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Originally Posted by gunner500
LOL, I'd run with it, you got it handled, plus saving those near unobtainum components, you know, next steak house visit, i'll bring my 416 Rigby I torched the throat in, it's the only rifle I have that has whisker burns on the side of the stock and my right pinky finger wore the blue off the face of the steel grip cap, I shot the chit out of that thing getting ready for Africa, read to many mage about it I guess. grin

Am going back to the Limpopo this fall, come hell or high water.

Didn't that .416 bore suddenly become a 505 Gibbs?

You, being the only dude I know who actually shot out a big rifle.

Another friend (not the two discussed) went ele hunting in Africa, bought a Merkel .500 NE. I helped him with loading the 570 gr. bullets. I got to shoot it. Big push, actually not as nasty as I thought it would be. I'd rather shoot it than a light Wby 340 or such. Those slap you, as you well know. I've had a.340 Wby and a 338 Win, both went down the road, still have a .338-06.

The Gibbs seems more potent than the .500 NE, 570 gr. at 2,150 fps, Where as the Gibbs is more like 525 gr. at 2,300 fps. That's a considerable difference.

Only a hoss like you would shoot out a Rigby and rebore it to a Gibbs. Bet you haven't shot it out,,,Yet...

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Graf and sons are slow. I ordered 400 gr. Partitions and 400 gr. Breakaway Solids on 2-18-21. I never got the order, so I checked on line. Their web site shows the order as not shipped. I talked to customer service. They are currently shipping Feb 5th orders, mine should arrive in a couple of weeks. At least I was assured their last box of Breakaway Solids were mine. Good thing I'm not in a hurry or in a bind.

I have some brass and 400 gr. SAF's headed this way from a Fire friend.

But, time is gonna be getting short, which gives more reason to just duplicate Swift factory ammo, shoot'em at 50 yds off the tall bench, not worry about chrono, adjust 400 gr. POI from 350 gr. Speer POI, load ammo for Africa. At 50 yds, I'm guessing POI won't be that far off.

Gun is wearing a Trijicon TR-24 1-4x24 glass with triangle reticle. I was able to shoot some pretty good groups at a hundred, although that reticle wouldn't be my first choice for precise shooting. It should work well on a buff at buff ranges. Here's a link discussing the build and glass selection.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13695130/1

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Dirtfarmer,
Based on what you said, yeah, I'd just move forward with the recommended loads and see if they are minute of buff! As long as they were, I'd leave it right there and let your buddy go to Africa. Even the softs and solids shooting to the same POI, I wouldn't worry too much about that. You're typically not threading the needle on a buffalo, especially on the follow-up with the solid.

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Originally Posted by test1328
Dirtfarmer,
Based on what you said, yeah, I'd just move forward with the recommended loads and see if they are minute of buff! As long as they were, I'd leave it right there and let your buddy go to Africa. Even the softs and solids shooting to the same POI, I wouldn't worry too much about that. You're typically not threading the needle on a buffalo, especially on the follow-up with the solid.

Thanks for all the help.

I'm about where you are and will put something together without a lot of shooting. And, if 400 Gr. Swift A-Frame ammo shoots around 2,350 fps or so, ammo assembled in my shop, using their data, should be close enough.

IIRC, my .350 gr. Speer load was 77 gr. of 4064. I'll pull the 350 gr. Speers, tweak the powder charge and seat the 400's. A Lee Factory crimp die should seal the deal.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by gunner500
LOL, I'd run with it, you got it handled, plus saving those near unobtainum components, you know, next steak house visit, i'll bring my 416 Rigby I torched the throat in, it's the only rifle I have that has whisker burns on the side of the stock and my right pinky finger wore the blue off the face of the steel grip cap, I shot the chit out of that thing getting ready for Africa, read to many mage about it I guess. grin

Am going back to the Limpopo this fall, come hell or high water.

Didn't that .416 bore suddenly become a 505 Gibbs?

You, being the only dude I know who actually shot out a big rifle.

Another friend (not the two discussed) went ele hunting in Africa, bought a Merkel .500 NE. I helped him with loading the 570 gr. bullets. I got to shoot it. Big push, actually not as nasty as I thought it would be. I'd rather shoot it than a light Wby 340 or such. Those slap you, as you well know. I've had a.340 Wby and a 338 Win, both went down the road, still have a .338-06.

The Gibbs seems more potent than the .500 NE, 570 gr. at 2,150 fps, Where as the Gibbs is more like 525 gr. at 2,300 fps. That's a considerable difference.

Only a hoss like you would shoot out a Rigby and rebore it to a Gibbs. Bet you haven't shot it out,,,Yet...

DF


grin, that it did Sir, my 10lb 500 Nitro with both 570gr Barnes's running at 2160 ish isn't too bad, it's built on a merkel boxlock action, iirc the original 505 Gibbs loads with 525/535's at 22-2300 fps were a handful, my loads with both 600gr Woodleighs at 2450 is indeed a hellbender, those were a few test loads, the rest are loaded to a very manageable but still potent 2150 with the 600's, I need to get that thing to Africa too, I don't doubt the Woodleighs.

No Sir, I haven't shot it out, wouldn't survive the trying! cool


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by gunner500
LOL, I'd run with it, you got it handled, plus saving those near unobtainum components, you know, next steak house visit, i'll bring my 416 Rigby I torched the throat in, it's the only rifle I have that has whisker burns on the side of the stock and my right pinky finger wore the blue off the face of the steel grip cap, I shot the chit out of that thing getting ready for Africa, read to many mage about it I guess. grin

Am going back to the Limpopo this fall, come hell or high water.

Didn't that .416 bore suddenly become a 505 Gibbs?

You, being the only dude I know who actually shot out a big rifle.

Another friend (not the two discussed) went ele hunting in Africa, bought a Merkel .500 NE. I helped him with loading the 570 gr. bullets. I got to shoot it. Big push, actually not as nasty as I thought it would be. I'd rather shoot it than a light Wby 340 or such. Those slap you, as you well know. I've had a.340 Wby and a 338 Win, both went down the road, still have a .338-06.

The Gibbs seems more potent than the .500 NE, 570 gr. at 2,150 fps, Where as the Gibbs is more like 525 gr. at 2,300 fps. That's a considerable difference.

Only a hoss like you would shoot out a Rigby and rebore it to a Gibbs. Bet you haven't shot it out,,,Yet...

DF


grin, that it did Sir, my 10lb 500 Nitro with both 570gr Barnes's running at 2160 ish isn't too bad, it's built on a merkel boxlock action, iirc the original 505 Gibbs loads with 525/535's at 22-2300 fps were a handful, my loads with both 600gr Woodleighs at 2450 is indeed a hellbender, those were a few test loads, the rest are loaded to a very manageable but still potent 2150 with the 600's, I need to get that thing to Africa too, I don't doubt the Woodleighs.

No Sir, I haven't shot it out, wouldn't survive the trying! cool

Wow!

600 gr. at 2.450 fps. Now, that's a gunner load. I know you guys have some monster 'dillers there in SE OK, but those 600's gotta over penetrate.... grin

Elk in NM doesn't throw that much lead at his jackwabbits... Well, maybe close...

I could see why you'd want to drop it to 2,150 fps and I'm sure that load doesn't rattle your fillings quite as bad.

BTW, what's your favorite .505 Gibbs powder and how much?

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laugh, Yes, quite the handful loaded all the way up, i'll leave that vermin eradication to our Buddy Elk, he likes it, 2150 is GTG, recoil wise and letting the big soft point do it's job, don't have my load book handy, but, H-4831 will go from mild to wild.


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DF,

What Bill Hober says about the A-Frame and Break-Away is basically what I experienced when working up loads with 300-grainers n my .375 H&H. (Used it for testing because that's the caliber/weight of Break-Aways they had on hand.) They landed within about two inches of each other at 100 yards with the same powder charge, but came together when adding a little more powder to the Break-Away load.

Graf's has indeed been a little slow lately, due to bazillions of orders. But so far they've gotten me everything I've ordered--and their customer service has even called me to make sure about details. They're still among the best around.

Must also mention that I am often a little puzzled when hunters suggest using the load that shoots most-accurately on animals the size of Cape buffalo. A few years ago my friend D'Arcy Echols, the well-known custom gunsmith from Utah, told me one of his customers demanded a .458 Lott that would shoot "both softs and solids into a half-inch at 100 yards." D'Arcy then asked me, "Just how --------- small buffalo and elephants these days?"


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My buddy who shot the Zim buff pictured, was pushing that 400 TSX out of his Rigby with 100 gr. H-4831 at around 2,450 fps or so.

In the .416 Remington, with 75 gr. 4064 and a 400 A-Frame, speed is in the 2,350-2,375 fps range. 78 gr. will push it to 2,400+ (Swift data).

But, I'm sticking with 75 gr for the A-Frame, 77 gr. for the solid, both Swift factory loads.

So with burning that extra powder and with the added gun weight, the Rigby doesn't offer that much over the Remington, A buff will never know the difference. Packing them both for miles in that hot, dry terrain, the hunter will for sure know the difference. As posted before, bud's Zim PH carried a push feed M-70 in .416 Rem. He liked the big RSM, just said it was too heavy. The 400 TSX is the PH's fav bullet for buff. Another Zim buff hunter remarked that his PH was also a 400 TSX advocate. I guess some of those PH's got past alternating softs and solids... I would think there may be some regioal differences in ordinance among PH's.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
DF,

What Bill Hober says about the A-Frame and Break-Away is basically what I experienced when working up loads with 300-grainers n my .375 H&H. (Used it for testing because that's the caliber/weight of Break-Aways they had on hand.) They landed within about two inches of each other at 100 yards with the same powder charge, but came together when adding a little more powder to the Break-Away load.

Graf's has indeed been a little slow lately, due to bazillions of orders. But so far they've gotten me everything I've ordered--and their customer service has even called me to make sure about details. They're still among the best around.

Must also mention that I am often a little puzzled when hunters suggest using the load that shoots most-accurately on animals the size of Cape buffalo. A few years ago my friend D'Arcy Echols, the well-known custom gunsmith from Utah, told me one of his customers demanded a .458 Lott that would shoot "both softs and solids into a half-inch at 100 yards." D'Arcy then asked me, "Just how --------- small buffalo and elephants these days?"

Now, that's a good one... grin

D'Arcy had him...

On the accuracy part, my bud is a Partition fan, used A-Frames in his 338 Win Mag in AK, so he's familiar with them. If I can show him one or the other shoots better, I think he'll be satisfied to use that bullet. So, it may be more Psych Ops than Ballistics.... wink

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Graf order arrived today, 400 gr Swift Breakaway solids and 400 gr Partitions.

So now we’re ready to get serious. Sure glad to finally have those components in hand. I’m grateful that Graf produced, had the items. And I’m grateful to the Fire contributor who sold us Rem brass and 400 gr. A-Frames. These components are otherwise unobtainable.

Will report.

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DF,
Good to hear everything showed up!! Definitely interest in the range report.


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Originally Posted by Heeler
DF,
Good to hear everything showed up!! Definitely interest in the range report.

Thank you for all your help.

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I am going to be interested in hearing your impressions on shooting the 416. As I have shared, mine is very easy to shoot for a big bore.


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Originally Posted by CRS
I am going to be interested in hearing your impressions on shooting the 416. As I have shared, mine is very easy to shoot for a big bore.

I’ve shot it with 350’s, not that bad. Don’t think 400’s are gonna be that different. I’ve shot .458 Win and 500 NE, neither of which were all that bad. Big push, especially the 500, but all very controllable.

Standing bench is the way to go with big guns, IMO. And I’m not gonna chrono these, just duplicate Swift ammo and shoot. 400’s at 2,350-2,375 fps will do what needs doing. As noted earlier, Bill Hober gave me Swift’s factory load data and I can duplicate it.

Man, am I blessed to have these components. Wow. Without Campfire connections, my bud would be up a creek. And don’t ya know, I’m letting him know. And my wife wonders why I spend time on the Fire.

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Just noticed that Nosler’s accuracy load with 400’s in the .416 Rem is with 4064.

Go figure. Sorta goes with Bill Hober using 4064.

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I saw 2 cape buffalo once at a water tank while hunting impala in South Africa so I am totally qualified to give an opinion here.

My opinion is that this topic is interesting, as a true, herd tracking cape buffalo hunt is the only thing that interests me in Africa anymore. Thanks for the imformative thread. I am listening.



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I’m very late to this conversation, but here is the load I shoot in my .416 Hoffman; it is only very slightly larger than the Remington case, so could be a good starting point. You should reduce powder by a couple grains to start.

In my Hoffman, I shoot 81.0 grains of RL-15, pushing a 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw at 2,510. I was given that load by Jack Carter, who founded Trophy Bonded Bullets. He shot a Hoffman also, and as he put it “A 400 grain Bearclaw at 2,500 is one hell of a buffalo killing load”. He was right, it is.

I’m headed to Tanzania in October with 3 buffalo on license. I’m not sure which Bullets I’ll be shooting as finding any quality 400 grain softs is impossible at this time. Thankfully, we now have a better selection of bullets than we did 33 years ago when I got that load. I’ll go with Nosler, Swifts, Cutting Edge, Barnes or Trophy Bonded, whatever I can get my hands on. I’ve got some 350 grain TTSX’s, but my PH prefers I shoot 400’s.

On a related note, I saw where someone mentioned having trouble finding 416 Remington brass. You can get it directly from Pete at Quality Cartridge. I just bought 100 rounds of new 416 Hoffman brass from him, which should last my lifetime. He also carries 416 Remington brass in stock. (301) 373-3719.

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One more thing...

Instead of alternating softs and solids, my PH - Alan Vincent, suggests I shoot either a 400 grain Swift or Nosler, with TSX’s in the magazine instead of solids. He figures the TSX will penetrate nearly as well as a solid, while doing more damage along the way. He wants a Swift A-Frame or Nosler Partition first to avoid an exit with other buffalo around the target.

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I have a box of swift A-frame 350gr. .416 I will never use.


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