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From this Americans view point Australia has done a fairly good job mitigating the spread of Covid-19. Suppose I am curious how opinion varies throughout Australia, What has been done well & what would you do different?

For one reason or another your results of inhibiting the spread seems to be admirable from the outside looking in. Do the Australian people feel they are doing to much or to little for the most part. please share what you feel is working well in terms of slowing the spread of covid 19 in Australia.


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States and territoties varied, some wore masks, most didnt, most locked small businesses down, some still do with restrictions at bars and cafes, but major businesses, retail and supermarkets are unrestricted. We sanitize door handles in stores, but no one cares how much fresh produce you handle or squeeze for freshness. You figure it out if you can.

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So despite many questionable efforts and or lack thereof Australia seems to be experiencing more favorable results than a lot of other countries. Go figure! I am happy for you.


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I think the majority of us have gone along with the restrictions to get through it without fearing any long term loss of freedom - it'll blow over, she'll be right mate. Some of the restrictions were over the top and non-sensical, like border closures - done more harm to businesses than providing any sound control. Should just be isolate the "cluster" and protect the vulnerable (ie nursing homes).

I heard a clip in a news broadcast that some woman (green's politician?) suggested that we continue to wear masks even after COVID - that's just not going to happen. I'm in Brisbane and we never had to wear masks. I have to say that I've seen some asians wearing masks in the city going back several years now - not sure where they were from or what's wrong with them.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Was in Japan in the 70's when in the USN. Yokosuka specifically. Wasn't unusual to see Japanese wearing face masks then. Don't know whether it was for pollution protection or what.


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[quote=mauserand9mm Should just be isolate the "cluster" and protect the vulnerable (ie nursing homes).
[/quote]

Isolating the cluster didn't work in Vic.
No one liked the hard shut down that was imposed or wearing masks or the restrictions in movement, the vast majority accepted it and complied, a handful of tin hatters protested.
The measures taken may have seemed harsh, but they worked, period.

We've now gone over 50 days with no communal transmission; unfortunately there have been some businesses gone to the wall, not too many in my local area, most are now doing a roaring Christmas trade.
You have to fix covid before you can fix the economy; people don't spend when confidence is low.

NSW is currently experiencing an outbreak, firmly in the camp of shut the boarders; no one wants to go through the lock downs again.

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Originally Posted by osix

……Isolating the cluster didn't work in Vic…..


Yes it did. It did not spread across Victoria entirely.


Originally Posted by osix

…. most are now doing a roaring Christmas trade. …


Except those whose businesses went to the wall.


Originally Posted by osix

….NSW is currently experiencing an outbreak….


No it’s not but Sydney is. Most of NSW is COVID free.


Mostly the border closures have done more harm (financially) than good – just a knee jerk reaction. Currently we now have border checks – to stop those from the Sydney greater area entering QLD. WA has gone full knee-jerk and not allowing anyone from NSW in at all.

Just think about it – the borders are a line on a map, and this line does not coincide with any covid affected area boundary. Why cripple businesses without any sound logical or medical basis. It should be about logical containment within an area – borders are irrelevant. What if there is an outbreak on a border – totally isolate the entire states affected? Kinda crazy don’t you think?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by steve99
Was in Japan in the 70's when in the USN. Yokosuka specifically. Wasn't unusual to see Japanese wearing face masks then. Don't know whether it was for pollution protection or what.


Maybe that's what it is then. Brisbane doesn't have that much of an air pollution issue though but might just be a habit that they've developed. I'm thinking carbon monoxide might be more of a concern at the underground bus stations - need more than a mask for that though.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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They could have just closed down hot spots. The outbreak in Melbourne did not spread to the rest of the state. Border closures, as with locking down the whole nation, should be a last resort.

Last edited by DBT; 12/21/20.
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Originally Posted by DBT
They could have just closed down hot spots.

They did close down hot spots, 10 post code areas were put on grade 3 restrictions, didn't stop the spread.
It was only after the failure of containing the spread within those hot spots that restrictions were placed on the rest of Melbourne.
The Melbourne restrictions including check points on main arterial roads leading out; even so we had numbskulls who thought the regs didn't apply to them, one truck driver who immediately comes to mind started minor outbreaks in Kilmore and Shepparton.

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This is not just a few businesses going to the wall, this could effect how life is lived for 2 more generations. Also the effect on a locked up global supply chain means up to 250 million 3rd worlders are at risk of starvation next year. Hundreds of millions of units of vaccines and meds are held up, one official said an extra 7000 kids under the age of five are dying a day. Im not in the camp of saying the disease isnt real, but looking at the numbers I wonder if the response was justified.

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Originally Posted by osix

Originally Posted by DBT
They could have just closed down hot spots.

They did close down hot spots, 10 post code areas were put on grade 3 restrictions, didn't stop the spread.
It was only after the failure of containing the spread within those hot spots that restrictions were placed on the rest of Melbourne.
The Melbourne restrictions including check points on main arterial roads leading out; even so we had numbskulls who thought the regs didn't apply to them, one truck driver who immediately comes to mind started minor outbreaks in Kilmore and Shepparton.




My point was that both the first wave and the second wave did not spread throughout the state. That it was contained in Melbourne.


Yes, the truck driver did the wrong thing, but that was quickly suppressed.

Most of the state had no covid cases throughout the pandemic, yet was locked down regardless, causing needless business closures and income loss.

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Originally Posted by osix

Originally Posted by DBT
They could have just closed down hot spots.

They did close down hot spots, 10 post code areas were put on grade 3 restrictions, didn't stop the spread.
It was only after the failure of containing the spread within those hot spots that restrictions were placed on the rest of Melbourne.
The Melbourne restrictions including check points on main arterial roads leading out; even so we had numbskulls who thought the regs didn't apply to them, one truck driver who immediately comes to mind started minor outbreaks in Kilmore and Shepparton.




Didn't stop it because halfwits still travelled around the state.

And as for the mask issue, we were down in Ballarat a couple of weeks ago and didn't bother wearing the damned things...kids up to twelve weren't wearing them, and whilst most adults were there were a large number wearing them over their mouth and not the nose.

Apparently in Victoria kids twelve and under cannot catch covid, seems those who wear the mask on their mouth only cannot either, nor can those who were eating, drinking, or just wandering about chatting.

I am of the opinion it is people control rather than disease control.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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They love power and control, no doubt.

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[/quote]
My point was that both the first wave and the second wave did not spread throughout the state. That it was contained in Melbourne.
Yes, the truck driver did the wrong thing, but that was quickly suppressed.
Most of the state had no covid cases throughout the pandemic, yet was locked down regardless, causing needless business closures and income loss. [/quote]

That's your opinion.
We weren't privy to the modeling that was used nor the advice provided to government; it's easy to pass judgement from a distance without having all the information after the fact.

The lock down and the restrictions worked, period; we've gone 54 days without communal transmission (the single case in Melbourne has come from Sydney)

What we have to consider is how many more businesses would be shut and how much more hardship would Victorians be experiencing if covid was raging through the community because government failed to act decisively ?

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So far so good! Take a deep breath of satisfaction in that things have not been worse than they have. Pray that the good Lord keeps shining his grace on your brothers and sisters. Wish you all well! Good night Look forward to sharing that sun in a few hours. Wish you a good day happy Christmas's eve & a Merry Christmas. God is good & Always God is good! Though from our perspective he works in mysterious ways.

For us on the other side of the pond, The politics Played W this covid - well it is really hard to see Gods hand in this somtimes. Then it is not our place to question, Sorry I am wired that way!


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Originally Posted by osix


My point was that both the first wave and the second wave did not spread throughout the state. That it was contained in Melbourne.
Yes, the truck driver did the wrong thing, but that was quickly suppressed.
Most of the state had no covid cases throughout the pandemic, yet was locked down regardless, causing needless business closures and income loss. [/quote]

That's your opinion.
We weren't privy to the modeling that was used nor the advice provided to government; it's easy to pass judgement from a distance without having all the information after the fact.

The lock down and the restrictions worked, period; we've gone 54 days without communal transmission (the single case in Melbourne has come from Sydney)

What we have to consider is how many more businesses would be shut and how much more hardship would Victorians be experiencing if covid was raging through the community because government failed to act decisively ?



[/quote]

It's not my opinion. It's how things went. The virus was largely under control until the hotel quarantine debacle....and the second wave was by and large contained in Melbourne. The truck driver incident was quickly under control. That is basically how it went. There was no need to lock down the entire state, or nation, which was an over the top reaction that caused more harm than good.

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osix,

You're not understanding it. Unless an entire state was infected (didn't happen), hard border closures are irrelevant and economically damaging. The federal government health advisors didn't recommend border closures. The state governments are always in some sort of childish competition with each other - Anna "covid shamed" the southern states for their outbreaks to make herself look better, and it paid off because a majority of scared sheep fell for it and voted her back in (the handling of covid was a large consideration). She made herself look better by using the unfortunate events of others.

We've been lucky here in QLD because we did have a few people with covid returning from the southern states but they were found and isolated (two young women were fined in court for their lies about their whereabouts down south). Sounds like border fail, local isolation win to me.

Some people are always going to try and get around the system irrespective of what the rules are. Punishing a majority to catch a minority is just plain wrong.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by osix

……Isolating the cluster didn't work in Vic…..


Yes it did. It did not spread across Victoria entirely.


Originally Posted by osix

…. most are now doing a roaring Christmas trade. …


Except those whose businesses went to the wall.


Originally Posted by osix

….NSW is currently experiencing an outbreak….


No it’s not but Sydney is. Most of NSW is COVID free.


Mostly the border closures have done more harm (financially) than good – just a knee jerk reaction. Currently we now have border checks – to stop those from the Sydney greater area entering QLD. WA has gone full knee-jerk and not allowing anyone from NSW in at all.

Just think about it – the borders are a line on a map, and this line does not coincide with any covid affected area boundary. Why cripple businesses without any sound logical or medical basis. It should be about logical containment within an area – borders are irrelevant. What if there is an outbreak on a border – totally isolate the entire states affected? Kinda crazy don’t you think?



My 2 cents. Unfortunately I am slightly informed on the topic due to my work.
Everything is just a line on a map. Suburbs, Cities and States. We live in a world of highly mobile populations so a State border is as good as anywhere to draw the line.

NSW has taken a completely different stance on dealing with COVID than any other State. Their model has been suppression - accepting community transmission will occur and then using contact tracing and other measures. The other States have taken a different approach of eradication.

So the reason States take a different approach - NT, WA and QLD have large indigenous populations. COVID is known to be extremely bad in those communities due to the bad health levels. The USA had a massive death rate in a native Indian community early in the piece.
Tassie has extremely low ICU bed to population numbers.

Vic showed what happens when you have poorly done community transmission. They did it tough and got it back through a really tough journey (respect to those who lived through that).

These days all COVID outbreaks are linked to international arrivals - . It’s the greatest risk, all outbreaks are directly linked to failures in the international quarantine programs. The FEDS just wipe their hands of it and say its a State problem. The full cost of the hotel quarantine program will not be known for a long time.
Anyway IMHO if Gladys wanted to actually put in some serious restrictions and controls in NSW then we would not have to close State borders as the safeguard, it would keep the rest of the country open.

PS I certainly did not vote for the member for Inala or her party.

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To be quite honest, I'm not sure how the vaccine arrangements are being unrolled over here - for the people that I associate with there is no real concern over needing to get it, or even getting Covid for that matter. The situation is different over here since we've largely squashed the spread of it, but not without damages (political mismanagement). Personally I'll probably wait a year or two before I consider getting the vaccine - let it get tested and proven first. I suspect that it may get rolled up into the flu vaccine before I get it anyway. If I were 20 years older I'd probably be thinking differently, but can only speculate.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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I thought it time for another covid winge.

Here in Brisbane recently a hotel cleaner/worker contracted the new highly contageous version of covid from quarantining overseas travellers, and visited several shopping centres and retail outlets before she discovered she had the virus. Jeanette ordered a lockdown for Brisbane and surrounding areas. From testing it was discovered that the highly contageous new version had only managed to be passed on from the hotel worker to her partner.

The "kicker" is that Jeanette is claiming the shutdown as a success when in fact it had nothing to do with it - the covid hadn't community spread in the first place. Admittedly if it had spread, the shutdown probably would have helped, but claiming victory where there is none, is just plain wrong.

An honest response would have been to say that the shutdown was a precaution but subsequently found to not provide any benefit, but then I guess that might open some sort of floodgate of the border shutdowns being unnecessary - I think they are still claiming victory over that to avoid any responsibility for the subsequent unnecessary financial damage caused.

Last edited by mauserand9mm; 01/16/21.

Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Article sounds like someone is trying to sell the "fact" that the australian gov'ts response has been spot on. Quite the sales pitch, whether it is accurate or not!

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For me, Suppose I am just hoping to gain an understanding of the lesser of the evils in dealing w Covid-19. What is worse experiencing setbacks with existing business & other activities.

Or is it worse to allow the loss of significant percentage of your population that are dealing with underlying conditions in the name of keeping the economy rolling. The pain experienced with the high Covid numbers goes well beyond the increase in fatalities. Expect the long haulers is quite real to boot & only time will tell how extensive this burden will be on individuals & the health care system.


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Regardless of all the opinions of border closures and loss of business, one of the great successes was the contact tracing that was put in place. It allowed the Government to track down anyone who infected others in a public place, like a restaurant. Some of the border closures were over the top, but stopping international flights coming in was great even though the Chinese got their pasties in a wad over that. Even though they stated the who bloody thing. I think that basically being an Island Nation was also a big help, plus our relatively small population; around 25 million in a country roughly the size of the Continental US.

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I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this was already asked but didn't Australia have a pretty strict quarantine requirement for people traveling from international locations?



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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
Regardless of all the opinions of border closures and loss of business, one of the great successes was the contact tracing that was put in place. It allowed the Government to track down anyone who infected others in a public place, like a restaurant. Some of the border closures were over the top, but stopping international flights coming in was great even though the Chinese got their pasties in a wad over that. Even though they stated the who bloody thing. I think that basically being an Island Nation was also a big help, plus our relatively small population; around 25 million in a country roughly the size of the Continental US.



Are there many China appeasers now in Australia? Id be pretty nervous about China if I was an Aussie now. They're all over South America, Africa raping all of the natural resources.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this was already asked but didn't Australia have a pretty strict quarantine requirement for people traveling from international locations?


Yes and still do. Our source of new covid cases is from overseas since we've largely stopped breeding it over here aka community transmission.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by Hunterapp

From this Americans view point Australia has done a fairly good job mitigating the spread of Covid-19. Suppose I am curious how opinion varies throughout Australia, What has been done well & what would you do different?

For one reason or another your results of inhibiting the spread seems to be admirable from the outside looking in. Do the Australian people feel they are doing to much or to little for the most part. please share what you feel is working well in terms of slowing the spread of covid 19 in Australia.

Or do they count only the actual covid cases....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by smokepole
I didn't read the whole thread so apologies if this was already asked but didn't Australia have a pretty strict quarantine requirement for people traveling from international locations?


Yes and still do. Our source of new covid cases is from overseas since we've largely stopped breeding it over here aka community transmission.


I should have added that there's talk of shifting the overseas arrivals to more remote quarantining locations because where covid has gotten into the community it has been often due the hotel workers becoming infected and then sharing it. The existing hotels are based in high density population areas.

I'm in Brisbane and there is a relatively new large airport at Toowoomba (2hrs drive west of Brisbane) where they were looking to build quarantining quarters. Sounds logical, maybe not so much to the Toowoombians.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Here we go again - a 3 day shutdown in Brisbane and surrounds due to an outbreak. We've been importing covid from overseas via overseas travellers and a local doctor treating these covid patients has passed it on now to the community.

You'd think that there would be extra precautions around this, but whatever they have in place clearly didn't work. The doctor wasn't found to be at fault for doing anything wrong, but now Anna and Jeanette are blaming the community spread on the public becoming too complacent, probably to prep us for the shutdown punishment.

Sounds more like a fault with the top end rules that allowed this to occur. Anyone else that comes in contact with a covid case has to isolate for 14 days, but doctors treating covid patients appear to have more freedom to roam the community.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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The whole state effected because of a handful of cases in Brisbane, what is the matter with the Clowns in charge? Are they that dense?
Can they not see the harm they are causing?

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Well they seem to be wising up - they seem to realise now that maybe it wasn't a good idea to let those unvaccinated doctors and nurses who treat covid patients wander around the community. Sounds like common sense to everybody else. Of course that still relies on the vaccination being 100% effective.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
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That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Common sense seems to be in short supply for those in the Political Class....

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Internationally....

Take our "President".

Please.

We will throw in his henchmen , accomplices, ands Chinese financiers as well.

Oh, PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE!

Last edited by las; 04/02/21.

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I'm not sure about that - our parliament building has a bit of a stairway up into it


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
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That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Stairs can be a problem for some....

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Originally Posted by las
Internationally....

Take our "President".

Please.

We will throw in his henchmen , accomplices, ands Chinese financiers as well.

Oh, PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE!

Sorry mate, but we have enough dickhead politicians and others. Importing more is counter productive. Dangerous Dan the Emperor of Victoria likes the Chinese, and was hugely offended when our Prime Minister told him the Chinese "Belt and Road Initiative" was a non starter.

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The strategy so far seems to be wiping out our kids futures to save a few% of old folk. Over a disease that even full transmission has less chance of killing a westerner than obesity. About 2 billion folks in the world exist in a full transmission environment - no power or house plumbing means they commune publicly for food, to draw water or even take a dump. This thing should have killed 20-60 million of them the first year and almost 100 million now. To date its barely beating TB for global deaths.

I dont try to convince the average suburban drone anymore on math even a 7th grader should understand. People exchanged their brains for smartphones about 10 years ago and are obviously happy with the deal. One thing we can all agree on is economic damage. Governments keep talking recoveries but you dont get to just shut down economies for a year or two without paying a tax and inflation bill for a generation or two . Its how it works.

I work in international logistics and an example is freighting a sea container between two countries went from $600 to $6000 in just 18 months. Thats 1000% .Raw materials prices are also climbing fast. . These costs will be passed on to consumers soon . If you are paying off loans or your kids are, be quick.

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World Scale Silliness.

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Our politicians don't care about long term financial issues because they have a guaranteeed pension and perks for their retirement - no future politician will ever change that.

If the party is changed at the next election, then that just opens up a blame game that they all play along with to try and make themselves look good.

Was it Sweden or Denmark that did a holistic assessment of the strategy of how to address covid and were/are criticized for it due to lack of heavy lockdowns?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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The reaction seems way out of proportion to the threat. It's like no death is acceptable if it's Covid, yet we routinely accept a thousand or more road deaths as a consequence of our road use. A double standard, holier than thou attitude by Rulers/officials who pretend to care for our welfare.....never mind the toll of suicide rate, failing businesses, lost incomes, education, diminished opportunities, etc....

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Originally Posted by DBT
The reaction seems way out of proportion to the threat. It's like no death is acceptable if it's Covid, yet we routinely accept a thousand or more road deaths as a consequence of our road use. A double standard, holier than thou attitude by Rulers/officials who pretend to care for our welfare.....never mind the toll of suicide rate, failing businesses, lost incomes, education, diminished opportunities, etc....




Seems reasonable to surmise that there is more afoot here.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by DBT
The reaction seems way out of proportion to the threat. It's like no death is acceptable if it's Covid, yet we routinely accept a thousand or more road deaths as a consequence of our road use. A double standard, holier than thou attitude by Rulers/officials who pretend to care for our welfare.....never mind the toll of suicide rate, failing businesses, lost incomes, education, diminished opportunities, etc....




Seems reasonable to surmise that there is more afoot here.


Or pandering to what they interpret as being good for the bulk of the flock and keeping their popularity up. Some time ago last year there was a survey of what QLDers thought of Anna's approach with her border closures, and a majority approved. Not sure how good a survey this was but maybe we do have a lot of djckheads up here.

Either way, it shows that the politicians don't give a rats arse about the future state of affairs of their country even though this is their job. Doesn't affect their pension though - good for them.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm


Or pandering to what they interpret as being good for the bulk of the flock and keeping their popularity up. Some time ago last year there was a survey of what QLDers thought of Anna's approach with her border closures, and a majority approved. Not sure how good a survey this was but maybe we do have a lot of djckheads up here.

Either way, it shows that the politicians don't give a rats arse about the future state of affairs of their country even though this is their job. Doesn't affect their pension though - good for them.


At this point I just accept it as a given that politicians are popularist whores who care not one whit for anything but their own advancement.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by Hunterapp

From this Americans view point Australia has done a fairly good job mitigating the spread of Covid-19. Suppose I am curious how opinion varies throughout Australia, What has been done well & what would you do different?

For one reason or another your results of inhibiting the spread seems to be admirable from the outside looking in. Do the Australian people feel they are doing to much or to little for the most part. please share what you feel is working well in terms of slowing the spread of covid 19 in Australia.


The unfortunate truth is that flattening the curve, even to near zero, does not remove any people from thee curve. It does not prevent infection - it delays it. Anybody that can critically read a graph can see that case rates go up sooner in places with no restrictions, but those restricted areas eventually follow the same trend. That's why Florida and Texas spiked early and California, New York and Illinois spiked later.



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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy


The unfortunate truth is that flattening the curve, even to near zero, does not remove any people from thee curve. It does not prevent infection - it delays it. Anybody that can critically read a graph can see that case rates go up sooner in places with no restrictions, but those restricted areas eventually follow the same trend. That's why Florida and Texas spiked early and California, New York and Illinois spiked later.



We are aware of that...but 2000 people won't fit in our local hospital at the same time.


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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
[quote=Hunterapp]

. Anybody that can critically read a graph can see that case rates go up sooner in places with no restrictions, but those restricted areas eventually follow the same trend. That's why Florida and Texas spiked early and California, New York and Illinois spiked later.


anyone that can read a graph would see no correlation between restrictions to infections to deaths anywhere in the world. Most of the 3rd world achieved limited restrictions, being as I mentioned they either cant, or massive swatches of their populations dont listen to their governments anyway. If Covid was doing what it was supposed to do we should have 100 million bodies by now. What do we have? Barely more deaths than global diaorhea and Tuberculosis.

There is no correlation even in the 1st world and their vastly different restriction tactics. The fact it hits America and just some 1st world countries hard leads me to believe the viruses special skill is it can smell money. It apparently likes US dollars , british pounds and possibly talian cooking the most.

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Great observation. The fact millions of our crowded cities with millions go homeless living in unsanitary conditions with severe health issues suffered no surge in cases, or third world countries suffered no huge uptick in deaths says it al


Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
[quote=Hunterapp]

. Anybody that can critically read a graph can see that case rates go up sooner in places with no restrictions, but those restricted areas eventually follow the same trend. That's why Florida and Texas spiked early and California, New York and Illinois spiked later.


anyone that can read a graph would see no correlation between restrictions to infections to deaths anywhere in the world. Most of the 3rd world achieved limited restrictions, being as I mentioned they either cant, or massive swatches of their populations dont listen to their governments anyway. If Covid was doing what it was supposed to do we should have 100 million bodies by now. What do we have? Barely more deaths than global diaorhea and Tuberculosis.

There is no correlation even in the 1st world and their vastly different restriction tactics. The fact it hits America and just some 1st world countries hard leads me to believe the viruses special skill is it can smell money. It apparently likes US dollars , british pounds and possibly talian cooking the most.

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Originally Posted by ribka
Great observation. The fact millions of our crowded cities with millions go homeless living in unsanitary conditions with severe health issues suffered no surge in cases, or third world countries suffered no huge uptick in deaths says it al


I think there is another explanation .. consider this and tell me what you think:

Most of the people who die in the use have serious comorbidity factors, agreed? Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure .. etc. Most employed, reasonably affluent people in the US have access to medical insurance, medications, etc. In other words, their conditions, which become the underlying conditions for COVID deaths, are treated / managed fairly effectively. However, the homeless lack treatment for those conditions. Those inclined to die from the conditions already have done so. In other words, the still-living homeless population does not have the comorbidity factors the rest of the population has to any significant degree thus they are less susceptible to death from COVID.

Just my best guess at the moment. It's the only explanation that I can come up with that makes medical sense and doesn't require buying into any weird ass conspiracy theories.

I can't otherwise see how they do all the things wrong that they are indeed doing without dying because COVID is real and is potentially deadly. The only other rational alternative is that COVID death among the homeless is simply grossly under-reported.

Tom


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Here be dragons ...
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I'm not sure the statistics are all there or properly represented, or rather the age demographics across the rich/poor spectrum. It sounds like otherwise that someone would be better off homeless in the streets rather than in a nursing home as far as the risk of dying of covid is concerned.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by ribka
Great observation. The fact millions of our crowded cities with millions go homeless living in unsanitary conditions with severe health issues suffered no surge in cases, or third world countries suffered no huge uptick in deaths says it al


I think there is another explanation .. consider this and tell me what you think:

Most of the people who die in the use have serious comorbidity factors, agreed? Diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure .. etc. Most employed, reasonably affluent people in the US have access to medical insurance, medications, etc. In other words, their conditions, which become the underlying conditions for COVID deaths, are treated / managed fairly effectively. However, the homeless lack treatment for those conditions. Those inclined to die from the conditions already have done so. In other words, the still-living homeless population does not have the comorbidity factors the rest of the population has to any significant degree thus they are less susceptible to death from COVID.

Just my best guess at the moment. It's the only explanation that I can come up with that makes medical sense and doesn't require buying into any weird ass conspiracy theories.

I can't otherwise see how they do all the things wrong that they are indeed doing without dying because COVID is real and is potentially deadly. The only other rational alternative is that COVID death among the homeless is simply grossly under-reported.

Tom


I think there is a lot of truth in that. Something similar in principle .... if 100 men age 65 who have never smoked and 100 men age 65 who have smoked all their life and both groups do not have any cardiovascular issues. after 5 years angina, heart attacks and strokes are far more common in the non smoker group. Reason being the smokers who were predisposed to cardiovascular problems had them before they were 65, not so the no smokers.

Also the transmission of the virus is far less outdoors.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
I'm not sure the statistics are all there or properly represented, or rather the age demographics across the rich/poor spectrum. It sounds like otherwise that someone would be better off homeless in the streets rather than in a nursing home as far as the risk of dying of covid is concerned.



They tried a lot of excuses to explain why 70% of homo sapiens, being those below the poverty line, in the most cramped conditions and we are talking up to 8 families per 1/4 acre( show me how to distance there...) seemed barely effected.

Better immunities of poor folk was one excuse: about the most illogical comment since why do Africa, India, South America, and asia have the most endemic illnesses and outbreaks if they have better immunity... Not to mention, for 1st worlders who have never gone without good food , being half starved and drinking water polluted with faecal matter , doesnt exactlly help your immunity, it shoots it to peices.

Then there was cold climate vs hot climate- disproved as soon as anyone with an 8th grade level of geography considers the seasons rotated around, and also a lot of the 3rd world, gets damned cold.

Then it was 'poor reporting in the 3rd world govermments'- true. But there are also several thousand reporting centres, UN, WHO, western managed hospitals, NGO's, international observers, teaching hospitals and disaster relief camps all through the 2nd and 3rd world, who report things pretty accurately. Especially since 100,000 sick people can wipe out their resources in about 48 hours. Now the data is in, no single reporting region including those with no lockdowns or restrictions has come close to 3% or even .5% kill rate.

then we have india with its 3000 a day death toll, meanwhile India loses 27,000 a day to other causes. They lose 1400 just to poor kidney treatments. Maybe we need to stop the world next to help Indians take a leak ?

A supervirus that cant hit full projections in any region, climate, life expectancy group, DNA group, immunity level, restricted or full transmission area in the whole world in two years and a million excuses why.

I have never seen a pandemic need so much understanding and patience because it cant perform . Its like the erectile disfunction of viruses. laugh




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Yeah, not all that lethal but did cause hospital overload in places that got caught out by it. Delta is no more lethal but more transmissible. Things could change though I suppose.

Our homegrown Hendra virus was a stud in comparison - 57% lethality but very hard to catch.

There is something about increased immunity due to exposure to some gastro style bugs. I had a couple of Malaysian mates who used to go back to Kuala Lumpar every year. They were born there and were used to drinking the water without ill effect, but when ever they went back they got the chronic shits for the first few days until they got used to the water again. They preferred the shits routine rather than try and not drink the water (crazy mother fuckers)


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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It's weird how ithe Chinese covid virus seems more lethal in first world white European countries with superioir healthcare and living conditions.


Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
I'm not sure the statistics are all there or properly represented, or rather the age demographics across the rich/poor spectrum. It sounds like otherwise that someone would be better off homeless in the streets rather than in a nursing home as far as the risk of dying of covid is concerned.



They tried a lot of excuses to explain why 70% of homo sapiens, being those below the poverty line, in the most cramped conditions and we are talking up to 8 families per 1/4 acre( show me how to distance there...) seemed barely effected.

Better immunities of poor folk was one excuse: about the most illogical comment since why do Africa, India, South America, and asia have the most endemic illnesses and outbreaks if they have better immunity... Not to mention, for 1st worlders who have never gone without good food , being half starved and drinking water polluted with faecal matter , doesnt exactlly help your immunity, it shoots it to peices.

Then there was cold climate vs hot climate- disproved as soon as anyone with an 8th grade level of geography considers the seasons rotated around, and also a lot of the 3rd world, gets damned cold.

Then it was 'poor reporting in the 3rd world govermments'- true. But there are also several thousand reporting centres, UN, WHO, western managed hospitals, NGO's, international observers, teaching hospitals and disaster relief camps all through the 2nd and 3rd world, who report things pretty accurately. Especially since 100,000 sick people can wipe out their resources in about 48 hours. Now the data is in, no single reporting region including those with no lockdowns or restrictions has come close to 3% or even .5% kill rate.

then we have india with its 3000 a day death toll, meanwhile India loses 27,000 a day to other causes. They lose 1400 just to poor kidney treatments. Maybe we need to stop the world next to help Indians take a leak ?

A supervirus that cant hit full projections in any region, climate, life expectancy group, DNA group, immunity level, restricted or full transmission area in the whole world in two years and a million excuses why.

I have never seen a pandemic need so much understanding and patience because it cant perform . Its like the erectile disfunction of viruses. laugh




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Boy the facism runs deep in Australia

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Already posted in the Hunters Campfire forum - Dr Kerry Chant, Chief Health Officer for NSW, is a fruitcake.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Yeah, not all that lethal but did cause hospital overload in places that got caught out by it. Delta is no more lethal but more transmissible. Things could change though I suppose.

Our homegrown Hendra virus was a stud in comparison - 57% lethality but very hard to catch.

There is something about increased immunity due to exposure to some gastro style bugs. I had a couple of Malaysian mates who used to go back to Kuala Lumpar every year. They were born there and were used to drinking the water without ill effect, but when ever they went back they got the chronic shits for the first few days until they got used to the water again. They preferred the shits routine rather than try and not drink the water (crazy mother fuckers)


gastro illnesses are actually big killers in those countries. The idea 3rd worlders have some special defence to disease is heavily outweighed their high density living, low nutrition, high wormloads and lack of medical services. Its why they die more often, from more things than us.


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I'm getting a bit tired of Australians rubbishing our leaders on a US based forum. You mob are entitled to your opinions but if you want to impress the other people on this forum by bashing our country, I'd suggest you keep it in your pants.
This is, by the way supposed to be a Firearms forum, and if you don't like what our government is doing, how about you complain to them rather than airing your opinions here. Sure there have been mistakes made, but this virus is a new one for all of us. If you decided a vaccine wasn't for you then don't complain when you get Covid and can't breath any more. But if you want to be critical of how the Government, both State and Federal are handling it, write them a letter.

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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
I'm getting a bit tired of Australians rubbishing our leaders on a US based forum. You mob are entitled to your opinions but if you want to impress the other people on this forum by bashing our country, I'd suggest you keep it in your pants.
This is, by the way supposed to be a Firearms forum, and if you don't like what our government is doing, how about you complain to them rather than airing your opinions here. Sure there have been mistakes made, but this virus is a new one for all of us. If you decided a vaccine wasn't for you then don't complain when you get Covid and can't breath any more. But if you want to be critical of how the Government, both State and Federal are handling it, write them a letter.


It's a public forum and the talk commonly goes beyond firearms.

I think you'll find that we bash you guys because you bash us first and you guys always seem to be getting our facts wrong but won't listen to the truth we provide.

Anybody complaining to a government is pissing in the wind - elections are supposed to be the best way out but that doesn't always work. Seems to be a common theme around the world.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
I'm getting a bit tired of Australians rubbishing our leaders on a US based forum. You mob are entitled to your opinions but if you want to impress the other people on this forum by bashing our country, I'd suggest you keep it in your pants.
This is, by the way supposed to be a Firearms forum, and if you don't like what our government is doing, how about you complain to them rather than airing your opinions here. Sure there have been mistakes made, but this virus is a new one for all of us. If you decided a vaccine wasn't for you then don't complain when you get Covid and can't breath any more. But if you want to be critical of how the Government, both State and Federal are handling it, write them a letter.


But Hunters Campfire is by far and away the most active site on 24 Hour. The rest are not even close.

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[b][/b]
Originally Posted by triplecanopy
I'm getting a bit tired of Australians rubbishing our leaders on a US based forum. You mob are entitled to your opinions but if you want to impress the other people on this forum by bashing our country, I'd suggest you keep it in your pants.
This is, by the way supposed to be a Firearms forum, and if you don't like what our government is doing, how about you complain to them rather than airing your opinions here. Sure there have been mistakes made, but this virus is a new one for all of us. If you decided a vaccine wasn't for you then don't complain when you get Covid and can't breath any more. But if you want to be critical of how the Government, both State and Federal are handling it, write them a letter.




censoring a free exchange of ideas?





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I'm not censoring anything, but Australia has done extremely well as far as managing this virus. If criticism is required, how about you level it at the bloody Chinese, that's where it came from. Even Donald Trump referred to it as the Chinese virus. Nobody can deny that people have lost money and business has suffered with this, but governments throughout the world have had to deal with something that was basically unknown territory. Bashing politicians is fair enough, it's a national pastime, but I believe we have a pretty good leader in Morrison, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

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I'm Australian by the way, and off topic, we're getting some Nuclear subs from the USA, and I'm happy about that.

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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
I'm not censoring anything, but Australia has done extremely well as far as managing this virus. If criticism is required, how about you level it at the bloody Chinese, that's where it came from. Even Donald Trump referred to it as the Chinese virus. Nobody can deny that people have lost money and business has suffered with this, but governments throughout the world have had to deal with something that was basically unknown territory. Bashing politicians is fair enough, it's a national pastime, but I believe we have a pretty good leader in Morrison, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.



(Didn't realise that you are aussie.)

Debatable over the success of the shutdowns - covid deaths are not the only factor. Even with vaccinations, it may just be delaying the inevitable except with the additional expense of economic damage (as a country and at individual levels, although not uniform across the board) and consequential deaths from other means. The intention was initially to put the brakes on to avoid hospital overload and try and save as many as possible but otherwise cop the deaths - it's still a highly survivable disease. I think survival from hospital treatment was a low percent outcome anyway.

We won't really know what comes out of the wash until the documentary is released in the coming years - maybe next decade?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
Nobody can deny that people have lost money and business has suffered with this, but governments throughout the world have had to deal with something that was basically unknown territory. .


It became known territory 3 months in, ample time for a virus to do the rounds, and about when they worked out the original death projections were off by a factor of ten.

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I came across this on YouTube. It looks like Norway and Singapore have their heads screwed on better than others - opening up with no mandatory vaccinations (applies to employment contracts too?), no vaccine passports (to force non-mandatory vaccinations), no masks, no social distancing/crowd limits and getting back to normal. They have had a period of voluntary vaccination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ItkYhFiGBI


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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I'm only interested in the government over-reach mitigation policy.

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Our beloved Anna is seeking to cause more pain for the border businesses and state in general. Seems like she wants us to have a happy Christmas at home only.

No commitment to opening the border and more and more demands and excuses now too. Target was 80% population vaccination, including children whom her health minister didn't want jabbed early on nor is currently advised to, but I doubt that'll be the case now. Probablly include dogs, cats and goldfish next.

Now she wants additional funding from the federal government for hospitals before opening up. Way too late to be telling us now that the health system won't cope - just an eleventh hour money grab at the expense of further business destruction. I guess she must've been distracted by the olympics that she was forced to go to. Stupid cow.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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A really stupid cow. Should not have been voted in.

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It's interesting that Labor has ruled QLD state elections but with Federal elections Labor has very few seats. Maybe a case of how the electoral boundaries are for Federal and state elections.

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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
It's interesting that Labor has ruled QLD state elections but with Federal elections Labor has very few seats. Maybe a case of how the electoral boundaries are for Federal and state elections.



Because most of us like to keep liberal and labor in competition, neither should be in charge of everything.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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It's like a three ring circus, clowns, monkeys and all.....

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Originally Posted by DBT
It's like a three ring circus, clowns, monkeys and all.....


Yeah, but only clowns and monkeys, and I think that might be unfairly derogatory of monkeys.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Sheeple gonna sheep. Stop being such a receptive sod and imagine Liberty. The whole world is watching the government thuggery on display in Oz. The impotent acquiescence by the population leaves many of us dumbfounded and frankly heartbroken that such a virile and hardy people could be so easily cornered, captured and layed low. By a virus that is 99.979% survivable. Thank God your not up against something as dangerous as tooth decay or foot fungus or you would be behind a fence with a plastic tag in your ear. Good Christ Australia get a pair.

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It's a bit more complicated than "getting a pair."

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Is it? There is a boot descending to crush your neck and the essential spirit of your people, your nation. What choice do you have? They are already building “Accommodation Centres.” WTF do you think they are for? The hotels full? With what travelers? What wholesome, vital function do you think they serve. Stop being so accommodating in your erasure.

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No mask mandates in the US? No pressure to be vaccinated? Everyone willing to take up arms and start shooting at the mere hint of a threat to freedom in the US? A simple black and white world? Really?

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Most states have given up their mask mandates here, and even when they were more common. The police weren’t arresting mothers in front of their children for failure to bow low. At the height of the hysteria and mandates probably only 60-70% of shoppers wore masks, mandate or no. We could always and still can cross state lines at our leisure and wonder as far from our homes as pleased us.
What pressure do vaccines provide. Just decide if you want to be experimented on or not. Pretty simple. It as hard as you want it to be.
Nobody said anything about shooting. Just try the word No. Compliance requires your nodding consent. Do you really see yourselves as subjects?
Look around you. Australia is within a nick of falling to perpetual tyranny. Your police have descended into jackals. Beating, pepper spraying and firing rubber bullets at those petitioners daring to ask for some freedom back. You lot are in deep dark [bleep]. Get your boots on

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Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Most states have given up their mask mandates here, and even when they were more common. The police weren’t arresting mothers in front of their children for failure to bow low. At the height of the hysteria and mandates probably only 60-70% of shoppers wore masks, mandate or no. We could always and still can cross state lines at our leisure and wonder as far from our homes as pleased us.
What pressure do vaccines provide. Just decide if you want to be experimented on or not. Pretty simple. It as hard as you want it to be.
Nobody said anything about shooting. Just try the word No. Compliance requires your nodding consent. Do you really see yourselves as subjects?
Look around you. Australia is within a nick of falling to perpetual tyranny. Your police have descended into jackals. Beating, pepper spraying and firing rubber bullets at those petitioners daring to ask for some freedom back. You lot are in deep dark [bleep]. Get your boots on



Judging by what is going on in your country in general, probably best that you focus your concerns and efforts there, if you can.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Most states have given up their mask mandates here, and even when they were more common. The police weren’t arresting mothers in front of their children for failure to bow low. At the height of the hysteria and mandates probably only 60-70% of shoppers wore masks, mandate or no. We could always and still can cross state lines at our leisure and wonder as far from our homes as pleased us.
What pressure do vaccines provide. Just decide if you want to be experimented on or not. Pretty simple. It as hard as you want it to be.
Nobody said anything about shooting. Just try the word No. Compliance requires your nodding consent. Do you really see yourselves as subjects?
Look around you. Australia is within a nick of falling to perpetual tyranny. Your police have descended into jackals. Beating, pepper spraying and firing rubber bullets at those petitioners daring to ask for some freedom back. You lot are in deep dark [bleep]. Get your boots on


To get an accurate picture of the situation in Australia, you need to be here. Do not rely on what you see on TV.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Most states have given up their mask mandates here, and even when they were more common. The police weren’t arresting mothers in front of their children for failure to bow low. At the height of the hysteria and mandates probably only 60-70% of shoppers wore masks, mandate or no. We could always and still can cross state lines at our leisure and wonder as far from our homes as pleased us.
What pressure do vaccines provide. Just decide if you want to be experimented on or not. Pretty simple. It as hard as you want it to be.
Nobody said anything about shooting. Just try the word No. Compliance requires your nodding consent. Do you really see yourselves as subjects?
Look around you. Australia is within a nick of falling to perpetual tyranny. Your police have descended into jackals. Beating, pepper spraying and firing rubber bullets at those petitioners daring to ask for some freedom back. You lot are in deep dark [bleep]. Get your boots on



Judging by what is going on in your country in general, probably best that you focus your concerns and efforts there, if you can.


It seems to be the speck, log in the eye syndrome in action.

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Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Sheeple gonna sheep. Stop being such a receptive sod and imagine Liberty. The whole world is watching the government thuggery on display in Oz. The impotent acquiescence by the population leaves many of us dumbfounded and frankly heartbroken that such a virile and hardy people could be so easily cornered, captured and layed low. By a virus that is 99.979% survivable. Thank God your not up against something as dangerous as tooth decay or foot fungus or you would be behind a fence with a plastic tag in your ear. Good Christ Australia get a pair.


Okay tough guy, since your the expert in resistance, lets see you lead by example.

Let me see you personally break a small law like posting a vid of yourself shortening a barrel or adding a silencer without a federal stamp.

The US bent over to the gun control acts of the 1930's without a whimper. Uncle sam used Al capones antics to get your law abiding folks to pay money and bend the knee for the next 80 years. I dont recall seeing any organised resistance, mass demonstrations, storming city hall to reverse those laws..






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Perhaps your mistaking numbnuttery for Liberty. You lot have been under the longest most draconian lockdown of any nation on Earth. And all you can come up with is to beggar someone to put their knob in a vice for inspiration?
Stay bleating on your knees waiting for the rap on the door and listen to the geckering of your children. Cause that’s what’s coming. Australia is the test case for what the Western mind can absorb. Sop it up then if that’s your pleasure.

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Most states have given up their mask mandates here, and even when they were more common. The police weren’t arresting mothers in front of their children for failure to bow low. At the height of the hysteria and mandates probably only 60-70% of shoppers wore masks, mandate or no. We could always and still can cross state lines at our leisure and wonder as far from our homes as pleased us.
What pressure do vaccines provide. Just decide if you want to be experimented on or not. Pretty simple. It as hard as you want it to be.
Nobody said anything about shooting. Just try the word No. Compliance requires your nodding consent. Do you really see yourselves as subjects?
Look around you. Australia is within a nick of falling to perpetual tyranny. Your police have descended into jackals. Beating, pepper spraying and firing rubber bullets at those petitioners daring to ask for some freedom back. You lot are in deep dark [bleep]. Get your boots on



Judging by what is going on in your country in general, probably best that you focus your concerns and efforts there, if you can.


It seems to be the speck, log in the eye syndrome in action.



So what’s it really like there in Aus? What we see on TV is kids getting handcuffed for hanging out on the beach at night, grown men turned in by their neighbors and arrested when they return home from an evening drive for fresh air, and politicians talking of a new world order. Is it really not that bad? I hope for your sake that it’s not.

Here’s what we’re up to in the USA on a Saturday night:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

That was night before last. 106,000+ in attendance. Only masks being worn were by the two CBS sideline reporters.

Point is, the air is fine. Get a shot and come on out. Or don’t get a shot and come on out.

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An exception is not the rule. The media tends to love a story, so they select accordingly. Like you selecting an event that doesn't really represent the whole US situation during the Covid period.

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DBT,

Glad to hear the reports are overblown and y’all are still livin’ free.

I selected an event that represents the way one can live his life in this country today if he so chooses. My kid was there and sent me that pic. I was offered tickets but didn’t go because I thought it would be a lousy game (turned out to be a good one.)

I’d say without a doubt that there was coronavirus in that stadium, but the choice to go or not belonged to each one of those people.

One thing for sure is no one was knocking on any of those 106,000 people’s doors to make sure they were home on a Saturday night.

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Originally Posted by DBT
An exception is not the rule. The media tends to love a story, so they select accordingly. Like you selecting an event that doesn't really represent the whole US situation during the Covid period.



My area in Idaho has never shut down businesses, churches, gyms restaurants bars and no masks since covid began and schools stayed open since March 2020

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Originally Posted by Walker6
DBT,

Glad to hear the reports are overblown and y’all are still livin’ free.

I selected an event that represents the way one can live his life in this country today if he so chooses. My kid was there and sent me that pic. I was offered tickets but didn’t go because I thought it would be a lousy game (turned out to be a good one.)

I’d say without a doubt that there was coronavirus in that stadium, but the choice to go or not belonged to each one of those people.

One thing for sure is no one was knocking on any of those 106,000 people’s doors to make sure they were home on a Saturday night.




Here's a couple of video links that I posted (26th September) just after the protests in Melbourne. Brisbane and Perth were not locked down like Melbourne was. The Brisbane event was called "Riverfire" and is an annual event comprised of displays by the air force in the afternoon and fireworks at night. I posted the afternoon part to show the spectators.

Originally Posted by mauserand9mm






Here’s some videos taken yesterday and today from both Brisbane (north of Melbourne) and Perth (west of Melbourne).


Yesterday’s flyover in the afternoon before the fireworks in the evening (Brisbane):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjTx7NxIO3w


Pre AFL Grand Final in Perth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCCmjkdWB-A



Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by DBT
An exception is not the rule. The media tends to love a story, so they select accordingly. Like you selecting an event that doesn't really represent the whole US situation during the Covid period.



My area in Idaho has never shut down businesses, churches, gyms restaurants bars and no masks since covid began and schools stayed open since March 2020


How bad did the hospital situation get there? I mean that was the original intention to accept the influx of patients but flatten the curve to prevent the hospital system being overwhelmed. Over here "flatten the curve" became "zero covid" because it looked like they could do that, but only while ignoring all other social and economic consequential damages.

It is safe to assume that our state politicians are largely all idiots and try to out-idiot each other.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by ribka
Originally Posted by DBT
An exception is not the rule. The media tends to love a story, so they select accordingly. Like you selecting an event that doesn't really represent the whole US situation during the Covid period.



My area in Idaho has never shut down businesses, churches, gyms restaurants bars and no masks since covid began and schools stayed open since March 2020


No doubt that is true for your area. Which doesn't mean it's true for all areas, states or cities in the US. And keep in mind the huge difference in population between the US and Australia.

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Originally Posted by Walker6
DBT,

Glad to hear the reports are overblown and y’all are still livin’ free.

I selected an event that represents the way one can live his life in this country today if he so chooses. My kid was there and sent me that pic. I was offered tickets but didn’t go because I thought it would be a lousy game (turned out to be a good one.)

I’d say without a doubt that there was coronavirus in that stadium, but the choice to go or not belonged to each one of those people.

One thing for sure is no one was knocking on any of those 106,000 people’s doors to make sure they were home on a Saturday night.


Living free? Half the population is locked down and doesnt get let out until they are vaccinated. The reports are as bad as stated.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
How bad did the hospital situation get there? I mean that was the original intention to accept the influx of patients but flatten the curve to prevent the hospital system being overwhelmed.


Very good question. It is puzzling. We see on the news how overloaded hospitals are yet people who actually go to the hospital see very low occupancy. Nurses / doctors show pictures of nearly empty e-rooms. Etc. Someone is lying to all of us.

Tom


Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.

Here be dragons ...
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Zealous bureaucrats at work, doing the wrong thing more often than not.

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Originally Posted by BustemAgain
Perhaps your mistaking numbnuttery for Liberty. You lot have been under the longest most draconian lockdown of any nation on Earth. And all you can come up with is to beggar someone to put their knob in a vice for inspiration?


We call it putting your money where your mouth is. You dont have the balls to cut a rifle barrel down for freedom. Yet you berate others to fight laws in their country, in case the same bad policies get rolled out where your cowardly hide is.

And as to the situation, my state has no lock down , my particular area never wore masks either.

Id suggest like many Americans you

A. Learn some geography
B. worry more about other US states loss of freedoms before you end up the Dis-United states of America.

Crapping in some minor hunting sub forum on the internet wont save you.




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Originally Posted by 158XTP


We call it putting your money where your mouth is. You dont have the balls to cut a rifle barrel down for freedom. Yet you berate others to fight laws in their country, in case the same bad policies get rolled out where your cowardly hide is.

And as to the situation, my state has no lock down , my particular area never wore masks either.

Id suggest like many Americans you

A. Learn some geography
B. worry more about other US states loss of freedoms before you end up the Dis-United states of America.

Crapping in some minor hunting sub forum on the internet wont save you.





Wasting your time as these halfwits are too stupid to see how screwed their own country is.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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its when you remind them how badly states like CA, Washington, Connecticut and NY etc are doing and they say "but my state isnt like that" and then you remind them the U in USA is supposed to stand for UNITED states of America.

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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
I'm getting a bit tired of Australians rubbishing our leaders on a US based forum. You mob are entitled to your opinions but if you want to impress the other people on this forum by bashing our country, I'd suggest you keep it in your pants.
This is, by the way supposed to be a Firearms forum, and if you don't like what our government is doing, how about you complain to them rather than airing your opinions here. Sure there have been mistakes made, but this virus is a new one for all of us. If you decided a vaccine wasn't for you then don't complain when you get Covid and can't breath any more. But if you want to be critical of how the Government, both State and Federal are handling it, write them a letter.


Spoken like a true Aussie government official.

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The fact is, the Aussies willingly gave up their firearms years ago out of fear. This fact CANNOT be refuted, for there is documented, video evidence of it. “Down-Under” has gone down without a whimper.

It will be a bloodbath in the US before we voluntarily give up our right to bear arms.

We will die on our feet before we beg to live on our knees. Millions of Americans have this conviction


Smith and Wessons are Thoroughbreds; Rugers are Clydesdales —John Taffin
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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
The fact is, the Aussies willingly gave up their firearms years ago out of fear. This fact CANNOT be refuted, for there is documented, video evidence of it. “Down-Under” has gone down without a whimper.

It will be a bloodbath in the US before we voluntarily give up our right to bear arms.

We will die on our feet before we beg to live on our knees. Millions of Americans have this conviction


No i think in your case you'll masturbate yourself to death. You seem to be well underway.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Childish, from a low-IQ Neanderthal that has no intellectual capacity to give a coherent response. You willingly surrendered your firearms, yes?


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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Childish, from a low-IQ Neanderthal that has no intellectual capacity to give a coherent response. You willingly surrendered your firearms, yes?


You're not getting it. I don't give a flying fuck about what you say or think. You established yourself already as a complete wanker.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas


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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
The fact is, the Aussies willingly gave up their firearms years ago out of fear. This fact CANNOT be refuted, for there is documented, video evidence of it. “Down-Under” has gone down without a whimper.

It will be a bloodbath in the US before we voluntarily give up our right to bear arms.

We will die on our feet before we beg to live on our knees. Millions of Americans have this conviction



So tell me oh resident fuckwit...why do I have firearms in my firearms safe?


And I also distinctly remember a number of America firearm buybacks...noticed you didn't make it on the news then when you went amok in retaliation, you know...bloodbath.


Oh wait...it was because you are full of shit.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas



Maybe if your mother hadn't whored herself out while she was pregnant with you and you didn't sustain the brain damage that you so clearly did.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas




You seem determined to forget about the US based buybacks.


And you are still full of shit.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas



Maybe if your mother hadn't whored herself out while she was pregnant with you and you didn't sustain the brain damage that you so clearly did.



Shame the twit wasn't left on the sheets.


Though he is proof positive women can be impregnated via anal discharge.

Last edited by JSTUART; 10/26/21.

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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas



Maybe if your mother hadn't whored herself out while she was pregnant with you and you didn't sustain the brain damage that you so clearly did.



Shame the twit wasn't left on the sheets.


Though he is proof positive women can be impregnated via anal discharge.


I'm scared that he's going to get Crappy Hamster pregnant, or vice versa.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm


I'm scared that he's going to get Crappy Hamster pregnant, or vice versa.




No biggy, it would just be another little shit.


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You guys should have a sitcom.
Lol

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Originally Posted by Raferman
You guys should have a sitcom.
Lol



We have a distinct advantage...look at the material we have to work with.


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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
The fact is, the Aussies willingly gave up their firearms years ago out of fear. This fact CANNOT be refuted, for there is documented, video evidence of it. “Down-Under” has gone down without a whimper.


Is there a factory spewing out you idiots? 20,000 pieces of gun legislation the US has brought in across its 50 states and 3000 counties the last 80 years is also 'documented' and went down without a whimper.

Just the gun control acts of the 30's has you bowing doown to uncle sam anytime you want to own a supressor or cut down a rifle barrel....
Quote
It will be a bloodbath in the US before we voluntarily give up our right to bear arms.


I dont recall any bloodbaths any time one of the above laws came in and uncle sam told you to bend over.
Quote

We will die on our feet before we beg to live on our knees. Millions of Americans have this conviction


Well you should be dead then with all the crap going on in the US right now, instead of wasting time venting on some other countries hunting sub forum.

I guess hiding behind a keyboard is easier than actually taking action.

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Originally Posted by Ruger4Life
Always hit a sore spot when you talk to Aussies about the time when they became cowards and willingly gave up their firearms out of fear. They lose their damn minds when they are confronted with reality: they have no way to defend themselves because they fuc*ed up. I truly feel sorry for all the innocent women and children that will suffer because their men became vaginas



A couple of things you need to bear in mind and remember the Australian gun laws are the model for your Democrats. Firstly it was only semi automatics. There are a lot more guns in Australia today than there were pre 1996. In fact most of the "buy back" money people got for semi autos went back into bolt and lever actions.

However, what is critical is how the semi auto ban was done and it is how it would be done in America. There is no "from my cold dying hands" stuff and because of how it was done. The guns are simply listed as prohibited weapons and huge penalties if you have one. The sort of penalties for dealing in drugs etc. The police made zero attempt to follow things up. It is a die on the vine system. If someone kept their semi auto then where would they use that gun. Even if a neighbour reported you to the policy for owning a semi auto the police never came. No need to. So if you visualised being holed up in your house ready to face the police, no one will come.

Another big thing was the amount paid for guns. There were three prices. First was for new in the box. Then used or second hand. For used or second hand the amount paid for a gun in mint condition or a gun with a bent barrel or no barrel and no stock was the same as for mint condition. If you put the oxy torch though the middle of the action you still got the same money as for a mint condition gun. The third price was for guns where the true value for a used gun was higher than a new gun of the same model that is it had some collector type value or like a Pre 64 M70. The value of the gun to be paid was determined by a gun shop owner and of course the price it a high value as the money received would go back into non prohibited guns. Thus the price you got for your semi auto was not an issue. In fact just the opposite. Blokes with semi autos that had lost interest in or semi autos with problems rushed down to hand them in to get the big price.

I well remember when the date for the ban/buy back was given, all the talk of what would happen and of the "from my cold dying hands" plus all the investigation on the legal avenues to challenge the prices that would be paid. However the gov't simply deflated the balloon and as well paid larger amounts for the guns. Everyone got more than they paid for their gun.

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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
. Everyone got more than they paid for their gun.





Yep, but the non-shooting tax payers were happy for this to be done, and feel that much safer for it.

The second buyback (yes fellow Americans, there was a second "buy-back" that was limited to large caliber, high mag capacity and short barrel pistols) was extremely cost favourable for me it particular at least. I had a somewhat beaten old Colt Gold Cup with bubba'd hammer and non-functional grip safety that I paid $800 for, but got $2,000 for it when I handed it to the cops, inclusive of cracked magazines. I'd only had the pistol for a year or so before this "buy-back".

The money went toward another pistol of course.

Unfortunately businesses that supplied accessories and reloading tools and components for these affected pistols didn't get any compensation. I guess the non-shooting tax payers were also happy about this.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Mauserand9mm, is it a bitch to own a handgun in OZ?

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Originally Posted by Raferman
Mauserand9mm, is it a bitch to own a handgun in OZ?



They've always been subject to more rules than those for long arms. I've had my rifle and pistol licences for a long time now so can't comment on the current level of difficulty to obtain.

When I got my first pistol (35 years ago?) I had to become a member of a pistol club first and then shoot regularly for 6 months. After that period the club commitee provided approval for me to obtain either an air pistol or 22. After another 3 months of regular shooting I was approved to obtain a centrefire. I got a S&W J frame 38Spl initially and then Colt 45 shortly afterwards, after I discovered IPSC. At that time there was no rifle licence or registration. I also used to shoot IPSC with my M14 (good times!).

Several years back (might be longer though) they (government) introduced minimum participation requirements for pistol ownership. I have a participation card where I record attendance at official matches, signed by the RO at the match, and have to submit to the club every year. The police will check with the club to see that participation requirements have been met. These requirements are state controlled but I think are largely similar between states. I only have one pistol and only need to attend 6 matches per year - this is not a hard task. I only shoot at one club that has a monthly shoot, but there are many other matches that I could also take part in. If more than one pistol is owned then I think the requirements are 4 matches per pistol per year, and can't claim more than one pistol per match eg 3 pistols - 12 separate matches per year.

We are required to have a safe/s for all firearms. The safes have specific requirements - thickness, weight, door hinge/arrangements, bolt-down requirements etc. The safe laws are state controlled but similar between them. The police will inspect the safes at some point in time, against compliance. The last time I moved and had my safe inspected, the police also did a check-off of all my firearms against the register - this is an extra to the inspection of the safe. The police notified me before the inspection so that an appropriate time could be arranged.


Note that we have separate rifle and pistol licences and have to obtain a permit before each time we acquire a firearm. The permit is obtained from the police and they do a "background" check to make sure you are still a "fit and proper person". I've never had any issues. It adds a few weeks into the process.


So the process sounds like a pain in the arse but we survive.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raferman
You guys should have a sitcom.
Lol


As should you guys.

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Id like to say my comments do not apply to all or even a lot of americans. They are fine people, and I think with the best ideas and practices of liberty in the world.

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Originally Posted by 158XTP
Id like to say my comments do not apply to all or even a lot of americans. They are fine people, and I think with the best ideas and practices of liberty in the world.


Most Americans are good, decent and honest people. They love liberty the same as all the world's democracies. I feel for them because they're now ranked well down the list of western democratic countries for personal freedom. The U.S. is in serious decline and the rest of us aren't too far behind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-countries

Many Americans have the idea that because of the 2nd amendment to their constitution it makes them the top of the ladder in the freedom stakes. Not so, because there is never going to be a successful mass armed uprising against a corrupt government trying to alter their constitution. Being a fat butted, bearded, baseball cap wearing, geographically ignorant, keyboard warrior mouthing off how tough you are isn't going to change the facts.

Australians still have their firearms that matter, i.e. for hunting and target shooting. I still have a gun safe full of them. No one has taken away any of my guns. I don't have to get a covid shot if I don't want to nor does anyone else have to if they don't want to.




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Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by 158XTP
Id like to say my comments do not apply to all or even a lot of americans. They are fine people, and I think with the best ideas and practices of liberty in the world.


Most Americans are good, decent and honest people. They love liberty the same as all the world's democracies. I feel for them because they're now ranked well down the list of western democratic countries for personal freedom. The U.S. is in serious decline and the rest of us aren't too far behind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freest-countries

Many Americans have the idea that because of the 2nd amendment to their constitution it makes them the top of the ladder in the freedom stakes. Not so, because there is never going to be a successful mass armed uprising against a corrupt government trying to alter their constitution. Being a fat butted, bearded, baseball cap wearing, geographically ignorant, keyboard warrior mouthing off how tough you are isn't going to change the facts.

Australians still have their firearms that matter, i.e. for hunting and target shooting. I still have a gun safe full of them. No one has taken away any of my guns. I don't have to get a covid shot if I don't want to nor does anyone else have to if they don't want to.


I don't visit this part of the forum too often. I just wanted to say that what you said is a good assessment of the States. Most Americans are just trying to get along and get by.


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Originally Posted by zeissman

Australians still have their firearms that matter, i.e. for hunting and target shooting. I still have a gun safe full of them. No one has taken away any of my guns. I don't have to get a covid shot if I don't want to nor does anyone else have to if they don't want to.




Well I lost plenty of mine, being the semi-autos and pump shotguns. As to not taking the shot, while they cant force you to do it, its a hobsons choice if they can take your livelihood away if you dont.

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Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by zeissman

Australians still have their firearms that matter, i.e. for hunting and target shooting. I still have a gun safe full of them. No one has taken away any of my guns. I don't have to get a covid shot if I don't want to nor does anyone else have to if they don't want to.


Well I lost plenty of mine, being the semi-autos and pump shotguns. As to not taking the shot, while they cant force you to do it, its a hobsons choice if they can take your livelihood away if you dont.


Excuse my ignorance on the matter. I didn't realize Oz had banned semi-auto shotguns or .22's. Pump shotguns have never been popular here in NZ and I've never known anyone to use one for duck shooting or rabbit shooting. Still, if you liked them then that would be annoying.

As far as being vaccinated for Covid, I understand where you're coming from. Our Labour govt has given teachers at state schools until Christmas to get vaccinated or lose their jobs. The lawyers are lining up rubbing their hands together in glee because it appears to be a breach of the Bill of Rights. Personally, I have had the double shot as I'm 68 and have some minor lung damage. Most people here seem happy enough to get the jab.


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Originally Posted by zeissman
Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by zeissman

Australians still have their firearms that matter, i.e. for hunting and target shooting. I still have a gun safe full of them. No one has taken away any of my guns. I don't have to get a covid shot if I don't want to nor does anyone else have to if they don't want to.


Well I lost plenty of mine, being the semi-autos and pump shotguns. As to not taking the shot, while they cant force you to do it, its a hobsons choice if they can take your livelihood away if you dont.


Excuse my ignorance on the matter. I didn't realize Oz had banned semi-auto shotguns or .22's. Pump shotguns have never been popular here in NZ and I've never known anyone to use one for duck shooting or rabbit shooting. Still, if you liked them then that would be annoying.

As far as being vaccinated for Covid, I understand where you're coming from. Our Labour govt has given teachers at state schools until Christmas to get vaccinated or lose their jobs. The lawyers are lining up rubbing their hands together in glee because it appears to be a breach of the Bill of Rights. Personally, I have had the double shot as I'm 68 and have some minor lung damage. Most people here seem happy enough to get the jab.




Make no bones about it, that little prick howard is one of the most despised filth in Australia.

As for the jab...three months ago I was healthy as a bull and sneered at it, two months ago I dragged myself out of my coffin into the high risk group and will be getting the first jab next Friday with doctor's clearance. Don't like it but it is what it is.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by zeissman


Most people here seem happy enough to get the jab.


And the ones that arent will apparently become a restricted class of citizen in a two tiered society according to your prime minister.

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I've been morbidly playing around with numbers and it looks like we have a fair way to go with prospective covid deaths - maybe this is why QLD and WA governments are so shit scared about reopening and hence keep changing the requirements for reopening - what does their modelling show? The biggest fear they have is how fucked up the hospital system currently is and how it can't cope now let alone with the extra load of prospective covid patients. Good thing that our young Jeannette jumped out of the Chief Health Officer position now before the fan starts up, but surely this timing is co-incidental.

My rubbery figures are based on what is reported on worldometers (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) so is subject to the rubberyness that they have.

My assumptions are:
- 1% death rate from covid infections (without vaccination)
- 100% vaccination take-up (ha, this won't happen, but Ozzy looks to be likely to get 90% at the moment)
- 90% vaccination effectiveness for preventing covid death (very assumption)
- 26 million people in Ozland
- assumes no herd immunity blocking and that everyone gets exposed to covid at some point


I get a figure of 26,000 total deaths from covid. We've had 1,743 deaths so far, so the worst is yet to come. Hopefully it won't be this bad but there are susceptible people out there vaccinated or not. What is looking like a raging lock-down success (ignoring all economic damage and business collapse of course) is probably just a protracted delay of the inevitable.

Further lockdowns and political shit fights pending - stay tuned.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Quote
My assumptions are:
- 1% death rate from covid infections (without vaccination)
- 100% vaccination take-up (ha, this won't happen, but Ozzy looks to be likely to get 90% at the moment)
- 90% vaccination effectiveness for preventing covid death (very assumption)
- 26 million people in Ozland
- assumes no herd immunity blocking and that everyone gets exposed to covid at some point


Among other things, there's evidence emerging that the effectiveness of the "vaccines" has been grossly overstated, and wanes fast. According to figures in a recent study from Sweden, currently a pre-print for the Lancet, the effectiveness in preventing infection actually drops below zero after about 200 days - IOW you are more likely to be infected than if you hadn't been inoculated.

Recent UK figures also show that infection rates for the vaccinated are now higher than for the unvaccinated for all cohorts over the age of 30.

As well, case fatality rates have increased significantly in the UK and other areas, among the vaccinated as well as the unvaccinated. This runs counter to the way pandemics usually evolve, and may indicate that the effects of these "leaky" vaccines - which don't create immunity at all - may include selecting for more deadly strains, a phenomenon the scientific community had already been warned about before COVID19 emerged.

And then there's the fact that deaths from heart conditions and neurological conditions appear to have sharply risen in the wake of mass vaccination, according to data from a number of countries.

I don't think that the picture is a simple one. I have a real fear that we may be discovering that the mass injection of these "vaccines" has been a horrible mistake.

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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Make no bones about it, that little prick howard is one of the most despised filth in Australia.

As for the jab...three months ago I was healthy as a bull and sneered at it, two months ago I dragged myself out of my coffin into the high risk group and will be getting the first jab next Friday with doctor's clearance. Don't like it but it is what it is.


Hope all goes well for you health wise JS.

Sometimes it's easy to forget how quickly a person's health can change. I've also had the worst year of my life health wise too. A liver resection surgery two months ago isn't something I'd want to go through again.


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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
..... Most Americans are just trying to get along and get by.


Absolutely Steve. Life has certainly become more stressful for most of us even though it has become more comfortable for most. There's more important factors to life than owning military assault rifles. Something that the bravo red necks on some of these forums can't comprehend.


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I get the impression that some posters simply wish to stir the pot. They quote strange, out there websites or other sources for their COVID information. Some rant about conspiracies being the only true reason for the virus. I guess they are looking for someone who will rise to their bait. Generally, I ignore them.

All the best.


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well looks like the strategy still seems to be lockdowns, travel restrictions, disenfrachisement of large chunks of the workforce who will not submit to a medical procedure, a vaccine that doesnt vaccinate, also a form of medical apartheid or caste system starting, the first two class system ever seen forming in western cultures in fact, and all over the 'super virus' that is still barely beating diaorhea or diabetes for global deaths.

Looks like the next distraction is being rolled out anyhow, the imminent climate catastrophe which is being reported in our media in a way that the PM had to rush a flight to get their in time to save us. Good heavens, its war of the worlds radio play level stuff.



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Tough to read this having lived in Calgary and Chelmer both well enjoyed.


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Pissing match aside, what we're witnessing on both sides of the pond is unprecedented in western society. Whatever it is, there has to be an agenda other than public health behind it. Unfortunately for us, there is no reliable, objective source of information out there to base decisions on, only spin and propaganda. And yet many, if not most, insist that they are informed by facts. The willingness of hundreds of millions to not only believe what they're told but to also go forth and proclaim it as gospel both baffles me and yet comes as no surprise.

I communicate regularly with a lady from rural Victoria who lives east of Melbourne. She and her husband have been basically living in exile in the Northern Territory for months, travelling in their RV or staying with friends. They pretty much fled Victoria ahead of the lockdowns. She told me yesterday that NT has now locked down due to a case or two of Covid popping up. She also sent me a video of thousands of Victorians protesting outdoors without masks. No burning or looting or clashes with police, just hanging out making their point, a few signs here and there, a bit of singing.

She now wishes she was back home but can't go. No vaccine passport, etc.

People in both countries have had enough, I think. It'll be interesting to see how the next year plays out. The difference between Oz and the US is that all the big-city bastions of for-your-own-good tyranny could be completely depopulated tomorrow and we would still have a population far in excess of 100 million, most of whom are armed and know how to do real-life things that don't depend on electronic devices. That said, everyone is being affected by this insanity. My wife has a job offer that she won't accept if the company is going to mandate vaccination, which sucks because the price of everything has nearly doubled, and we would really benefit from a second income in the house, which we haven't had since 2015 (cancer-her). I have been asked to provide vax status at work, but no mandate yet. We're both prepared (and preparing) to become second-class citizens (at best) in a nation we have worked our entire lives contributing to. So be it.

It isn't about chopping rifle barrels. It's about doing what you know to be right, and not doing what you know to be wrong. Whether or not you have faith in the vaccines, or believe that Covid is the killer those in power who hunger for still more power want you to believe it is, anyone with a brain who understands that liberty requires responsibility, reason, and integrity knows that these lockdowns and mandates fly in the face of every single principle western civilization was founded upon.

To argue otherwise, especially out of a need to defend your decisions and actions by demeaning those of others, is both folly and the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty.


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Originally Posted by ShaunRyan
Pissing match aside ...

Well said, sir. It is very difficult to remain objective when both "sides" are lying, both fear-mongering for political leverage.

Tom


Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.

Here be dragons ...
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Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by ShaunRyan
Pissing match aside ...

Well said, sir. It is very difficult to remain objective when both "sides" are lying, both fear-mongering for political leverage.

Tom



Yep, there are facts but many more unknowns, so emotions and fears are a good way to make up for that. Stupid as people may be, our politicians are even stupider:


Our beloved Anna says the virus will hunt down the unvaccinated


An unintelligent virus is capable of "hunting down" potential victims - really? Looks like the virus may have a higher IQ than our politicians.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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One known is the financial damage coming. We dont get to keep locking down the 1st world without paying the bill. Our grandkids could be digging themselves out from under a great depression at this rate. one of my buddies who is a farmer said fertilizer prices almost doubled last week.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by ShaunRyan
Pissing match aside ...

Well said, sir. It is very difficult to remain objective when both "sides" are lying, both fear-mongering for political leverage.

Tom



Yep, there are facts but many more unknowns, so emotions and fears are a good way to make up for that. Stupid as people may be, our politicians are even stupider:


Our beloved Anna says the virus will hunt down the unvaccinated


An unintelligent virus is capable of "hunting down" potential victims - really? Looks like the virus may have a higher IQ than our politicians.



Yeah, but "your Anna" is ought but a clueless twat.


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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
I get the impression that some posters simply wish to stir the pot. They quote strange, out there websites or other sources for their COVID information. Some rant about conspiracies being the only true reason for the virus. I guess they are looking for someone who will rise to their bait. Generally, I ignore them.

All the best.



go away hysterical old cat lady. Take your ridiculous fake covid scare porn elsewhere

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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by ShaunRyan
Pissing match aside ...

Well said, sir. It is very difficult to remain objective when both "sides" are lying, both fear-mongering for political leverage.

Tom



Yep, there are facts but many more unknowns, so emotions and fears are a good way to make up for that. Stupid as people may be, our politicians are even stupider:


Our beloved Anna says the virus will hunt down the unvaccinated


An unintelligent virus is capable of "hunting down" potential victims - really? Looks like the virus may have a higher IQ than our politicians.



Yeah, but "your Anna" is ought but a clueless twat.



Despite what Anna had done for, and was doing to Queensland and Queenslanders, she was still re-elected last year. Since she doesn’t have any notable competencies, and is only capable of making poor choices through ill-considered decisions, I figured she got voted back in because there is a large fan base that simply just loves her regardless.

I’m not part of that fan base but have to acknowledge her “beloved” status. I think she must have once cried in public at the most politically opportunistic moment or something – it’s a female premier thing I believe. Although I think even Sco-Mo teared-up over something not that long ago.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm



Despite what Anna had done for, and was doing to Queensland and Queenslanders, she was still re-elected last year. Since she doesn’t have any notable competencies, and is only capable of making poor choices through ill-considered decisions, I figured she got voted back in because there is a large fan base that simply just loves her regardless.

I’m not part of that fan base but have to acknowledge her “beloved” status. I think she must have once cried in public at the most politically opportunistic moment or something – it’s a female premier thing I believe. Although I think even Sco-Mo teared-up over something not that long ago.




Personally I preferred Joh-be-honkies, he was crooked as a dog's hind leg but at least he put in for QLD.


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Looks like QLD comes under the hammer next. Reduced rights coming in for the unvaccinated. We have a culture where people can kill each other in large numbers using alcohol, cars that can needlessly travel 2x the speed limit, where fat parents feed up their fat kids making heart disease the biggest killer of all and thats all part of acceptable risks to others and self in order to be free.

But we create an apartheid, a second class of citizen, breaking the biggest rule there is in a free country( some of you are old enough to remember black fellas werent allowed into pubs until the 70's.), for a disease that kills less westerners than being overweight, and barely beats diaorhea globally.





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[[/quote]


Personally I preferred Joh-be-honkies, he was crooked as a dog's hind leg but at least he put in for QLD.[/quote]

Best NZ export ever.

You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by 158XTP
Looks like QLD comes under the hammer next. Reduced rights coming in for the unvaccinated. We have a culture where people can kill each other in large numbers using alcohol, cars that can needlessly travel 2x the speed limit, where fat parents feed up their fat kids making heart disease the biggest killer of all and thats all part of acceptable risks to others and self in order to be free.

But we create an apartheid, a second class of citizen, breaking the biggest rule there is in a free country( some of you are old enough to remember black fellas werent allowed into pubs until the 70's.), for a disease that kills less westerners than being overweight, and barely beats diaorhea globally.






man speaks the truth. 30 per cent of kids here are obese and parents want them vaxxed to save their lives

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Originally Posted by RPN
Originally Posted by jstuart



Personally I preferred Joh-be-honkies, he was crooked as a dog's hind leg but at least he put in for QLD.


Best NZ export ever.

You're welcome.


No, whittaker's peanut slab is the best thing that ever came out of New Zealand...nothing else even begins to compete.

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Dunno about that, I met a cute little Maori chick in manly once 😀

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Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Dunno about that, I met a cute little Maori chick in manly once 😀



I worked with a heap of them in the sheds and to a one they were all as mad as cut snakes.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by ShaunRyan
Pissing match aside ...

Well said, sir. It is very difficult to remain objective when both "sides" are lying, both fear-mongering for political leverage.

Tom



Yep, there are facts but many more unknowns, so emotions and fears are a good way to make up for that. Stupid as people may be, our politicians are even stupider:


Our beloved Anna says the virus will hunt down the unvaccinated


An unintelligent virus is capable of "hunting down" potential victims - really? Looks like the virus may have a higher IQ than our politicians.



Yeah, but "your Anna" is ought but a clueless twat.



Despite what Anna had done for, and was doing to Queensland and Queenslanders, she was still re-elected last year. Since she doesn’t have any notable competencies, and is only capable of making poor choices through ill-considered decisions, I figured she got voted back in because there is a large fan base that simply just loves her regardless.

I’m not part of that fan base but have to acknowledge her “beloved” status. I think she must have once cried in public at the most politically opportunistic moment or something – it’s a female premier thing I believe. Although I think even Sco-Mo teared-up over something not that long ago.



Her fan base want to be kept safe, in their eyes, Anna is making all the right noises, all the right moves, they believe she keeps their precious arses safe, she is their girl.

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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
I get the impression that some posters simply wish to stir the pot. They quote strange, out there websites or other sources for their COVID information. Some rant about conspiracies being the only true reason for the virus. I guess they are looking for someone who will rise to their bait. Generally, I ignore them.

All the best.


Steve you praised Trudeau for closing thousands of businesses and churches in Canada and stated that Canadians who didn’t get the jab should be under home arrest. You cheered when Trudeau closed the border

You’re the biggest coward on the forum. You should use one of your ridiculous Bible quotes

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THIS ... in just the last couple days , & not all of the "suddenly died" cases .... just a few celebrities ...

now if you add up the reg citizen deaths, then the numbers are in the thousands every month, if not more

one thing all the suddenly died have in common is ... they all had their covid-19 vaccine shots.. every one of them

the unvaccinated aren't dying suddenly in large numbers ...
that in itself is amazing isn't it ? .. we were supposed to be filling up hospitals & graveyards for refusing the jabs

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Hard to say what you lot are dying of - maybe the Chinese include party suprises with their ballons


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Hard to say what you lot are dying of - maybe the Chinese include party suprises with their ballons

Hey retard this is happening everywhere, just because your regime media is 100% doesn't mean our heads are up our azzes, it means your head is up your azz.


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Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Hard to say what you lot are dying of - maybe the Chinese include party suprises with their ballons

Hey retard this is happening everywhere, just because your regime media is 100% doesn't mean our heads are up our azzes, it means your head is up your azz.

Well, you just keep your head up your own ass then - seems like your happy place. We're doing just fine down here. Maybe you lot are simply dying from having your heads up your asses?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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It’s the vaxxed dying from sudden death. That’s what it’s called here. Hopkins University is now saying natural immunity has kicked in for the people who have had Covid and they are saying the vax was just about worthless. More to follow. Edk

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Are you sure that it's the vaccine killing them?





And it's probably also worth ignoring all those people that died because of Covid - I'm sure that their immune systems would have kicked in eventually.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Are you sure that it's the vaccine killing them?





And it's probably also worth ignoring all those people that died because of Covid - I'm sure that their immune systems would have kicked in eventually.
You sound fully "vaccinated" alright......good luck

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Originally Posted by UpTop
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Are you sure that it's the vaccine killing them?





And it's probably also worth ignoring all those people that died because of Covid - I'm sure that their immune systems would have kicked in eventually.
You sound fully "vaccinated" alright......good luck

Yep, doing great. Survived Covid and survived the vaccinations - strong as bull. You guys suffer more reaction to the vaccinations than those who got them - LOL!!!


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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I wonder how many would have lived if they had been treated properly instead of told to go home only comeback when you can't breath? Maybe if they had been given medicine that was shown to work (Ivermectin) they would be alive today.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
I wonder how many would have lived if they had been treated properly instead of told to go home only comeback when you can't breath? Maybe if they had been given medicine that was shown to work (Ivermectin) they would be alive today.
many. Very many. Maybe most.

I had an issue with the non treatment thing from the get go. In EMS we didn't show up and say, well you might be having an MI. But we can't really tell for sure. So just stay home until it gets so bad you think you are going to die and then go in.

In fact not treating would seem to totally violate the medical oaths.

medical scared of what medical is supposed to do. I"ve never SMH so bad for so long...


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Originally Posted by Swamplord
THIS ... in just the last couple days , & not all of the "suddenly died" cases .... just a few celebrities ...

now if you add up the reg citizen deaths, then the numbers are in the thousands every month, if not more

one thing all the suddenly died have in common is ... they all had their covid-19 vaccine shots.. every one of them

the unvaccinated aren't dying suddenly in large numbers ...
that in itself is amazing isn't it ? .. we were supposed to be filling up hospitals & graveyards for refusing the jabs

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
And how long do we ignore FAA changing the EKG parameters for pilots since they were forced to to take the shots?


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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You might want to check the validity of your information.

Here in Aussieland we have 97.5% of the over 16 population with at least 1 dose, 96.1% with 2 doses and 72.4% with 3 doses. From what you lot are saying you'd expect this from all the vaccinations:



Your info doesn't match the facts. In fact there's no quantification of your info at all - it's just superstitious speculation, one of those "warm and fuzzy" doomsday prophesies.

https://www.tga.gov.au/news/covid-1...ovid-19-vaccine-safety-report-30-06-2022


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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I'm sorry, but this would have more credibility if people weren't forced to get the jab.

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Finally revealed info shows natural immunity has as good or better protection vs the jab. Something we have known for 2.5 years.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Finally revealed info shows natural immunity has as good or better protection vs the jab. Something we have known for 2.5 years.

Except no-one had natural immunity at the onset and many died.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Finally revealed info shows natural immunity has as good or better protection vs the jab. Something we have known for 2.5 years.

Except no-one had natural immunity at the onset and many died.

and most didn't but still had to get the worthless jab or be fired or jailed or committed to death on other health problems because docs would not treat them if they didn't have the jab.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Finally revealed info shows natural immunity has as good or better protection vs the jab. Something we have known for 2.5 years.

Except no-one had natural immunity at the onset and many died.

and most didn't but still had to get the worthless jab or be fired or jailed or committed to death on other health problems because docs would not treat them if they didn't have the jab.

Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates.

The governments did make it very difficult for those avoiding vaccination, but that's another issue.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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uh hu, sure. Like I already mentioned, what would have happened had those people been treated properly instead of refusing to with medicines known to work that were bad mouthed (probably because they werte cheap.)

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Mouser puts all his faith in big Pharma and his govt. Im sure of it they have his best interest at heart. lol

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
uh hu, sure. Like I already mentioned, what would have happened had those people been treated properly instead of refusing to with medicines known to work that were bad mouthed (probably because they werte cheap.)

The circumstances that you are talking about sounds like a hard one to answer. I'm sure that the doctors were using what they thought was the best advice that they had - live patients are worth more to them than otherwise.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

Actually the countries with the lowest Covid death rates are mostly in Africa where very few people are vaccinated. The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

We can speculate on why Africa had so few Covid deaths, but recent data makes it pretty clear that the countries with the most excess deaths (i.e. - a higher number of deaths from all causes than would be expected from historical norms) are those where a high percentage of people are vaccinated. The exact mechanism that explains this is not yet well defined but researchers are beginning to look at this and it appears to be strongly correlated with vaccine usage.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

LMFAO….You’ve been a sheep for so long that now you’re trusting the wolves. Unfuckingbelievable…😂


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
uh hu, sure. Like I already mentioned, what would have happened had those people been treated properly instead of refusing to with medicines known to work that were bad mouthed (probably because they werte cheap.)

The circumstances that you are talking about sounds like a hard one to answer. I'm sure that the doctors were using what they thought was the best advice that they had - live patients are worth more to them than otherwise.

Actually just the opposite. Here a dead COVID patient would get the hospital anywhere from $13,000-$50,000 (some say more). Hospitals went to court to keep patients from being transferred to other facilities who would try to save them.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

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Excess deaths is very polite. Much better for than just saying the vax is killing people. I’ve also heard the term Sudden death quite a bit. Very neat LOL Edk

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Originally Posted by ERK
Excess deaths is very polite. Much better for than just saying the vax is killing people. I’ve also heard the term Sudden death quite a bit. Very neat LOL Edk
The term "excess deaths" is actually a technical term used by actuaries and others who look at aggregate population trends.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
uh hu, sure. Like I already mentioned, what would have happened had those people been treated properly instead of refusing to with medicines known to work that were bad mouthed (probably because they werte cheap.)

The circumstances that you are talking about sounds like a hard one to answer. I'm sure that the doctors were using what they thought was the best advice that they had - live patients are worth more to them than otherwise.

Actually just the opposite. Here a dead COVID patient would get the hospital anywhere from $13,000-$50,000 (some say more). Hospitals went to court to keep patients from being transferred to other facilities who would try to save them.

You must live in a depraved shithole. Good luck with that.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

I don't know why you would consider the questionable stats for a small third world country as the benchmark for the whole world.

Check out the stats for developed countries and you'll see how wrong your thinking is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You'll see that USA is about 3.414 deaths per million whereas 739 for Australia. USA has about 70% vaccinated versus Australia has about 96% vaccinated. Still want to compare that against Mozambique? Maybe you guys need to start implementing Mozambique methods, but I think it's too late.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

I don't know why you would consider the questionable stats for a small third world country as the benchmark for the whole world.

Check out the stats for developed countries and you'll see how wrong your thinking is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You'll see that USA is about 3.414 deaths per million whereas 739 for Australia. USA has about 70% vaccinated versus Australia has about 96% vaccinated. Still want to compare that against Mozambique? Maybe you guys need to start implementing Mozambique methods, but I think it's too late.

It's not Mozambique in particular. The countries I cited were just examples. Almost all countries in Africa have much lower per capita Covid death rates than developed countries where most people are vaccinated. In Africa very few people are vaccinated. Also it's common for people in Africa to take anti-malaria and anti-parasitic drugs like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin which might play a role in the low numbers there.

Most of Europe has Covid death rates in the 2000-3000+ deaths per million range and those countries all have high rates of vaccination.

But the real issue is not Covid deaths but excess deaths which are far greater than those from Covid. Australia had a high rate of all cause deaths in 2022, much higher than previous years.

Here's an article that discusses that: https://www.independentsentinel.com...hs-are-causally-related-to-the-vaccines/

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

I don't know why you would consider the questionable stats for a small third world country as the benchmark for the whole world.

Check out the stats for developed countries and you'll see how wrong your thinking is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You'll see that USA is about 3.414 deaths per million whereas 739 for Australia. USA has about 70% vaccinated versus Australia has about 96% vaccinated. Still want to compare that against Mozambique? Maybe you guys need to start implementing Mozambique methods, but I think it's too late.

It's not Mozambique in particular. The countries I cited were just examples. Almost all countries in Africa have much lower per capita Covid death rates than developed countries where most people are vaccinated. In Africa very few people are vaccinated. Also it's common for people in Africa to take anti-malaria and anti-parasitic drugs like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin which might play a role in the low numbers there.

Most of Europe has Covid death rates in the 2000-3000+ deaths per million range and those countries all have high rates of vaccination.

But the real issue is not Covid deaths but excess deaths which are far greater than those from Covid. Australia had a high rate of all cause deaths in 2022, much higher than previous years.

Here's an article that discusses that: https://www.independentsentinel.com...hs-are-causally-related-to-the-vaccines/

You don't cite any credible information there, and still want to cherry pick the questionable statistics of third world countries. It's a bit rich for someone from a country with such poor covid performance to offer "advice" to a country that performed very well with covid. We'll let you know when we all start dropping dead in droves from the vaccination - might not want to hold your breath though


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Nothing like a good conspiracy theory to get the blood flowing in rightous outrage. Which is not to say that our state and federal governments did not act like a horses arse with their mandates, apps and border closures, adding to the harm.

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Double post.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

I don't know why you would consider the questionable stats for a small third world country as the benchmark for the whole world.

Check out the stats for developed countries and you'll see how wrong your thinking is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You'll see that USA is about 3.414 deaths per million whereas 739 for Australia. USA has about 70% vaccinated versus Australia has about 96% vaccinated. Still want to compare that against Mozambique? Maybe you guys need to start implementing Mozambique methods, but I think it's too late.

It's not Mozambique in particular. The countries I cited were just examples. Almost all countries in Africa have much lower per capita Covid death rates than developed countries where most people are vaccinated. In Africa very few people are vaccinated. Also it's common for people in Africa to take anti-malaria and anti-parasitic drugs like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin which might play a role in the low numbers there.

Most of Europe has Covid death rates in the 2000-3000+ deaths per million range and those countries all have high rates of vaccination.

But the real issue is not Covid deaths but excess deaths which are far greater than those from Covid. Australia had a high rate of all cause deaths in 2022, much higher than previous years.

Here's an article that discusses that: https://www.independentsentinel.com...hs-are-causally-related-to-the-vaccines/

You don't cite any credible information there, and still want to cherry pick the questionable statistics of third world countries. It's a bit rich for someone from a country with such poor covid performance to offer "advice" to a country that performed very well with covid. We'll let you know when we all start dropping dead in droves from the vaccination - might not want to hold your breath though
I just cited a study from Australia but apparently you don't want to address that. What is your stance on the excess deaths being reported worldwide including in Australia? The excess deaths show a high correlation with Covid vaccination. If you want to learn more, you might read the recently published "Cause Unknown" by Ed Dowd.

As far as the reported US Covid death rate consider the following. The US has a lot of obese people, especially blacks and Hispanics who have higher rates of obesity than the rest of the US population. Obese people are more likely to die from Covid and that is reflected in the US Covid statistics. However, US Covid deaths are also overstated due to the fact that the US government compensated hospitals an additional 20% for every person who had Covid and hospitals were happy to classify every death of a person with a positive Covid test as due to Covid. So likely the real US death figures are a lot lower than what is reported. In addition, a large number of PCR tests that were used to diagnose Covid in the US reported false positives because they ran too many cycles. If you run enough cycles (over 25) almost all PCR tests will show positive for Covid.

So far you have bragged about how great Australia was in dealing with Covid, even though the article I linked shows an excess death increase of about 15% in 2022 for Australia, and you don't want to deal with the anomaly of far lower Covid death rates in Africa where few were vaccinated vs the developed countries.

I don't think you really want to consider the evidence.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Data indicates that the jab wasn't worthless. It's a factor in those countries with lower Covid death rates."

... The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

That's utter bullshit. I know for one because I live in a high vaccination rate country and we've had low covid death rates. Mind you, that wasn't the only strategy.

Nope. Go look at the Covid death rates in African countries and compare them to Europe or North America for example.

Here is a place you can look that up: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You will notice that Australia has a Covid death rate of 739 per million whereas Mozambique (where I hunted last fall) has a death rate of 68 per million and Ghana has a death rate of 45 per million. So Australia has a Covid death rate more than 10 times higher than Mozambique or Ghana. And there are lots of other comparable examples.

And this doesn't even take into account excess deaths, which are much greater than Covid deaths. Excess deaths are far higher in developed countries with high vaccination rates.

I don't know why you would consider the questionable stats for a small third world country as the benchmark for the whole world.

Check out the stats for developed countries and you'll see how wrong your thinking is: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You'll see that USA is about 3.414 deaths per million whereas 739 for Australia. USA has about 70% vaccinated versus Australia has about 96% vaccinated. Still want to compare that against Mozambique? Maybe you guys need to start implementing Mozambique methods, but I think it's too late.

It's not Mozambique in particular. The countries I cited were just examples. Almost all countries in Africa have much lower per capita Covid death rates than developed countries where most people are vaccinated. In Africa very few people are vaccinated. Also it's common for people in Africa to take anti-malaria and anti-parasitic drugs like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin which might play a role in the low numbers there.

Most of Europe has Covid death rates in the 2000-3000+ deaths per million range and those countries all have high rates of vaccination.

But the real issue is not Covid deaths but excess deaths which are far greater than those from Covid. Australia had a high rate of all cause deaths in 2022, much higher than previous years.

Here's an article that discusses that: https://www.independentsentinel.com...hs-are-causally-related-to-the-vaccines/

You don't cite any credible information there, and still want to cherry pick the questionable statistics of third world countries. It's a bit rich for someone from a country with such poor covid performance to offer "advice" to a country that performed very well with covid. We'll let you know when we all start dropping dead in droves from the vaccination - might not want to hold your breath though
I just cited a study from Australia but apparently you don't want to address that. What is your stance on the excess deaths being reported worldwide including in Australia? The excess deaths show a high correlation with Covid vaccination. If you want to learn more, you might read the recently published "Cause Unknown" by Ed Dowd.

As far as the reported US Covid death rate consider the following. The US has a lot of obese people, especially blacks and Hispanics who have higher rates of obesity than the rest of the US population. Obese people are more likely to die from Covid and that is reflected in the US Covid statistics. However, US Covid deaths are also overstated due to the fact that the US government compensated hospitals an additional 20% for every person who had Covid and hospitals were happy to classify every death of a person with a positive Covid test as due to Covid. So likely the real US death figures are a lot lower than what is reported. In addition, a large number of PCR tests that were used to diagnose Covid in the US reported false positives because they ran too many cycles. If you run enough cycles (over 25) almost all PCR tests will show positive for Covid.

So far you have bragged about how great Australia was in dealing with Covid, even though the article I linked shows an excess death increase of about 15% in 2022 for Australia, and you don't want to deal with the anomaly of far lower Covid death rates in Africa where few were vaccinated vs the developed countries.

I don't think you really want to consider the evidence.

Sure, there are rare adverse reactions to the vaccination, as with any vaccine.

Probable causal association is speculation and far from compelling proof of anything. People looking at data and arriving at conclusions with nothing solid to back it - just like what the god botherers do.

Deny your countries atrocious covid statistics if that makes you feel better - maybe let WorldOMeters know they've got the wrong data.


You still have nothing to back-up your stance that the vaccination was useless.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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you are living proof that the jabs turn people into braindead zombies


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Nothing is as black and white as some would like to believe.

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"Sure, there are rare adverse reactions to the vaccination, as with any vaccine.

Probable causal association is speculation and far from compelling proof of anything. People looking at data and arriving at conclusions with nothing solid to back it - just like what the god botherers do.

Deny your countries atrocious covid statistics if that makes you feel better - maybe let WorldOMeters know they've got the wrong data.

You still have nothing to back-up your stance that the vaccination was useless."


You sound like CNN. You claim that any research that doesn't align with your beliefs isn't credible, but provide no substantive arguments to support your beliefs. Dismissing research as "speculation" doesn't prove your point. You need to provide evidence, which you haven't done. Why does Australia have all these excess deaths? And why do African countries have far fewer Covid deaths than developed countries? You still haven't addressed either of these except to dismiss them without evidence.

As far as vaccine injuries, even the VAERS database in the US lists 17,000 deaths associated with the Covid vaccines and almost a million serious reactions. No other vaccine has a record remotely approaching that.

But the big issue that none of the current vaccines proponents address is the issue of excess deaths, because we have seen huge increases worldwide in countries with high vaccination rates. Far more people are dying in excess deaths than died from Covid. Researchers are starting to look into this and I think we will start to get answers pretty soon.

Also, I never said the vaccines were useless. I think they provided some protection against the original version of Covid, but they have little effectiveness against Omicron and I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

You are entitled to your opinion, but based on your responses it doesn't seem to be an informed opinion.

And by the way, I've been vaccinated, so I'm not trying to defend my personal choices with regard to the vaccines. However, I won't be getting any more Covid shots based on the data I've been seeing for the last year or so.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Sure, there are rare adverse reactions to the vaccination, as with any vaccine.

Probable causal association is speculation and far from compelling proof of anything. People looking at data and arriving at conclusions with nothing solid to back it - just like what the god botherers do.

Deny your countries atrocious covid statistics if that makes you feel better - maybe let WorldOMeters know they've got the wrong data.

You still have nothing to back-up your stance that the vaccination was useless."


You sound like CNN. You claim that any research that doesn't align with your beliefs isn't credible, but provide no substantive arguments to support your beliefs. Dismissing research as "speculation" doesn't prove your point. You need to provide evidence, which you haven't done. Why does Australia have all these excess deaths? And why do African countries have far fewer Covid deaths than developed countries? You still haven't addressed either of these except to dismiss them without evidence.

As far as vaccine injuries, even the VAERS database in the US lists 17,000 deaths associated with the Covid vaccines and almost a million serious reactions. No other vaccine has a record remotely approaching that.

But the big issue that none of the current vaccines proponents address is the issue of excess deaths, because we have seen huge increases worldwide in countries with high vaccination rates. Far more people are dying in excess deaths than died from Covid. Researchers are starting to look into this and I think we will start to get answers pretty soon.

Also, I never said the vaccines were useless. I think they provided some protection against the original version of Covid, but they have little effectiveness against Omicron and I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

You are entitled to your opinion, but based on your responses it doesn't seem to be an informed opinion.

And by the way, I've been vaccinated, so I'm not trying to defend my personal choices with regard to the vaccines. However, I won't be getting any more Covid shots based on the data I've been seeing for the last year or so.

You might want to self-examine your own methodology - you seem to place significance on questionable data from third world countries yet ignore the data from comparable developed countries that contradict your assertion that the vaccination resulted in higher covid death rates. You also dismiss and discount the data on that same website that shows the woeful performance of your country. You do this by unsubstantiated assertions, and don’t provide any proof – the onus is on you to back-up your claims.

You are also willing to buy into a conclusion based only on speculative data – the report you cite does not make claim or provide proof of any causation for the data.

If you are claiming that all excess deaths are vaccination caused - prove it. There is nothing out there to have me believe it, nor do I lose sleep over it.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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If I was vaxxed I wouldn’t want to believe it either. More evidence everyday and the main common denominator is the vax. Good luck to all in this mess. Edk

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It's possible that some have had an adverse reaction to the vax, but there is no sign of any mass die off here, just people going about their business as usual. Normal life....except for the consequences of the lockdowns on business, higher prices, inflation, etc.

To add: I did not agree with the lockdowns or the mandates.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by bowmanh
"Sure, there are rare adverse reactions to the vaccination, as with any vaccine.

Probable causal association is speculation and far from compelling proof of anything. People looking at data and arriving at conclusions with nothing solid to back it - just like what the god botherers do.

Deny your countries atrocious covid statistics if that makes you feel better - maybe let WorldOMeters know they've got the wrong data.

You still have nothing to back-up your stance that the vaccination was useless."


You sound like CNN. You claim that any research that doesn't align with your beliefs isn't credible, but provide no substantive arguments to support your beliefs. Dismissing research as "speculation" doesn't prove your point. You need to provide evidence, which you haven't done. Why does Australia have all these excess deaths? And why do African countries have far fewer Covid deaths than developed countries? You still haven't addressed either of these except to dismiss them without evidence.

As far as vaccine injuries, even the VAERS database in the US lists 17,000 deaths associated with the Covid vaccines and almost a million serious reactions. No other vaccine has a record remotely approaching that.

But the big issue that none of the current vaccines proponents address is the issue of excess deaths, because we have seen huge increases worldwide in countries with high vaccination rates. Far more people are dying in excess deaths than died from Covid. Researchers are starting to look into this and I think we will start to get answers pretty soon.

Also, I never said the vaccines were useless. I think they provided some protection against the original version of Covid, but they have little effectiveness against Omicron and I think the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

You are entitled to your opinion, but based on your responses it doesn't seem to be an informed opinion.

And by the way, I've been vaccinated, so I'm not trying to defend my personal choices with regard to the vaccines. However, I won't be getting any more Covid shots based on the data I've been seeing for the last year or so.

You might want to self-examine your own methodology - you seem to place significance on questionable data from third world countries yet ignore the data from comparable developed countries that contradict your assertion that the vaccination resulted in higher covid death rates. You also dismiss and discount the data on that same website that shows the woeful performance of your country. You do this by unsubstantiated assertions, and don’t provide any proof – the onus is on you to back-up your claims.

You are also willing to buy into a conclusion based only on speculative data – the report you cite does not make claim or provide proof of any causation for the data.

If you are claiming that all excess deaths are vaccination caused - prove it. There is nothing out there to have me believe it, nor do I lose sleep over it.

It sounds like you are arguing that low Covid death rates are due to high vaccination rates but I don't see any data that supports that conclusion. You accuse me of being speculative: please provide the data that supports a cause and effect relation between high vaccination rates and low Covid death rates. The US has a relatively high vaccination rate by international standards so your thesis is not supported just because the reported US death rate is higher than Australia. We know for a fact now that the vaccines do not prevent Covid transmission, so the relatively small difference between the US and Australia vaccination rates (about 20%) is not large enough to explain the difference in deaths.

Over a third of the US population is Latino or black and they have very high rates of obesity, making them vulnerable to severe Covid. Australia does not have an equivalent large minority population with Covid vulnerability. But the big difference is that Australia had almost no Covid cases until 2022, so it escaped the original strain and Delta which were much more deadly than Omicron, and much more likely to kill people. That's the reason the death numbers are lower and not vaccination rates or public policy.

And I'm certainly not ignoring data from developed countries. As a matter of fact I used it in my examples. But there is a huge difference in Covid deaths from developed counties vs Africa and it's too big to be explained by poor reporting. So what is the reason? I've seen research papers that deal with this question so I'm not the only one asking it.

I don't think the US did particularly well with Covid, but there are quite few countries, many in Europe, that have a higher reported Covid death rate than the US. I'd say most developed countries didn't do a very good job handling Covid. However, South Korea and Japan have a lower death rate than Australia, and they also had very little Covid until 2022. The reason they show a low death rate is is probably the same as for Australia: they mostly dealt with Omicron, which is much less deadly then the earlier strains.

On the plus side for the US, we did not implement fascist rules like Australia did, and force people into confinement. And there's also no evidence that confinement lowers the death rate.

It's important to note that the number of excess deaths is far higher than deaths from Covid in many countries, so that's the number we really need to look at. And Australia didn't do too well in that regard. We don't have definitive proof that the excess deaths are a result of the vaccines, but the timing of the rise in excess deaths is very precisely correlated with the timing of mass vaccinations so that is highly suggestive of a relationship. There has been a lot of resistance from governments to researching the cause of excess deaths, probably because they are afraid it will show the failures of their policy, but eventually the cause or causes will be identified.

It may take some time, but a lot of people are starting to pay attention to excess deaths, so we will have a lot more information pretty soon.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
It sounds like you are arguing that low Covid death rates are due to high vaccination rates but I don't see any data that supports that conclusion. You accuse me of being speculative: please provide the data that supports a cause and effect relation between high vaccination rates and low Covid death rates.

That’s not what I said. You made the following assertion:
Originally Posted by bowmanh
The countries with the highest death rates generally have high rates of vaccination.

I pointed you to all the data that says otherwise. Your assertion isn’t supported by the data, and actually shows the opposite.




As for the rest of your speculation, all I can say is that blind assertions and dot connecting is all the rage these days – you can draw any conclusion and make any excuses that you want.

Originally Posted by bowmanh
The US has a relatively high vaccination rate by international standards so your thesis is not supported just because the reported US death rate is higher than Australia. We know for a fact now that the vaccines do not prevent Covid transmission, so the relatively small difference between the US and Australia vaccination rates (about 20%) is not large enough to explain the difference in deaths.

Over a third of the US population is Latino or black and they have very high rates of obesity, making them vulnerable to severe Covid. Australia does not have an equivalent large minority population with Covid vulnerability. But the big difference is that Australia had almost no Covid cases until 2022, so it escaped the original strain and Delta which were much more deadly than Omicron, and much more likely to kill people. That's the reason the death numbers are lower and not vaccination rates or public policy.

And I'm certainly not ignoring data from developed countries. As a matter of fact I used it in my examples. But there is a huge difference in Covid deaths from developed counties vs Africa and it's too big to be explained by poor reporting. So what is the reason? I've seen research papers that deal with this question so I'm not the only one asking it.

I don't think the US did particularly well with Covid, but there are quite few countries, many in Europe, that have a higher reported Covid death rate than the US. I'd say most developed countries didn't do a very good job handling Covid. However, South Korea and Japan have a lower death rate than Australia, and they also had very little Covid until 2022. The reason they show a low death rate is is probably the same as for Australia: they mostly dealt with Omicron, which is much less deadly then the earlier strains.

On the plus side for the US, we did not implement fascist rules like Australia did, and force people into confinement. And there's also no evidence that confinement lowers the death rate.

It's important to note that the number of excess deaths is far higher than deaths from Covid in many countries, so that's the number we really need to look at. And Australia didn't do too well in that regard. We don't have definitive proof that the excess deaths are a result of the vaccines, but the timing of the rise in excess deaths is very precisely correlated with the timing of mass vaccinations so that is highly suggestive of a relationship. There has been a lot of resistance from governments to researching the cause of excess deaths, probably because they are afraid it will show the failures of their policy, but eventually the cause or causes will be identified.



Originally Posted by bowmanh
It may take some time, but a lot of people are starting to pay attention to excess deaths, so we will have a lot more information pretty soon.

One would hope so – the superstitious dot connectors are going frantic in the meantime. But we don't just need more data, we also need demonstrable factual explanations of the data.


BTW, do you happen to be a Christian?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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mauserand9mm,

I really can't follow what you are saying. It seems to lack logical consistency.

You wrote that Australia had a lower reported Covid death rate than the US and cited the fact that Australia had a higher vaccination rate than the US. That sounds like you are saying that high vaccination rates are related to lower Covid death rates. Yet when I stated that, you claimed you never said it. Perhaps you didn't say exactly that, but you certainly implied it.

And I pointed out that the countries with the lowest Covid death rates on earth are in Africa and have low vaccination rates. You dismissed that because they are "third world countries" and said my assertion was not supported by data even though I cited data from Worldometer.

I've presented a lot of other data and empirical evidence and perhaps some folks will get something from it, but obviously you don't.

I've spent as much time on this as I want to, so I won't continue the discussion.

You certainly have a right to your opinions but I can't make much sense of them.

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Are they still talking about Covid in Oz?


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Originally Posted by CopperSolid
Are they still talking about Covid in Oz?


I dare say it's all done and dusted here and been for a while now. I went to the doctors a couple of weeks ago for my annual tune up and no masks needed - that was the only lingering remnant of the covid events that I'd come acoss for the the longest time now.

Still negative outfall for our idiotic politicians though and their moronic decisions, business as usual I guess.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CopperSolid
Are they still talking about Covid in Oz?


I dare say it's all done and dusted here and been for a while now. I went to the doctors a couple of weeks ago for my annual tune up and no masks needed - that was the only lingering remnant of the covid events that I'd come acoss for the the longest time now.

Still negative outfall for our idiotic politicians though and their moronic decisions, business as usual I guess.

How trustworthy are the stats coming out of Africa?

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CopperSolid
Are they still talking about Covid in Oz?


I dare say it's all done and dusted here and been for a while now. I went to the doctors a couple of weeks ago for my annual tune up and no masks needed - that was the only lingering remnant of the covid events that I'd come acoss for the the longest time now.

Still negative outfall for our idiotic politicians though and their moronic decisions, business as usual I guess.

How trustworthy are the stats coming out of Africa?
It's hard to say and probably varies somewhat by country. Having spent some time in Africa, my guess is that they are certainly not as good as the stats from developed countries but are probably still useful to show general trends.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CopperSolid
Are they still talking about Covid in Oz?


I dare say it's all done and dusted here and been for a while now. I went to the doctors a couple of weeks ago for my annual tune up and no masks needed - that was the only lingering remnant of the covid events that I'd come acoss for the the longest time now.

Still negative outfall for our idiotic politicians though and their moronic decisions, business as usual I guess.

How trustworthy are the stats coming out of Africa?
It's hard to say and probably varies somewhat by country. Having spent some time in Africa, my guess is that they are certainly not as good as the stats from developed countries but are probably still useful to show general trends.

Yes, then there are living conditions and added exposure to any number of pathogens that westerners in their sterile environments are not, which may be a factor in immune system response, etc, etc.

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