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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,506
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,506 |
An article in Handloader some decades ago tested the .30-06 std vs. AI and iirc concluded that there was minimal difference in velocity if pressures were the same (using measurement of the pressure ring on the brass to .0001"). Looking at the Nosler manual it shows the 30-06 AI almost 3000 fps for the 180 out of 24" barrel. About 170 fps more than the regular 30-06. With the 200g there isn't much difference. If I didn't have a 300 H&H I might consider the AI. Since the 30-06 Ai has never been SAAMI-ized, I wonder if they may have been loading the AI to a bit more than the 60K limit of the parent '06. That's really the only thing that would explain a 170 FPS gain using the same 180 grain bullet in both. More like 50 FPS max would be about the most that would be expected at the same pressure as the parent case. Not that there is anything wrong at all with loading the AI (or, IMO, the parent case) to >60K PSI. I truly wish "they" would publish +P data for the 30-06 designed for modern rifles that are also suitable to the .270 Win at 65K PSI. We (the handloading community) have managed to do this safely with the 45 Colt and 45-70, for example where data are clearly delineated by the firearms class for which they are appropriate. Just my two cents, Rex
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,695
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,695 |
All I can add to this conversation is as follows..... and forgive me if it is of no interest to your question...
I have a 338/06 which was a rebore on a 270 barrel on a Model 70 LA.
A good friend has a 338/06 AI on a Ruger Long Action, and an ER Shaw chambered barrel...
We were together at the range one day with our chronographs... just ran into each other testing loads and happen to have the 338/06s with us..
We had several loads using the same powder and bullets... both with 24 inch barreled rifles..
Mine consistently had about 100 fps more velocity than his did using the same bullets and same powder... although his happened to have a few more grains loaded, it being an AI...
we both were shooting 200 and 225 grain Hornady SPs in ours...
the best accuracy was using H 380 powder for both of us...and also pretty close to top in velocity also...
Greg replaced his barrel ( and sold it) and rebarreled with a Shaw 338/06 barrel.... that one did better in velocity than the AI version
and was less fincky, being able to skip the fireforming step on the brass...
best of luck on your choice...338/06 is a damn fine caliber... my 338 mag has been a dust collector ever since...
I'd get rid of the 338 Mag, if I didn't have the flaw of not getting rid of an accurate rifle... the 338 Mag is also a Model 70... I have a 338-06. I neck up '06 brass, easy using sizer with tapered expander. All my 338-06 ammo has '06 headstamps... Don't think I'd go AI with that one. Seems to me the reward wouldn't justify the hassle.. DF That is pretty much all I do... I got a tapered expander for free from RCBS... I have ran across a few guys, who use 280 and 280 AI brass instead, and they get a little more velocity... but what they are really shooting is a 338/280 instead of a 338/06, even tho that is what they call it and what the barrel was stamped..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 425
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 425 |
I shoot both the 338-06 and the AI version. Though never very disciplined in comparing the two, I would agree that there isn't much to be gained. I knew this going in, but am just drawn to the improved cartridges. As 358WCF so aptly put it, I'm often paying for half of the reamer anyway.
I've never had occasion to shoot factory loaded ammunition in an improved chamber, nor am I terribly concerned about having to find some in a remote country store. If this is a concern, probably best to avoid any version of the 338-06. I do use A-Square brass in the AI, mostly to have the 338-06 head stamp on the case. Headspace hasn't been an issue as I always fire form cases with the bullet jammed into the lands. Though this one is a Mauser, if the action has a spring loaded ejector, I remove it. Beyond that, it never hurts to have your gunsmith check that his reamer and your FL sizing die are closely compatible.
Redding dies come with a tapered expander, as I'm sure some others do too. I've never had a failure with sizing new 30-06 brass, though fired brass can be difficult.
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 1
New Member
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New Member
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 1 |
There is a difference. 338-06 3.340 COAL 338 a square is 3.440 COAL. In many 338-06 chambers 338 a square will not chamber and if it does could increase pressure due to the fact it is close to the lands.
Another point many rifles will not cycle 338 a square - rugers being one example. If you are wanting a 338-06 or a square consider that you will need to cycle 3.440 length cartridges.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,411
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,411 |
Early in my path of .338-06 AI. 200 grain Speer for fire forming. I built it to elk hunt, I have moved away from the 185 gr. TTSX to the 160 gr. Whitetail stopper and very accurate. If I need a rifle now, this is what I carry. Pac Nor barrel on a Savage Weather Warrior donor, might not be sexy, but two shots two elk, did what I asked it to. A little heavy, but at the cost of the trips to Montana I wanted to be sure I could shoot it well. Use 35 Whelen brass. My first batch has 8 loadings on them and I see no sign of fatigue. I do anneal each use. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/NQ8bo4G.jpg)
To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.-Richard Henry Lee
Endowment Member NRA, Life Member SAF-GOA, Life-Board Member, West TN Director TFA
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,727
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,727 |
I just love the looks of the sharp shoulder/less taper to the case! I hunted a tad over 20 yrs with a 35 Whelan AI (amongst varied other calibers too) I used the original Barnes 250X (2550-2600) and the 200X (Secant Ogive, going 2970) ) on two Plains Game hunts in South Africa. Pure poison! I've used 338WM and 340Wby on PG and elk, used the Nosler 180AB in a 338 RUM on a big Aoudad in Texas. Elk with 375 H&H, traded a 375 Wby to a friend whose clients used it on eland, 270 TSX. I always set up my hunting loads on new, fireformed brass. Never had an issue. My loads (via SWAG from QuickLoad) ran around 72K, come to find out. Few people realize that alot of Weatherby factory ammo is loaded to 72-74K! However, I had an unrelated retina problem that left me with one good eye (thank God my shooting eye! ha) , so moved on to 64K loads in most rounds now, especially magnums. With the modern powders we have now, I would not mess with Ackley fireforming, just run an '06 case into the die, presto...338/06 (ala 338 A-Square) 35 Whelan same same. I enjoy shooting the bigger animals with bigger calibers SO MUCH! Too little $$$, too little time, ha
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,727
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
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Early in my path of .338-06 AI. 200 grain Speer for fire forming. I built it to elk hunt, I have moved away from the 185 gr. TTSX to the 160 gr. Whitetail stopper and very accurate. If I need a rifle now, this is what I carry. Pac Nor barrel on a Savage Weather Warrior donor, might not be sexy, but two shots two elk, did what I asked it to. A little heavy, but at the cost of the trips to Montana I wanted to be sure I could shoot it well. Use 35 Whelen brass. My first batch has 8 loadings on them and I see no sign of fatigue. I do anneal each use. These are gorgeous looking rounds friend!!!
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