Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting bullet caliber vs. target distance

I've been rolling this around in my head since before last deer season. I figure I'll ask y'all.

I know the fat-and-slow vs small-and-fast argument is legendary. I don't mean to spin that one up again. What I do mean to do is start a discussion regarding bullet caliber and its performance at relatively short distances. I may be packing angels on a head of pin, but let's see.

First off, let me say that for close-in treestand work, I've seen no better performance than either a REM 12 GA Slugger or a 180 grain REM PSPCL out of a 30-06. I don't lob either anymore at whitetails, but when you're talking inside 20 yards. . . Yikes!

I had inherited my buddy's Ruger Model 44 Carbine and managed to take a buck with it, when the unthinkable happened. The receiver crumbled last summer as I was sighting it in for the coming season. It's a long story. It's not repairable. It's been discussed. The reason I bring it up, was that it did a decent job on the buck. I was impressed with it as a short-range treestand gun.

I was pressed for time to fill the hole in my rack, and a 7mm-08 TC Compass came up at the right price, and . . . WAIT! Shaman, are you saying you replaced a 44 Mag with a 7mm-08?

Well, yes. The idea was that I'd shoot the Compass at short distances this past season and then stretch it out to 200 yards over the next year. It poleaxed a doe at 120 yards with a 139 grain Hornady. No muss, no fuss, no belts, no pins, no recoil.

So here is my issue: I have had my head wrapped up in the idea that when the distance is short, I prefer a heavier bullet that dumps a lot of energy right then and now. When there is some distance involved-- say out past 150 yards, I tend to use things like a 30-06 that have a usable range way past what I'm shooting.

Since December, I've been pondering whether this is a reasonable distinction. Granted, there are quite a few deer rounds out there that start flagging out past 80 yards. My Remmie Sluggers would drop like a rock past that. The 44 Mag rounds I shot were good at 100, but would have required extra elevation to reach 120 yards. However, I creamed a doe with that 7mm bullet and all I had to do was call for the truck. I'm beginning to think I've been looking at this all wrong. Maybe I should forget the big-and-slow approach at short range.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a centerfire cartridge above .22 that WON'T kill cleanly at reasonable ranges. Including short ranges. Even several centerfire .22s apparently do fine, too. And I've used the (scoped) .44 handgun on whitetail out to about 120 yards, does fine.

Your 180s have demonstrated they do fine. I'd bet 150s or even 130s would do equally fine. The 139-grain 7mm load has been doing fine for more than a hundred years, even if the case was slightly longer than 51mm when that trend started.

Try this approach: identify the rifle that appeals to you the most. Get one, chambered for any cartridge you like. Use it.



-Chris

Anticipating a 300 yard shot at a muley, I had loaded my 25-06 with 100 gr Barnes TSX bullets at 3340 fps...

Turns out I took the 4x4 buck with one shot through the heart at about 20 yards... Bullet worked well. Made a mess out of the buck's heart and dropped him dead, instantly. A couple of years later (with a different bullet, a 115 gr Berger VLD) I dropped another mule deer right at 400 yards. Again, it was instant lights-out.

Ya, the little bullets, smallish caliber cartridges can work well near or far. I've shot deer with all sorts of cartridges from the 223 up to the 45-70 and a 50 cal traditional muzzle loader. They all worked well if I shot well.

I think it's more where they're hit, than what they're hit with.

Regards, Guy

Sounds as you have a lot of "Tools". Use each as required.

You`re over-thinking this.

Was a fella named Billy Dixon that figured that big and slow was good out to near 1 mile.

Another fella I know named Patterson like small and fast up close.

In both cases the Indian Chief and the elephant dropped dead on the spot. I suspect it's not so much what you hit them with, but rather where you hit them.

I suspect you're right. It's one of those itches that just has to be scratched.

I should have mentioned...

The one time I wasn't particularly impressed with bullet performance was with the .44 mag handgun at about 30 yards. I'd put up some hard cast 320-grain cast bullet loads, and the bullets had a fairly wide meplat. Penciled through that whitetail, he ran off like nothing happened. Didn't go far, actually, since I'd also broken the off-side shoulder too... but that wasn't a "DRT" outcome and I had to add a finishing shot... and the whole episode led me back to just using standard 240-grain JHPs for thin, soft-skinned critters like whitetail.

The way it played out wasn't ALL a factor if weight, of course; bullet construction and speed were also culprits... but still...

-Chris

You've gotta be dry jackin me!!🤣🤣

As mentioned above. 30 caliber monolithic 130 grain TTSX at 3K+ fps will do it all. Does not blow up at 20 yards. Shoots flat and accurate. Will travel lengthwise though a doe at 250 yards.

Actually kinda boring.

Well, in the spirit of all things jacked....
Small and not too far away.



Wish I had a pic of the deer I recovered this from, but it exploded into a red mist after the shot. Pure lead, paper patched w/MV ~1600 fps, 80 yards +/-


Last but not least, L-R
.22 bullet, 40 grains
.30 and 180 gr
.45 and 530 gr
.50 and 800 gr
.56 and 900 gr


They may be challenging to some in regards to placement, but inclined to think they will do the job if the shooter does his part. For example, the holes in this target was shot with a .45-70 using a tang sight. How far can I go if I put a scope on it? MV ballpark 1350 fps, 530 grains. I'll bet Quigley knows.

WTH do you shoot with those 900 grain Hindenburgs?

Those are plinking loads for a slug gun. Away from the computer at present, will post a pic later. The proper bullet for the gun is a 2 piece swaged bullet of 1,300 gr., so pretty much whatever you want out to 1,000 yds or so. Charge is ballpark 250-300 gr of Lord Black. It works up close as well.

Is there anything wrong with a larger diameter bullet (say .338 and up), of moderate to heavy weight, starting out at 2900 fps or greater? Then.....you have the best of both worlds! memtb

I haven’t killed as many medium game animals as a lot of people on the Campfire.
But I have killed deer and antelope from 20 to 330 yards with 270, 7x57, 30-06, and 45-70. They all died. Have never recovered a bullet.
I have to agree with Ranger4444, “ Try this approach: identify the rifle that appeals to you the most. Get one, chambered for any cartridge you like. Use it.”
It is more about the bullet and the placement. I could get by with my favorite the 7x57, but what fun would that be.

The short answer is no, you can use the 180 CL, for either. For several decades I hunted with a 300 WM, with the 180 Partition (one of the greatest hunting bullets ever made), the distances were under 50 yards several times and out past 500 a couple of times. I am a simple man, if it works, I don't change it experiment with it or alter it in any way. I love the old acronym KISS, "keep it simple stupid" . Just my 02

Try this approach: identify the rifle that appeals to you the most. Get one, chambered for any cartridge you like. Use it.


Been working for decades. Nice to have something pretty to look at while you’re waiting.

The one in the back.