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Perhaps something to consider. In Africa, where there is a lot of large potentially dangerous game and for which the .375 H&H was developed.....the .375 is “generally” considered a medium-bore. In America, where the majority of our big game taken is rather small and non-dangerous .....many people consider the 30-06 as a large caliber cartridge! So for many, maybe even for most Americans, the .375 is a “big-bore”! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Give one of those very light barrel German or Japanese 378s to a 416 Taylor owner to shoot off the bench and then convince them that their 416 Taylor is a big bore and the 378 a medium bore smile smile





And yet, the 416 Taylor has a better reputation for dumping brown bear at close range than the 378.
Wider Is better !

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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Give one of those very light barrel German or Japanese 378s to a 416 Taylor owner to shoot off the bench and then convince them that their 416 Taylor is a big bore and the 378 a medium bore smile smile



Recoil, nor powder capacity increases the bore size. A Remington model 600 in 308 win bruised my shoulder in 3 shots, no 375 has ever hurt me like that, but the 308 is still not a bigbore and neither is the 375s




Exactly.

Not in Any Way saying the 375 isn't a great cart. It is. But, if I need a big bore. I need more than the 375.

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Really now, it is a very personal thing, this what-is-a-big-bore rifle thing.
For girls, .375-caliber and larger.
For boys, .400-caliber and larger.
For men: .458-caliber and larger.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Give one of those very light barrel German or Japanese 378s to a 416 Taylor owner to shoot off the bench..



Recoil, nor powder capacity increases the bore size. ..


Using Mike's mentality I can build and load sub- 6lb
338rcm that recoils same as 9lb .375H-H and thus
call it a big_bore.


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Really now, it is a very personal thing, this what-is-a-big-bore rifle thing.
For girls, .375-caliber and larger.
For boys, .400-caliber and larger.
For men: .458-caliber and larger.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^laugh^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Word!


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OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.

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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.


You sound like you may be a trouble maker smile

But I'd like to know too. 308 is/was used in "full bore" shooting.

Last edited by mauserand9mm; 02/07/21.

Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.


Taking into account your .375 b/b mentality
Most likely a calibre or two down from what
you consider it to be.

BTW: Winchester did not produce an African M70
variant until 1956 (with intro of .458win) and were
only offered in .458
ie: .375 were not avail. in pre-64 African
not even when .375 sales took off in Africa
with new minimum cal. laws.

Anyone recall when Win. first offered a Safari
type model in .375..?..was it only as late as the
90s' with intro of new CRF action..?


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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.



Anything smaller than .277 caliber! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.


I think it has been stated before. Anything smaller than 50 caliber is small bore.


I prefer classic.
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Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.



Anything smaller than .277 caliber! memtb


More like 32 and below



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by Starman


Anyone recall when Win. first offered a Safari
type model in .375..?..was it only as late as the
90s' with intro of new CRF action..?


The first M70 375 I had was about 1971 or so and the stock, except for those two cross bolts, were just like on the M70 XTR 270. Very Wby looking. The 375 in Australia was priced midway between the smaller calibres and the 458 Super Grade. The 375 had the heavier barrel with open sights and barrel recoil lug under the rear sight. I can't remember exactly when but definitely by the early 80s the 375 and 458 turned into the same gun and were called the Express and had the sling swivel on the barrel. The price of the Express 375 and 458 were still a lot more than the smaller calibres.

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When I stated small bores are .277 and down.....I thought that there should be a classification between “small bore and medium bore! If that class doesn’t exist....I have to go with anything below .32” as small bore! grin memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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For whatever it matters:

Big Bore - .400 and up

Med - .264 - .375

Small - < .264


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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
... I can't remember exactly when but definitely by the early 80s the 375 and 458 turned into the same gun and were called the Express and had the sling swivel on the barrel. The price of the Express 375 and 458 were still a lot more than the smaller calibres.


So all those yrs from 1937 Win didn't think they
could make it in the market with an African Exp.
priced .375 -

Jack Lott wrote that until release of M70 .375
Americans considered .30-06 as 'Big Bore'
despite .375H-H being known as medium since
1912. created to challenge the 1908 .350 Rigby.

Pondoro Taylor found .350 killed every bit as well
as .375 and since the .35 Whelen can surpass old
Rigby loads, then surely its A big-bore .375 in disguise.

Quote

“With it [the .350 Rigby] I killed practically all species of
African game from the elephant on down. I killed more
lions with this rifle than with any other.”

"There is nothing spectacular about this cartridge; it
has never had the write-up that the .318 and .375
Magnum get from time to time; nevertheless, it is a
splendidly effective shell and at ranges of up to at least
150 yards kills as instantaneously as the .375
Magnum. In addition, it has an appreciably lighter
recoil."

"No man in his right mind could possibly wish for
a better medium bore rifle than this for general
African hunting."



******
IIRC, Taylor also stated he nailed 11 elephants
with 11 shots from his .333 Jeffery_300 grain.
and that .333 would travel the length of animals
as folks also reported with .318 WR.

Before .375 minimum laws came in , Harry Selby
typically recommended .318 WR to clients.
He ended up with his first .375 only after clients
gifted him an M70 at end of safari in 1950.


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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
OK, if 375 is a medium bore how far down do we go before we hit small bore.


All a matter of opinion of course, but to me:

366 to 423.....heavy mediums
308 to 358.....medium bores
224 to 284.....small bores
anything under 224.....miniatures


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Originally Posted by Starman
Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
... I can't remember exactly when but definitely by the early 80s the 375 and 458 turned into the same gun and were called the Express and had the sling swivel on the barrel. The price of the Express 375 and 458 were still a lot more than the smaller calibres.


So all those yrs from 1937 Win didn't think they
could make it in the market with an African Exp.
priced .375 -




How much did a pre 64 375 cost as compared to 270/30-06 and 300 Win/338 Win.

Stuart Otteson in his book on bolt actions said when the Post 63 came out Winchester kept the 375 for marketing reasons and lengthened the receiver to properly accomodate the 375.

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Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Originally Posted by Starman


So all those yrs from 1937 Win didn't think they
could make it in the market with an African Exp.
priced .375 -


How much did a pre 64 375 cost as compared to 270/30-06 and 300 Win/338 Win.


List price was the same for STD calibres
and both H&H chamberings.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]





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Originally Posted by Starman

Originally Posted by MikeMcGuire
Originally Posted by Starman


So all those yrs from 1937 Win didn't think they
could make it in the market with an African Exp.
priced .375 -


How much did a pre 64 375 cost as compared to 270/30-06 and 300 Win/338 Win.


List price was the same for STD calibres
and both H&H chamberings.




So used prices on the 300 H&H and especially the 375 are interesting to say the least. I reckon if Winchester introduced a 300 H&H, just like the 375 and same pricing they would see plenty and a lot if profit as those rifles have Winchester's crappy No 1 wood and costs more than a Super Grade.

If I had the money to get a real top end wood/blue gun like from D'Arcy Echols I would have a hard time, real hard, deciding from the 270, 300 H&H or 375 H&H. The 300 H&H just might win the day.

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