|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,757
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,757 |
Experience is very important.. How ever some may be so experienced they do not realize the situations less experienced hunters face.. Another factor is the amount of time a hunter can spend in the field.. Also how plentiful game is.. Lots of time and long seasons, make shot selections much different than a 5 day season..
Molon Labe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,962
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 45,962 |
[quote=scenarshooter]
Pass on marginal shots regardless of the weapon.
Easily stated by someone that lives in elk country. For those that have to pay large sums of money to hunt an elk, and may have limited time to make an elk hunt, perhaps only once in a lifetime ......should not be restricted to “Pass on marginal shots regardless of the weapon”! And, I’m not referring to a shot of low percentage chance of hitting the necessary bullet impact location. I’m referring to using a cartridge that will drive a bullet through the vitals .....now matter the entry angle!
A proper cartridge (somewhat larger caliber), using a bullet proven to be accurate, retain a high percentage of it’s weight should be a a primary consideration for those folks, as described above! memtb
Easily stated by me regardless of where I live.....re read my post, I've been in on 200+ elk kills, and many, many of them were non residents I was guiding. I will agree that many cannot handle the recoil some of the good elk cartridges..including something as light as a 30-06. There are many people that have no business hunting elk....period, for a myriad of reasons! And it’s “ no hair off of your arse” if the client fails to kill his/her elk........it’s the non - resident client that spent thousands of $ and may potentially never have enough points to elk hunt again. As stated before......those folks should have the most cartridge that they are proficient with! It’s the hunter’s decision what that threshold is......not some outfitter/guide that doesn’t personally know the client! We shall continue to disagree! memtb This exchange again remakes my point; "everyone is entitled to an opinion, but not all opinions are equal."Pat (scenarshooter) is likely one of the more experienced NA Big Game hunters in this country, and if not, certainly here in Montana. All DIY. Apart from being a good guy, he's got more trigger/killing time than literally anyone on this forum. Indeed, not all opinions are equal... "Pass on marginal shots regardless of the weapon." Kinda hard to argue that point. Marginal with one cartridge/bullet combo, maybe very easily done with another! memtb True, but entirely misses the point and does nothing to negate "pass on marginal shots regardless of the weapon." If you choose to hunt with an open-sighted .35 Remington, you're choosing to take a pass on shots that would be easy for someone competent with a .300 Win Mag and a good scope. But you should still pass on a marginal shot with the Win Mag.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,463
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,463 |
Oh I don’t think Jordan cares, much the same as you MH. It’s mostly just the “it needs to be THIS big” or you’re leaving something on the table.
I think this is mostly what I have a problem with, especially when the position/opinion is based on a fair bit of experience with big rifles, but very little experience with smaller rifles. If a guy says, "I've killed a host of game animals with small rifles and just as many with magnums, and magnums make a noticeable difference", I can respect that even if it doesn't quite align with my own personal experience. But I find a lot of staunch magnum proponents have never given smaller rifles much of a chance, so they worry/assume that anything smaller than their magnums won't work as well, but don't have the experience to know for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
Experience is very important.. How ever some may be so experienced they do not realize the situations less experienced hunters face.. Another factor is the amount of time a hunter can spend in the field.. Also how plentiful game is.. Lots of time and long seasons, make shot selections much different than a 5 day season.. It seems like you are advocating that less experienced hunters should shoot the biggest cartridge they can find and take marginal shots. That can't possibly be what you saying.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I think a magnum with a premium bullet gives you a larger margin of error..... nothing more nothing less
The catch is for many, the recoil of the magnum causes errors....
Now if you can shoot a 300 mag with the same precision you shoot your 223, it only makes sense to take the 300 elk hunting and leave the 223 home.... simple
Or put another way take the largest gun you can shoot well.... oh and don't lie to yourself... that's what libtards do,,, don't be a libtard
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,148
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,148 |
I once drove a 130gr Etip through the hip and on into the chest of a wounded bull that was departing for parts unknown, rifle was my 270wby. Shot was about 175-200 yards so velocity was probably in the neighborhood of what a 270 Win would be doing at say 100-125 yards, just a guess but you get the idea.
Now that little piddly 130 broke one of the heaviest bones in a mature bull elk’s body as well as driving through the heavy hindquarter muscle structure. Continuing on through the paunch, liver, and a lung, probably around 3’ of penetration. Bull immediately went down in the back end and then flopped over and died.
The first shot was a good one, didn’t know it at the time just trying to get him to stop before he got out of sight. But I just can’t see how that kind of performance can be improved on in any meaningful way. The better bullets get the smaller the difference is between cartridges IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908 |
I think I know what you’re saying, but define “margin of error”? This statement is where it goes off the rails with some people. I think a magnum with a premium bullet gives you a larger margin of error..... nothing more nothing less
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,295 |
I once drove a 130gr Etip through the hip and on into the chest of a wounded bull that was departing for parts unknown, rifle was my 270wby. Shot was about 175-200 yards so velocity was probably in the neighborhood of what a 270 Win would be doing at say 100-125 yards, just a guess but you get the idea.
Now that little piddly 130 broke one of the heaviest bones in a mature bull elk’s body as well as driving through the heavy hindquarter muscle structure. Continuing on through the paunch, liver, and a lung, probably around 3’ of penetration. Bull immediately went down in the back end and then flopped over and died.
The first shot was a good one, didn’t know it at the time just trying to get him to stop before he got out of sight. But I just can’t see how that kind of performance can be improved on in any meaningful way. The better bullets get the smaller the difference is between cartridges IMO. That’s a darned good point. Today’s super bullets take some using in a little smaller cartridge to see how well they can work.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
I think I know what you’re saying, but define “margin of error”? This statement is where it goes off the rails with some people. I think a magnum with a premium bullet gives you a larger margin of error..... nothing more nothing less I can give you two real life examples.... the last bull I shot was running, maybe 100yds away, my 300mag with a 180 Nosler stopped him, I would not have taken the shot with say a 243. Another large bull at long range my buddy I both shot at and hit, he had a 270 with a cup & core, I had a 338 with a 225 X bullet. We killed it and during field dressing found his 270 slug mushroomed against the spine, didn't break it, my 338 slug put him down.
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908 |
Ok, so for you, it means comfort in some shots over a smaller cartridge.👍🏻 .308 Win is still the holy grail of elk cartridges.😀 I think I know what you’re saying, but define “margin of error”? This statement is where it goes off the rails with some people. I think a magnum with a premium bullet gives you a larger margin of error..... nothing more nothing less I can give you two real life examples.... the last bull I shot was running, maybe 100yds away, my 300mag with a 180 Nosler stopped him, I would not have taken the shot with say a 243. Another large bull at long range my buddy I both shot at and hit, he had a 270 with a cup & core, I had a 338 with a 225 X bullet. We killed it and during field dressing found his 270 slug mushroomed against the spine, didn't break it, my 338 slug put him down.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Ok, so for you, it means comfort in some shots over a smaller cartridge.👍🏻 .308 Win is still the holy grail of elk cartridges.😀 I think I know what you’re saying, but define “margin of error”? This statement is where it goes off the rails with some people. I think a magnum with a premium bullet gives you a larger margin of error..... nothing more nothing less I can give you two real life examples.... the last bull I shot was running, maybe 100yds away, my 300mag with a 180 Nosler stopped him, I would not have taken the shot with say a 243. Another large bull at long range my buddy I both shot at and hit, he had a 270 with a cup & core, I had a 338 with a 225 X bullet. We killed it and during field dressing found his 270 slug mushroomed against the spine, didn't break it, my 338 slug put him down. Agreed...... 
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,892
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,892 |
[quote=SLM]Ok, so for you, it means comfort in some shots over a smaller cartridge.👍🏻
.308 Win is still the holy grail of elk cartridges.😀
[quote=SLM]
Now there’s one for the “You Must Be Schitting Me, Private Pyle” file folder. LOL!
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 780
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 780 |
After over 1,000 comments, the fact remains, it's still one of the big 30's. 300B, the 300WN, or another 300 mag.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908 |
Negative. After over 1,000 comments, the fact remains, it's still one of the big 30's. 300B, the 300WN, or another 300 mag.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 95,781
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 95,781 |
Negative. After over 1,000 comments, the fact remains, it's still one of the big 30's. 300B, the 300WN, or another 300 mag. Correct. The "Best elk cartridge in the world" is whatever you shoot best.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908 |
Says the guy that shoots bunnies with a .416.
Windy down your way elks’?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,152
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,152 |
Says the guy that shoots bunnies with a .416.
Windy down your way elks’? Haha 😂😂
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,908 |
I keep checking back to see if any pics of the “many” elk are posted yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,007 |
Says the guy that shoots bunnies with a .416.
Windy down your way elks’? You forgot about the 460 Wby. DF
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 95,781
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 95,781 |
Says the guy that shoots bunnies with a .416.
Windy down your way elks’? Yes and I shoot bunnies with a .460 Wby.
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
|
589 members (06hunter59, 22250rem, 10gaugemag, 10gaugeman, 1minute, 160user, 66 invisible),
2,158
guests, and
1,227
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,281
Posts18,448,539
Members73,899
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
