I for one would not hesitate to shoot that 280 gr CorBon load on a big bear and back it up with the 300 grain Barnes Solid at 2,000 fps or the RimRock 335 CorBonHC at 2,100 fps. No bear is going to survive the penetration and wounding of well placed hits from those big projectiles out of a fast handling lever gun under field hunting conditions. I always have to chuckle when the 444 Marlin is demoted to some lowly platform from many who have never loaded for it and can’t appreciate the various levels of performance it can be dialed in for. Like always the only thing that matters in bullet performance is matching the bullet to the intended game and the 444 Marlin does that very well. Best Wishes. Ross, No offense taken but keep in mind I owned and sold the Marlin 444 back in the early 80s. Reloading supplies were limited to local gun shops mostly back then and old style mail. Doubt many of the options you listed weren't even available? CorBon wasn't. I never loaded for the 444 just used the Remington factory ammo available back then, it did punch a nice hole in that buck. .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 528
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 528 |
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. Maybe not right away, but the 444 was being produced all the way up to shut down.
Maybe not to the modern audience, but the 1895 444 is to marlin what the 30WCF is to the 94, a class defining caliber. Unfortunately the 45-70 came back and took market share.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. Maybe not right away, but the 444 was being produced all the way up to shut down.
Maybe not to the modern audience, but the 1895 444 is to marlin what the 30WCF is to the 94, a class defining caliber. Unfortunately the 45-70 came back and took market share. I had both, but still have the 444. I may get rid of it now that Hornady had discontinued the 265 gr. FP. It was a nice cartridge, but obviously this is a minority opinion or everything about and for it would be chugging along.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 528
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 528 |
Didn't hear that Hornady Discontinued to the 265gr. What alternatives are out there?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,313 |
I suppose the Speer 270 gr. might make a good substitute, but I've never tried it.
Brushbuster: "Is this thread about the dear heard or there Jeans?"
Plugger: "If you cant be safe at strip club in Detroit at 2am is anywhere safe?"
Deer are somewhere all the time
To report a post you disagree with, please push Alt + F4. Thank You.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,371
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,371 |
I suppose the Speer 270 gr. might make a good substitute, but I've never tried it. It may be the Best bullet for the .444 Marlin. Works well in the Winchester. I believe it puts deer and pigs down quicker than the 310 grain Lee bullet and it does a pretty good job.
Slim
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,959
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 47,959 |
This is what my Marlin can do with 325gr har cast... ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/LThBr2J.jpg) 5 danged shots and nothing near the bull... might as well sell it while it’s worth something  Looks like 6 shots to me, but I agree. I'd sell it to someone who can hit the orange dot.. I have experience in that department...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,912
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,912 |
I've had a 450 Marlin and a few 45-70 Marlins but never a 444. I would like to get one though
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354 |
In a tube feed lever I don’t think you could find a more powerful, comfortable, versatile shooter. Throwing 200gr-405gr loads with JHP, JFP, Barnes Solid Buster, custom Woodleigh and Hawk FP and boodles of Keith style Gas Check Cast bullets. Many always said the 444 Marlin was handicapped by 44 Mag Bullets, I say it was always a big plus especially with today’s bullet technology and powders available. In the end there is not much a 444 Marlin can’t tackle in the field when matching bullet to game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
I had a .444, but it was a 1/38 twist and wouldn't stabilize 300 grain bullets.
With a 1/20 twist and the ability to use heavy hard cast LBT bullets, the .444 becomes a whole 'nother beast. mine has a 1 in 38 twist, a 1980 manufactured gun....most common bullet weight I have used in the field is the 300 gr XTP bullet at about 1850 fps... After buying that 444 long ago, a buddy bought a 45/70 Marlin just to have something bigger than mine... He was always wanting me to shoot his, so I would buy the 45/70 version.... I did shoot it often in our Northern MN and Wisc hunts.... but for deer hunting it never gave me any thing more than the 444 did... bought my Marlin 444 for $219 back in those days.... its always done anything I could ever expect out of it.. heaviest deer I've ever shot weighed about 265lbs field cleaned, that was in Northern MN....and was taken down in one shot by that 444.... on a 30 below zero day.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
I bought a 444 Marlin around 83, pre-hammer block. It was accurate with both factory Rem offerings (240gr & 265gr iirc). Grouped about an inch at 100 yds, trigger was excellent. Mounted a small Bushnell and killed a buck with it. Kicked pretty hard or maybe I was too young? Later I sold it due to my brother telling me it's a rifle shooting pistol bullets and that's not good??? That 1980s hair cut is certainly a blast from the past.....if nothing else....takes one back to happier times... Several times I've let kids, up to the age of 20 use my 444 when we took them hunting for their first time... have used them loaded to just a 1000 fps, with 180, 200 and 225 gr XTP bullets, when hunting just south of International Falls MN... Swamp hunting, in real cold temps... recoil was literally minimum.... but within 100 yds, which was long distance in those Northern Swamps, those "pistol" bullets always worked without a hiccup.... bang / flop....equal to a 44 Rem Mag load... redlining those pistol XTP bullets or Remington and Hornady's 240 and 265 grain bullets, were just the same.... drop the velocity down to 1800 FPS or so, ya reduced recoil 40 % or more... those bullets were like shooting parachute laden pingpong balls...no aerodynamics... you gave up 10 to 15 yds of point blank range and improved the accuracy for most shooters... after shooting those lighter loads, and their results of bang/flop, each one instantly wanted to go buy a 444.... the ones that figure a 45/70 would be even better, with my buddy Keith's recommendation, and bought one... sold them because they thought it kicked too much... not so with the ones who bought the 444...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,734
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,734 |
I think the 45/70 and 444 are much like the modern 44 R.E.M. Mag and 45 LC. Not much difference.
But the 45 is more versatile on heavier loads, the 444 on lighter loads.
The elephant in the room is the seemingly non issue or non impact the 450 marlin had on the debate.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,354 |
Nothing wrong in terms of performance with the 450 Marlin. It’s popularity is muted by many who disdain its appearance (the belt), which has nothing to do with it firing a 400 gr. projectile at just shy of 2,000 fps. It holds about 5 grains less water than the 45-70, but is SAAMI loaded to higher pressure than the 45-70. Folks that push the 45-70 into hot at 42K-44K CUP where both Marlin cartridges operate put a great deal more stress on their bolts from Bolt Thrust by virtue of the 45-70s larger internal/external case head area. Eventually repeated hot loads at those pressures will degrade a Marlin or a Winchester lever gun. So you see the 45-70 reaching higher velocities but there is a cost to that performance on lever gun internals.
If you read most of Turnbull’s load developments and recommendations you’ll see he never exceeds 40K CUP and recommends staying about 38K CUP on 1886s with 45-70 and his 470 and 475 Turnbull loadings.
The 450 Marlin’s belt is less essential for worrying about chambering in bolt guns, etc., it is however pivotal regarding having a slightly tapered straight wall and needing something to headspace on. There is not a hill of beans difference in power and hunting game under field conditions between it and a 45-70. Unfortunately Hornady and Marlin both turned their backs on brass and rifle promotion. If you hand load the 450 Marlin you get versatility and a very potent lever gun same as the 458x2 American.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,371
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,371 |
.450 Marlin came along at the wrong time.
Marlin was riding high with many different firearms and USRA Winchester was folding in on itself.
Where the .450 shines is adding serious power to the Model 94 Winchester.
The problem is the standard Model 94 in .450 Marlin has a retail price of $1,200.00. I am not saying the rifle is not worth the price. I am saying it is a bit more than I want to pay.
I have a .356 Winchester and it is a wonderful hunting rifle. It was not cheap when I bought it but it did not have the same impact as the current price for the .450 Winchester..
Slim
|
|
|
|
|
609 members (06hunter59, 1eyedmule, 12344mag, 1beaver_shooter, 21, 222ND, 75 invisible),
2,434
guests, and
1,265
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,678
Posts18,456,284
Members73,909
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
