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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: oldtrapper] #15706791 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by oldtrapper
Trump and the Republicans could shut it right down by just not showing up. I wonder if Trump is not looking forward to presenting his fraud evidence to the public where thee msm has to cover it. ;-{>8
A senate quorum is a majority, or 51. The problem is that they don't count who's there unless someone requests it. That means that business will continue unless there's 1 republican there to request a count. Since he's there, he's counted too. If all 50 Dems are there, plus the Rep, that's a quorum and the trial goes on.


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15706816 01/26/21
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Incitement of insurrection?


Where is the proof?


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: irfubar] #15707074 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by irfubar
denton.
In case you haven't noticed we are in clown world now, anything is possible


An Impeachment is a POLITICAL maneuver to punish someone, in this case it's Donald Trump. It has nothing to do with criminal acts. Well, the democrats are the criminals.

kwg


It's about time you started tolerating my intolerance. For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it.
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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15707121 01/26/21
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How about some deflection and "republicans" file impeachment charges against Zero?


Dave

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: RDW] #15707129 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by RDW
How about some deflection and some "republicans" file impeachment against Zero?

Won’t even come to a floor vote in the house.

Didn’t a House Republican just try this with Biden, dead in water as I recall.


Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Rock Chuck] #15707292 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by oldtrapper
Trump and the Republicans could shut it right down by just not showing up. I wonder if Trump is not looking forward to presenting his fraud evidence to the public where thee msm has to cover it. ;-{>8
A senate quorum is a majority, or 51. The problem is that they don't count who's there unless someone requests it. That means that business will continue unless there's 1 republican there to request a count. Since he's there, he's counted too. If all 50 Dems are there, plus the Rep, that's a quorum and the trial goes on.

The Republicans not showing up is exactly how they will get the votes to convict. Right now they have 48 D's & 2 Independents who vote with the D's
You know Romney will vote to convict, he already did once and he won't miss the chance to do it again. So there is their quorum of 51.
They don't need 2/3rd's of 100 Senators to convict, they need 2/3rd's of everyone who shows up to vote!
Article 1 Sec. 3.
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
If only the D's & the 2 I's & Romney show up, they only need 2/3rd's of 51 or 34 to vote to convict.

Last edited by Paul_M; 01/26/21.

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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Paul_M] #15707305 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Paul_M
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck



The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
If only the D's & the 2 I's & Romney show up, they only need 2/3rd's of 51 or 34 to vote to convict.


That lil' issue keeps popping up.

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Raeford] #15707330 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Raeford
Originally Posted by Paul_M
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck



The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
If only the D's & the 2 I's & Romney show up, they only need 2/3rd's of 51 or 34 to vote to convict.


That lil' issue keeps popping up.


That too! But lets be real, they won't let that stop them if they think they can get the votes for conviction.
Their attitude will be convict first, deal with the other issue later if it comes up.
The Republicans need to be pressured to go, participate, and vote not guilty.


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Paul_M] #15707345 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Paul_M
Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by oldtrapper
Trump and the Republicans could shut it right down by just not showing up. I wonder if Trump is not looking forward to presenting his fraud evidence to the public where thee msm has to cover it. ;-{>8
A senate quorum is a majority, or 51. The problem is that they don't count who's there unless someone requests it. That means that business will continue unless there's 1 republican there to request a count. Since he's there, he's counted too. If all 50 Dems are there, plus the Rep, that's a quorum and the trial goes on.

The Republicans not showing up is exactly how they will get the votes to convict. Right now they have 48 D's & 2 Independents who vote with the D's
You know Romney will vote to convict, he already did once and he won't miss the chance to do it again. So there is their quorum of 51.
They don't need 2/3rd's of 100 Senators to convict, they need 2/3rd's of everyone who shows up to vote!
Article 1 Sec. 3.
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
If only the D's & the 2 I's & Romney show up, they only need 2/3rd's of 51 or 34 to vote to convict.

Perfect way for the Republicans to convict, without having to cast a vote.


Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: steve4102] #15707360 01/26/21
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And that is why they need to be pressured to show up and vote.
If people call and tell them, we know what you are doing by trying to skip the vote, they may feel they need to show up.
If they do skip the vote, they should all be told we won't forget and will do what we can to make sure you get voted out..


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15707551 01/26/21
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Constitution?

The US Constitution gives state legislatures power over elections.
The Pa Constitution puts our elections in our legislature's hands.

The Executive Branch seized control,
The Judicial affirmed it.

And SCOTUS had no issue with all of it.



We don't have no stinikin' constitution!


I'm an American, we kneel to no man.
Only to God!

The Alabama section of Pennsylvania.
Where we cling to our God and Guns.
Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15707693 01/26/21
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What I actually said, not how you rearranged it. Sheeesh ;-{>8


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: steve4102] #15707719 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by oldtrapper
Trump and the Republicans could shut it right down by just not showing up. I wonder if Trump is not looking forward to presenting his fraud evidence to the public where thee msm has to cover it. ;-{>8

This “trial” is not about election fraud, it is about Trump being accused of inciting a riot.

The judge at the trial will not allow any evidence outside the scope of the charges which is basically his speech and the timeline between it and the riot.

Maybe he can squeeze in some evidence that it was all staged by Antifa and the Uniparty, but doubtful that Judge Leary will allow it. He certainly will not allow any talk of voter fraud.




Trump is accused of inciting insurrection by telling a lie to the public about election fraud and telling them to fight it like hell. The election is the root of it all. There is no judge.

BTW, the riot preceded the speech completion.


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15707728 01/26/21
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I think the SCOTUS has already weighed in that this is not right/constitutional:

Constitution says Chief Justice presides when it's the president on trial.
Roberts already said he's not presiding because it's not the president being tried.

so, who is being tried? If not President Trump, then who? It can't be citizen Trump, that's not an impeachment.

This is in a weird area, but I think Roberts tipped his hand on the SC view.

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15707824 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by denton
Not an attorney... may be miles off base here:

The Constitution forbids any "bill of attainder". I had to look that one up. It means that no legislature can punish any person or group of people for something they have done in the past. That function belongs to the courts. The Senate and House cannot punish a private citizen.

Donald Trump is now a private citizen.

How is this so-called impeachment not a bill of attainder?


Denton, Have you been drinking? You ordinarily show a disciplined mind. You cannot legally do anything to anyone for what they might do or think with some very specific exceptions. Therefore, every single criminal action against a citizen must be for something he has done in the past. And, indeed, some criminal actions are not subject to a statute of limitations precisely so that people who commit those crimes can be held fully accountable when they are caught. If a president is impeached and removed from office, then he immediately becomes a citizen again and by your above reasoning would then be free and clear in terms of punishment. Similarly, he cannot be punished until he has been convicted and removed from office. The "punishment" available under impeachment is severely constrained by the constitution in comparison to that available in a criminal proceeding against someone because impeachment is designed as a purely political action.

The law is just blind, not stupid. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. Impeachment cannot punish as in imprisonment. I would however like to see some legal scholarship applied to treason in time of war by a president which would likely be sequenced as an impeachment, removal from office, indictment on treason charges, trial and conviction followed by execution if so ordered.

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Bob_H_in_NH] #15707840 01/26/21
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Sorry Bob, the SC doesn't get a view on impeachment. there is no appeal.

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: denton] #15708132 01/26/21
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Quote
The law is just blind, not stupid. Impeachment is not a criminal proceeding. Impeachment cannot punish as in imprisonment. I would however like to see some legal scholarship applied to treason in time of war by a president which would likely be sequenced as an impeachment, removal from office, indictment on treason charges, trial and conviction followed by execution if so ordered.
The constitution give the senate power to remove him from office and possibly bar him from serving again. That's ALL the senate can do. However, the constitution leaves the convicted person open for civil charges and trial, not by congress but by the civil courts.

It's been held that person convicted after impeachment can't appeal. However, that's not really been tested. If congress violates the constitution, the SCOTUS is supposed to rule their actions invalid and in the past they've done so many times. Why wouldn't that hold here?


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Rock Chuck] #15708671 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
The constitution give the senate power to remove him from office and possibly bar him from serving again. That's ALL the senate can do. However, the constitution leaves the convicted person open for civil charges and trial, not by congress but by the civil courts.

It's been held that person convicted after impeachment can't appeal. However, that's not really been tested. If congress violates the constitution, the SCOTUS is supposed to rule their actions invalid and in the past they've done so many times. Why wouldn't that hold here?


The constitution specifies the procedure for impeachment. Chapter and verse. The constitution only in general and broad terms specifies what may constitute cause for impeachment. Thus, the House of Representatives would have to be incompetent and not have access to a competent attorney in order not follow a pretty simple procedure. The general and very broad definition of impeachable offense makes it next to impossible to wrongly charge the impeached party. So, about the only way for a trial after impeachment to be unconstitutional is for the person presiding over the the trial to engage in or permit blatant unconstitutional action. In the instant trial, Trump was impeached prior to his term expiring for actions committed prior to his leaving office. To not be able to hold the trial deprives the nation of it's ability to hold the president accountable for his ENTIRE term, and deprives the president of his right to answer such charges.(to confront his accuser). Both are long held principles in our legal system.

Undoubtedly the rationale for the Chief Justice presiding at the trial is to assure a trial procedure that passes constitutional muster.

Since an impeachment is a political action by design and not the creation of a law which applies equally to all citizens of the nation, the Supreme Court nor any other court has any say in the trial or it's outcome.

Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: Bob_H_in_NH] #15709360 01/26/21
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Originally Posted by Bob_H_in_NH

I think the SCOTUS has already weighed in that this is not right/constitutional:

Constitution says Chief Justice presides when it's the president on trial.
Roberts already said he's not presiding because it's not the president being tried.

so, who is being tried? If not President Trump, then who? It can't be citizen Trump, that's not an impeachment.

This is in a weird area, but I think Roberts tipped his hand on the SC view.


BINGO


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Re: Thinking About "Impeachment" [Re: kingston] #15710967 01/27/21
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Bingo x2

Dems are wasting time and grandstanding for the show.

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