24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15724444 01/30/21
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,259
G
greydog Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,259
A logger cuts a tree which contains, let's say, 600 board feet. He'll haul that to the mill and they'll say it contains 550 and try to pay him for 500. He'll pay you a portion of the 500 and charge you for fuel costs. In the end, you and the logger will have paid the mill fifty cents a board foot to take the log off your hands. Just kidding. but my father in law had a logging company and my uncle ran a sawmill. The father-in-law claimed the uncle cheated him on the scale. The uncle claimed the father in law was always trying to dump crap wood. The log seller thought both were conspiring to cheat him! At any family gathering, I liked to ask leading questions to stir them up. GD

BP-B2

Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15724449 01/30/21
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,907
F
flintlocke Online Content
Campfire Guide
Online Content
Campfire Guide
F
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,907
Geno, Who'd you work for on the Coast?


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15724492 01/30/21
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 37,354
W
wabigoon Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Online Content
Campfire Oracle
W
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 37,354
I was told by a lumber man, they look the trees over, figure what board feet of lumber they will get, consider the trucking, and all other expences, and bid from there.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15724513 01/30/21
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,734
C
CashisKing Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
C
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,734
FYI, although lumber prices are skyrocketing the logging industry is genuinely hurting. Most of the people that I know that try to log now are completely struggling. I can't explain why it's just what it is.

Maybe the tree should wear a mask to protect the loggers from Coronavirus?


If you spend your life acting the victim, your award will always be a busted nose.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15724564 01/30/21
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,178
T
TrueGrit Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 2,178
Get a few bids at least 5 or hire a forester and have another one check his numbers. Had 200 acres cut 4 years ago and there was a $55k spread between the high and low bid. Loggers are nothing but timber thieves. Sell your wood by the ton and count the truck loads. They'll screw you on the grade sometimes but you usually only get one chance to sell your timber in a lifetime.


Life is good live it while you can.
IC-A

Re: timber pricing [Re: flintlocke] #15724966 01/30/21
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24,603
V
Valsdad Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24,603
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Geno, Who'd you work for on the Coast?

PM coming to you.


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
Re: timber pricing [Re: Valsdad] #15725217 01/30/21
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 40,321
slumlord Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Online Content
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 40,321
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Geno, Who'd you work for on the Coast?

PM coming to you.



Johns Manville, pacific division

Re: timber pricing [Re: slumlord] #15725237 01/30/21
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24,603
V
Valsdad Offline
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24,603
Originally Posted by slumlord
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Geno, Who'd you work for on the Coast?

PM coming to you.



Johns Manville, pacific division

Close, big operation, but very safety conscious unlike the kings of the 'bestos


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15725522 01/31/21
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,760
C
Crow hunter Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
C
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,760
Hire a forester. The timber industry is fraught with crooks and if you don't know their games you will get taken.

The last tract of timber I sold was 88 acres. I have a local forester, Craig, I trust that I use whenever I sell anything. I wanted this tract clearcut so I could replant it so he came in and cruised the timber to determine the volume of timber. His cruise got put in a request for bid packet that he sent out to the timber buyers in the area. Most interested buyers will come cruise it themselves to check the foresters cruise and get an idea of the lay of the tract. I think when Craig sent out the request for bids he gave them two weeks until the bid closed. We received twelve offers ranging from $90,000 to $172,000 on what was a mixed stand of timber. I was happy with the price as the stand was kind of thin, mature properly groomed pine would have brought a lot more. The only thing I had to do with the deal was show up at the bank to get my cashiers check and sign the timber deed. Craig's commission on the deal was 7% which was well worth it, I'd much rather have 93% of $172,000 than 100% of $90,000 which I'd have been lucky to get if I'd tried to sell it on my own.

I've also used Craig several times on timber thinning, he lines up the buyers and negotiates a better price than I could by myself. In that case instead of getting sold as a whole like for the clearcut they'll sell it by the ton and you get paid based upon the weight tickets of the trucks when they take it to the mill. The forester's job is to keep them honest here too, along with making sure they're not tearing up your land and thinning the stand the way it needs to be thinned.

I don't have any timber ready for market right now so I'm not up on the current prices, but it's my understanding that timber prices are low right now even though lumber is sky high in the stores. Covid has messed up everything and it's hard to get workers now. With the juiced up unlimited unemployment and stimulus checks most laborers like you find on logging crews would rather sit at home if they can get paid almost as much for not working.

Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15725662 01/31/21
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 617
S
sherm_61 Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 617
When I logged on the Coast of Washington all logs were scaled by 3rd party scalers independent of the mills and loggers if you can't get that done sell it by the ton and get the weight slips, you can steal more with a pencil than you can with a saw.

Last edited by sherm_61; 01/31/21.
IC-B

Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15725725 01/31/21
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12,980
Oldman03 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12,980
We get a price per ton for logs, chips, or long wood.


Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer

Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"!



Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15725746 01/31/21
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 965
jmh3 Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 965
If you actually have timber to sell, There is a really good forester from somewhere in West Central PA. Somerset County I think. I have his number at work. He bids logging contracts for the mining companies, wind farms, and power companies. I used him on a small piece to do some select cutting. Even after his commission my price was about 25% higher than I got putting it out to bid myself.

Last edited by jmh3; 01/31/21.

------------------------
John
Re: timber pricing [Re: JamesJr] #15725982 01/31/21
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,052
D
Dillonbuck Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,052
Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by reivertom
First question is...is your logger honest. If he is, then you'll find out what the real price is.



^^^^THIS^^^^




And your forested!

Dirty, dirty business, worked in it, family and friends also.

In this area most loggers are not contracted by the mills.
They are a middleman between the owner and mill.

The best deal will be on a share agreement with an honest logger.
He can pay you good money for a good log, without getting screwed on
one that's junk. If he buy the lot, he has to put a buffer in his favor to cover
unexpected bad wood.

Board feet is easily estimated, quality isn't.


Foresters!
These are professional people.
Procede with caution. You have a white collar guy on the edge of a working job.

The common perception is "Hire a forester! He will mark you timber, bid it out. Top $ for you."

Maybe?
He is in the utimate position to screw you.
All he needs to do is short his report a little, downgrade quality a little.
Now your trees are gonna sell cheap, to someone who knows what they are worth. Someone friendly to him. $$

We had at least one of those here. The guys I worked for would cruise any job of his
they were interested in, and often they got the bid because they found better wood than the report.

Often, we were getting bids that included pulpwood, and we didn't even take the pulpwood.
But that's how far off the forester was, we got the high bid, not even figuring part of the value in the bid.


I'm an American, we kneel to no man.
Only to God!

The Alabama section of Pennsylvania.
Where we cling to our God and Guns.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726223 01/31/21
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
Joel/AK Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
We hired a Forester that specializes in deer habitat, which was our number 1 goal. We walked the property and after about a week he showed me multiple plans and bids from various logging companies.

The plan we went with went to 2 different companies. A hardwood and pulp.

The hardwood guys were nuts. Did everything by saw, no fellers, and a skidder. The owner actually took a couple of hours to show me how to properly cut a tree and drop it where you want it to.

Our back 40 was tough. We have a 100yard swamp separating the 2 partials and ridges on both sides are between 25-40ft and it's not gradual incline. The hardwood mill rep was out one day and watched the skidder driver going through the swamp. He just shook his head laughing. He said we were lucky to get this company. He didn't know of any other company who would tackle that swamp.

Pulp mill wouldn't even touch the swamp.


If Obama is the answer, must have been a pretty stupid question.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726248 01/31/21
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
Joel/AK Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
We also negotiated better prices. I got my neighbors on board also. So instead of just an 80 acre parcel, it was well over 200 acres.


If Obama is the answer, must have been a pretty stupid question.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726356 01/31/21
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,707
H
Heym06 Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
H
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,707
Wood logs by the ton, sounds like gravel sales. Timber should be scaled by a licensed scaler. Saw logs to the sawmill and peeler logs to the plywood mill! The peeler mill will pay more for most hardwood species. They will use low priced softwood as core, and overlay with hardwood! Foresters handle timber sales for a living! Check your options. It is nothing to haul logs 150 miles to the mill that pays the highest price! Learn a little about scaling, and taper of log, and its effects on log price. A good logger will separate logs, attempting to receive the most dollars from each load! Insist on scale tickets. Good luck

Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726414 01/31/21
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,099
R
rem141r Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,099
well, as a follow up, this is not for me. its for someone i know. he already made the deal and the operation is commencing. he told me that he is getting nothing because a lot of the wood is dead, small, etc. he just wanted the land cleared. however, there was a lot of good stuff. tall, straight, 30" white pine, white and red oak, smaller hickory, black cherry, sycamore, walnut, etc. plus lots and lots of firewood type stuff. i think he got screwed really bad. they seem to also be leaving the place a friggen mess. tops all over, skidder ripping the schit out of everything, etc. i don't own the land but i have a view of it. me and the other neighbors are not happy but there isn't anything we can do about it. i just wanted to know how fuggen stupid this guy was. he is not a friend to anyone around there so other than the schitty view, no skin off my ass.


My diploma says DD214
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726453 01/31/21
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
Joel/AK Offline
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,101
That sucks. I asked for tops to be left, deer love the cover and after our loggers left, they graded all roads, trails, etc. They even put in a new culvert for me cuz the pulp mill screwed up.

I had it marked but they still piled up 20ft worth of trees on it. They called me one day as I'm driving to a hockey tournament with my daughter that the road was flooding. I told them they better fix it


If Obama is the answer, must have been a pretty stupid question.
Re: timber pricing [Re: rem141r] #15726557 01/31/21
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,099
R
rem141r Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,099
the other thing is that this is river bank and we are concerned about erosion. there is some question as to the ownership of the bank as well. we have deeded access only. my property does not have river front but my friends and neighbors down there do. he had almost all the trees on the bank cut down and so far the tops are still there along with skidder ditches that look like they will erode badly. looks like hell from what i can see from the pics. bad deal all around. some bad blood around there. i try to stay out of it, but like i said, i gotta look at it and my friends all along that stretch have a real mess right in front of them. the only saving grace would be that this guy got skinned on the deal. he deserves it for some of the schit he has pulled over the years.


My diploma says DD214
Re: timber pricing [Re: Crow hunter] #15726704 01/31/21
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,722
T
There_Ya_Go Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
T
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Crow hunter
Hire a forester. The timber industry is fraught with crooks and if you don't know their games you will get taken.

The last tract of timber I sold was 88 acres. I have a local forester, Craig, I trust that I use whenever I sell anything. I wanted this tract clearcut so I could replant it so he came in and cruised the timber to determine the volume of timber. His cruise got put in a request for bid packet that he sent out to the timber buyers in the area. Most interested buyers will come cruise it themselves to check the foresters cruise and get an idea of the lay of the tract. I think when Craig sent out the request for bids he gave them two weeks until the bid closed. We received twelve offers ranging from $90,000 to $172,000 on what was a mixed stand of timber. I was happy with the price as the stand was kind of thin, mature properly groomed pine would have brought a lot more. The only thing I had to do with the deal was show up at the bank to get my cashiers check and sign the timber deed. Craig's commission on the deal was 7% which was well worth it, I'd much rather have 93% of $172,000 than 100% of $90,000 which I'd have been lucky to get if I'd tried to sell it on my own.

I've also used Craig several times on timber thinning, he lines up the buyers and negotiates a better price than I could by myself. In that case instead of getting sold as a whole like for the clearcut they'll sell it by the ton and you get paid based upon the weight tickets of the trucks when they take it to the mill. The forester's job is to keep them honest here too, along with making sure they're not tearing up your land and thinning the stand the way it needs to be thinned.

I don't have any timber ready for market right now so I'm not up on the current prices, but it's my understanding that timber prices are low right now even though lumber is sky high in the stores. Covid has messed up everything and it's hard to get workers now. With the juiced up unlimited unemployment and stimulus checks most laborers like you find on logging crews would rather sit at home if they can get paid almost as much for not working.


This is how it is done throughout the South. I am a "Craig." In my area, the mills themselves don't buy tracts of timber. There are a bunch of independent suppliers who contract with loggers to do the cutting of tracts they buy. The mill gives the supplier a price they will pay per ton for timber delivered to the mill. The supplier works out a rate per ton to pay the logger. What's left is what the supplier can pay the landowner plus a cut for himself, per ton. The supplier cruises the timber and makes his bid to me based on the tons he estimates to be on the tract, the amount of that volume that is sawtimber or pulpwood, pine or hardwood, and the rate he has to pay the logger. Or he might bid based on the tons I have estimated to be on the tract. Either way, he pays in a lump sum up front, then has 2-3 years to cut. I check on the logging to make sure that the terms of the timber deed aren't being violated. That's for clearcuts, thinnings are sold by the ton and require more supervision on my part, to insure both a good residual stand and accurate payments to the landowner.

No doubt it is done differently in other regions and other types of timber. But the best thing someone can do is hire a consulting forester to advise them, both on pricing and overall management of your timber; as well as assuring compliance with regulations concerning water quality.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

RR1b
Who's Online Now
643 registered members (1234, 160user, 1beaver_shooter, 06hunter59, 10gaugemag, 01Foreman400, 78 invisible), 1,663 guests, and 1,038 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3










Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3
(Release build 20190728)
PHP: 7.3.28 Page Time: 0.054s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8821 MB (Peak: 1.0489 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2021-05-11 16:29:06 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS