24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
You sure you didn’t mean the steel load kicks LESS?


Nope same payload 200 fps faster. Noticable difference. 1 1/4 ounces of shot in both hulls, the lead load being in 2 3/4 inch cases and the steel load in 3 inch cases.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]




Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,573
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,573
Ah, that would explain some discrepancies then. Nothing is equal among the loads, apart from shot diameter. wink


Last edited by hh4whiskey; 11/17/20.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Well maybe but to look at the two it seems the steel shot is smaller and it does pattern better.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,573
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,573
Well, either they’re both #2 in size, or they’re not, and one or both are not to spec. There’s decades of evidence, science, and physics that show that (all else being equal), the heavier (for diameter), spherical projectile penetrates more on game. Most duck hunters have comprehended this since the 80’s. Higher initial velocity only helps steel inside 30-40.....so I could see some similarity at short range, if that’s the only place you’re using it. I’d still pick copper plated lead #4s over #2 steel, for just about anything I was allowed to.

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 808
1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
1
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 808
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
You sure you didn’t mean the steel load kicks LESS?


Nope same payload 200 fps faster. Noticable difference. 1 1/4 ounces of shot in both hulls, the lead load being in 2 3/4 inch cases and the steel load in 3 inch cases.


Thats why steel is ballistically inferior to lead, needs to be pushed harder.

If you are stuck with #2 shot have you considered heavier payloads. A 3" shotshelll can throw up to 1 7/8oz of lead shot, 3.5" 12ga can throw 2.25oz loads so its almost 2 for 1 compared to regular 12ga. The pigs you shot so far are about the size of large dogs. Might find a jump to 2-3 x bodyweight tests your setup.

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
You sure you didn’t mean the steel load kicks LESS?


Nope same payload 200 fps faster. Noticable difference. 1 1/4 ounces of shot in both hulls, the lead load being in 2 3/4 inch cases and the steel load in 3 inch cases.


Thats why steel is ballistically inferior to lead, needs to be pushed harder.

If you are stuck with #2 shot have you considered heavier payloads. A 3" shotshelll can throw up to 1 7/8oz of lead shot, 3.5" 12ga can throw 2.25oz loads so its almost 2 for 1 compared to regular 12ga. The pigs you shot so far are about the size of large dogs. Might find a jump to 2-3 x bodyweight tests your setup.


Being stuck with #2 shot size and shooting from a tree stand I think 1 1/4 oz of #2's works just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any sized hog with anything I have on hand. Seems to me just about anything hit with either load around the neck head area is going to have problems pretty fast.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: May 2006
Posts: 808
1
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
1
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 808
if you feel birdshot is okay on 200-300lbs hogs at 30 yards, its good you are up a tree is all I am saying

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Originally Posted by 158XTP
if you feel birdshot is okay on 200-300lbs hogs at 30 yards, its good you are up a tree is all I am saying


No I am required by the regs to use that load. Okay well bring the fat one on.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,017
D
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,017
Steel is ok at close range. We've tried this on coyotes over the years. Beyond about 25-30 yards it was probe to balling up in the hair. Real Hevi-shot is way better. I have been using #2 Hevi-shot for 10-12 years. I am in the process of switching to TSS.
The steel is so light that it just doesn't carry any energy very far. You have to push them to like 1500fps to get any decent results.

You should try so TSS loads. I think Apex loads them


NRA Benefactor Member

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 60
H
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
H
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Lead is gonna be FAR better than steel, and bismuth is better than steel...on flesh/bone/game, for penetration. It’s about density of the shot.....steel is the absolute worst. Testing penetration on a steel drum for buckshot penetration on game was a waste of AMMO, unless your gonna outfit your hogs with some medieval armor. 18gcc TSS #2s would probably take a really big hog to catch one. FWIW, EMI (Hevishot company) is FOS regarding about 90% of whatever they promote with their loads. They’ve flat out lied about shot and load composition on several loads.


Well I agree that testing shot on a steel drum does not equal doing the same thing on a hog. However I did test the Hevi shot #2 load on a hog and it did kill the hog. Shooting downward at less than 30 yards the steel shot penetrated very well. That said the drum testing was to compare the ability of the different shot types to penetrate, steel won.



Hevishot is at best 12 g/cc as marketed. As Rickt300 posted above, Hevi has a long history of reducing the density of the shot they use without notice. Many of us remember and hold it against them.

Originally Posted by rickt300
Some public land near my place is crawling with feral hogs and I can either use a bow or a shotgun but limited to #2 shot. Are any of the non leads better than lead for penetration out 30 yards? Thinking Bismuth from a Hevis-shot factory load 1 1/2 ounces. How does Tungston compare? Penetration being the most important criteria and the ability to pattern tightly. I will be shooting at the head/ neck junction at generally less than 25 yards from a tree.


TSS compared to Hevi is like comparing Hevi to steel. There is a huge difference in density and performance.
TSS (18 g/cc) will out pattern and out penetrate anything else on the market.

Last edited by Hal4son; 12/30/20.
IC B3

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,017
D
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,017
Originally Posted by Hal4son
Originally Posted by rickt300
Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Lead is gonna be FAR better than steel, and bismuth is better than steel...on flesh/bone/game, for penetration. It’s about density of the shot.....steel is the absolute worst. Testing penetration on a steel drum for buckshot penetration on game was a waste of AMMO, unless your gonna outfit your hogs with some medieval armor. 18gcc TSS #2s would probably take a really big hog to catch one. FWIW, EMI (Hevishot company) is FOS regarding about 90% of whatever they promote with their loads. They’ve flat out lied about shot and load composition on several loads.


Well I agree that testing shot on a steel drum does not equal doing the same thing on a hog. However I did test the Hevi shot #2 load on a hog and it did kill the hog. Shooting downward at less than 30 yards the steel shot penetrated very well. That said the drum testing was to compare the ability of the different shot types to penetrate, steel won.



Hevishot is at best 12 g/cc as marketed. As Rickt300 posted above, Hevi has a long history of reducing the density of the shot they use without notice. Many of us remember and hold it against them.

Originally Posted by rickt300
Some public land near my place is crawling with feral hogs and I can either use a bow or a shotgun but limited to #2 shot. Are any of the non leads better than lead for penetration out 30 yards? Thinking Bismuth from a Hevis-shot factory load 1 1/2 ounces. How does Tungston compare? Penetration being the most important criteria and the ability to pattern tightly. I will be shooting at the head/ neck junction at generally less than 25 yards from a tree.


TSS compared to Hevi is like comparing Hevi to steel. There is a huge difference in density and performance.
TSS (18 g/cc) will out pattern and out penetrate anything else on the market.


I believe this is true but Hevi shot is much more available in big sizes


NRA Benefactor Member

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,612
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,612
I don't trust Environ Metal the makers of Hevi Shot. Maybe they are better now but there was a time when their product was very sketchy. Pellets were often globular in shape rather than round, their diameter was all over the place and inconsistent, weights/density varied highly and the material matrix was occasionally so brittle that it powdered upon impact. In their loaded ammo they would change hulls, powder, wads, ect. with no notice given to the consumer. So after doing meticulous testing with various chokes to find that perfect combination Hevi Shot would change the components in the shell and patterns would go to hell. It was maddening.


Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 9
S
New Member
Offline
New Member
S
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 9

"No I am required by the regs to use that load. Okay well bring the fat one on."

Then don't. #2 birdshot of any kind is not suitable for hogs. Even if you were able to kill it, you will break your meat grinder and probably your teeth. The appropriate type of shogun ammo for hogs is slugs.

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by Scota4570

"No I am required by the regs to use that load. Okay well bring the fat one on."

Then don't. #2 birdshot of any kind is not suitable for hogs. Even if you were able to kill it, you will break your meat grinder and probably your teeth. The appropriate type of shogun ammo for hogs is slugs.


How much experience do you have with TSS? I don't think anybody who has run it would consider TSS #2 birdshot.

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Originally Posted by Scota4570

"No I am required by the regs to use that load. Okay well bring the fat one on."

Then don't. #2 birdshot of any kind is not suitable for hogs. Even if you were able to kill it, you will break your meat grinder and probably your teeth. The appropriate type of shogun ammo for hogs is slugs.


I agree but so far I am 2 for 2 and soon will do it again. My stand is only 125 yards from the road and it is all down hill. Possibly shooting from above at pretty short range with #2 gives it an edge over a crossbow or bow.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 202
A
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
A
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 202
Unscientific but I’ve lost count of the hogs I’ve killed while turkey hunting with 3” #6 lead and a turkey choke. Never tried to stretch or measure the distance but up close it whacks em good - call it 20 yards? I’ve shot a few further out that required a little chasin’ up and a finisher.

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Originally Posted by Pappy348


Out of stock.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,526
The ones I wanted were OOS too. I signed up for notification and had them pretty quickly. I think maybe they’re made to order, at times anyway.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
R
Campfire Outfitter
OP Offline
Campfire Outfitter
R
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,292
Think I will sign up to be notified.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
427 members (007FJ, 1lesfox, 1lessdog, 06hunter59, 01Foreman400, 10Glocks, 38 invisible), 2,422 guests, and 999 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,731
Posts18,400,932
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.085s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9011 MB (Peak: 1.0577 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 12:06:52 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS