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I have had three of them. Two were the M70 Super Grades of about 1971 vintage. 22" barrels. In Australia they were priced just under a Mark V Deluxe in 300 Wby at the time. A 375 M70 was midway between the 458 and the M70 XTR in 270. Later I had a Ruger #1

My favourite loads were the 400 grain Speer with 70 grains of 4064 which did right on 2000 f/s (with the original Ohler 10 ad paper screens) and 70 grains of 3031 that was right on 2100 f/s. All three rifle were ragged hole stuff at 100 yards. Similar results with other people's 458s as well. Never shot anything big if you go to hell for shooting kangaroos, pigs, goats and emus with a 458, i will be there for a long time. It absolutely flattened stuff.

Recoil about like the 375 when loaded with 4064 and 2400 with 300 grains and 2600 plus with 270 grains, 68 grains and 71 grains. Muzzle blast much less, sort of flat bang.

I know that a of blokes have used full loads with mono metal bullets of 350 grains. I never did anything with the 350 Hornady as had a 460 at the same time and that is 3000 f/s stuff.

Of course if you had a 458 with the 3.6" length full length magazine you load it to equal the 458 Lott.

It just might be the most versatile over 30 calibre out there. A lot of fun for sure. Of course with cast bullets it adds another dimension. Maybe in these times of shortages you could make your own black powder and cast bullets. I thing the 458 would be similar to the 45/100 or 45/90??

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I'm without at the moment. Never used it on live game, not even a piggie. But I have a Mauser with forward mount scope in 45 American that calls out for a chamber lengthening to the 2.5" version. I have so many empties and a few loaded cartridges so it is coming. The 458 Win Mag is still alive and well. A fine range toy if you can reload for cheaper shooting. And I can warm up my Lyman 458125 mold. Be Well, RZ.


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I have had 2 or 3. I still have 1 in a Mark X with express sights.
I have only shot rocks. The 400 and 450 grain bullets, do one hell of a fine job making bigger ones into little ones.
I think it is a great closer range round, as it was intended.
I bet it first round KO’s a kangaroo decisively.
———————————————————————


Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
I have had three of them. Two were the M70 Super Grades of about 1971 vintage. 22" barrels. In Australia they were priced just under a Mark V Deluxe in 300 Wby at the time. A 375 M70 was midway between the 458 and the M70 XTR in 270. Later I had a Ruger #1

My favourite loads were the 400 grain Speer with 70 grains of 4064 which did right on 2000 f/s (with the original Ohler 10 ad paper screens) and 70 grains of 3031 that was right on 2100 f/s. All three rifle were ragged hole stuff at 100 yards. Similar results with other people's 458s as well. Never shot anything big if you go to hell for shooting kangaroos, pigs, goats and emus with a 458, i will be there for a long time. It absolutely flattened stuff.

Recoil about like the 375 when loaded with 4064 and 2400 with 300 grains and 2600 plus with 270 grains, 68 grains and 71 grains. Muzzle blast much less, sort of flat bang.

I know that a of blokes have used full loads with mono metal bullets of 350 grains. I never did anything with the 350 Hornady as had a 460 at the same time and that is 3000 f/s stuff.

Of course if you had a 458 with the 3.6" length full length magazine you load it to equal the 458 Lott.

It just might be the most versatile over 30 calibre out there. A lot of fun for sure. Of course with cast bullets it adds another dimension. Maybe in these times of shortages you could make your own black powder and cast bullets. I thing the 458 would be similar to the 45/100 or 45/90??



Last edited by ldmay375; 01/23/21.
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Originally Posted by ldmay375
I have had 2 or 3. I still have 1 in a Mark X with express sights.
I have only shot rocks. The 400 and 450 grain bullets, do one hell of a fine job making bigger ones into little ones.
I think it is a great closer range round, as it was intended.
I bet it first round KO’s a kangaroo decisively.
———————————————————————



A real Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey in action. Really something on the big Red males

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LMAO !!!!
My interest waned in the 458 once the 416 Ruger appeaed in a stainless rifle.
Had entertained thoughts of a stainless 458 Winchester. I still think of doing it. I currently have a stainless 458 Lott.
But, would be as happy or happier with a stainless Ruger or M70 classic re-barrel to 458 Winchester. I like the standard length actions more than the H&H length.

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Originally Posted by ldmay375
LMAO !!!!
My interest waned in the 458 once the 416 Ruger appeaed in a stainless rifle.
Had entertained thoughts of a stainless 458 Winchester. I still think of doing it. I currently have a stainless 458 Lott.
But, would be as happy or happier with a stainless Ruger or M70 classic re-barrel to 458 Winchester. I like the standard length actions more than the H&H length.



45 and of course 375 have the bullets. We have a bullet maker in Australia that does different runs and all "blow things to bits" bullets and they are 30, 375 and 45.

In the early 2000s I had a lot to do with the Wby Custom Shop because of 378s. he bloke running the shop told me that with the 378, 416 and 460 Wby that all the reloading action was with the 378 and 460 and the 416 was a factory ammo deal.

I had both the 416 Remington and 416 Wby Mark V but I got out of them and because of bullets. Of course I realise when it comes to premium bullets for very big game the 416 is equal to any big bore but it is poor for other bullets.

Lot of blokes in Australia use the 300 grain 458 bullets and quite a few have both the 458 and Marlin 45/70.

It is quite amazing how well you can do at long range with that 400 grain Speer at 2000-2100. You seen to get onto the animals after half a day or so. I have shot the 458 with the 400 grain Speer alongside the 270. You do better with the 270 at first but y lunch time on the first day the 458 hold its own. I know this sounds ridiculous but a big bullet going slow seems to have "some type of feel" to it when it comes to range and hold over.

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Mike,

Agree !
In 1984, got my first .458 WM, a Ruger No.1H, in Blairstown , MO where elephant are pretty scarce, but I was ready, just in case.
Then followed the pushfeed M70 XTR and M700 "Safari" of same 1984 vintage with which I hunted cow moose and varmint only.
I learned of the 460 WBY, better for chest thumping purposes in more ways than one.
The first three .458 WM rifles got traded off.
I had a couple of Whitworth MK X .458 WM rifles after that, but unfortunately turned them into a .458 Lott and a .458/.416 Ruger.
A 34-year career of wildcatting coincided with my neglect of the .458 WM.
The .458 WM would have served just as well or better than the oddballs up to .510-caliber that I played with on bison, water buffalo and cape buffalo.

I am reformed, and I have acquired 6 more .458 Winchester Magnum rifles, including a Ruger No.1 of 1980 production.
She must have been a safe queen ready for elephant.
Their chambers will never be molested.

I figured out how to correct a .458 Lott Ruger No. 1, by running a .450 NE 3.25" reamer into it.
Another alternative is to run a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum into the SAAMI .458 Lott.
Thus, one can make the SAAMI .458 Lott the equal of the .458 WM-Unlimited by correcting its throat.
That sort of .458 Lott Like Jack Built might even be better with birdshot and light bullets of 250-gr to 350-gr.
Only with rethroating can it equal the power of the .458 WM-Unlimited with 400-gr to 600-gr bullets.

If you let the .458 WM have a MAP as high as the .458 Lott MAP (SAAMI 62,500 psi),
and you use the .458 WM at the same COL as the .458 Lott
(you don't have to go longer, though you can)
the .458 WM wins every time.
Just requires a bullet long enough to make the COL desired.
Reduced loads and cast loads ?
The .458 WM wins there too.
Accuracy ?
Elmer Keith was the first scribe that told me the .458 WM had no flies on it in that regard.
Elmer was not wrong.

Here is a test image through the gallery here:

[Linked Image]

Pick the KE level you want and you can find a bullet that will do it with the .458 Winchester Magnum with SAAMI chamber.
Powders and bullets are excellent now.
For an "Express Rifle and Big Bore" there has been no improvement since 1956.

Last edited by Riflecrank; 01/23/21.

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Good stuff Mike and Ron, my JES rebored 375 H&H to 458 WIN TRUMP remains at the ready ; ]

500gr TBSH solids at 2365 fps, 450gr TSX's [Thanks Ron] at a tic over 2400 fps.


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The 458 TRUMP. Tthe only calibre in the world to have been censored. That is Big Power smile

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Mike and Jerry,
It is getting mighty serious in the USA. I have changed the name of world's best express rifle and big bore cartridge from ".458 Winchester Magnum T!@#$" to
simply the ".458 Winchester Magnum+" so as to avoid being sent to a re-education camp.
The plus sign means whatever you want it to, know what I mean ?

Member gunner500 recommended the 500-grain Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer to me a little while back, so we bought out MidwayUSA's sale on those.
Glad he told me about that !
Having experienced excellent results with several bullets and AA-2460,
I suggested he try that powder with the TBSH 500-grainer and by golly if he didn't come up with a load,
licketysplit and impossible to beat.
He beat me to it. I will rely on its perfection:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Last edited by Riflecrank; 01/24/21.

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Mike, I think the feel for the trajectory comes from the familiarity. Much the same as a bow shooter not using a sight.
Ron has done a hell of a lot and collaboration with “The Mission”, and has held my interest in the 458’s. This prior year I have been focusing on smaller bores and lever rifles in revolver cartridges. Mostly the search for and acquisition of. Though have not shat-canned the 458’s. I have the Lott at the gunsmith shop having some work done on it. The 458 Winchester, I also have some modifications planned for it.
I decided more or less on using the Barnes 450 grain TSX for both. I should have bought more, but have a couple of hundred for a start.
I probably should have bought some 350 grain TSX to try. Several people seem to have had excellent performance with them on sizable critters. I just have a mental block / near distrust for shooting anything less than a 400 grain in the 458’s. The same applies with the 416’s and using less than a 350 grain.
Anyways appears to be limited supplies out there now. I have sufficient brass and powder for both the 458 Winchester and Lott.
In time, I definitely plan to experiment a bit with both 458’s.


Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Originally Posted by ldmay375
LMAO !!!!
My interest waned in the 458 once the 416 Ruger appeaed in a stainless rifle.
Had entertained thoughts of a stainless 458 Winchester. I still think of doing it. I currently have a stainless 458 Lott.
But, would be as happy or happier with a stainless Ruger or M70 classic re-barrel to 458 Winchester. I like the standard length actions more than the H&H length.



45 and of course 375 have the bullets. We have a bullet maker in Australia that does different runs and all "blow things to bits" bullets and they are 30, 375 and 45.

In the early 2000s I had a lot to do with the Wby Custom Shop because of 378s. he bloke running the shop told me that with the 378, 416 and 460 Wby that all the reloading action was with the 378 and 460 and the 416 was a factory ammo deal.

I had both the 416 Remington and 416 Wby Mark V but I got out of them and because of bullets. Of course I realise when it comes to premium bullets for very big game the 416 is equal to any big bore but it is poor for other bullets.

Lot of blokes in Australia use the 300 grain 458 bullets and quite a few have both the 458 and Marlin 45/70.

It is quite amazing how well you can do at long range with that 400 grain Speer at 2000-2100. You seen to get onto the animals after half a day or so. I have shot the 458 with the 400 grain Speer alongside the 270. You do better with the 270 at first but y lunch time on the first day the 458 hold its own. I know this sounds ridiculous but a big bullet going slow seems to have "some type of feel" to it when it comes to range and hold over.




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I always liked the look of the sledge hammers.They were one of the earlier pioneers into flat tipped bullets. The other was the Speer African grand slam, may it rest in peace. Tungsten cored, they would punch through a lot of metal for fun.

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That'll work Ron, I told an old buddy about running 500 grains over 2365 fps from my 458....he said he'd need buy me a new chronograph ; ] I told him to bring that cash on out to the farm if he wants to leave it here.


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ldmay375,

Here's hoping the real start of the Iditarod goes off without a hitch and they don't make the dogs wear masks on the trail out of Wasilla.

Whenever you get a chance, please tell the missionaries to continue spreading the truth about the .458 Winchester Magnum at this thread.

That feel for trajectory that Mike is talking about with 400-grainers: His 2000-2100 fps is a useful skill, whether with cast bullet or premium like the Woodleigh 400-gr PPSN.
Even though the great .458 WM+ can make the Woodleigh do 2600 fps, and the recommended impact velocity is only 2500 fps,
if you get a feel for that trajectory, velocity will be down to recommended past 50 yards, so that might be a useful skill for large varmints at longer ranges,
and plumb spectacular on smaller varmints at close range.

I am like you when it comes to using bullets less than 400 grains in the .458s and less than 350 grains in the .416s for large game.
For varmints I am plenty OK with 250- to 350-gr weights approaching Mach 3. More to come.

Old maximal SAAMI .458 WM 400-grain loads can be easily topped for MV with 450-grainers in the .458 WM+: I have a good supply of the TSX and old North Fork bullets in that weight. More to come.

Some 500-gr business first, as inspiration for .458 experimenters.


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
ldmay375,

Here's hoping the real start of the Iditarod goes off without a hitch and they don't make the dogs wear masks on the trail out of Wasilla.

Whenever you get a chance, please tell the missionaries to continue spreading the truth about the .458 Winchester Magnum at this thread.

That feel for trajectory that Mike is talking about with 400-grainers: His 2000-2100 fps is a useful skill, whether with cast bullet or premium like the Woodleigh 400-gr PPSN.
Even though the great .458 WM+ can make the Woodleigh do 2600 fps, and the recommended impact velocity is only 2500 fps,
if you get a feel for that trajectory, velocity will be down to recommended past 50 yards, so that might be a useful skill for large varmints at longer ranges,
and plumb spectacular on smaller varmints at close range.

I am like you when it comes to using bullets less than 400 grains in the .458s and less than 350 grains in the .416s for large game.
For varmints I am plenty OK with 250- to 350-gr weights approaching Mach 3. More to come.

Old maximal SAAMI .458 WM 400-grain loads can be easily topped for MV with 450-grainers in the .458 WM+: I have a good supply of the TSX and old North Fork bullets in that weight. More to come.

Some 500-gr business first, as inspiration for .458 experimenters.






Them buffalo back in the day were big varmints.... and 500gr at 1300 fps muzzle velocity seemed to slice through them like butter


Originally Posted by Judman
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Originally Posted by 158XTP
I always liked the look of the sledge hammers.They were one of the earlier pioneers into flat tipped bullets. The other was the Speer African grand slam, may it rest in peace. Tungsten cored, they would punch through a lot of metal for fun.

Yep, RIP AGS Tungsten at $5 per bullet way back then.
Those tungsten cores would drill through the jacket on a 3/4"-thick steel gong, leave a pencil-thin hole through the steel, and splash the jacket away from the gong.
Hopefully the lead core in the TBSH will not be as prone to penetrate the naval bronze jacket.
On game, no worries might !


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PETA continues their assault on the race. And politically-correct / awoke / weak-kneed sponsors continue to fold. The mask zealots are everywhere.
No more 450 grain have been spotted. Though, I did pick up 150 ea, 400 grain Swift A-Frames today. I would have rather they had been 400 grain TSX, but maybe one day.
I do think these will still be satisfactory for most anything that makes tracks around here.

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Originally Posted by gunner500
That'll work Ron, I told an old buddy about running 500 grains over 2365 fps from my 458....he said he'd need buy me a new chronograph ; ] I told him to bring that cash on out to the farm if he wants to leave it here.

grin
Cash: Save some of that by practicing with old obsolete 500-grain Hornady RNSP seated to same depth as the TBSH.
I finished off my old first-generation Hornady 500-grainers and have moved onto the second-generation InterLock.
To maintain the 0.350" seating depth same as a TBSH at 3.550" (rounding to nearest 1/100th inch)
Gen-1 COL is 3.500".
Gen-2 COL is 3.480".
When you get to 2300 fps with those in a .458 WM+, you have well and truly beat a .458 Lott.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

80 grains of compressed H4895 makes a good practice load with Ol'Hornady 500-grainers at 2300 fps.
Easy to go faster with ball powders and no compression.
Heck, 2200 fps with some of the newer ball powders might do just fine for practice too.

[Linked Image]

Hodgdon CFE 223 is pretty slow burning and might require the 5-grain greater water capacity of Norma-made brass, to get over 2300 fps with such short COL.
Norma is that much bigger inside than W-W Super and Hornady brass !
One of the faithful missionaries suggested CFE 223, and it would be dandy for practice loads from any brass case,
clean your barrel while plinking.


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Originally Posted by irfubar

Them buffalo back in the day were big varmints.... and 500gr at 1300 fps muzzle velocity seemed to slice through them like butter

But them thar bullets was paper-patched, soft lead, and at them low velocities was sho-nuff like a hot knife in a stick of butter fo' buffalo pokin'.
Nowadays weeunz like a little flatter trajectory with smokeless loads and the rules has changed.


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Would do if I had any old Hornadys Ron, cash deal was buddy about to call me a BS'ing liar, it was going to be a losing bet for him, I advised him to bring enough cash to buy the latest Oehler chrono setup, guess he didn't feel like losing 3000 bucks, 500 for the chrono, 2500 for calling me a bullspitter ; ]


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