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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15645615 01/12/21
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I'm going to buy the Magnetospeed.

Now I need to decide between the MagnetoSpeed V3 & the MagnetoSpeed Sporter.

(In the words of a street vendor in Mexico City, I can be known as a "Cheapy Skate".)

I'd dearly like to see the pictures of the mounting by Mule Deer or Dirt Farmers. Considering the more than twice the price of the "V3" over the Sporter, I'd think the exterior mounting would be just fine with the "Sporter" version. Plus I often take multiple rifles to the bench rest. Am I wrong with the assumption that the Sporter would work as well as the V3 with that exterior mounting?


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15645666 01/12/21
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I've tried them all fwiw.... Until Labradar produces a new version addressing bullet size and velocity limitations, I'm sticking with my 35 that's mounted in a long plywood box that sits atop a single tripod.

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: MarineHawk] #15645709 01/12/21
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MarineHawk,

"The MS says something like that the bullet's outer diameter should be passing 1/4" to 1/8" of the MS surface. Is that the case with the new setup? If so, I'm just curious how it would change the POI less than being mounted to the barrel?"

Why would passing close to the MagnetSpeed's "bayonet" (or anything else) change the POI of a bullet?

When mounted on the barrel a MagnetoSpeed can change both POI and accuracy because it changes the vibrations of the barrel, sometimes drastically. The only rifles I've encountered where it didn't were heavy-barreled rifles, usually chambered for relatively mild cartridges--but it changed POI an inch at 100 yards even with a Ruger No. 1B (medium-contour barrel) chambered in .22 Hornet. With sporter weight bolt actions I've seen barrel mounted MagnetoSpeeds change 100-yard POI up to three inches, and also make groups open up to 2-3 inches--with rifles that averaged well under an inch with the same load.

As I have noted elsewhere, I really liked my LabRadar at first, and never had any trouble getting it aligned. Used on around trips to the range before its limitations eventually convinced me that it wasn't ideal for my purposes. I suspected that would be the case, but had to try one because of what I do for a living. but the limitations turned out to be somewhat greater than the MS instructions claimed.


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: Mule Deer] #15645755 01/12/21
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Why would passing close to the MagnetSpeed's "bayonet" (or anything else) change the POI of a bullet?

When mounted on the barrel a MagnetoSpeed can change both POI and accuracy because it changes the vibrations of the barrel, sometimes drastically.



Okay, MD. Thanks for the information. That makes more sense than what I was assuming. I was assuming that the pressure wave through the air was bouncing off the bayonet back onto the bullet in flight or something. But I was just making that up in my head.

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: BWalker] #15646114 01/12/21
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Originally Posted by BWalker
My only complaint with the Labradar is it's a bit bitchy to set up/point. That and as john mentioned it doesnt work well ornate all with 22 caliber and smaller cartridges.


Friend got me a scope mount that clamps on top of the LR. I had a Remington 3-9x40 package scope on the shelf. Centered the adjustments, mounted it to the LR mount. Now I almost never miss a shot, including hundreds of .224 75gn A-max, which I used to miss quite frequently.

There are Pic rail adapters and peep sights available not, all FAR better than the sighting notch.


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15647763 01/12/21
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Below is just my personal experience. Understandably, everyone needs and goals are different. Previously, I used a Shoot'n Chrony. The main drawback being the hassle of set up at a busy public range.

I've got both a Labradar and a Magnetospeed. I strap an old Weaver scope to the LR, and alignment to the bullet path is super easy. I use both the LR and MS when I fire foulers at the beginning of a shooting session to confirm I am getting accurate bullet speeds. They almost always agree to within 0.1% of each other, i.e. within 3fps for a 3000fps muzzle velocity. If they don't agree, I reboot each one and try again, at which point, they have always agreed. Then, I remove the MS and do my test shooting with the LR.

The cartridges I shoot range from .223 Rem to .300WSM. The LR is always able to pick up the .22 bullets, which are flat base (no experience with .22 boat tail bullets), and typically tracks them to about 50 yards. I have had the LR track .30 bullets up to 120yds. I have the Pietz accelerometer trigger, but never use it for rifle shooting because the LR pretty much never misses a shot for me. The Pietz trigger gets used for archery.

The LR is great because I get velocity on every shot while doing a rough (using 2-shot groups) OCW series of shots when developing a load. I am mainly looking for max pressure/velocity, but, since the LR doesn't touch the barrel, I get the groups for free. I then plot group size vs velocity and can quickly get a very good picture for how the gun works with that bullet and powder. I then go back and shoot 5-shot groups where I see tighter groups and a flattened velocity curve line up.

The only drawback for me with the LR, which, is as Mule Deer mentioned, is that I can't record my max velocities with my 22-250. Fastest velocity I ever recorded on the LR was 3929fps, and the 22-250 shooting a 50gn bullet will exceed that. The MS would be a benefit for these higher velocity cartridges.


Here is the basic set-up with a Kimber Montana .300WSM:

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]



A graph of the results of a rough OCW test, plus four 5-shot groups centered around 68.5gn, with an M70 Extreme Weather:
[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]



Resulting 5-shot group from the above M70 load development:

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15648818 01/12/21
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Got curious to see Mule Deer's Caldwell mount for his Magnetospeed. Since I had found the photo, I thought I might was well post it here.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Mule Deer - how hard is it to maintain alignment between the bullet path and the Magentospeed from shot to shot, and from rifle to rifle? And, if there is misalignment, does it reduce measurement accuracy, or, does the unit completely stop working so you know you have a problem before collecting a bunch of bad data?



Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15649990 01/13/21
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For you LR guys, what do you think is the optimum distance between the barrel and the side of the LR?

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: MarineHawk] #15650132 01/13/21
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Originally Posted by MarineHawk
For you LR guys, what do you think is the optimum distance between the barrel and the side of the LR?


Roughly 6" - 8" is good for me. I never saw any obvious benefit from being closer. Farther away eventually starts to introduce triggering problems and bullet path alignment errors, although you probably won't notice any negative affects until you're at least 12" away, and, then, the affects are small. Optimum distance probably depends on cartridge, muzzle attachment, and your local range conditions - how busy with other shooters, the nature of the covering over the bench, etc.

And, an inch or two in front of the muzzle works best for me, too. That is with no brake or suppressor, just a regular bare muzzle. But realize that the algorithm the LR uses assumes it is sitting even with the muzzle, so don't get too carried away on the front/back placement of the unit.


[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: shinbone] #15650231 01/13/21
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Thanks for the info, Shinbone.

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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15650303 01/13/21
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I set mine up on the right side of the rifle with the left side of the LR about 10” away, alongside the action so I can still reach the operating buttons. I use the LR base (sold separately 😊) to mount it.

i aim using the V notch on top and aim it a point somewhere between 1/2 - 2/3 of the way between the muzzle and the target. I’ve come to favor the “doppler” trigger mode and have been successful with .224 40 grain Ballistic Tips and Blitzkings up to a little under 4000 fps.

About the only time it misses a shot is when I forget to change the velocity range if I’m testing handgun and rifles at the same time or when the batteries are about gone. To conserve batteries, when I’m changing rifles I turn off the LR as I put aside one rifle and set up with another. You can also use a rechargeable battery pack.


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: shinbone] #15650336 01/13/21
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Originally Posted by shinbone
Originally Posted by MarineHawk
For you LR guys, what do you think is the optimum distance between the barrel and the side of the LR?


Roughly 6" - 8" is good for me. I never saw any obvious benefit from being closer. Farther away eventually starts to introduce triggering problems and bullet path alignment errors, although you probably won't notice any negative affects until you're at least 12" away, and, then, the affects are small. Optimum distance probably depends on cartridge, muzzle attachment, and your local range conditions - how busy with other shooters, the nature of the covering over the bench, etc.

And, an inch or two in front of the muzzle works best for me, too. That is with no brake or suppressor, just a regular bare muzzle. But realize that the algorithm the LR uses assumes it is sitting even with the muzzle, so don't get too carried away on the front/back placement of the unit.


[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

The LR has a parameter in the menu allowing you to adjust the lateral distance between the barrel and the LR, and the instructions explain specifically how to place the muzzle in relation to the fore/aft position of the LR, depending on what you’re shooting. I’ve found that it works very well to follow their instructions regarding fore/aft, and to stay roughly the lateral distance that the menu option is set for. For non-braked rifles, placing the muzzle even with the LR, and for braked rifles a couple inches behind the LR seems to work well. Putting a braked muzzle even with, or a few inches ahead of, the LR tends to result in a lot of blast hitting the LR and knocking it out of alignment. If placing a braked muzzle ahead of the
LR, I’ve had better luck placing it well ahead (like 12”).

Picking up .224” 75 AM bullets is easy to do when following the above, combined with carefully aiming the device at the target.

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: shinbone] #15650353 01/13/21
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Originally Posted by shinbone
Mule Deer - how hard is it to maintain alignment between the bullet path and the Magentospeed from shot to shot, and from rifle to rifle? And, if there is misalignment, does it reduce measurement accuracy, or, does the unit completely stop working so you know you have a problem before collecting a bunch of bad data?


I have found it easy to "maintain alignment" with the setup. I adjust the rest, and my forend rest, so the muzzle of the rifle hovers just above the V-block at the rear of the MagnetoSpeed when shooting.

It's just about impossible to get a "bad" reading with the MS. Either there's a reading or there isn't. The only times it's missed a reading is when I screwed up and the rifle's muzzle was a little too high above the V-block--which can occur if one rifle has a thicker forend than the others I'm testing, and I forget to adjust the forend rest to compensate.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: Jordan Smith] #15650395 01/13/21
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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
The LR has a parameter in the menu allowing you to adjust the lateral distance between the barrel and the LR, and the instructions explain specifically how to place the muzzle in relation to the fore/aft position of the LR, depending on what you’re shooting. I’ve found that it works very well to follow their instructions regarding fore/aft, and to stay roughly the lateral distance that the menu option is set for. For non-braked rifles, placing the muzzle even with the LR, and for braked rifles a couple inches behind the LR seems to work well. Putting a braked muzzle even with, or a few inches ahead of, the LR tends to result in a lot of blast hitting the LR and knocking it out of alignment. If placing a braked muzzle ahead of the
LR, I’ve had better luck placing it well ahead (like 12”).

Picking up .224” 75 AM bullets is easy to do when following the above, combined with carefully aiming the device at the target.


Thanks JS. I had forgotten about the "set proj. offset" setting. I just turned mine on, and it is set to 6", which means 1" - 6", which is what I've been doing--usually about 2". No brakes on any of my rifles, except for the M1A.

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: navlav8r] #15650401 01/13/21
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Originally Posted by navlav8r

About the only time it misses a shot is when I forget to change the velocity range if I’m testing handgun and rifles at the same time or when the batteries are about gone. To conserve batteries, when I’m changing rifles I turn off the LR as I put aside one rifle and set up with another. You can also use a rechargeable battery pack.

I use a cheap 30000 mAh battery pack, and it lasts many hours of use before having to recharge the pack. I have two so I have a charged spare in case one dies in the middle of a chrono session. Early in my LR ownership, I once thought my LR had developed a problem because it would intermittently pick up shots, while missing most shots. Turned out that the battery pack had been used for multiple range sessions, and the voltage was getting too low for the LR to work consistently. Swapped out the battery pack, and was back in business.

For mounting, I use an Arca mount (for quick release functionality) on a little table-top tripod. The tripod is linked below.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687341-REG/Oben_TT_100_TT_100_Table_Top_Tripod.html

Another option. I haven’t used this one, but it should also work:

https://cameralandny.com/shop/hawke...n=1450427&query=Table%20top%20tripod

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15651634 01/13/21
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I like my LabRadar and have never missed a shot with it. However, I haven't used it with any cartridges below .22 or faster than 4000 fps. If I were reloading for those cartridges much I would use a different chrono.

Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15651998 01/13/21
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I'll repost mine. I used a cheap, aluminum Lyman rest I wasn't using. I cut a notch in one lip to support the bayonet, drilled and screwed the unit to the base. I cut a hole for the cord. Not a hard to do project. Like JB said, just gotta align the bayonet with the bore and you're good to go. It's not that hard on batteries, a 9 volt will last a while. It won't miss a reading unless there isn't correct alignment with the bore. I made a tailgate bench that's long enough for the unit. One could clamp a board to a conventional bench, extended enough to hold the device. Lots of ways to "skin a cat"....

Rifle is friend's Shilen barreled 26 Nosler, B&C Medalist, Conquest scope. Gibraltar drum throne makes a great bench rest seat. Not cheap, but will last forever.

DF

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15652004 01/13/21
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I have the magnetospeed. Shot it in the back yard with a 22 and realized it was not worth my time.
Back to the Pro Chrono.




I have a CED M2, but have not bothered to open the box.
... pro chrono still working.


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: Clarkm] #15652551 01/13/21
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Yep, the consensus is the ProChrono is is the best, uh, bang for the buck, if there's room to use it.

It's also great for chronographing shotshell loads.


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Re: magnetospeed or labradar? [Re: reo] #15653126 01/13/21
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Just used the Magnetospeed today at the range. Thanks to "dirtfarmer" for the pics of your setup. I'll be on the lookup for a second rifle rest. But I wonder if my big and heavy vise might have a compatible height too. Something to check out.


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