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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15684162 01/20/21
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southtexas Offline
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1978?? Is that a typo?

BP-B2

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: DBoston] #15684165 01/20/21
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Originally Posted by DBoston
Originally Posted by TxHunter80
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
MHWASH,

In my experience the present versions of both the SST and Ballistic Tip work very similarly, penetrating well even though they can mess up some meat, and retaining around 50% of their weight, give or take about 10%.


Has Hornady made changes to the SST in the last few years?


They made the changes PDQ as they got lots of complaints. I think it was the first or second year of production for the SST's.

The Nosler's were changed when they started making a distinction between the Hunting BT and the Varmint BT. I tried to verify when this was done but couldn't pin the date down exactly but around 1978 so it has been awhile. This was also when Nosler went from the 100 bullet to the 50 bullet packaging and changed the color of the box. They also color coded the tips at about the same time.

Nosler didnt make BT's in 1978. I believe the came out around 1985. They came in a red and green box of 100. Some time in the early 90's they where toughened. The first ones where not bad deer bullets at all.

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15684181 01/20/21
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Looking at sectioned views of both bullets I would have thought the Ballistic Tips on average would have been the tougher bullet with their heavier jackets. Maybe Hornady use a harder lead alloy.

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: southtexas] #15684224 01/20/21
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Originally Posted by southtexas
1978?? Is that a typo?


That or an anheuser moment.

Ballistic tips have only been around for about 25 years. The thicker jackets came out around sometime near 2009 as best I can tell. By 2010 almost all of the heavier ones were the Hunting version.

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: Mule Deer] #15684326 01/20/21
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
MHWASH,

In my experience the present versions of both the SST and Ballistic Tip work very similarly, penetrating well even though they can mess up some meat,...



Yeah, I have shot animals with both SST and NBT, and the result is about the same, but I keep buying NBT.


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IC-A

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: DBoston] #15684769 01/21/21
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Originally Posted by DBoston
Originally Posted by southtexas
1978?? Is that a typo?


That or an anheuser moment.

Ballistic tips have only been around for about 25 years. The thicker jackets came out around sometime near 2009 as best I can tell. By 2010 almost all of the heavier ones were the Hunting version.


Ballistic Tips appeared in the mid-1980s.

The first thick-jacket model was the 200-grain .338, which appeared in the early 1990s.


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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: DBoston] #15684774 01/21/21
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Originally Posted by DBoston

Ballistic tips have only been around for about 25 years. The thicker jackets came out around sometime near 2009 as best I can tell. By 2010 almost all of the heavier ones were the Hunting version.


Ballistic Tips came out 37 years ago (1984). https://www.nosler.com/nosler-history

I started using the .308 150's in 1989 and found them wicked killers on deer with never anything except a pass through. And those were the early, more "fragile" version.

As to jacket thickness, I doubt there's a hard date as to when jackets were beefed up. Some caliber/weight's have gone through three or four (or more) iterations. However, I'd agree that certainly everything since 2010 has probably been brought up to speed.

Suffice to say, there's not one "hunting" ballistic Tip I'd hesitate to use on elk.


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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: Elvis] #15684854 01/21/21
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Originally Posted by Elvis
Looking at sectioned views of both bullets I would have thought the Ballistic Tips on average would have been the tougher bullet with their heavier jackets. Maybe Hornady use a harder lead alloy.

And an Interlock ring FWIW.


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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15684945 01/21/21
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Im another one that hasn't used the bullets in a .270 ( duh...) but I shoot the 150 NBT in my .275 Rigby...have killed critters up to 325 pounds and have complete penetration on all of them. Excellent performance in my book.

Last edited by ingwe; 01/21/21.

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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15684975 01/21/21
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Some misinformation on here. Been using NBTs since 1984.

Brad is correct, the BTs came out in 1984, maybe even 1983 for a few calibers despite what their website says. I loaded the first 7mm 150s in 1984 and killed a buck with em in the 7RM. The gun store clerk even told me to load em hot since his experience on deer was they were tough in the 30 cal. This was in the summer of 84 so he might have used em the season before? Anyhow my friend wanted to shoot them too so he bought the dies and 180BTs for his 300 Weatherby and he shot a buck that year too.

I still have one older box of the 7mm 150s and maybe an older box of the 30 cal 180s I'll post up later.

The 7mms and 30 cal BTs were never a varmint bullet as claimed by some. I killed alot of antelope, deer and bears with the 7mm 120, 140, 150 and 30 165s BTs and they never do as much meat damage as Sierras GKs of the same weights


Hell, I was there too! (for the most part anyways)

IC-B

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15684994 01/21/21
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Never used BTs given their initial reputation so although i do load them now, I've never used them on game. I have used the SST180s out of my 303 on deer at ranges from 40-150 yards. complete pass through and good sized exit holes reflecting controlled expansion.

Last edited by jorgeI; 01/21/21.

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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15685010 01/21/21
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So have you never used em on game or you have used them on deer?

Not trying to be a smartazz just asking for clarification.


The horned toad says we should go to Mexico.
Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: 10gaugemag] #15685018 01/21/21
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Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
So have you never used em on game or you have used them on deer?

Not trying to be a smartazz just asking for clarification.

Thank you for pointing out the mistake. I've edited to reflect. smile


Teddy Roosevelt, John Wayne, Winston Churchill paid to hunt....
Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MtnHtr] #15685244 01/21/21
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MtnHtr,

The 140 7mm was also good to go from the beginning, according to the late Chub Eastman, who for years was the contact for writers at Nosler. I started using them in the late 1980s, and never recovered one.

But he also told me that Nosler did tweak some of the early "hunting" Ballistic Tips after they were introduced, mostly by using a harder core alloy.

The "heavy jacket" Ballistic Tips I mentioned earlier did start with the 200-grain .338, which I believe was introduced in 1992 or 1993. Do know for sure they were around in 1993 because that's when first I field-tested some sent to me by Nosler for that purpose. The jacket was MUCH thicker through the base area than previous Ballistic Tips.

In general the really heavy-jacket BTs have a jacket weighing around 2/3 to 3/4 of the entire weight of the bullet, while in the typical hunting BTs it's around half the bullet's weight. Some of the other hunting BTs have been converted to the heavier jacket over the years, and others introduced. If I recall correctly, all the hunting Ballistic Tips from the 165-grain .30 caliber up now have the heavy jacket. One of my local friends shot a cow elk 2-3 years ago with the 165 from his .300 Weatherby. The cow stood facing him at 100-150 yards, and the bullet was recovered from the hide over the rump.


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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: Mule Deer] #15686477 01/21/21
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MD,

Good to know and appreciate your comments. Yes, the 7mm 140 NBT is a great bullet. Accurate as can be and kills very well. Ime it wrecks a little better than the 120gr NBT which is also a great bullet. I did section both bullets many yrs ago and it appeared the 120 was slightly thicker in the frontal section. I later spoke with Chub Eastman and he assured me both bullets are the same except the 120 was just shorter. Might have been the camera angle and my filing skills?

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

I did collect a 7mm 120gr, it lodged in the off side scapula of a running buck I killed (a great running boar type shot), both cup and core separated but were recovered close to each other.

I met a B&C measurer by the name of James Tonkin Jr about 23yrs ago who had an impressive collection of NA trophies. He was like a modern day Grancel Fritz, his house was adourned with B&C trophies galore. I had not tried the 7mm 140NBT at that time but what was interesting is that this gentleman used the 7mm 140NBT in his custom XP 100 handguns for many of his trophies. He took at least one nice tule elk bull with the combo and many impressive trophies. James was a rifle looney of first order and his reloading room had more bullets on the shelf than most gun stores. One thing stood out, I noticed James had a more than ample supply of 7mm 140gr BTs and only a few Nosler PTs in 140 on his shelf. It was very obvious he was very fond of the 140BT for the 7-08. IIRC he had just purchased a 7-08 for his wife but it "was going back" due to issues. Anyhow here are a few of his 7mm 140gr trophies:
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
One interesting note on the above elk. F&G regs only state a minimum rifle caliber for big game iirc. At the required pre hunt meeting for the lucky elk tag holders it seemed the head F&G biologist took issue with Jame's intentions to use a 7-08 handgun to take a tule elk. He had to arrange a range session with several of the skeptical F&G mgrs to prove his proficiency. Long story short he put his bull down with one shot using the 7mm 140gr NBT from his handgun.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Another fan of the 7mm 140gr NBT was Darrell Holland, a rifle smith from OR. He used it with great success on many types of African plains game, almost all were one shot kills iirc. He sent me these and other pics around 2003. All taken with the 7mm 140BT in 7-08AI

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

And don't forget Steve Timm as well, he was fond of the 7mm 120gr BT. Iirc he took a bull elk with that bullet though I would have used the 140BT myself.


Hell, I was there too! (for the most part anyways)

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15688234 01/21/21
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Years ago like 20 I tried a 165gr BT 30-06 was the rifle on a blacktail buck. Quartering towards me 100 yds. Long story shot it blew up on the surface left a football sized patch of meat exposed. My buddy next to me killed it. Never again one and done. Shot lots of great bullets over the years, that particular Federal Premium 165gr Nosler BT was a pile of crap.


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Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: Elvis] #15688251 01/21/21
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Originally Posted by Elvis
Originally Posted by BKinSD
I'm glad to read this. I bought a box of 130gr .277 SST's back when I first started handloading and found them to be violently frangible, and never even considered Hornady bullets after that experience. Horrible blowups and chasing critters around...not my idea of fun, or anyone's. I might give them a try again knowing this. Thanks.



Don't disregard all Hornady bullets after the SST experience. The good old Interlock is a great deer bullet. It is my preferred lead tip cup and core bullet that I always go to first.


I second this. I don't like SST's either. Too fragile. But not all Hornady bullets are the same. The regular old lead tipped interlocks have been one of my favorite bullets for deer. I have used the 117 grain interlock for a long time out of my 25-06 and have never recovered a bullet. Close shots, angled shots, you name it. They just zipped on through. They have also been a consistantly accurate bullet for me as well.

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: Shag] #15689985 01/22/21
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Originally Posted by Shag
Years ago like 20 I tried a 165gr BT 30-06 was the rifle on a blacktail buck. Quartering towards me 100 yds. Long story shot it blew up on the surface left a football sized patch of meat exposed. My buddy next to me killed it. Never again one and done. Shot lots of great bullets over the years, that particular Federal Premium 165gr Nosler BT was a pile of crap.


Shag,

As you know my experiences with the early Nosler 165gr BT was stellar. Dropped several muleys with no issues at all. Killed a few bears with em too.


Hell, I was there too! (for the most part anyways)

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: MHWASH] #15693613 01/23/21
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It's interesting to read of folks having good performance in the early days of BTs with the 140 7mm. I loaded those for an antlerless mule deer tag in 1992 in my 7RM. I shot a doe through the lungs broadside at under 100 yards and the bullet really blew up. I found the leadless shredded jacket under the offside hide and a few little bits of lead. It was a dramatic bang-flop but didn't even hit a rib on the way in. I still have all those parts in my collection. I swore off BTs after that, as did many of the respondents here.
But after reading of their greatly improved performance these days, I used the 140 BT in the .270 WSM to take an antelope and mule deer in MT in 2019, and the 200 CTBS (Just the 200 BT with a black coating) to take a MT whitetail buck and doe in 2020 with the .338-06. All these worked fine.
I only have some early, fragile, SSTs - 150 gr .308s, and while I have loaded some in the .308 Win, I've not hunted them and probably won't based on reports of the early bullets' fragility. But I hear the same about the current version as the BT - much stronger now. Do they put the little Interlock ring in the SSTs now?

Thanks,
Rex

Re: Which is tougher 150 SST or BT? [Re: TRexF16] #15693734 01/23/21
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Originally Posted by TRexF16
It's interesting to read of folks having good performance in the early days of BTs with the 140 7mm. I loaded those for an antlerless mule deer tag in 1992 in my 7RM. I shot a doe through the lungs broadside at under 100 yards and the bullet really blew up. I found the leadless shredded jacket under the offside hide and a few little bits of lead. It was a dramatic bang-flop but didn't even hit a rib on the way in. I still have all those parts in my collection. I swore off BTs after that, as did many of the respondents here.
But after reading of their greatly improved performance these days, I used the 140 BT in the .270 WSM to take an antelope and mule deer in MT in 2019, and the 200 CTBS (Just the 200 BT with a black coating) to take a MT whitetail buck and doe in 2020 with the .338-06. All these worked fine.
I only have some early, fragile, SSTs - 150 gr .308s, and while I have loaded some in the .308 Win, I've not hunted them and probably won't based on reports of the early bullets' fragility. But I hear the same about the current version as the BT - much stronger now. Do they put the little Interlock ring in the SSTs now?

Thanks,
Rex


I don’t know if a new 140 BT will do any better than what you described. If that bullet made it all the way through and rebounded off the hide from a 7 Mag that’s about I’d hope for with any cup and core.

I’ve seen BTs do the same thing a number of times from the 95 to the 180 BT.

And I’m not saying you’re wrong or anything I just mean I doubt a newer BT probably wouldn’t act much different.


Semper Fi
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