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Originally Posted by FWP

Regarding the yardage. This is used in SE PA and there are not too many places where you'll get a 200 yard shot. BUT do some research on the 220. Two hundred yards is not out of the question for the 220 with a slug like the AccuTip.


"Not out of the question," there's a ringing endorsement.



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I grew up in central NY when it was shotgun only. Started with a 20 gauge Ithica Deerslayer . killed my first 56 deer with shotguns. NY went to rifles and so did I. Rifles are absolutely better at all ranges. The best thing about starting with shotguns is you learn how important proper form and technique in shooting are. A side benefit is recoil tolerance. I am now a 35 caliber junky with a Mannlicher affliction. Life is a strange and wonderful journey.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by haverluk
I live and hunt in Price William County, VA. During the modern season we can use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or archery tackle. No rifles larger than .22 for hunting in the county. So while not designated as "shotgun only"; that is what the option is.

I bow hunt most all of the open season but my 20ga slug gun gets to hunt sometimes too...


They definitely don’t make it easy to understand. I’d be tickled with the straight wall cartridges myself.

It’s not real nice for the youth hunters either. A younger hunter doesn’t need to be subjected to a shotgun slugs recoil.


I am an avid handgun hunter as well. Another issue I have is the regs to not specifically authorize the use of handguns in the county. Some of the local wardens I have queried to me that it was not authorized The other local warden to me that if it was not forbidden in the regs than it was OK. Richmond said it was up to the local authorities. Less range and power than a muzzleloader or a slug gun... Should be good. I think straight walls should be included too.They give us a generous season but tie our hands with the tooling. I asked for both authorizations when the state website asked for input.


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.30-30, always. Even though I live in a shotgun zone (recently changed to follow the straight wall craze), I never hunt here except occasionally during the primitive weapons season (notice I didn't say "muzzle loader season"- inlines make a mockery of the original intent of that, but is a discussion for another day). I journey a couple hours to haunt "the deer woods" and wouldn't think of taking a shotgun, no matter how efficient they and their ammunition have become. Old habits and attitudes die hard, I suppose. Besides, I like the .30-30 a lot, especially if in platforms other than M94's and 336's.

The .30-30 is extremely versatile in terms of feeding - I load everything from 100 grain cast lead plinkers at pistol velocity up to 190 grain flat nosed cast lead stompers that exceed factory jacketed performance, and everything in between including some jacketed stuff. .30-30 accuracy off the bench is top notch if employed in the proper platform. And it'll even kill a deer. A 20 gauge with rifled barrel pales in comparison in those regards which I guess is the real reason I would opt for the .30-30 over it.


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One time out in the Bush, I took a moose with a 12 gauge, slug, single bead, smooth bore barrel. It's what I had, rifles being 300 miles away. At 35 yards it worked perfectly. That doesn't mean it is more effective, much less preferred over rifle.

And no, beyond 100 yards or so, a shotgun is never "better" or even equal over a rifle for big game, or even inside that range,unless required.


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I know you say you don't like recoil but a 20ga shotgun is on the higher end of 'rifle' recoil at around 20-25lbs/ft.
https://chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

A 30-06 is going to be around 20lbs/ft of recoil, 308 around 16-18lb/ft, and 30-30 around 10-12lb/ft.
https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Another consideration is that 30WCF rifles tend to be predominantly lever action, (more expensive, and generally less accurate than a bolt gun though how much that matters at 100 is debatable).
A savage 10/110 (not even the axis series) could be found with a decent scope combo (Apex hunter package I believe) for around the same price. And any of the above calibers would offer more versatility, but possibly less cool factor, of the lever 30-30.


If you really want to stay that low on recoil but want the capability of a full rifle cartridge the 7mm-08 is a great choice. Basically a necked down 308 to 7mm, achieves flatter trajectory, and minimal difference in game effectiveness and recoils not much more than the 30WCF, and notably less than even the 308. Factory ammo is generally very good in normal times.

We called them "girl guns" or "women's guns" around here, not as a derogatory term, but because they were very well suited to recoil sensitive individuals, those of smaller stature, or just those that didn't want 308, and offered fantastic ballistics with almost no compromise.

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Originally Posted by haverluk
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by haverluk
I live and hunt in Price William County, VA. During the modern season we can use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or archery tackle. No rifles larger than .22 for hunting in the county. So while not designated as "shotgun only"; that is what the option is.

I bow hunt most all of the open season but my 20ga slug gun gets to hunt sometimes too...


They definitely don’t make it easy to understand. I’d be tickled with the straight wall cartridges myself.

It’s not real nice for the youth hunters either. A younger hunter doesn’t need to be subjected to a shotgun slugs recoil.


I am an avid handgun hunter as well. Another issue I have is the regs to not specifically authorize the use of handguns in the county. Some of the local wardens I have queried to me that it was not authorized The other local warden to me that if it was not forbidden in the regs than it was OK. Richmond said it was up to the local authorities. Less range and power than a muzzleloader or a slug gun... Should be good. I think straight walls should be included too.They give us a generous season but tie our hands with the tooling. I asked for both authorizations when the state website asked for input.

Its not up to the local game warden or official to decide whats legal or not. They dont have that authority. The authority lies within the state game commission and the regulations put forth and published. The local fish cop doesnt get to interpet or dicatate laws and methods of taking game or hunting. Go by the regulations.

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Originally Posted by Theoldpinecricker
Originally Posted by haverluk
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by haverluk
I live and hunt in Price William County, VA. During the modern season we can use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or archery tackle. No rifles larger than .22 for hunting in the county. So while not designated as "shotgun only"; that is what the option is.

I bow hunt most all of the open season but my 20ga slug gun gets to hunt sometimes too...


They definitely don’t make it easy to understand. I’d be tickled with the straight wall cartridges myself.

It’s not real nice for the youth hunters either. A younger hunter doesn’t need to be subjected to a shotgun slugs recoil.


I am an avid handgun hunter as well. Another issue I have is the regs to not specifically authorize the use of handguns in the county. Some of the local wardens I have queried to me that it was not authorized The other local warden to me that if it was not forbidden in the regs than it was OK. Richmond said it was up to the local authorities. Less range and power than a muzzleloader or a slug gun... Should be good. I think straight walls should be included too.They give us a generous season but tie our hands with the tooling. I asked for both authorizations when the state website asked for input.

Its not up to the local game warden or official to decide whats legal or not. They dont have that authority. The authority lies within the state game commission and the regulations put forth and published. The local fish cop doesnt get to interpet or dicatate laws and methods of taking game or hunting. Go by the regulations.



While I understand what you are saying and agree with you. I was not able to escalate it that high. I called the state office and posed the question. They directed me to talk to my local wardens. Three of them gave me two different answers because the regulations to no make specific mention of the use of handguns. I have written a letter to the state game office and requested an official response.


Semper Fi



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Originally Posted by haverluk
Originally Posted by Theoldpinecricker
Originally Posted by haverluk
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by haverluk
I live and hunt in Price William County, VA. During the modern season we can use shotguns, muzzleloaders, or archery tackle. No rifles larger than .22 for hunting in the county. So while not designated as "shotgun only"; that is what the option is.

I bow hunt most all of the open season but my 20ga slug gun gets to hunt sometimes too...


They definitely don’t make it easy to understand. I’d be tickled with the straight wall cartridges myself.

It’s not real nice for the youth hunters either. A younger hunter doesn’t need to be subjected to a shotgun slugs recoil.


I am an avid handgun hunter as well. Another issue I have is the regs to not specifically authorize the use of handguns in the county. Some of the local wardens I have queried to me that it was not authorized The other local warden to me that if it was not forbidden in the regs than it was OK. Richmond said it was up to the local authorities. Less range and power than a muzzleloader or a slug gun... Should be good. I think straight walls should be included too.They give us a generous season but tie our hands with the tooling. I asked for both authorizations when the state website asked for input.

Its not up to the local game warden or official to decide whats legal or not. They dont have that authority. The authority lies within the state game commission and the regulations put forth and published. The local fish cop doesnt get to interpet or dicatate laws and methods of taking game or hunting. Go by the regulations.



While I understand what you are saying and agree with you. I was not able to escalate it that high. I called the state office and posed the question. They directed me to talk to my local wardens. Three of them gave me two different answers because the regulations to no make specific mention of the use of handguns. I have written a letter to the state game office and requested an official response.


I hear you. Their regulations are all over the map and like you mentioned, I’ve asked wardens the same questions and gotten different answers a few times myself.


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Originally Posted by Jim585
Comparing a 30-30 to a rifled barrel 20 gauge.
Which is better for primarily deer hunting & target shooting?
I already have the 20 gauge. Do I really need a 30-30?


I'd choose the 30-30 every time unless prohibited by local laws.

Do you "need" a 30-30? Only you can determine that.

Although I have a lot of other options, my 30-30 is going nowhere.


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No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.

A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Why is the 20 GA compared to the 30-30? It limits you.

If you don't have a 30-30, then consider a 308 Win, 6.5 CM, 270 Win, or 30-06. I love my Marlin 336a 30-30, but I would rather have a good 308 Win (6.5 Cm, 270 Win or 30-06) than a 30-30...just more range and more versatile.


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A 20 gauge with a rifled barrel and a scope with good ammo is a rock solid 150 yard deer rig. A 30-30 is cheaper to feed, but for the price of a new rifle, you could buy a bunch of sabot slugs.

Ron


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Can't be serious question.
Question can't be serious.


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I do appreciate all the responses. Gives me food for thought.
I am a shotgun shooter & don’t know much about rifles. (Isn’t it obvious).
My 20ga Ithaca 37 seems to do what I need: IC bird bbl for grouse/woodcock & skeet/sporting clays. Rifled Deerslayer bbl for deer.
Saw an attractively priced 30-30 Savage 340 at my LGS, which generated my initial post. (of course it is gone now).
Again I do appreciate all of you taking the time to give me your thoughts. -Jim

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