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Originally Posted by baldhunter
I recently shot a Red Stag that weighed around 450lbs.I shot it with a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip about a 100yards away.My load had a mv at 3100fps.I hit the onside shoulder and left a silver dollar size exit behind the offside shoulder.That bullet held up really well.I think Nosler has come a long way in improving the ballistic tips over the years.They beefed up the jackets and they must use a hard lead for the core.I was impressed by how little the meat was bloodshot around the wound channel.What I've noticed over the years is,if you have a cup and core bullet that has a soft lead core,it will shed a lot of weight and often produces a lot of very bloodshot meat.I don't know when Mule deer did this test but it is an interesting read.Because bullet makers tend to play around with bullets from time to time,I'm sure the results can vary as well. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/


So, is there really much difference between the AB and the BT? I just looked up the 180gr .308 cal. you mentioned. They have the same sectional density and B.C., different colored tip, and the AB has a thicker jacket at the base and is bonded. I'm not suggesting that the BT doesn't do great things, which, as you have shown, it does, but why not merge them and call it the Nosler Accubonded Ballistic Tip or Nosler X-Bonded Accuballistic Tip or something? Or is there an advantage to the NBT over the AB?

EDIT: I see now, the NBT is much cheaper.

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They killed them the same way everyone survived serious infections before antibiotics.

Originally Posted by bobinpa

I wonder what they used to kill elk before the "premium" bullets came around? Maybe elk have gotten tougher over the years....


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Originally Posted by MarineHawk
Originally Posted by baldhunter
I recently shot a Red Stag that weighed around 450lbs.I shot it with a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip about a 100yards away.My load had a mv at 3100fps.I hit the onside shoulder and left a silver dollar size exit behind the offside shoulder.That bullet held up really well.I think Nosler has come a long way in improving the ballistic tips over the years.They beefed up the jackets and they must use a hard lead for the core.I was impressed by how little the meat was bloodshot around the wound channel.What I've noticed over the years is,if you have a cup and core bullet that has a soft lead core,it will shed a lot of weight and often produces a lot of very bloodshot meat.I don't know when Mule deer did this test but it is an interesting read.Because bullet makers tend to play around with bullets from time to time,I'm sure the results can vary as well. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/


So, is there really much difference between the AB and the BT? I just looked up the 180gr .308 cal. you mentioned. They have the same sectional density and B.C., different colored tip, and the AB has a thicker jacket at the base and is bonded. I'm not suggesting that the BT doesn't do great things, which, as you have shown, it does, but why not merge them and call it the Nosler Accubonded Ballistic Tip or Nosler X-Bonded Accuballistic Tip or something? Or is there an advantage to the NBT over the AB?

EDIT: I see now, the NBT is much cheaper.


I could be wrong,but I think they use the same copper jacket for the Accubond and Ballistic tip of the same caliber and bullet weight.According to Mule Deer's article,the lead cord hardness was different between the bonded Accubond and the non-bonded Ballistic Tip.See article: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/ The bullet manufactures could make changes to the core and the bullet could perform much different.I was surprised to see the 165gr Hornady he tested had the hardest core of the ones he tested.I used that bullet in my 300 WSM running around 3050fps.I shot four deer with that bullet and none of the bullets exited.The retained weight of the bullet I recovered was 40%.Meat damage was too massive for my liking,so I moved Hornady Interbond which is another very tough bullet.I've only been able to recover one 140gr Accubond from a hog I shot with my 7mag.The retained weight was 60%.I haven't been able to recover any of the beefed up Ballistic Tips because everything exited.I did find a picture of a 165gr recovered from the fifth water jug in a bullet test.It looks good to me.
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I have a close friend who lives in Missoula, mt. who has one big game rifle, in 30-06. He kills at least 1 elk per year and has been hunting at least 30 years. He buys whatever is on sale at his local wmt, usually power points or core lokts. He'd say premiums are not needed. However, for the hunter spending thousands, and coming from out of state, I'd say a premium bullet is a good choice considering the other costs associated with the hunt. One might call it cheap insurance.

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Originally Posted by hotsoup
I have a close friend who lives in Missoula, mt. who has one big game rifle, in 30-06. He kills at least 1 elk per year and has been hunting at least 30 years. He buys whatever is on sale at his local wmt, usually power points or core lokts. He'd say premiums are not needed. However, for the hunter spending thousands, and coming from out of state, I'd say a premium bullet is a good choice considering the other costs associated with the hunt. One might call it cheap insurance.


I'd say your close friend has proven you wrong!

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I hunt Elk with a 300 Win mag and a .30-06. My outfitter in Eastern Oregon recommends 185 grain Berger VLD hunting bullets for the 300 and 180 grain Nosler BT's for the .30-06. These have worked for me.

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Not if you use a 45-70


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Probably not. But it won’t hurt.
I’m all about Ttsx for elk.


All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
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Any one who hunts elk with a 45/70 and is consistent in harvest......gets my attention and respect.


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Originally Posted by memtb

Needed.....No! But, in many cases preferable.! memtb



This. I prefer Barnes, Hammers, Nosler.


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Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh?


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Originally Posted by WAM
Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh?


That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's!

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I agree with WAM. One could also add the scenario that here in Oregon it typically will take a resident 6 years or more to accumulate enough preference points to draw one of the better units. Some of the really desirable hunts may take 20 or more points. I guess in the end, everyone can hunt with whatever legal weapon and bullet they choose. I don't see why some people get all bent when someone has a different point of view.
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This discussion begins to look like the mask-wearing dilemma. Maybe you "premiums are good insurance" guys should start shooting two or three at a time.


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You can tell who has shot elk, and who just shoots bs..


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Originally Posted by Steve_in_OR
..... I guess in the end, everyone can hunt with whatever legal weapon and bullet they choose. I don't see why some people get all bent when someone has a different point of view.
Steve

Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one, just some are bigger and stinkier than others. Some just think anything posted contrary to their opinion is wrong or just plain stupid. Happy Trails


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Originally Posted by DonFischer
Originally Posted by WAM
Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh?


That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's!



And.....any junkyard tire that will hold air will get you there! But, a new one may do it a lot safer! grin memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by DonFischer
Originally Posted by WAM
Spend $3k on an out of state elk trip and cut corners on a $19.95 box of ammo makes perfect sense, eh?


That is a load of crap. Any shot taken with a premium bullet that kills well can be matched by well chosen cup and core bullet. Same goes for any shot that wounds and any shot that simply miss's!



And.....any junkyard tire that will hold air will get you there! But, a new one may do it a lot safer! grin memtb

Yep, you should wear three masks, and get an anal swab daily. Just to be safe.


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Premiums seem like a good idea in big bear country.



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Just stack the deck in your favor man. That is what I do with elk/moose etc.

Actually I begun exercising this philosophy on deer too lately.


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