Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Test question to see if anyone is paying attention besides Fury01 and Riflecrank:

Which one is called "Old Ugly," the rifle or the rifleman ?



As you were.
Continuing the good, bad and fugly theme, it is time to look at the underwear of Old Fugly and consider how it might be improved
and possibly made even fuglier.

Her underside where opened at front of action only, she started off as a standard magnum action .458 WinMag:



Here is the cut on the front of the ejection port to allow ejection of unfired cartridges:



Front of integral box was cut off and extension welded onto it:





Welded, brazed, soldered ... my local GUNSMITH in Kentucky did that with whatever technique he preferred.
That happened in the early years of this century as an attempt to do right by Old Fugly.
I adopted her in 1987 from Boondock Sporting Goods in Eagle River Alaska.
I have chronograph results from her as a .458 WinMag dated 1988, soon as the public range had thawed,
and she was bedded in a Brown Precision blank smeared with epoxy all over.
I just called her Warthog back then.

Then on a day that will live in infamy, in 1993, she had a .458 Lott wildcat reamer run into her by an Alaskan GUNSMITH.
She has never been right since.
She went 10 years (1993- 2003) with a short box and a long chamber,
mag box carrying .458 WM, single-shot loading .458 Lott off the top of box.

Old Fugly is now like a rescue dog, a pet so fugly it is endearing.
From 2003 to present she has had the welded box.
I am trying to do better by her before another decade passes, surely before 2023 comes.
Her current mag box is barely long enough inside to fit 3.6" COL,
and then only with pointy spitzer bullet.
Ideal when loaded with 400-gr spitzers and less than 3.6" COL.
She can do no better than a .458 WM+ with any heavier bullet anyway,
whether using 2.5" or 2.8" brass.
The SAAMI .458 Lott cannot fit a lot of bullets into 3.600" COL without trimming the brass a little short,
as advised in the Barnes Manual for the 450-gr and 500-gr TSX bullets.

Rest of he metalwork dates back to 1992, aside from action opening.
Ruger M77 rear sight and barrel recoil lug re-do:



Thread protector for KDF brake, and a front bead protected by friction-fit hood, a hood that often vanishes with a fouling shot:



Stockwork dating to 1987-1988, the second rifle I ever "restocked"
(soon after I did my Oldest Fugly .375 WbyMag in 1987).
Both were done with bare fiberglass Brown Precision blanks:



There are hidden, steel allthread crossbolts behind barrel lug, action lug, and in web between magazine well and trigger well,
a location otherwise known as the 'tain't of a rifle stock.
'Tain't magazine well and 'tain't trigger well.
In the UK it is called the 'tween by similar derivation.
Spiderman fans call it "the web between magazine and trigger."







The rear Mauser action spacer was epoxied in place to serve as a pillar.
The front has no stock pillar, just the integral Mauser ferrules on receiver bottom and bottom metal.

I am thinking that a Sunny Hill M'98 Drop Depth (4+1 capacity) for .375 H&H
might work on Old Fugly. That is a # 440.
She was opened as scantily as possible to the front.
The Sunny Hill M'98 Drop Depth for .300 WinMag (# 430) seems to have the same hind of footprint,
indicating # 440 is opened to front.

# 430 will work on a Whitworth Mk X .458 WinMag that has not been opened up.

Some gleanings from the Sunny Hill Enterprises, Inc. web site:















Old Fugly might be even fuglier with a drop box hanging pregnantly below her current stock.
My New Fugly .458 WinRuger wildcat (.458/.416 Ruger with .458 WM throat)
on a walnut-stocked Whitworth Mk X will get a # 430.
Having inside-box length of 3.470" will compensate somewhat for the max brass being 2.580" instead of 2.500".
The current Mk X box allows only 2+1 capacity in magazine with the .458 WinRuger.
Extra depth will allow at least 3+1, maybe 4+1.

If that fits an unopened Whitworth Mk X (M'98) as claimed by Sunny Hill, verified by telephone call to Andy,
then I will go for a # 440 on Old Fugly.
Trust but verify. When verified, trust until proven otherwise.

Old Fugly's locally-made long box might allow cleanup and use of a Sunny Hill # 440.
Fingers crossed.

When Old Fugly was young and unfouled by the .458 Lott reamer, she was a .458 Winchester Magnum called Warthog.
March 1988 chronographing at 38 degrees F just north of Anchorage, Alaska, when spring had sprung:

Hornady 500-gr RNSN crimped on factory cannelure
W-W Super brass case
F-215 primer
IMR-3031 powder 71.0 grains
5-yard chronograph >>> 2155 fps from 23.6" barrel of 1:14" twist

BC = 0.287 would correct MV to 2169 fps

3-shot group at 100 yards was noted to be 1-1/4". That would be 1.19 MOA.

With that load I killed a moose and a ground squirrel at zero range of 100 yards.

Old Fugly will be slower by a bit with .458 WinMag loads fired in the fouled chamber's extra space for 2.8" brass.
She will need more powder to equal her old results when using 2.8" brass to occupy the extra chamber "dead space."
So sad.
When she was young she was a speedy .458 WinMag.

Ron - if you’re considering a new mag box for your build you might want to run your ruler over one made by Recknagel. Over here they are available locally for AUD$850, which is about US$650. That includes new follower, spring, screws etc. It’s really beefed up and well made.

It does require some milling of the front feed ramp.

Sir Ron,

I ran a ballistics profile of Phil's load based on some assumptions: MV = 2040; BC = .287; atmosphere conditions: 39*F, RH @ 58%, and elevation @ 1200 ft. I don't know how close that is, but the background wasn't snow covered nor did Phil look unduly cold from severe weather conditions.

Whatever the case, he was very close in his estimates of 1100 fps impact and 6' drop from point of aim. My figures show 1183 fps impact and 76.77" drop from poi at 400 yards.

Thank you for quoting Phil in the Gun Digest 2021. I'm going to look for a copy.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

JFE,

About time you showed up again. Your brilliance in previous contributions, as well as this one simply must be rewarded.
What is your chosen sir name ?
Keep in mind that we already have a Sir Jerry and a Sir John, as well as Sir Woods who also could not go with given first name,
already taken by another Knight.
You can be creative if you choose, like Sir EleHunter aka member TSIBINDI.



Alas, Old Fugly has already had some milling on her front feed ramp.
Hopefully it was minimal enough to allow cleanup to fit one of those other boxes.

Sir Bob,

Glad you made it back from vacation and got out another blog entry.
Excellent discussion on bullets and ballistics as usual.
Could not agree more with your take on things.

Your take on Phil's holdover table is same as mine too, after running same assumed numbers.

Here is some trivia for bullet nerds:

Early Federal factory loads with Jack Carter Original TBBC 500-gr./.458 bullets had a BC = 0.342
according to Bob Forker's first edition of AMMO & BALLISTICS (C) 2000.
This may be the bullet Phil Shoemaker used when he whacked the 400-yard, 74" bull moose.
Long before the 2017 6th edition the BC for that bullet became 0.284, as lately specified.
I guess they changed the longer-nosed semispitzer TBBC (so well suited to the .458 WinMag)
to a shorter-nosed, blunt FN/RN/SN that would fit the .458 Lott better.
The .458 Lott with 2.8" brass is nose-challenged in a 3.6" magazine.


Phil's table works very well with a BC of 0.324 also.
2040 fps MV, 1.5" sight height for the 2.5X20mm Leupold, 100-yard zero
59*F, 78% RH, 400 ft altitude, 29.53 In.Hg
(assumes the flat tundra and near surfaces of big Alaskan lakes, and self-servingly same altitude as my home range to boot):
100 yards 0
200 yards -9.02" ~ -1 foot
300 yards -31.34" ~ -3 feet
400 yards -70,49" ~ -6 feet

Consider the 400-gr Woodleigh PPSN which maker claims has a BC of 0.340
2500 fps MV, 1.75" sight height for a 2.5-8X36mm Leupold, 200-yard zero
59*F, 78% RH, 400 ft altitude, 29.53 In.Hg:
100 yards +2.56" ~ 0
200 yards 0
300 yards -11.3" ~ -1 foot
400 yards -33.02" ~ -3 feet
500 yards -68.55" ~ -6 feet

Same drop table just moved it out an extra 100 yards.
Or point and shoot out to 250 yards and only have to use my brain past 250 yards.
It is -4.37" out at 250 yards, OK for a moose vital zone.

Woodleigh recommends impact velocity of 1900 fps to 2500 fps for this bullet.
250-yard velocity is 1908 fps. Poor expansion past that ?
SD = 0.272
Oh well, maybe that tiny FN meplat on the PPSN would help it go straight after impact, if not much expanded.

The Old Jack Carter TBBC with BC = 0.342 would have 400-yard velocity = 1283 fps
SD = 0.341
Expansion and penetration at low MV were outstanding with that bullet,
as was the placement by Phil Shoemaker.

He did not mention windage, must have been the calm before sundown.
TBBC Original 500-grainer at 2040 fps MV zeroed at 100 yards might have 22.07" of drift at 400 yards with a 10-mph crosswind, ~2 feet.
Woodleigh PPSN 400-grainer at 2500 fps MV zeroed at 200 yards might have 11.13" of drift at 400 yards with a 10-mph crosswind, ~1 foot.

I’m not sure I’m Knight material but thanks for the thought and offer.

Is there a Sir Joe?


Regarding your bottom metal, when the Serbs open up standard length Whitworths, Zastavas etc to make 375 H&H models, they do a similar mod to your modified bottom metal. The difference is that a thin strap of metal (thinner than the material used to modify yours) is soldered to the outside of the mag box, not the inside as yours has been modified. If I recall correctly the box is cut a little bit further back too. It’s a questionable mod but you never hear of users complain that it fails.

Rather than buy a new box if you know someone handy with a welder, I’d remove the mod at the front of your box, look for a spare box that you can cut and shut into place. This will restore the width to the front of the box. If you want to get fancy you could weld in a piece of tougher steel in the front of the box so it resists denting better.

Sir Ron,

Buy a donkey for the promotion.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Sir Joe,

Arise from your tap with the Bagwell, Knight of the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood, honored throughout the realm.

Here is a funny involving another Joe, Joe Smithson, custom rifle builder of a remarkable .458 WinMag.
What might have happened after Phil Shoemaker used the Smithson rifle in the field:

Sir Bob,

Your observations and discussions on hunting bullets are always appreciated, even about the lesser calibers,
but especially the .458-cal., keep up the good work.

Excellent. I will have a spare Whitworth box after I get the Sunny Hill # 430 for New Fugly the .458 WinRuger.
Or, I can keep Old Fugly's "spitzer box" as a spare and cut on the other one to do something like this:



Or was that rear wall just filed thin to move it rearward ?
Looks flimsy in the rear wall thickness, but no battering issues in rear of magazine.
Bare wood sides of magazine internally survived for over a century.

Sir Ron - thanks for the knighthood. The 458 has been overlooked and under-rated for years and, thanks to people like you, it’s getting recognised for the great cartridge that it’s always been.

The rifle by Joe Smithson you showed looks like a very handy rifle.

The Brits were clever and resourceful when it came to making most out of their firearms. The magazine mods to the 404 are interesting but the web between the mag cutout and the trigger looks lit might have been a weak point, especially with the extra bolt at the back of the mag.

It sounds like you have several options to reconfigure the bottom metal for ol’ Fugly. Will be watching your mods with interest.

Sir Joe,
Buy a donkey for those flowers.
Will gitterdun eventually on Old Fugly.
This "build" has been in the works since 1987. About 34 years, so hopefully before it becomes 35 years.
Better mag box and "Bo Peep" rear sight pending ... and musn't forget fluorescent white tape
on barrel and scope for use as night sight.

More fine tuning on the Shoemaker Shinemaker Picatinny:









The details from the packaging:









Has a dual strobe mode too.
Tactical strobe or it will flash as an SOS.
Will either induce seizures or disorient and then signal for help.

A solid choice with backup:







Survived the "100-foot drop test."

The local Rural King store had a 110-lumen flashlight, with a laser, for $39.99.
Had to try it.
Used the Burris XTR SIGNATURE ring with inserts for "customizable cant" from 5 MOA to 40 MOA.
Used a single 1"-diameter ring (with inserts) with height of 1.00" from Picatinny flat to center of ring.
But used only one 0-MOA insert on ring top, and none on ring bottom.
Thus an aluminum flashlight body of about 1.065" to 1.070" diameter was trapped solidly by ring halves.
Rotating the flashlight so that the offset laser beam is closest to in-line with barrel: Voila !
Zeroed to cross hairs of 2.5X Leupold at 10 feet !
Laser beam is only a foot high at 25 yards !
Close enough for use inside my tent on a moonless night on Kodiak Island !







Packaging details:











I won't be messing with those Burris XTR Signature inserts to try to zero the laser at longer range.
I got lucky enough there for use inside a tent.
Will leave good enough alone.
But I do have one ring left over that I would like to try on another 1"-tubed flashlight, maybe that 1000-lumen torch.

That barrel clamp is meant to work on a tubular shotgun magazine or barrel with minimal taper.
Not so good on a skinnier rifle barrel with taper.
Never fear, the Shoemaker Shinemaker is here.

From an old Wolf Publication, when Old Ugly was younger, both of them:



I am gone muzzleloader deer hunting for the weekend.
Let's go Brandon.

No deer with muzzleloader for me quite yet this year, maybe later.
But it was inspirational recreational invigorational.
Rained first morning and in the 41*F.
Cool Kentucky rain.
Sunny and 39*F next morning.
Fall has arrived, finally,
but all the leaves are still green and too many!

If this PH had been carrying a 4-or-more-shooter .458 WM when the buffalo charged,
instead of his two-shooter double rifle,
it might be easier on the camp staff who have to do his laundry: