Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

I will not judge! Maybe he had a spicy food/beer combo the day before. Maybe he had a Cape Buffalo or lion charge him? You clean your shorts and move on

Ruger4Life,

Right on, right on, right on.

If a lion charged me I would probably crap my pants too.

Moving on to the next epiphany:

You do not need to shorten the bridge at rear of M70 Classic from Connecticut or FN
to turn the .30-06-length donor action into a 3.6"-COL-accepting action.
All you have to do is unblock the rear of magazine and shorten the ejector-bolt-stop.
See discussion here:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../re-winchester-70-458-build#Post16540470

This sort of rear bridge (M70 .270 WCF to .338 WinMag action) ...



... works as well as this sort of rear bridge (M70 .375 H&H to .458 WinMag) ...



... at ejecting 3.6" COL , unfired cartridges from a 3.6" mag box with proper fit of ejector-bolt-stop.

So why bother lengthening magazine and refitting ejector on the Super Grade .458 WinMag
to turn it into a .458 WM+ for 3.6" COL?
The .30-06 actions will do that by adding a bolt face job to the conversion,
and they are easier to come by and available in stainless.

No need to re-bore my M70 Classic stainless .375 WbyMag.
No need to muck with my M70 Super Grade .458 WinMag nor Alaskan .375 H&H.
Not even any need to rebarrel the M70 Extreme Weather .338 WinMag.

Have spare .30-06 will convert to .458 WM+.

Another advantage to the longer rear bridge, besides just looking beefier and stronger:
Less rain can get into the action.

The ones from FN/SC/Portugal have a longer extractor and only two screws in one-piece bottom,
and a funky new trigger.
Oh well, nothing is ever perfect.

And the nearly Free education goes forward at the 458WM University. A Proud and Privileged member of the Ivory League. The Cost of Attendance requires mandatory thought, reason and occasional contribution of relevant content based on the historical use of the English language and meaning of the words therein.

Gentlemen,

I finally got a chance yesterday to chronograph the Woodleigh Hydro's again in my Zastava M70 with 24" barrel.

Originally I was after a velocity of around 2200fps so I started with 75gn of BM2 and got a velocity of 2318fps.
There was no excessive pressure signs but then out of curiosity I then dropped to 74gn and got the same velocity.
I then lowered the charge to 73gn and finally got a chance to chronograph them.

With 73gn I got a velocity of 2287fps for a healthy 5227 ft/lb of energy.

l will leave it at this powder charge as velocity is nearly the same as the 75gn charge - and as a bonus it is the same powder charge as I use with the 550gn Woodleigh, my other load I use in this rifle.

I'm very happy with how this experiment has panned out - an easy 2280fps with a 450gn projectile has made this a successful venture.

Russ

Sir Russ;

Congratulations!

And thanks for sharing.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Thanks for posting. Those 450 Hydro’s should give some serious penetration.

Sir Russ,

No doubt an excellent load, buy a donkey for the data point.
Benchmark is my replacement for IMR-3031 (grain-for-grain usually), the old benchmark for the .458 Win.

IIRC Michael McCourry showed that the CEB 450-gr/.458 brass FN with BBW nose profile
penetrated a wee bit better than the 450-gr/.458 Woodleigh HYDRO in his artificial media (wet pack).
Both did very well, both were about 2250 fps (+/-), from a .458 B&M, IIRC.

Richard Harlan reported excellent resuts on elephant with the SAAMI .458 WM and 450-gr solids at 2300 fps.
That would be with the discontinued Barnes Banded Solids, brass FN.

My top load with the CEB 450-gr/.458 Safari Solid (brass BBW-FN) was with COL = 3.360"
and 77.0 gr of AA-2230, Hornady .458 WM brass, F-215 primer
24-7/8" CZ barrel on a Pre-'64 M70 .30-06 action: 2365 fps, corrected to MV
(2343 fps 5-yard and BC = only 0.190).
That is a mildly compressed charge.





Your HYDRO load at 2287 fps, if for 5 yards velocity, ought to get a similar correction to MV of about +22 fps,
so about 2309 fps MV.

Back to the epiphany of .458 WM+ on a standard M70 Classic or FN version for .30-06: Mere mag box and ejector fitting.

Behold the original M70 African SAAMI .458 WM:

Now compare to the latest M70 .30-06 that is really a .375 H&H-length action with mag box and ejector set for 3.340" instead of 3.600" COL:

OK, in stainless, maybe it should be called the Winchester M70 ALASKAN .458 WM+,
instead of the Winchester M70 AFRICAN .458 WinMag.
I will get to it soon as the .500 Jeffery cast-bullet shooter is out of the Gunsmith's Spa for Wayward Rifles,
Lord willing and the creeks don't rise, as in good health continues for the Gunsmith.
Cheers ! To his health !

Meantime I can do some more work on Old Fugly the .458 Lott myself,
as well as New Fugly the .458 WinRuger.
Yes, that sorry .458 WinMag Whitworth that had rings in her chamber from a chattering factory reamer.
What a mess !
Gunsmith had to run a .416 Ruger reamer into her to clean it up.
Sort of like a D&C abortion.
I stupidly re-chambered Old Fugly the .458 WinMag to .458 Lott on purpose !
I was still wet behind the ears when I did that, a green horn.
The New Fugly Whitworth got rechambered as a salvage job, not my fault.
Here she is:









Above, the DGS is in a case that has not been fire-formed, the GSC HV is in a once-fired and resized case.
Below, both pieces of brass after fire-forming, no signs of chamber rings:



It has a better shoulder than a 400 Whelen.

With these two sets of bottom metals I hope to get both Old Fugly and New Fugly squared away.











Latest idea is to fix New Fugly by cutting away the sidewalls of the Whitworth mag box.
Shades of what W. J. Jeffery did to the M98 for the original Model 1905 404 Jeffery.
That will make her 3+1 in (ugh) .458 WinRuger.

Then I cut off the front wall of the Sunny Hill mag box, and glue a steel plate to the front of the magazine well of stock.
More shades of W. J. Jeffery !
That will make Old Fugly 4+1 in (ugh) .458 Lott.

The drop box will hang below Old Fugly's belly, accentuating the fugliness of the old girl.











Compared to the Wiebe front wall, the Sunny Hill front wall will not be missed after amputation.
And nothing is quite as good as a .458 Winchester Magnum whether SAAMI restricted or unchained as a .458 WM+.

Hi Ron, as a long term fan of Old Ugly (are there any other rifles with such a loyal fan club?) I’ve really been enjoying your posts, Ive got a 9.3x62 that I jokingly call little ugly, re the drop mag, you could bubba up the gap with Bondo or other body filler and paint over it, would still be plenty ugly.

mauserator,

Excellent idea ! Why didn't I think of that myself ?!

Being the "Doyen of Devcon&J-B-Weld External Stock Finishing" that I am, it will be a piece of cake.
A chance to show off like that will be a great impetus to getting that drop box onto Old Fugly,
and a chance to make her Brown Precision fiberglass stock even fuglier.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The SAAMI .458 WM load with 450-gr HYDRO at just over 2300 fps MV as per Sir Russ
should be utterly reliable for any land animal and suitable for whaling insurance shots.

I am still rooting for 400-gr/.458 bullets of all types and all velocities from 1800 fps to 2600 fps
in the .458 WM and .458 WM-Unchained.
400-grainer at 2500 fps MV would be the standard "Tropical Load" for serious business.

I wonder if the old 400-gr Steel FMJ RN "Solid" (like the Hornady-made "encapsulated" Bone Crusher of TC)
might be less squirrelly than the longer 500-grainers ?
In a stack of boards or in the bony layers of an elephant skull, even a RN solid occasionally stays straight.
But nobody trusts a RN solid anymore, and I would always prefer an FN solid over a RN solid.
But a shorter 400-gr/.458-caliber RN solid would be inherently more stable than the longer ones.
Just sayin'.

Momentum of 500-grainer at 2100 fps = 150 pounds-feet
Momentum of 400-grainer at 2500 fps = 143 pounds-feet
Momentum of 400-grainer at 2625 fps = 150 pounds-feet

The .458 WM-Unchained can launch a 400-grainer at 2625 fps from a 25" Shilen barrel using a compressed charge of H4895.
Been there, done that, and lived to tell about it.
It was a Woodleigh PPSN at 3.425" COL.
A longer brass FN at 3.600" COL might do it too.
Surely a Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid shortened from 500 grains to 400 grains could do it.

Otto Candies, Jr. shortened the 500-gr/.475 TBSS to 400 grains and shot through a big bull elephant skull
with a handgun velocity of about 1400 fps (.475 Linebaugh).
So the 400-gr/.458 TBSS would eventually slow down to 1400 fps inside that elephant skull
and go on along its straight-line-penetrating way.
Thus with greater SD and initially higher momentum compared to the 400-gr/.475 TBSS,
it might overcome the initially higher resistance generated by impact at higher velocity.
This assumes that the brass FN does not deform.
I believe that at impact velocities below 2700 fps, the brass FN 400-gr/.458 solid would not deform.

Now, consider that a .458 WM-Unchained cannot make it past 2700 fps with a 400-gr brass FN.
I am pretty sure of that.

Safe !

Sir Ron,

Not sure you’re aware but Woodleigh make their 458 Hydros in 400gr and 325gr weights for the 45/70. The 400gr version is probably a little too long in a 45/70 case, hence the 325gr version.

The 400gr version, when loaded in a 458WM case and crimped in to the 3rd groove from the bottom, provides over one caliber length inside the case and still fits in a 30/06 length mag.

Yep, sure wish I could find some of those 400gr.458 HYDROs
on this side of the pond.

Here are some of the results of penetration tests of .458" bullets, 4 years ago on Oct 31/17. All were fired from my Ruger #1 in .45-70 LT (long throat) at reduced MV's to simulate hitting big tough game at about 100 yards.

The test medium was two cardboard boxes of hard cover books, plus dry glossy magazines, separated by 2 wooden, 2" planks. A very tough media.

Of interest in the context of 400gr /.458" solids with flat tips:

> a 400gr Barnes Buster completely penetrated both boxes of books and magazines, plus the 2 planks, without deviation in a straight line, and was lost. There was no indication of expansion. MV was 2250 fps (Max would have been 2400 fps). Distance to media from the muzzle was 5 yards.

> a 330gr Barnes brass or bronze solid with a flat nose at 2400 fps did as well as the 400gr Barnes Buster. (the 330gr was soon after dropped by Barnes, as were all other FT brass solids due to the Feds interference) I still have a bunch.

> a 480gr DGX at 1780 fps did exactly the same as the other two, except shot placement was closer to one side of the first box (I had 1" black dots on the front box as aiming points for each shot) and it hit the ledge behind leaving a perfect .458" imprint. It too was lost.

My takeaway is that almost any reasonable flat-nose solid will quite easily penetrate solid bone, assuming the lighter ones are given higher MV than the heavier ones. That is where momentum counts.

The 400 Buster was given a 128.6 momentum
The 330 Buster was given a 113.1 momentum
The 480 DGX was given a 122.4 momentum

As mentioned before: The 500gr Speer African GS was stopped at 6 inches penetration, retaining 310 grains. The others penetrated the full 15.5 inches of very tough media. That short list is not all that were tested that day, but I though it might be of interest in regard to a 400gr solid in .458".

Added: It may also be of interest to note that while the 330gr Barnes brass solid completely penetrated the 15.5 inches of tough media, the 350gr Hornady FP was stopped at 4.5" and lost its core!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Also of possible interest: I recently was able to purchase a box of Hornady 250gr Monoflex in .458 cal. They are made specifically for the 1895 Marlins in .450 and .45-70. Hornady recommends MVs between 1400 to 2500 fps. But those are MVs expected from the Marlin rifles. Anyway, I've loaded a bunch for my #1 Ruger in .458 WM to simulate (if possible) a Marlin in .45-70. I'd hoped to range test them today but we're getting heavy rain, and the "weather man" is now saying it will be a wet week! I am still hoping to get some fired this week for a report on my blog by Saturday.

According to Hornady, on the box I read: "Monolithic copper alloy won't separate, and retains 95% weight", and "Patented Flex Tip design is safe to use in tubular magazines", plus: "Ultra tough medium and big game bullet choice".

Sounds good, eh? That, we will discover! If that plan works well enough, then deer hunting starts on Nov. 1st. for rifle hunters. Looks like a possible wolf load too!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I use them on Northeast whitetail in my 458 WM ... I load them to ~ 2,000 fps out of my 22" M70 .

Devastating .