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Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15673198 01/18/21
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19352012: Thank you for sharing that moment and photo with me (us).
Having just gone through similar situations with my parents and my wifes parents I sincerely commiserate with you and your loved ones.
Your father, there, looked so healthy body wise I am just saddened he did not live longer.
It reminds me again of the Roman Emperors (Marcus Aurelius - and later by Steve Jobs!) often quoted utterance "live every day as if it were your last, because someday you will surely be right"!
Thank you again for sharing that.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

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Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15673244 01/18/21
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Prayers sent.


~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15673255 01/18/21
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So sorry for what you are going through. Prayers sent, may you find an answer to your situation

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675317 01/18/21
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well the doctor at the hospital said its time ...seems she signed some papers years back/ before she was headed to the nursing home>>> no feeding tube was to be used. I guess that settles that. Both my brothers were there at the time when she did this (((I was a course up here out of sight out of mind))).. looks like they're taking her back to the nursing home and then we wait this ain't good ....she can't swallow, cant operate tongue they got her on morphine.... dam....love u mom ...


This beer taste like I'm not going to work tomorrow......🥁
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675328 01/18/21
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Damn tough deal.


Seems cruel.....but its really not....in the long run.

IC-A

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675332 01/18/21
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My prayers for you all. 🙏

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675375 01/18/21
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Prayers sent for you and yours.it s a tough,tough thing.

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675432 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by atvalaska
well the doctor at the hospital said its time ...seems she signed some papers years back/ before she was headed to the nursing home>>> no feeding tube was to be used. I guess that settles that. Both my brothers were there at the time when she did this (((I was a course up here out of sight out of mind))).. looks like they're taking her back to the nursing home and then we wait this ain't good ....she can't swallow, cant operate tongue they got her on morphine.... dam....love u mom ...

Atvalaska,

It's none of my business who the medical power of attorney is, etc. Let me just throw this out as a layman who went through this.

Some doctors and/or hospitals take control of situations that really aren't their right to do so ethically if not legally, (maybe a lawyer in your area can speak to that.). They are used to 98% taking their advice and trusting them in these matters. Although some here surely disagree, and would rather the patient's directive be the all deciding factor.....That said, when I read some of these, the directives, or legal docs that spell these things out are usually vague and the average person has no idea what they are reading.

For instance, for ease of discussion, would you consider an infant baby, who feeds on mothers milk, to consider special medical treatment and care to have that milk? What if the child was separated from water/nurishment (milk), sedated and parents told by a hospital that it would not be in that child's best interest due to the possibility that it might die from ...(fill in the blank) and would maybe not recover fully from lets say high fever, thus ending up with brain damage.... perhaps.

Keep in mind that some states have politicians with no moral compass pass legislation that does this exact thing to adults in need of basic human needs like water, nurishment, etc. Some states consider food and water in the same definition as intubation. IF she were my Mom, I would want to read the records and that document. Then decide based on your mom and your morals, disregarding hospital and they re staff policies.
Any brothers/sisters will need leadership from you. Someone who cares most and has ethics (a moral compass), as it sounds that you do, should lead as is fitting. Whatever details that entails is your right to know. Then seek help/direction from a trusted spiritual leader like your pastor if you want. I've had a very moral good friend as a hospital social worker that I knew for years, but must say that the others I've talked with were just mouth pieces for the hospital admin.

My dad was in this condition comatose on more than one occasion and I had to fight my family and his worthless doctor on this. I hired a physician that did things my way (the only one besides the Lord who actually cared). He was a month like that, but pulled through. He got some HOME assistance from the only family member who fought to keep him out of the nursing home. He recovered and ended up healthier, happier, off the harmful meds and lived the best years of his life after that.

I don't offer false hope, just the realistic perspective that lots of people recover from strokes and sometimes even it's the sedation that keeps patients from swallowing or awaking.
I've witnessed speaking patients that could shake my hand and hold conversations, yet were not allowed so much as a sip of water because of hospital policy.
I'd ask why and nurses would say,
Excuses like, "oh, they are (at risk) of choking."
I ask, if it's that much a risk, then why the hell doesn't he/she have an IV ???"

"Oh, um that's a medical directive of no resuscitation/special medical devices..."

Those staff members who kill people that way are like .......
You get the idea.
Even if there's a "slim chance", and the doctors have No idea, The patients have zero chance of recovery if they are dehydrated to death.

I will pray for your strength and God's direction in this as well as your Mom.


Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
Are you absolutely 100% sure that you will go to heaven if something happens today?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/WuMTe9l6nzM
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: HuntnShoot] #15675929 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
You're asking an internet forum?

I feel for you, but this is a decision of your conscience, and how you will honor your mother.

We all die. Maybe it is her time. I've dealt enough with death to know that we honor people when we let them choose their time to go. Sometimes, people need a bit of help to get past their own fears, Whether for their own death, or for the death of a loved one.

My father degraded with Alzheimer's for several years, eventually getting quite difficult to manage, as he was unable to feed himself, would schit everywhere, and then got violent. My step mother, who had taken care of him, finally was at the end of her rope. My two brothers and I convinced her to take a break, and put him in a home for a couple months. We all knew what the outcome would be. We all knew it was his time to go, but he couldn't leave his wife for some reason. We each did some serious soul-searching before recommending that course. He was in the home for four weeks when he passed. We did the thing that felt right to us. Much of the time, life (and death) don't look pretty. That doesn't mean we haven't done the right thing. Life is just messy.


I think the problem may not be dying, but starving her.
Dayom. Prayers sent.


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

DONT BE GETTING ANY CORONA ON YA

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: jaguartx] #15675952 01/19/21
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Sometimes one needs to vent.

I am amazed at how many folks have gone thru the same type of ordeal on this forum.

Sometimes it helps.

IC-B

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675966 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by atvalaska
well the doctor at the hospital said its time ...seems she signed some papers years back/ before she was headed to the nursing home>>> no feeding tube was to be used. I guess that settles that. Both my brothers were there at the time when she did this (((I was a course up here out of sight out of mind))).. looks like they're taking her back to the nursing home and then we wait this ain't good ....she can't swallow, cant operate tongue they got her on morphine.... dam....love u mom ...

I'm sorry you and your family have to go through this. praying for you.

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675984 01/19/21
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It depends on the hospice and how they operate. I hate to see a terminal patient dehydrate or starve. If fluids make them feel better why Is that bad. Don’t see it as prolonging the inevitable, just making someone more comfortable.

Some hospice people seem like death Nazi’s. I don’t like that or them. If you feel like that’s what’s happening, step in and go another direction. End of life is never easy. But there are ways to take care of it, ways not to.

Go with the peace and your gut.

DF

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15675999 01/19/21
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I've seen that - Dad actually put himself in a nursing home, after his second stroke.
He couldn't drive himself to and from meals in town (~ 3 miles), and was too ornery to keep help in the house.
He was in the home for 3 years, got pretty decent care, my siblings and I tried to do the "Raton Jailbreak" whenever possible.
We'd take him to a restaurant for some decent food, then either up to the ranch, or for a drive around the countryside - whichever he preferred.
His 4th stroke killed him. All my siblings (6) and I agree that he died at a good time - just before the Covid disrupted everything.
He'd have been worse than a bear locked in a cage, if no one could visit, or break him out.
Death is a sad deal, but it visits us all.


I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15676034 01/19/21
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I just went through this last month with my mom. Once she couldn't eat or drink on her own, she passed in her sleep about a week later. While she was still somewhat lucid, I had the chance to tell her that I loved her and that she had been a good mom and that I would miss her and that I would be OK. That's all your mom wants to hear right now - tell her if you can.

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: joken2] #15676136 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by joken2

Wife's dad had a pretty serious stroke in his mid 70s. He had a formal 'Do Not Resuscitate' order. Neurosurgeon told us 'what you see now is the best he's ever going to get and from here on your dad is only going to get worse'.

Wife moved him from hospital to a local nursing home and stayed with her dad every day from early morning to bedtime at night hand feeding him herself and making sure he was properly cared for, medicated and kept clean. This went on for around six months until when he went on Hospice and we moved him to a spare bedroom in our home until he passed not long after.

Her dad could swallow soft food and liquids on his own but took more time to eat than short handed nursing home staff had for the number of patients they had to feed and care for in the allotted time, plus the stroke left him with no feeling on one side of his face so he could possibly choke on any unswallowed food still on the paralyzed side.






I'll add too that I thought I knew what so-called 'quality of life' meant but, after watching my wife's dad during his last days, I learned that it may not mean the same for everyone.

In his last few weeks my wife's dad would sleep all but a very few hours.

When he did wake up he would happily tell of having been visiting with long deceased family members and old friends. They, including himself, were all young, healthy and happy in these 'visits'. He'd recount names of who all was there, things said and done - some funny, etc.

Dreams or true spiritual visits I can't say, but I do believe they were some of his happiest, most peaceful moments, both after as well as before the debilitating stroke that finally took him.

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15676555 01/19/21
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Kathleen Blanco, former LA governor, had eye cancer that spread to her brain.

As she lay in a coma, someone had the idea of giving her therapeutic marijuana. She reportedly perked up, started eating, was able to converse with family, died peacefully a few days later.

I know some hospice doctors use therapeutic MJ for their terminal patients. In some cases it seems to help, may not be for everyone.

Just a thought.

DF

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: joken2] #15676740 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by joken2

Originally Posted by joken2

Wife's dad had a pretty serious stroke in his mid 70s. He had a formal 'Do Not Resuscitate' order. Neurosurgeon told us 'what you see now is the best he's ever going to get and from here on your dad is only going to get worse'.

Wife moved him from hospital to a local nursing home and stayed with her dad every day from early morning to bedtime at night hand feeding him herself and making sure he was properly cared for, medicated and kept clean. This went on for around six months until when he went on Hospice and we moved him to a spare bedroom in our home until he passed not long after.

Her dad could swallow soft food and liquids on his own but took more time to eat than short handed nursing home staff had for the number of patients they had to feed and care for in the allotted time, plus the stroke left him with no feeling on one side of his face so he could possibly choke on any unswallowed food still on the paralyzed side.






I'll add too that I thought I knew what so-called 'quality of life' meant but, after watching my wife's dad during his last days, I learned that it may not mean the same for everyone.

In his last few weeks my wife's dad would sleep all but a very few hours.

When he did wake up he would happily tell of having been visiting with long deceased family members and old friends. They, including himself, were all young, healthy and happy in these 'visits'. He'd recount names of who all was there, things said and done - some funny, etc.

Dreams or true spiritual visits I can't say, but I do believe they were some of his happiest, most peaceful moments, both after as well as before the debilitating stroke that finally took him.


My mom also talked to some of her siblings during her final days, some of them who died many years ago. She also talked to her mom. It was kind of weird. Makes you wonder what goes on in someone's mind as they are fading away.

Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: jaguartx] #15676839 01/19/21
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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
You're asking an internet forum?

I feel for you, but this is a decision of your conscience, and how you will honor your mother.

We all die. Maybe it is her time. I've dealt enough with death to know that we honor people when we let them choose their time to go. Sometimes, people need a bit of help to get past their own fears, Whether for their own death, or for the death of a loved one.

My father degraded with Alzheimer's for several years, eventually getting quite difficult to manage, as he was unable to feed himself, would schit everywhere, and then got violent. My step mother, who had taken care of him, finally was at the end of her rope. My two brothers and I convinced her to take a break, and put him in a home for a couple months. We all knew what the outcome would be. We all knew it was his time to go, but he couldn't leave his wife for some reason. We each did some serious soul-searching before recommending that course. He was in the home for four weeks when he passed. We did the thing that felt right to us. Much of the time, life (and death) don't look pretty. That doesn't mean we haven't done the right thing. Life is just messy.


I think the problem may not be dying, but starving her.
Dayom. Prayers sent.

You've got a big heart Jaguar tx..... ethics too.

Last edited by Happy_Camper; 01/19/21.

Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
Are you absolutely 100% sure that you will go to heaven if something happens today?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/WuMTe9l6nzM
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: jaguartx] #15676930 01/19/21
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Jaguartx,

If in Atv's shoes, I would want someone with ethics in my court to inform me of options and notify the institution of orders if any needed. After talking to a friend who was a separate hospital head administrator, he told me that I needed a physician like that when facing a similar situation. The hospitalized family member was unable to speak for himself, his VA "Dr could care less and did. It was difficult scrambling to find a physician to help at that point. It was a battle with the hospital when I went to move him out to a better facility.

Last edited by Happy_Camper; 01/19/21.

Man's Greatest Need.... because life is short.
Are you absolutely 100% sure that you will go to heaven if something happens today?
You can be:
https://youtu.be/WuMTe9l6nzM
Re: Mom in nursing home ..just had stroke..help [Re: atvalaska] #15677229 01/19/21
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Praying for your Mom and you. Sorry you have to go through this.

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