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Fury 01,

Thanks for the info on the lead bullets, I am going to test them on pigs, they should kill the hell out of pigs, Rio7

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Rio7
Thanks for sharing the photos. That precisely is what one should do with a 458 bore. Go out and hunt whatever your hunting with it. Our First Love here is the incomparable 458WM but your Howell is getting the job done as well it seems! Lovely rifle.

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Fury01, About this time every year I start reloading for the next hunting season, trying to do better than last seasons loads, the 450 Howell is a 458 Win Mag.+ P , in the field it's hard to tell them apart, kinda like the 300 win mag and the 300 Wby mag.. mine is fun as hell to hunt with. Rio7

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Flat nose cast .458 bullets work from 1300 fps at the muzzle to around 2000 FPS in my opinion. You can run them faster but there is no real benefit on hunting loads. Alloys from 10-12 BHN up to 19 or so work great as long as the hard ones are not brittle. You have to have enough arsenic and Antimony in there to toughen them up. I prefer the softer ones myself. Most of my loads are between 1650 and 1900 fps, weights from 433 to 490. All of them kill whitetail about the same. No problem hitting where you want to at 250 yards as long as the shooter does his part. I shoot almost all my game sitting over sticks. Shot my buck last year offhand but he was the first in a while that way.
Powders that work well for me are AA 2015, the old IMR 4759 which I still have a lot of!! and going to load some up with AA 2460 this year. Proven by Sir Ron as a good cast powder in the 458WM. Search this thread and you will find! All of those should be good in your Howell as well.

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Fury01,

500 gr. Soft RN and 500 gr. Solids, shoot great for me with H-4198, Rio7

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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The 500 grain RN both soft and solid have done good work over the years in the mighty 458WM on African large game, the Big Bears up North and all sorts of game down under, all recorded in the pages of this thread by others. Also we know the flat Point is better in all phases of terminal ballistics and we are grateful for the bullets that have been developed along those thought lines. If you look at the Copper bullets with hollow points in their internal workings, you see rapid action to get weight forward and flat on front. Of course about every other type of bullet action is designed into someone's bullets but the key to through and through is to get weight forward and overcome tissue resistance. The Hammers do this by shedding petals that become secondary projectiles while the weight forward and flat pointed solid now moves on.
Sir Ron and others have much to offer us in testing and research in this thread. Best Public Sourced work on these topics ever.

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Fury01, Amen on the info contained here. Rio7

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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
My Gunsmith Father in Law used to drill a small hole in the nose of the Bullet, before I met him, and make his own Hollow points!

He was on a fixed income, from early disability Retirement, and Former WWII Veteran, and made ends Meet!

He told me that they found out the hard way using solid lead on game wasn't the best choice, although the shock of the bullet would do some damage,
his hollow points causing expansion of the bullet created a larger shock displacement, etc................ as we've learned today.


Sir Tony,
No doubt that would be good for all sorts of handgun and rifle cast loads at relatively low velocity.
I have s hollow-pointer mould from N.O.E. that has 3 different depths of HP
as well as a smallish meplat FN plug for a full 600-grainer.
I might try the "Hammer Hardness Tester" on the hollow-point versions of the 600-grainer NOE bullet.
4-pound hammer test of hardness, harder alloy blue, softer alloy red, 500-grainer and 600-grainer NOE bullets:

[Linked Image]

The handgun bullet on bottom is a .358"-158-gr bullet from a Lee mould, of about same hardness as the red-painted bullets.


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RIO7,
Sir, we do not offer O-7 rank at The Square Table but you have earned a seat there if you like.
What would be your Sir Name ?
The .450 Howell is a marvelous cartridge.
Dr. Howell was a pillar of the community here, gone now to The Happy Hunting Ground.
He too is to be inducted and canonized as Sir Saint Ken.

Would you agree that the .450 Howell has about 100 grains gross water capacity ?
Would you possibly know the throat specs on the .450 Howell as designed by Sir Saint Ken ?
Until further notice I submit the following:

[Linked Image]

And I have copied for handy reference your well composed photos containing cartridges and rifles:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Are those two same or different rifles in .450 Howell ?


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404 Jefferies case opened up and trimmed?

Velocity?

Originally Posted by RIO7
Fury01,

500 gr. Soft RN and 500 gr. Solids, shoot great for me with H-4198, Rio7

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Back to basic .458 WM loads with 350-gr Speer "tough enough" bullet as previously suggested,
power enough for anything in NA:

[Linked Image]

And the good-for-lower-velocity loads with the 400-gr Speer, more suitable for .45-70 Gov't.:

[Linked Image]

400-gr Woodleigh at +2600 fps MV (3.425" COL)
400-ish-gr/.461" Hardcast-GC at 2150 fps MV
375-gr/.461" Linotype Hollow Base at 1400 fps MV
The cast bullets are loaded to 3.340" COL, easily seated deeper for same velocities with those:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

All have good accuracy in a SAAMI-chambered .458 WinMag rifle with 1:14" twist.


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David Walter,
Until RIO7 gets back, yes, .404 Jeffery basis for .450 Howell, 2.500" case length,
caliber length neck, and nice body taper.
Its top ballistic performance will depend on how it is throated.
Regardless, it should be a slick feeder that will hunt well, anything huntable.

Compare to the .458/.416 Ruger aka the .458 WinRuger:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Here is the GSC 400-gr HV at COL for magazine-length challenged rifle:

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Here is my magazine-length challenged .458 WinRuger,
it too is in queue for gunsmithing, awaiting a Sunny Hill drop box for M98:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Scope used to shoot the limited test ammo with two bullets and 2 powders:

[Linked Image]

Typo on brass length, should be 2.565" not 3.565", COL of 3.345" is correct, barely works through the magazine box:

[Linked Image]


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Targets are only 25 yards zeroing, just to compare what previous, good .458 WinMag loads would do for velocity in a larger case with same throat.
The .458 WinMag was loaded to COL of 3.395" in a 23" McGowen barrel and did a bit over 2500 fps with 80.0 grains of AA-2230,
with same 400-gr GSC HV:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Graphic summary of the above, +/- is for standard deviation, not extreme spread:

[Linked Image]

Results for 400-gr Speer with H4895:

[Linked Image]


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Gotta add a little extra powder in the 10-grains bigger case to equal the .458 WM at less than 3.4" COL,
both throated the same for overall length from breech to start of rifling in the leade.

But the M98 magazine only holds 2 down with the wide-shouldered .458 WinRuger.
Here is what I am going to do about that, like on this .510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved that has Wiebe .500 Jeffery bottom metal:

[Linked Image]

Sunny Hill for the Whitworth .458 WM that had rings in its chamber from the factory and had to be re-chambered,
using a properly piloted .375 Ruger reamer body and a .458 Lott reamer to extend the neck.
The remnant .458 WinMag throat was good.
Drop magazine will hang out below the pretty wood.
Or maybe a Bell & Carlson stock would be better for such a batch of lemonade made from a lemon.
Save the pretty wood for the flush floor plate.

[Linked Image]


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Sir Ron,
Please allow me to do some brain matter picking here, as I have learned a lot on this thread all ready, and continue to learn some more.
As illustrated above, the 2 rounds shown, the .458 Win. Ruger, and the .458 Win. Mag. Both loaded with North Fork 450-gr. Semi Spitzer S. P. Bullets.
My Question is that with the extra cannelure grooves exposed out of the case.
How does this effect the possible drag on the flight of the bullet, pertaining to wind resistance, and velocity?

Please don't make me buy another Donkey, as the Stables getting crowded! LOL!!!


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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

My 450 Howell, was given to me by Ken Howell, he had it about 80% built when he had his first stroke, he had planned to take it to Africa, he gave it to me, with a bunch of brass and bullets, and said finish this rifle and go kill something with it and send me a picture. With the help of Bob AKA ( kaywoodie) we finished the rifle,
Miles Patton and Ed Bryant, helped me make 404 Jeffery brass into 450 Howell, and build some loads, after completing the rifle, i took it back to Ken, by then he was in a wheel chair after another stroke, and could no longer talk, he really enjoyed seeing the rifle and handling, we had a long visit passing notes back and forth, he passed away about 18 months later.


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Sir Tony,
Hanging out in the throat is same as hanging out inside the case for the North Fork drive bands.
Same aerodynamics for external ballistics.
They might not be as aerodynamic as the Hammer Bullets PDR bands,
but nothing else is either.
North Forks work quite well, however, even if BC is not as high as with the 404-gr/.458 Shock Hammer.

[Linked Image]


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RIO7,

That .450 Howell rifle is a treasure.
Any idea on how Sir Saint Ken throated it ?


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Excerpts for book review purposes, book by Randolph S. Wright, cover and pp. 38 and 39:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Book review: Excellent book. It contains excellent information applicable to measuring the max COL
of a cartridge possible in a rifle chamber.
My comments were added to that last image above, hoping to goad RIO7 into measurement of the .450 Howell throat length,
if he does not have a reamer drawing ...


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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