Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Mausers and Military Rifles Question on a 1917 Swede

Hi guys. I came into a 6.5 x 55 1916 Gustav Stads (?) when an old Finlander up here passed away last year.
Sharp little gun, all the numbers and badge match. It is in really great condition inside and out except possibly the fore stock area has been trimmed up.
What do you do with them? Change em up? Drill for scope? Scout scope? ( my eyes don’t like the original sights ) sell them as is?
I have only had a higher front blade put on, kept the old one, to make the sights more functional.
If these are common guns, I will push my modifications, if they are to be collected I’ll let it go to that appreciator.
Thoughts?
Edit.. I think I am in error, I just saw a pic of another of this model and the stock looks the same.

Thanks
Osky

If all the serial numbers match I would consider selling it to a collector before sporterizing it.

kwg

Since the wood on Swede's is serial numbered too, there is not huge collector dollars there from the purist, since it has been whittled on. Sporterizing the '96 is just like any other milsurp, unless you can do the bulk of the work yourself, it's a money pit. That said, properly done, they make beautiful trim little rifles, in a superb cartridge.

Thanks guys. For me to accurately stretch out the shot I would have to have it drilled for scope mountings and looking at it I sort of cringe at doing that to this piece. Maybe that’s overthought.
If kept it may just become a shorter range stand gun here at my bear camp.

Osky

I got a great buy years ago on a 96 Gustav Swede and chopped it up as a truck gun. Took it to the range and it easily does better than moa with its 106 year old military barrel. Even put all of my ladder loads inside of 1 moa. It does not live in the truck. If one does not plan on serious use though, I'd keep it in its original form as the matching numbers add considerable value.

There are 3 common versions of the Swedish military Mausers, the 1894 Carbines, the 1896 infantry rifle with a 29" barrel, and the M38 with a 23.5" barrel.

A lot of 1896 long rifles were converted to the M38 configuration.

Which style do you have?

I've reworked well over a dozen Swedish military Mauser and think that they are the best of the pre-1898 style small ring military Mausers. Like someone already posted, if it is in its original configuration it will retain more value than if it has already been modified. If it has already been modified, it has lost its collectors' value, so anything that you do to it isn't going to reduce its value any more.

I think that putting a receiver peep sight on an owner modified military Mauser is a useful upgrade, as is replacing the trigger with a Bold of Timney unit.

I always replace the bolt shroud with a commercial style unit that has a larger gas shield because the biggest safety issue with the pre-1898 Mausers is that the small gas shield might not help much in case of a ruptured primer or a case separation. Doing so would require replacing the trigger with a unit that has an integral safety.

This one would be the carbine. Somewhere in the 18” barrel length.

I had a fellow in camp maybe 5 years ago practicing with his S&W .357 just before bear hunting. A round sounded funny and as I looked I saw the barrel canted down. I yelled and stopped him as he’d pulled the hammer and turned the cylinder. Frame broke on top, barrel then fell off, nearly a disaster. Since then all people here must wear eye protection no matter the weapon.

Osky

Is there a reason you are calling it a "1917 Swede"? It looks like what you have is a m96 swedish mauser made in 1916, if in fact a Carl Gustaf.. It also sounds like it is full military, based on the vague description? I have to ask if you have ever fired the gun, or is there a reason you don't think you can shoot it well enough to take game with it as is. Do you have an eye problem that requires you to absolutely use a scope on your rifles? I'd also not drill and tap the old girl if it is indeed an all numbers matching rifle. Does it look like this?


If you have any experience at shooting iron sights, it might just surprise you with how accurate it is. Mine shoots like this:

BSA
I call it that in general terms due to it being a 6.5x 55 which in this country we always called Swedes. The Carl Gustads (sp) is engraved on the gun along with 1917 on the top. From online searching I know to look for matching numbers, they are.
Yours is much longer. I’d be happy to send over pictures if you send an e mail address.
The sights are original or were. The settings began around 330 yards and went out from there. I had a higher front sight put on. They did awesome looks like it grew there. Still with that rear flip up it’s still hard for me to tri focus.
Interesting when I picked it up from his widow she handed me two extremely old paper type packages with live rounds in them. Far too old looking to see a chamber again.

Osky

I'll be the fly in the ointment on this one...

It's your rifle, do WTH you want with it.

If you want to turn it into a sporter and use it, then go for it. I'd bet Paul Mauser would rather see one of his master pieces having the hell shot out of it, scuffed up from hard use and put away wet as it was designed to be, not squirreled away in some gun safe for no one to see but a self proclaimed "collector" and his greedy little fingers, fantasizing about saving it for "posterity"! (and if you're a collector, good for you, its your thing, just don't dump a guilt trip on people who actually want to use their stuff, regardless of your perception of "collector value"!)..

As to a money pit? unless you really do buy firearms for investment purposes, who cares? As long as it isn't a financial burden to you and yours, doesn't matter what the resale value is if you get good use out of the gun and it brings pleasure to you. Profits are soon spent, memories are priceless .....and remember, they don't put luggage racks on coffins for a reason.

An unmolested 1894 Carbine would have a lot of collector interest and the value would depend to a great degree on the condition. A lot of the 1894 Carbines were imported by Interarms and restamped "G33/50" on the top of the receiver ring. If your 1894 Carbine hasn't been restamped, I think that it would be more valuable in its original condition to collectors.

Thanks for the extra info Osky. In your op, you state "1916". Also, it's not Carl Gustads, its Carl Gustafs (short for Carl Gustafs stads Gevarsfaktori in Eskilstuna Sweden), just to clarify that. Yours sounds like the shorter M38 or 1894 (M1894).

Have to agree with those speaking of dumping dough into a milsurp; much less one IF yet collectible. A time past when even a mismatched SN small components was enough to knock an apparent decent collector specimen to no more than 'also ran'. Nowadays, what a difference! Speaking of "Russian capture collectibles even as at best reflecting the great mauser design feature for melding mix & match components & functioning!
Todays 'maybe kinda' collectible as plus half decade, flat on 'collectible'. The "no resuscitation" milsurps now those with extra receiver holes and/or terminally stocks. The latter, replacement most often too expensive to recover investment. Full out sporterizing a milsurp nowadays, normally a sinkhole. Best to find one where someone else has already experienced such and "the evidence" realistically priced, up for grabs. The "good bones" shopping possibilities! Keep in mind even as inexpensive commercial components, caution where gunsmith services involved, Not your fifties era labor cost market! Skilled work, pricey! Conversely, nowadays the fact of many bargain brand new package sporters often difficult to match for absolute value!
The 'net', preserve the collectible/restorable milsurps as investments. Buy someone else's decent black hole as realistically priced for 'tweaking' to tastes. Grab Bubba's truck gun or near to love for just such "rugged beauty" . Supposing too, the "learning experience" rule exception though most often, not the one planned. For me, learning that "brain on gunsmithing", my talents 'elsewhere'. Best result... "No gun significantly harmed" in that production!

Pix below of a Smith Corona 03A3 which my purchase at time as shown, about the value of the minty Lyman 48 & Redfield ramp sights + $150. Biggest irony IF original & decent, possibly $1K+ gun nowadays! Of course, hindsight and...
Just my take
Best, Happy New Year & Keep Safe!
John

It was quite common place to do this in the 50's and 60's. There sure are a lot of nice sporters around because grandpa wanted to convert his military rifle into a sleek new sporting rifle. It happened a lot back in the day. As for now, if one has a good condition military all matching numbers rifle, they should probably leave it as such. Sell it or trade it for something more useful and let a true collector or someone that appreciates such things have it. The m96 Carl Gustaf I posted earlier will remain as a full military style rifle. I shoot in local military matches with that rifle and it has won high overall score multiple times. Even after the second day of ownership I won high over all score with it. The swedish mausers are known good shooters and cool as hell in all original condition. I actually saw a m96 sporter that was sporterized by Kimber (I believe) and the damn thing had some issues. Shot like a house afire at 100 yards, but as you stretched out the distance, the rifle shot more and more to the left or right (can't remember exactly), but it was pretty obvious kimber did not properly drill and tap the receiver for scope use. At 200 yards, the group was off to one side by 6 inches, at 400 yards, that had doubled (12" off left or right). The owner dialed it in to zero at 400 yards and then it was off by 12" at 100 yards. Kind of a cluster fugg, where a very nice looking rifle lost a lot of utility and value. With this being said, I search out professionally sporterized m1917's. Those are very few and far between. Most seem to have been sporterized by bubba with an angle grinder, dremel and hand drill...

BSA... sorry I was going from memory, I’d just remembered this morning it is sitting in the gun room. I do have a couple pictures of it on this iPad and one has the ring with date.
I’m sorry if wasn’t clear. I have no intention of sporterizing this weapon. The most I would do is have an optic installed which will require drilling. It seems to go that when a guy takes that step 10 minutes later 20 people tell him what a mistake that was. The rifle seems untouched otherwise.
I haven’t held or payed attention to that particular rifle since they helped the front blade up and I found visually it was still not good for me.
I do appreciate everyone’s opinions.

Osky

Osky, how about a pic so we know exactly what's being discussed?

Check your messages please, maybe you can help.

Osky

"sporterizing" is a technique to spend $400 turning a $500 rifle into a $75 rifle.

Poole

I agree about the rear sight blade. With my eyesight, I do struggle a bit with mine as well, and that is with my good eye (have to shoot iron sights right/weak handed)... They are sufficient in good lighting, but when it gets rainy out or sub par lighting, the real thin blade rear sight notch is less than desirable. Yet it is still good enough to give the guys with $3,000.00 CMP m1 garands a run for their money.. I don't know if you answered one of my previous questions: have you shot your rifle with the iron sights, and how does it do for you?

No BSA. I’ve just shouldered it over and over back when Ahlmans smiths were done with it. My right eye is the weak one and I could not get all things to focus right like they did when I was young. Imagine that.
We’re I to keep it as is for a truck gun Imwoukd never get on target and be true with it as is.
I would add that they fired it and gave me a very nice cloverleafed target done at 50 yards with the modification. Show offs.
Osky