Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire A Communion of Anxiety: Hookup Culture and the Impossible Horizon of the Future

You guys bring up a lot of good points.

I think a lot of it has to do with expectation. For me, marriage was something I thought successful people did, not something for the poor. I didn't even start looking for a wife until I had a relatively stable, good paying job. Also, sex was so available, what if I married and something better came along?

Those are both pretty FU sentiments, but they are even more common today. All that waiting for more, waiting for better is really a form of depression or causes a form of depression. You should see some of the kids I work with - yes, they have a decent job, but they have no hope or vision for the future, no idea about fulfillment. And, they even look depressed.

Both true.

And not untied to the modern interpretation of what it means to be a mother and wife. There is a lot of talk about what it means to be a man. We've heard it a million times. It means providing, working whatever job you can to put food on the table and a roof over heads. Doing whatever it takes to do the aforementioned.

Being a Mom means not dumping your kid(s) off at daycare/preschool because you have a "job" and need to be "whatever". Being a Mom is the highest calling a woman could ever have. That does NOT mean dumping your kid(s) off for someone else to raise during their formative years. It means being there with them for their first 5-6 years minimum all day, every day. If being around your kid is tiresome, or loathesome then you should have had your tubes tied and gone on pretending to be a man or working a room at a cathouse.

My opinions are based on a two parent home, which is not the norm in America anymore apparently.

Time for another beer run on your queermobile, ruckus.

I got married when neither of us had a penny to our name. Had a kid soon after. Had negative pennies to our names. Climbed out of the hole because this is America and I can.

Marriage isn't tied to money, it's tied to commitment.

I must confess that I am not up on the Men's Movement. I didn't even realize that it was a thing. But, based upon those primary drivers, I think it is a good thing that those people stay out of relationships. Relationships involve risk.

On top of everything else already mentioned, it doesn't help that the young kids nowadays have easy access to porn, and all the 'new age' BS via their gizmo.

Nothing is sacred anymore.

ol sam keen and his fire in the belly writings gave me my first glimpse of the man's movement.

to drive a little down the ditch on the side of the road, many thinks we have grown as an economy about as much as we will for a long spell. economic growth spawns marriages, babies, and debt. well, we have plenty of debt. but a bright outlook begets new household formation.

a lot of folks are living with mom and dad, and getting covered by their parents insurance until they're 26.

but still, people if healthy normally wants sex whether they get satisfied or not.

Blessings friend

Cheyenne,

I'm guessing it's been a long time since you've had exposure to the dating scene, especially as it applies in the big cities. Dating and marriage has always been complex.

The risks we are discussing are not trivial. Up to 60% of marriages ending in divorce. 80% of those filed by women. For the man getting married today without a solid prenup, that equates to roughly a 50% chance that she'll decide to take half his stuff and leave him. At least in Colorado custody is a 50/50 split, but in a place like Wyoming, the man can effectively kiss his kids good by, along with 40% of his future income in child support. Again, there are not trivial risks.

As previously mentioned social media's not helping. Several studies demonstrated a linkage between increased social media usage and increased divorce rates. My hypothesis for this is as I stated above. Women get on Facebook, think they can do better, and breakup the family. Of course all their Facebook White Knights and Simps don't really want to raise her three kids, so at the end of the day, who's the biggest looser, that's right, it's the father.

None of this happened by accident.

It’s only a reaction to society’s directions.

BGG,
And when did you get married?
Sure, that worked in your day, but watch the video I posted above. That's not what women expect. The current trend is for them to expect a man:

At least 6 feet tall. (14% of men)
Bachler's degree or greater, no trade schools, because men in the trades are "low status" (25% of men)
6 figure income (10% of men)
6 figures of home equity
6 figure bank account

How many of those had applied to you at the time you married your wife? I'm guessing maybe the 6" in height, maybe the degree, but none of the rest?
Too many modern women are not looking to build a future with a good man in the same way that your wife did. Instead, they expect to wait at the finish line, and scoop him up as he crosses, so he can rescue them from the 200k in student loans and credit card (70& of all student loan balances are held by women, and 80% of all consumer debt is held by women) after they had all their fun in their 20's hooking up and partying.

Tyrone,

Glad you did it right. Guys who follow your model, wait until they are in their 30's and established have the most options in the dating market. The current trend if for the most options to be available to guys between the ages of 32 and 36, and up to 45 depending upon their resources, and for them to snap up the most desirable women, being those between 22 and 26, with low body counts, so they have not lost their ability to pair bond, and not so educated that they have 200k in debt and unrealistic expectations regarding what men bring to the table.

Of course this leave a lot of highly educated, debt ridden bitter 30+ year old women who can't find a man to meet their white knight standards, unless they are willing to look to guys 20+ years older. This will be very good for the market for cat food and pet toys, but not so good for sales of double cemetery plots, unless one is for her cat.

Where in the hell did you get 35?

Well, you're right, I have not had any personal exposure to the dating scene other than being around some younger people who are in it.

As far as child support goes, that is going to hit someone whether he is married or not and whether he gets custody or visitation or not. Hookup guy can still get nailed with that. As far as property splits go, Wyoming is weird compared to the other place I lived, which was a community property state with some cut and dried rules that pretty much let each person keep their separate property and split the community property. (Side note: you seem to be assuming that most or all of the property was brought in by the man rather than through reciprocal effort, so he is losing "his" stuff rather than divvying up their stuff.) That will vary from place to place, and a pre-nup may be a good idea if state law is bad or if there is a disparity of assets going in. It is especially important in a second marriage, which has a higher divorce rate, usually involves kids, and may involve disparate assets.

Women today most desire a man between the ages of 32 and 36, so why not wait until they are ready to chase you?

Cheyenne, you make some good points. Yes, I'm presupposing that in the majority of instances the man will bring more assets and earning power to the relationship. In general, men choose women for their beauty, and women choose men for their status. Women marry men of equal or higher status. The technical term for this is hypergamy, and occurs in the vast majority of marriages. Unfortunately the biggest thing women are bringing to relationships today is debt. They have 70% of the student loan debt, while men hold the higher paying degrees, which feeds into the next stat, they also hold 80% of the credit card debt.

So on average, a man getting married today can expect the woman to have twice the student loan debt, 4x his consumer debt, and few assets, and lower earning potential. Of course this is not always the case, but it is the median case. Today, two of the worst things for a marriage is the man pay off all his wife's debt, or the woman getting promoted to a position faster then her husband. Both strongly correlate with increased divorce rates.

AS, I’ve read all of your posts on this thread...and they remind me of this...“If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” - Matthew 19:10.

Tell your sons, tell your grandsons....best to be careful out there and to choose wisely.

Oh, no! I think I did it fairly wrong!

On the positive side, I don't think I could have found a better wife. So I didn't do it completely wrong. But, it took me that long to figure out what a good woman is like, or, I was too caught up in chasing sex, not believing that I'd ever find the right woman. I think culture is totally counterproductive to the formation of stable families. I finally had to say in my own mind "screw all that stuff, I have to do what I think is right".

Another misconception is that you have to be rich or well off to be happily married. Sure, it helps, especially for materialistic individuals. But it sure isn't totally true as BillyGoatGruff pointed out. He had the sense that I lacked and as a result, he has gotten to have many more happy years devoted to a wife and family than I have.

My wife sometimes says "If we could have just met 10 years earlier." Personally, I don't think it would have done any good. I would have foolishly wrote her off in pursuit of something "better".

Tyrone,
I respect your humility. Sure you may have bumbled along a bit, as we all do, but in the end, results matter. I'm glad things are working out for you. I wish you and your wife many more happy years together.