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Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win #15671669 01/18/21
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nyrifleman Offline OP
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Came across this Model 70 this morning thought some of you might be interested in a little eye candy.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/58/403/winchester-70-rifle-284-win


“We do not really own high grade guns, we are only their curator for our lifetime.” - Rich Grozik
BP-B2

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15671713 01/18/21
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beretzs Offline
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Darn, now that’s pretty cool. No idea if it is real or not but if I had the extra jingle I’d love to hunt and shoot it!


Semper Fi
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15671724 01/18/21
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nyrifleman Offline OP
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At 17k+ someone thought it is legit.

Steve Barnett sold a pre-64 Featherweight in 7x57 a while back.

Should have downloaded the pictures.



“We do not really own high grade guns, we are only their curator for our lifetime.” - Rich Grozik
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15671819 01/18/21
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That’s pretty neat. I love the P64’s and the 7x57 has always been one of my wants. That 284 Featherweight is too darned cool though. I’d be the guy taking it hunting though... It’s too much of a sweet rifle to leave condemned to a dark safe.


Semper Fi
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15672061 01/18/21
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Poconojack Offline
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Never catalogued.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: Poconojack] #15672264 01/18/21
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260Remguy Offline
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Originally Posted by Poconojack

Never catalogued.


Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15672532 01/18/21
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TSIBINDI Offline
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...according to Rule's book, page 264: Reported Non-standard Chamberings, the .284Win was one the verified factory original calibers. Nearly all of the verified non-standard chamberings were in either the Standard Rifle or a Target rifle style. Featherweight ??

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: 260Remguy] #15672737 01/18/21
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Poconojack Offline
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Originally Posted by 260Remguy
Originally Posted by Poconojack

Never catalogued.


Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.


Very little (if any) documentation exists for almost all pre64 M70’s. VO’s and a few notable special order guns are the only exception’s.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15672900 01/18/21
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Without rock solid documentation I wouldn't touch it. Ever since the person who bought out the old Winchester factory released the roll stamps there is no way I would trust un-cataloged guns. You also have to be very cautious buying M1903 and 03-A3 Springfields. The CMP sold a bunch of drill guns / receivers and people are rebuilding them without heat treating the previously welded areas. Counterfieting is at an all time high in every area. Too much technology and not enough morals!


PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor Member
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: Poconojack] #15672958 01/18/21
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260Remguy Offline
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Originally Posted by Poconojack

Originally Posted by 260Remguy
[quote=Poconojack]
Never catalogued.


Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.


Very little (if any) documentation exists for almost all pre64 M70’s. VO’s and a few notable special order guns are the only exception’s.[/quo

In the absence of factory documentation, I'd want a letter from a recognized expert to validate that it is what it appears to be. A rare, highly collectable rifle in a non-cataloged configuration without any provenance raises red flags for me. The are probably as many unscrupulous people in the used gun business as there are in the used car business.

When I bought a rifle that was sold to me as having belonged to Larry Koller, I reached out to Larry's son, Paul, to seek confirmation that it truly was his father's property. Fortunately for me, Paul recognized the rifle and provided me with a signed letter attesting to its authenticity.

IC-B

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15672985 01/18/21
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nyrifleman Offline OP
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Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.

The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?


“We do not really own high grade guns, we are only their curator for our lifetime.” - Rich Grozik
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15672992 01/18/21
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nyrifleman Offline OP
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“We do not really own high grade guns, we are only their curator for our lifetime.” - Rich Grozik
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15673022 01/18/21
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If I had that kinda dough I wouldn't sweat it, I'd buy the .284 put a red a pad on it and go hunting!

Last edited by handwerk; 01/18/21.
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15673055 01/18/21
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260Remguy Offline
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Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.

The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?


I've bought from and sold to Steve Barnett and Dave Riffle and would trust them not to knowingly sell counterfeits. But that still amounts to an "I think" rather than an "I know" IMO.

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15687605 01/21/21
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The two broad areas of problems nowadays concerning the pricey "rarities", real & perceived. Intrinsic, the gun itself as amply noted in this Thread. The external one, the often demonstrated willingness of buyers to acquire guns on the flimsiest of supporting evidence. Uncommon to rare big bucks 'pre' series Model 70 rifles sold nowadays, typically flowery written assertions, a few pix... and a prayer!

The inverse of "rarity as desirable"; rarity as increased odds of it being fake worthy! Caveat emptor, similar multiple!

Then too, what is "fake". At what point is a pre Win 70 "non-original"? Technically for instance, such as stock swap from like sub genre Model pre 70 rifles, 'drop in' achievable. Donor: Plain Jane rifle, common chamberings, standard model stock. Recipient: same Standard Model rifle, rare chambering for instance with (ugh) aftermarket pad. Swap alert! Potential screwdriver, instant "return to original"! Is it really? Of course not. Can even an expert tell, condition/era factors equal, typically not. Unethical, yes. Lucrative, you bet! Pinging on 'profit motive' factor as swap, 'no brainer'. The same thing with barrels, receivers, and most all components. Tech term, parts "fungible", aka swapable. As Winchester built these rifle postwar, ever increasing pressure for "fungible", less hand intensive labor generic 'fitment'. Experts, understand exactly what's swappable and those 'less ethical' swap the heck out of our Pre '64 genre Model 70 rifles!
As the 'tree falling in the forest with no one to 'hear'... So the stock deftly swapped by 'drop in', were no one able to discern... Another context, of the Super Grade genre, the are likely more factually non-factory original particularly in such as the prewar genre of non-bridge D&T, than originals! There, an "S" stamp under original barrels, more non-"S" stamped SG rifles today, than not! The rule, where there's high value, there's a faker!

I hope not too boring, this dissertation!
My take!
Best & Stay safe!
John



Last edited by iskra; 01/21/21.
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: 260Remguy] #15687790 01/21/21
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model70man Offline
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Originally Posted by 260Remguy
Originally Posted by Poconojack

Never catalogued.


Without a factory letter to document its provenance, I am highly skeptical of rare cataloged and any non-cataloged configuration firearm. There are plenty of counterfeit pre-'64 Winchesters out there waiting for a gullible buyer who has money and wants to believe the story. I believe that reputable sellers who handle rare guns should care enough to document provenance before offering them for sale. When supposedly knowledgeable gun people are offering rare guns without supporting documentation, I always ask myself why and what are they hiding.


I wonder if it came out of Florida? Caveat emptor!


NRA Benefactor Member.

We need a good house cleaning at NRA Headquarters starting with Wayne LaPierre and the rest of his cronies. The same thing we need to do in Congress. We've supported these drones for years. No more for me.
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15688096 01/21/21
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Around the rear sight dovetail on the 7MM there is what looks like a square or rectangular shaped, light discoloration. I’m no expert in 70’s, but is that normal or perhaps from picture taking?

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15688582 01/22/21
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Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Steve Barnett seems to have an excellent reputation.

The fact that he sold the7x57 as original would be provenance in and of itself, no?

Yep. If Barnett says it is, then it is..


Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, Winston Churchill paid to hunt....
Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15688774 01/22/21
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I like the Pre-64 Fwt, but would want a shooter, have no desire for a collector.

If I started shooting a collector, it would become a high priced shooter. I’ll take mine after that initial depreciation.

DF

Re: Pre-64 Featherweight. 284 Win [Re: nyrifleman] #15690096 01/22/21
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Don't know when Barnett supposedly said what, but he has been dead for several months.

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