Home Forums Gear Free Classifieds Shipping Primers

How is the best way, or maybe the most accepted way to ship primers? I'm thinking about putting some up for sale, and have always used USPS as a mailer. I'd appreciate any help on this, thanks.

This gets covered ever other day....

Listen to gemby at your own risk......

http://www.predatormastersforums.co...=showflat&Number=2441468#Post2441468

USPS won't ship them. I was also surprised when the UPS shipping hub told me that they will no longer ship them. Not sure about FedEx.

BTW, that link to predatormasters won't work unless someone is a member of that forum and logs in. Maybe you could post a summary of that thread?

Have the buyer send you their brass you prime the brass and mail them back. Legal shipped as ammunition. Ups or fed ex

Apparently each hub is different. I called and was informed the same. Some will ship them and some won’t for the fee. I’m assuming it varies based on having the appropriate trained employee on staff

There is no way unless you have a Hazmat rating for shipping explosives such as powder and primers.

I worked for USPS for 31 year and you won't believe the things that I saw that were sent through the mail. Some were much more dangerous than a primer or ammo.

I am seeing more ads wanting to sell or trade primers and powder. All the information I find says that you cannot do this without a permit.

A call was made to UPS Haz-Mat help desk.
(1-800-554-9964) This was their answer
Small ammunition primers cannot be shipped through UPS unless the shipper has training through 49 CFR 172.700-704, IATA Section 1.5, and a Haz-Mat shipping contract through UPS.
The requirements apply to any company or individual.

I also sent an email to the BATF and received this
Good Morning,

The laws specific to shipping gunpowder and primers are regulated by the Department of Transportation (DOT), not the ATF. I would suggest contacting DOT. Their website is www.dot.gov.

As for the ATF, the Federal explosive laws, as amended by the Safe Explosives Act, prohibit anyone other than a licensee or permittee from knowingly transporting, shipping, causing to be transported, or receiving explosive materials. Persons not holding a current ATF explosives license or permit may not transport or ship explosive materials, even within their State of residence. However, small arms ammunition and components of small arms ammunition, as well as black powder intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms are exempt from our regulations per 27 CFR 555.141.

Thank you,
Shawn Stevens

ATF Program Manager

Explosives Industry Programs Branch
202-648-7120

DOT Hazmat information can be found http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id.../ecfrbrowse/Title49/49cfr172_main_02.tpl

At this time, any ads made for powder or primers must be for local trade/sell only. Any others will be removed. If anyone can provide information showing that shipping them is legal, feel free to send it to me. Until then it will not be allowed here.

First off, DOT classifies blackpowder as a 4.1 flamamble solid when it is in 1lb cans. However the BATFE doesn't use this designation. It is considered an explosive regardless. The law says that anyone offering for sale any explosive must have an explosive license.

As for shipping, UPS nor Fedex regulates the shipping of hazardous materials. That is regulated by PHMSA and DOT. Feel free to read through the entire 49CFR before telling me I'm wrong, as I do this for a living. Feel free to sit through multiple 8 hour DOT and PHMSA training classes as well. While 49CFR doesn't say that the OP can't charge only $10 to ship a hazardous material, it does say that he must have the training or have someone that does have the training ship it for him. OP may also not place hazmat materials in a common box for shipment. Box requirements must match the 49CFR Hazmat Table. All hazmat boxes falling to the PGI, II, or III, must have proper external labeling to include placards, proper shipping name (Black powder for small arms) as well as the hazard identification numbers (na0027). The box must have internal packaging as describe by the specific box's test ratings. The OP can take the training course, get a commercial account for UPS of FedEX, and ship these items legally. Of course FX, and UPS will charge the hazmat fee, but that is far better than DOT, and ATF getting involved with the shipping hazmat illegally.

As for the hazmat fee discussion. The DOT, PHMSA, nor BATFE has regulations involving the hazmat fee that fedex/ups charges. I can't speak for them but I'm sure it has something to do with paying for the team they must have at each receiving point to be sure each hazmat package abides by the regulations for shipping. Once they accept a package for delivery they assume the same liability as the shipper. If DOT or PHMSA finds that they have worked outside the regs then FX/UPS is subject to huge fines as well as the possibility to lose their ability to ship hazmat.

With all of that being said it's "only" a $250,000 fine per occurrence.

Last but not least is the fact that UPS and FEDex have a habit of shipping some of their standard ground packages on the empty spaces in cargo planes and passenger planes. Just remember when you package up that hazmatmat box, that all the warnings are for a purpose and that should you decide to throw them into an unmarked box they may well find themselves headed for a passenger plane which will get them scanned and you will be found out.

In order to ship hazmat materials through UPS, a company must have a hazmat license and certified to ship with UPS. Only computer generated forms are allowed in the system to which all shipments must be segregated at time of both picking up and unloading at the hub. All hazmat are handled through the hazmat dept. No hazmat are allowed to be shipped via air, and need to have the correct stickers and labels stating the contents. Powders are a hazmat material as well as primers.
Drivers are only allowed to pick up hazmat from a shipper if they(shipper) has an H next to their name in the Diad board.

Hey leave me out of this

So Aalf,would this be legal as it sounds like you know the laws and regulations, it kinda makes sense but would like your thoughts on it

Sorry mudder, no expert here, I just copied & pasted the replies in the Sticky on shipping powders & primers from PredatorMasters.

I work for UPS and I believe that aalf probably copied my post from PM.
Unless you are a designated and proven Hazardous shipper, you can not ship through UPS.
DRIVERS KNOW ALL of their Hardous shippers...
Its really not worth the trouble if you get caught.

Originally Posted By: https://www.lion.com/Lion-News/August-2019/Final-Rule-Alert-Hazmat-Civil-Penalties-Increased

The new civil penalty amounts are as follows:

The maximum civil penalty for a violation of hazardous materials transportation law (49 U.S.C. 5123(a)(1)) increased from $79,976 to $81,993 per day, per violation.
For a violation that results in death, serious illness, severe injury, or substantial property damage, the civil penalty rose from $186,610 to $191,316.

The minimum penalty for a hazmat training violation went up $12 to $493 per employee, per day. Hazmat training is required for all hazmat employees once every three years (49 CFR 172.704).

Shouldn't be any need to ship them these days. They should get snapped up if you offer them locally. Asking price was $250-$300+ per 1000 at the show this weekend. Don't know if they were selling for that, but it's likely the reason most of the pistol ammo is nearly $1 a round.

But to pile on, it has always been my understanding that the only way I as a regular unpermitted person could ship powder or primers, would be to have them properly contained in cartridge brass then ship from UPS customer service center with the new diamond label on the box.